OT: Is KC the new Patriots

[Scoe]

You know it’s not 1-on-1, right?

Correct but Eli is 2-0 vs Brady that’s a fact right.

 

[uconngb]

You're never going to get any sort of subjective take from a Patriots fan on this one. They're the most insecure fan base in all the 4 major sports and how dare we even think Mahomes could be as good as Brady?

Mahomes just beat a white hot Josh Allen in Buffalo, the MVP of the 1 seed Ravens in Baltimore and the overall 1 seed in the West in the Super Bowl. His receivers were Marquez Valdez-Scantling, Rashee Rice, Justin Watson and Mecole Hardman. Find me a run, on the road and neutral sites with less talent at WR that Brady went on?

This is hilarious. Mahomes beat the MVP??? I guess he was the one that came up w 3 TOs against Lamar and held that vaunted offense to 10 points. You are the one that can’t be objective. Other than having Moss for a couple years, Brady’s receivers were well below average. Look at the first Super Bowl: Troy Brown was the best they had.

Mahomes definitely has more physical gifts. He may pass Brady. If he does, he’ll get his due. But suggesting Brady had a steady stream of all pros catching from him and Mahomes has been throwing to a bunch of invalids is so completely biased it’s embarrassing for you. And don’t trot out Gronk cuz Kelce just set the all time record for receptions in the post season, passing Jerry Rice…..Or did that guy suck too??

The lengths you will go to to get on your anti- Patriot soapbox. If Mahomes passes Brady, gif bless and good for him. I’ll be able to take it. If he doesn’t, will you???

 

[uconngb]

Mahomes is more gifted and not a cheater

You must hate Calhoun and UConn then, because they both cheated as badly as Brady did

 

[uconngb]

Brady was 0-3 in the playoffs against Peyton on the road.

And I think 4-0 or 5-0 vs him at home. What’s your point??

 

[superjohn]

You must hate Calhoun and UConn then, because they both cheated as badly as Brady did

 

[NC_Uconn_Fan]

My brother is a Pats fan, and KC winning again has certainly bothered him. I find it amusing. You guys had your run and now it's over. It happens.

 

[Deepster]

And I think 4-0 or 5-0 vs him at home. What’s your point??

I said Brady never went through a gauntlet of qbs and teams on the road like Mahomes just did.

The poster than pointed out he had great success against Peyton Manning who was better than Allen and Jackson to which I corrected him (per my original statement) that Brady was 0-3 on the road against Manning in the postseason.

 

[DRBackup]

Sorry, my message didn't go through right, tried editing and ran out of time. I meant to ask, with KC's offense, and defense, and coaching, and Mahomes at QB, will KC overtake the Patriot's own era of excellence? They won it all in 2020, 2023 and 2024, and speaking of Mahomes, he is only 28. A lot of people think Tom Brady is the greatest QB ever, but Patrick Mahomes compares favorably against in some ways, especially with his ability to scramble and run for yards when needed.

Indeed. And I gotta wonder if / when someone gives Spagnola another shot at head coach. And to be fair, as other people pointed out, if not for some bad mistakes by the 49ers, even Mahomes miracles wouldn't have been enough

 

[Scoe]

It is truly astonishing how badly Shannahan has choked in the superbowl 3 times. Analytics have ruined the game, the problem with analytics is it takes away common sense, and situational awareness. It’s not hindsight either everyone that knows football was yelling for the Niners to run the ball you need to shorten the game especially in the 2nd half while you had Mahomes head in a vice grip.

Credit the Chiefs they made the half time adjustments. Everyone and their mother knew the Chiefs were coming back despite the Niners dominating the game physically.

Mahomes is like MJ in the 90s, Brady is like a modern day Russell. Will be interesting to see how Mahomes keeps this up, I would imagine they get a big time wr who will go ring chasing. I still put Tony Gonzalez ahead of Kelce btw just my opinion, QBs are judged by rings anyways.

TJ Houshmanzadeh nails it here.

 

[Travelman6]

You must hate Calhoun and UConn then, because they both cheated

No, no they didn't.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You either have 0 clue about Rashee Rice or are just so blinded by the past,

Do you know the name Reche Caldwell?

In the same way I'm a UConn fan and Kansas fan 2nd, I'm a Patriots fan and Chiefs fan 2nd. I was rooting for the Chiefs. I like Mahomes. I just thought the whole "his WR stink" was, while true (until Rice emerged about mid-season) the same thing that was true for the Patriots for many seasons. They never won a SB with Moss. Edelman became a great slot guy over time. Both those Patriots teams and this Chiefs team won with defense.

The Chiefs lost to Tampa, not because Tom was better than Pat, but because the Bucs utterly dominated the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. It was as dominant a performance as I've seen. So what did KC do? They traded Hill. The beefed up the offensive line, including bringing in Thuney from the Pats (who was hurt and out this time). They rebuilt the defense, including getting McDuffie (who was the best player in this Super Bowl) with the draft haul.

 

[MrP]

Thats why Brady is better - Mahomes has a built-in advantage - according to you

He’s better because he’s worse?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I said Brady never went through a gauntlet of qbs and teams on the road like Mahomes just did.

The poster than pointed out he had great success against Peyton Manning who was better than Allen and Jackson to which I corrected him (per my original statement) that Brady was 0-3 on the road against Manning in the postseason.

I didn't even pick up the "road" aspect of it. Patriots teams didn't usually crap the bed like this Chiefs team in the regular season, so weren't often on the road. Brady did win at KC in 2018 vs Mahomes. Beat the Steelers on the road a couple of times.

As for Brady, he went through Rodgers and Brees on the road with Tampa. Both are better than anybody Mahomes faced this season. I'm a Chiefs fan. Mahomes wasn't great this year and that was part of why they were on the road. I'm not giving him extra credit for that. His defense was the difference in these playoff games this year.

 

[Deepster]

I didn't even pick up the "road" aspect of it. Patriots teams didn't usually crap the bed like this Chiefs team in the regular season, so weren't often on the road. Brady did win at KC in 2018 vs Mahomes. Beat the Steelers on the road a couple of times.

As for Brady, he went through Rodgers and Brees on the road with Tampa. Both are better than anybody Mahomes faced this season. I'm a Chiefs fan. Mahomes wasn't great this year and that was part of why they were on the road. I'm not giving him extra credit for that. His defense was the difference in these playoff games this year.

Crap the bed. LOL. The Pats run was greatly fueled by a horrific AFC East and an easy road to a first rd bye, bloated win total and home playoff games every year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Crap the bed. LOL. The Pats run was greatly fueled by a horrific AFC East and an easy road to a first rd bye, bloated win total and home playoff games every year.

And just how good was the AFC West this year? It was awful. Chiefs are my #2 team, I watch most of their games. Chiefs had the same record as Miami, Cleveland and Buffalo, while playing in the only AFC division with just one winning team. Sound familiar?

 

[Rocktheworld]

The Chiefs lost to Tampa, not because Tom was better than Pat, but because the Bucs utterly dominated the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. It was as dominant a performance as I've seen.

And this is why head-to-head matchup records between QBs has always been a joke of an argument in my opinion. Brady didn’t beat Mahomes, and Mahomes didn’t beat Jackson or Purdy or Allen. They don’t play each other, and have nothing to do with how well the other plays. This isn’t basketball.

 

[HuskyHawk]

And this is why head-to-head matchup records between QBs has always been a joke of an argument in my opinion. Brady didn’t beat Mahomes, and Mahomes didn’t beat Jackson or Purdy or Allen. They don’t play each other, and have nothing to do with how well the other plays. This isn’t basketball.

I completely agree with you. QB is the most important position in the game and is still given way too much credit for Wins and Losses. Mahomes wasn't the MVP on Sunday, come on. He was mostly not very good. But it's hard to pick a single defensive guy, so QB almost always wins it. Tom sure as hell was not the reason Tampa won. Dilfer could have won that game.

 

[HeGotGame]

Do you know the name Reche Caldwell?

In the same way I'm a UConn fan and Kansas fan 2nd, I'm a Patriots fan and Chiefs fan 2nd. I was rooting for the Chiefs. I like Mahomes. I just thought the whole "his WR stink" was, while true (until Rice emerged about mid-season) the same thing that was true for the Patriots for many seasons. They never won a SB with Moss. Edelman became a great slot guy over time. Both those Patriots teams and this Chiefs team won with defense.

The Chiefs lost to Tampa, not because Tom was better than Pat, but because the Bucs utterly dominated the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. It was as dominant a performance as I've seen. So what did KC do? They traded Hill. The beefed up the offensive line, including bringing in Thuney from the Pats (who was hurt and out this time). They rebuilt the defense, including getting McDuffie (who was the best player in this Super Bowl) with the draft haul.

So you would think you would know that Reche Caldwell never won a SB.

Cool story otherwise.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I completely agree with you. QB is the most important position in the game and is still given way too much credit for Wins and Losses. Mahomes wasn't the MVP on Sunday, come on. He was mostly not very good. But it's hard to pick a single defensive guy, so QB almost always wins it. Tom sure as hell was not the reason Tampa won. Dilfer could have won that game.

Who was the MVP if not him? He had an efficient 333 yards and a 99 passer rating

I don’t think QBs are given too much credit.

 

[Scoe]

Chris Jones was huge in that game too he literally took away 2 tds from the Niners plays that dont show up in the box score. Easily the best DT since Aaron Donald.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So you would think you would know that Reche Caldwell never won a SB.

Cool story otherwise.

Fine. Show me the big time WR on the 2004 team? Cory Dillon was the main weapon. No pass catcher as good as Kelce on that roster.

I'm not downgrading Mahomes. He's amazing. I'm simply suggesting that what they did this year wasn't all that unusual. It was a team built around defense. The Pats super bowl winning teams had a 1000 yard WR on one occasion.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Chris Jones was huge in that game too he literally took away 2 tds from the Niners plays that dont show up in the box score. Easily the best DT since Aaron Donald.

Also, McDuffie was incredible.

 

[HeGotGame]

Fine. Show me the big time WR on the 2004 team? Cory Dillon was the main weapon. No pass catcher as good as Kelce on that roster.

I'm not downgrading Mahomes. He's amazing. I'm simply suggesting that what they did this year wasn't all that unusual. It was a team built around defense. The Pats super bowl winning teams had a 1000 yard WR on one occasion.

You asked me if I knew Caldwell, and he was the guy you chose out of anyone to prove a point, yet you didn't even know he never won a SB.

You can do your own homework on 2004, you're gonna be really surprised by who won the SB MVP that year.

But keep trying to move the goalposts with each posts, it's pretty funny.

 

[Deepster]

And just how good was the AFC West this year? It was awful. Chiefs are my #2 team, I watch most of their games. Chiefs had the same record as Miami, Cleveland and Buffalo, while playing in the only AFC division with just one winning team. Sound familiar?

So did the Pats crap the bed all those years like you say the Chiefs just did then?

 

[Devland]

Andy Reid will never win father of the year.

 

[superjohn]

Multiple people shot at the Chiefs parade.

 

[Husky25]

As a Pats fan I can now say I understand how/why everyone hated them so much if it was half as bad as the lovefest for Mahomes and the Chiefs. I'm already sick of their act (obviously Taylor Swift didn't help it) and they are only halfway there compared to what the Pats did. When it's your team you don't see it, but when it's not........YUCK

Congrats to the Chiefs, who have accomplished 40% of the Patriots did, but it's way too early to call them the New Patriots. For starters, Belichick was in his early 50s after the Patriots won the tail end of their back-to-back Championships. Reid is 65. Is he going to be coaching at near 80 years old? How much of an adjustment will Mahomes be forced to make when he does retire?

Among the reasons for the comparative lovefest for Mahomes is because he "creates" and is exciting to watch, while Brady was thought of as a "system QB" for much of his career. This, of course, is a copout. At the end of the day, all QBs (including Mahomes) are "system QBs." That said, the first skill to often erode is athleticism. Whether he is able to adjust or not, does Mahomes play at this high of level into his late 30s let alone mid 40s?

Brady was a pocket passer, but could scramble as needed. He had exemptional awareness, footwork, and was quick in the pocket. Brady also played the first 1/4 quarter of his career under vastly different interpretations, let alone enforcement, of the rules, where emphasis on player safety was not nearly what it currently is. Mahomes is playing 7 v 7 flag football by comparison and still often unnecessarily breaks containment too early.

Brady also took less pay for the betterment of the team. His cap hit was never more 13.6%. Mahomes is nearly double, which means KC will probably have to play cap games for the remainder of Mahomes' career in order to surround him with workable pieces.

Most importantly, Mahomes was picked #10 overall. Brady was #199 and came out of comparatively nowhere. Pundits and haters don't like to admit they were, let alone actually be proven, wrong. So of course they are going to jump on the next new shiny model as soon as they can.

 

[superjohn]

Congrats to the Chiefs, who have accomplished 40% of the Patriots did, but it's way too early to call them the New Patriots. For starters, Belichick was in his early 50s after the Patriots won the tail end of their back-to-back Championships. Reid is 65. Is he going to be coaching at near 80 years old? How much of an adjustment will Mahomes be forced to make when he does retire?

Among the reasons for the comparative lovefest for Mahomes is because he "creates" and is exciting to watch, while Brady was thought of as a "system QB" for much of his career. This, of course, is a copout. At the end of the day, all QBs (including Mahomes) are "system QBs." That said, the first skill to often erode is athleticism. Whether he is able to adjust or not, does Mahomes play at this high of level into his late 30s let alone mid 40s?

Brady was a pocket passer, but could scramble as needed. He had exemptional awareness, footwork, and was quick in the pocket. Brady also played the first 1/4 quarter of his career under vastly different enforcement, let alone interpretations, of the rules, where emphasis on player safety was not nearly what it currently is. Mahomes is playing 7 v 7 flag football by comparison and still often unnecessarily breaks containment too early.

Brady also took less pay for the betterment of the team. His cap hit was never more 13.6%. Mahomes is nearly double, which means KC will probably have to play Cap games for the remainder of Mahomes' career in order to surround him with workable pieces.

Most importantly, Mahomes was picked #10 overall. Brady was #199 and came out of comparatively nowhere. Pundits and haters don't like to admit they were, let alone actually be proven, wrong. So of course they are going to jump on the next new shiny model as soon as they can.

Chiefs have accomplished 50% of what the Patriots accomplished, Reid isn't retiring any time soon, Mahomes greatness isn't due to his athleticism, and Brady played forever because he was hardly touched. Mahomes can most likely play forever as well if he wants to.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Chiefs have accomplished 50% of what the Patriots accomplished, Reid isn't retiring any time soon, Mahomes greatness isn't due to his athleticism, and Brady played forever because he was hardly touched. Mahomes can most likely play forever as well if he wants to.

50% is generous, division titles aren't close for example, but whatever. Brady played in an era when you could still hit QBs. And when DBs could still defend. He lasted so long because he focused on flexibility, moved well in the pocket and got rid of the ball on time. Mahomes is much more likely to get injured the way he plays. Even without contact, he's way more likely to tear up his knees. He also holds the ball too long trying to make things happen on broken plays (sometimes he does). I think he'll start changing some of that and will probably still be a great player.

There are some similarities, especially with the last two Chiefs teams that had great defenses. The strong QB play, TE play, the solid RB group and offensive and defensive line play are all similar. Reid really changed after Tampa destroyed his team at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. The current Chiefs are built a lot like the prime era Patriots teams, with a greater emphasis on the secondary due to the different era.

 

[superjohn]

50% is generous, division titles aren't close for example, but whatever. Brady played in an era when you could still hit QBs. And when DBs could still defend. He lasted so long because he focused on flexibility, moved well in the pocket and got rid of the ball on time. Mahomes is much more likely to get injured the way he plays. Even without contact, he's way more likely to tear up his knees. He also holds the ball too long trying to make things happen on broken plays (sometimes he does). I think he'll start changing some of that and will probably still be a great player.

There are some similarities, especially with the last two Chiefs teams that had great defenses. The strong QB play, TE play, the solid RB group and offensive and defensive line play are all similar. Reid really changed after Tampa destroyed his team at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. The current Chiefs are built a lot like the prime era Patriots teams, with a greater emphasis on the secondary due to the different era.

Patriots won 6 Superbowls, Chiefs won 3 Superbowls so far. This isn't hard.