OT: Is Carmelo Anthony The Most OVERRATED Star In NBA History?

[Travelman6]

Pretty solid arguments.

 

[Kitaman]

Not sure what happened to him, but he certainly was talented. Had size, skills and ability.

 

[Chin Diesel]

As a UConn fan I never liked him at cuse but you had to respect what he did as a frosh. At the time most teams still had plenty of upperclassmen talent and he delivered.
He was also all in for USA Basketball throughout his career. He easily could have taken some time off but he laced 'em up for the red, white and blue.
As an NBA player he was totally overrated. He was a good scorer and that was about it. Put him in the Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre and, possibly as good as a George Gervin.
He stopped all ball movement when the ball got in his hands, was average for rebounding and way below average for defense. He never really expanded his game once in the NBA and I don't know if his teams ever exceeded expectations.

 

[ColchVEGAS]

The progression of the game and advanced analytics happened to him. He excelled at the mid range game which is now looked at as the worst shots. If you are not getting to the basket for dunks/layups and free throws or hitting threes you are obsolete.

 

[Kenny11]

He’s actually becoming a little underrated because of how often he is criticized. I used to love watching him rip baseline and attack the rim. He played so strong and jumped so quick. His athleticism was definitely underrated.

 

[A10 fan]

The progression of the game and advanced analytics happened to him. He excelled at the mid range game which is now looked at as the worst shots. If you are not getting to the basket for dunks/layups and free throws or hitting threes you are obsolete.

This!

 

[Waquoit]

As a UConn fan I never liked him at cuse but you had to respect what he did as a frosh.

Lost to UConn twice?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The progression of the game and advanced analytics happened to him. He excelled at the mid range game which is now looked at as the worst shots. If you are not getting to the basket for dunks/layups and free throws or hitting threes you are obsolete.

This, and the fact that advanced analytics could quantify just how terrible Anthony was defensively. If Anthony played 20 years earlier, he would still be an all-star at this point in his career.

I think mid-range shots will make a comeback as the stat guys realize that only taking spots from the 3 point line and the basket makes it a lot easier to play defense. These shots are not all independent variables. If I am defending someone, and can close out on a 3 pointer at full speed because i know I have help defense at the rim, I will be a pretty effective perimeter defender. If I have to hold back a little because you may pump fake, take two dribbles, and drill a 15 footer, then the 3 pointers will actually be more open.

 

[Waquoit]

The progression of the game and advanced analytics happened to him.

Nah, being Melo happened to him. He wasn't about winning, more like everything but. He gave himself away when he put the kibosh on Linsanity.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Lost to UConn twice?

That made it even more sweet. Even in their most successful season UConn was 2-0 against them.

 

[Chief00]

As a UConn fan I never liked him at cuse but you had to respect what he did as a frosh. At the time most teams still had plenty of upperclassmen talent and he delivered.
He was also all in for USA Basketball throughout his career. He easily could have taken some time off but he laced 'em up for the red, white and blue.
As an NBA player he was totally overrated. He was a good scorer and that was about it. Put him in the Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre and, possibly as good as a George Gervin.
He stopped all ball movement when the ball got in his hands, was average for rebounding and way below average for defense. He never really expanded his game once in the NBA and I don't know if his teams ever exceeded expectations.

He became the NBA definition of good scorer, bad team. That’s what makes what Kemba is doing this year more amazing - less points sure but he has totally fit into the team concept where he’s not required to score as much but help other guys score more. Of course, UConn fans might expect that from Kemba but it’s really cool by NBA standards.

 

[AntG168]

No. He’s an easy punching bag though. He’s becoming more and more underrated. He’s a first ballot HOF

 

[Palatine]

He was a superb college player.

He was a good NBA scorer (not player) but nothing special. There are plenty flat out awful #1 picks in the history of the league. Kwame Brown anyone?

 

[8893]

Linsanity.

Speaking of overrated. Wow that was a flash in the pan. Fun while it lasted, though. I think my favorite part was the song parody they did to Gotye's "Somebody That I Used To Know," changing "somebody" to "Jeremy."

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

That made it even more sweet. Even in their most successful season UConn was 2-0 against them.

This.

Tyler Olander has as many NCAA Championship rings as Carmelo Anthony has losses against UConn.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Didn’t watch the video but your first problem is defining “star”

Because that may include some players that were way worse

He wasn’t “overrated” in that I think he produced, statistically, not far off expectations of his draft position.

Did he have one of the more disappointing careers in terms of winning and championships, relative to said position? Now that’s an argument, but then you have a much harder debate with AI, Harden (if he never wins one), Barkley, etc

 

[Chin Diesel]

Didn’t watch the video but your first problem is defining “star”

Because that may include some players that were way worse

He wasn’t “overrated” in that I think he produced, statistically, not far off expectations of his draft position.

Did he have one of the more disappointing careers in terms of winning and championships, relative to said position? Now that’s an argument, but then you have a much harder debate with AI, Harden (if he never wins one), Barkley, etc

He was overrated relative to the salary he commanded and the performance he gave for the salary. He handicapped every franchise because they couldn't afford to get enough other high quality players.
If you are MJ and you can make Hodges, Kerr and Paxton relevant, that's fine. Carmelo never figured how to use teammates' abilities to improve a team.

 

[Rocktheworld]

He was overrated relative to the salary he commanded and the performance he gave for the salary. He handicapped every franchise because they couldn't afford to get enough other high quality players.
If you are MJ and you can make Hodges, Kerr and Paxton relevant, that's fine. Carmelo never figured how to use teammates' abilities to improve a team.

Wow so Melo wasn’t MJ. Great argument. And sure forget the Phil part... MJ was doing a great job elevating his team before Phill showed up lol

You get paid what you’ve earned. Nobody had to pay him what he “commanded”. He averaged about 25 in Denver, and not much less in NY. I don’t care to look up how much he “commanded” but that is an elite scorer who deserves to make elite money. His career PER, despite his struggles of late, is still above 20, good for top 75 all time.

now stop making me pseudo-defend a Cuse mercenary

 

[superjohn]

Wow so Melo wasn’t MJ. Great argument. And sure forget the Phil part... MJ was doing a great job elevating his team before Phill showed up lol

You get paid what you’ve earned. Nobody had to pay him what he “commanded”. He averaged about 25 in Denver, and not much less in NY. I don’t care to look up how much he “commanded” but that is an elite scorer who deserves to make elite money. His career PER, despite his struggles of late, is still above 20, good for top 75 all time.

now stop making me pseudo-defend a Cuse mercenary

I have no idea why he brought up Jordan but to your point, yes Jordan was doing a great job elevating his team before Phil showed up. Not sure why the lol...

 

[Rocktheworld]

yes Jordan was doing a great job elevating his team before Phil showed up.

Such that they never made it out of the second round before Phil came around?

and even then, needed the Celtics and Detroit to get old

 

[superjohn]

Such that they never made it out of the second round before Phil came around?

and even then, needed the Celtics and Detroit to get old

An immmediate jump of 11 wins in first season and a 23 win jump by the third season. Come on, that Celtics team was maybe the best team ever and the Bad Boy Pistons were excellent. Don't know what point you're trying to make as we both know Carmelo should never even be mentioned in the same breathe as Jordan.

 

[AntG168]

He was a superb college player.

He was a good NBA scorer (not player) but nothing special. There are plenty flat out awful #1 picks in the history of the league. Kwame Brown anyone?

He was much better than a “good” NBA. He resurrected a dead Den franchise. They were absolutely terrible the year before he got there. THe next year bring them to the playoffs and should’ve been ROY. He made the playoffs every year of his career until he got to the Knicks dysfunctional organization(I’m a knicks fan). Carmelo suffered from bad career decisions and some bad luck. If he was drafted by Det he probably has multiple rings and is seen much different. But he was a plus rebounder and a top 3 scorer of his generation. He’s incredibly underrated now. The NBA changed under his feet. But in his era of iso ball who was better at doing that besides Kobe? Melo in the 2009 WCF was elite. That Denver team beats any team that would’ve came out the East that year and definitely that Magic team. LeBron(who I’m not saying isn’t better than Melo) feasted on a weak East. Melo didn’t have the luxury. His team was NEVER favored in the west because of the great teams out west(Lakers, Spurs, Dallas, Phx) hence the lack of playoff success. Not absolving Melo who made some very questionable decisions and was incredibly stubborn when it came to changing his game. But the man was a great player in his prime

 

[kemba]

He was overrated relative to the salary he commanded and the performance he gave for the salary. He handicapped every franchise because they couldn't afford to get enough other high quality players.
If you are MJ and you can make Hodges, Kerr and Paxton relevant, that's fine. Carmelo never figured how to use teammates' abilities to improve a team.

He was absolutely worth a max contract most of his career. That wasn't the problem. Hell his first few years with the Knicks he had Amare on his team as the highest paid player, and he gave them absolutely nothing except his first year, yet they managed to have some success.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Analytics suggest inefficient mid range shooters shouldn't take those shots. As an example, nobody is telling Kawhi Leonard/Kevin Durant not to take those shots, but for most basketball players, they dont knock them down at a rate efficient enough to justify shooting them. That's why you hear people generalize that the mid range is a bad shot, even though I would guess most elite players convert at a higher percentage closer to the rim.

I say all this while not knowing what Anthony's efficiency numbers looked like, but I loved watching him in his prime.

 

[Husky25]

He's an old 35 YO for the NBA and comparatively lazy on the defensive end.

He was only at 'Cuse for a year and it might be anecdotal but most Orange players seem to come out of Western NY on the soft side, defensively.