Irwin Article and Kyla will be at First Night

[Wbbfan1]

http://snyuconn.com/uconn/irwin-on-the-rise-entering-senior-year/

I suspect First Night will have plenty of recruits attending.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The reaction here to Kyla's recruitment was quite similar to that of Kia Nurse's recruitment. I'd like it to be similarly off the mark.

 

[UcMiami]

The reaction here to Kyla's recruitment was quite similar to that of Kia Nurse's recruitment. I'd like it to be similarly off the mark.

She seems like a great person - I think she will be a great teammate and Husky whether she reaches Kia status or not. From the little video I have seen she has an intriguing game.

 

[EricLA]

She seems like a great person - I think she will be a great teammate and Husky whether she reaches Kia status or not. From the little video I have seen she has an intriguing game.

IMHO, Kia has a chance to be just as good as what I consider the 2nd or 3rd tier of UCONN greats - ones not named Taurasi, Moore or Stewart (Charles, Cash, Bird, Jones, KML, Lobo, Abrosimova, Ralph, Wolters, Bascom in the 2nd tier and players like Montgomery, Dolson, and Hartley in the next tier).

Personally, from what I've seen and what she's accomplished, I think Kia has a chance to be just as good as the 2nd tier I listed.

The reason I piped in is because I just don't see Irwin with that kind of upside. I've compared her before to Sarah Hammond, who was a consensus top 15 kid coming out of HS and was a starter for L'ville for at least 3 out of her 4 years there. I think Kyla's max upside is to be as good as Sarah. And if Hammond had played for UCONN, she wouldn't be in the top 3 tiers for all time UCONN greats...

 

[UcMiami]

IMHO, Kia has a chance to be just as good as what I consider the 2nd or 3rd tier of UCONN greats - ones not named Taurasi, Moore or Stewart (Charles, Cash, Bird, Jones, KML, Lobo, Abrosimova, Ralph, Wolters, Bascom in the 2nd tier and players like Montgomery, Dolson, and Hartley in the next tier).

Personally, from what I've seen and what she's accomplished, I think Kia has a chance to be just as good as the 2nd tier I listed.

The reason I piped in is because I just don't see Irwin with that kind of upside. I've compared her before to Sarah Hammond, who was a consensus top 15 kid coming out of HS and was a starter for L'ville for at least 3 out of her 4 years there. I think Kyla's max upside is to be as good as Sarah. And if Hammond had played for UCONN, she wouldn't be in the top 3 tiers for all time UCONN greats...

I think I agree with your assessment - but I would say she has the personality and kind of basketball drive to become the kind of fan favorite that say Mel Thomas or CD the younger neither of whom I would place as high as 'third tier' based on your indicated levels.

 

[Gus Mahler]

IMHO, Kia has a chance to be just as good as what I consider the 2nd or 3rd tier of UCONN greats - ones not named Taurasi, Moore or Stewart (Charles, Cash, Bird, Jones, KML, Lobo, Abrosimova, Ralph, Wolters, Bascom in the 2nd tier and players like Montgomery, Dolson, and Hartley in the next tier).

There's an idea: A Mount Rushmore with tiers. Terraced, with nice walking and biking paths at each level. Healthy and historic. You stroll along in increasing awe as you get higher and higher. It would be almost spiritual.

As Rocky pointed out, you'll need a big(ger) mountain. If I had one to donate I would.

 

[Kibitzer]

The reason I piped in is because I just don't see Irwin with that kind of upside. I've compared her before to Sarah Hammond, who was a consensus top 15 kid coming out of HS and was a starter for L'ville for at least 3 out of her 4 years there. I think Kyla's max upside is to be as good as Sarah. And if Hammond had played for UCONN, she wouldn't be in the top 3 tiers for all time UCONN greats...

I honestly believe it is too much of a speculative stretch to compare Irwin to Hammond. Kyla has a senior year in HS ahead of her - Hammond has four less than fulfilling years at Louisville behind her.

UConn recruited Hammond cuz she was 6'2" and very good. The story is that her parents insisted on driving her to Storrs to demonstrate the lengthy travel from KY to CT and that factored heavily into her choice of UL over UConn. She was not a testimony to Jeff Walz's player development skills, as she seemed to be in foul trouble often and IMO had a low BB IQ.

So I suggest we judge Irwin's upside after we see her play, not make a remote connection to an underachieving player like Hammond.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

There's an idea: A Mount Rushmore with tiers. Terraced, with nice walking and biking paths at each level. Healthy and historic. You stroll along in increasing awe as you get higher and higher. It would be almost spiritual.

As Rocky pointed out, you'll need a big(ger) mountain. If I had one to donate I would.

Geno could open a restaurant mid-mountain!

 

[Bgillon]

I honestly believe it is too much of a speculative stretch to compare Irwin to Hammond. Kyla has a senior year in HS ahead of her - Hammond has four less than fulfilling years at Louisville behind her.

UConn recruited Hammond cuz she was 6'2" and very good. The story is that her parents insisted on driving her to Storrs to demonstrate the lengthy travel from KY to CT and that factored heavily into her choice of UL over UConn. She was not a testimony to Jeff Walz's player development skills, as she seemed to be in foul trouble often and IMO had a low BB IQ.

So I suggest we judge Irwin's upside after we see her play, not make a remote connection to an underachieving player like Hammond.

While we can excuse comparisons now because it's August and we need our UCONN fix, I agree that going from an analysis of a future player's skills to a conclusion on her upside in 5 years in a stretch to say the least. Don't forget, some of these same prognosticators said Kia would not replace Saniya last season, let alone in future years. And also they were congratulating Lambeer on his transformation of Kiah after 2-3 games, doing what poor Geno and staff couldn't do in 4 years.

 

[EricLA]

I think I agree with your assessment - but I would say she has the personality and kind of basketball drive to become the kind of fan favorite that say Mel Thomas or CD the younger neither of whom I would place as high as 'third tier' based on your indicated levels.

My 3rd tier were for players who mostly went on to have solid WNBA careers. I should have added Charde in that 3rd tier - even tho she was not really a Geno favorite, she certainly has done (and herself) proud with her charity work and her pro career. I included Ralph because even tho knee injuries shortened her career, she was good enough to be an all american. or almost one - i guess i should look at the complete list of folks on the wall of honor - all of them would be on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd tier of UCONN greats... again just my opinion though!!

 

[EricLA]

I honestly believe it is too much of a speculative stretch to compare Irwin to Hammond. Kyla has a senior year in HS ahead of her - Hammond has four less than fulfilling years at Louisville behind her.

UConn recruited Hammond cuz she was 6'2" and very good. The story is that her parents insisted on driving her to Storrs to demonstrate the lengthy travel from KY to CT and that factored heavily into her choice of UL over UConn. She was not a testimony to Jeff Walz's player development skills, as she seemed to be in foul trouble often and IMO had a low BB IQ.

So I suggest we judge Irwin's upside after we see her play, not make a remote connection to an underachieving player like Hammond.

I was referring to her upside. Personally I believe she will be a role player - nothing wrong with that - lots of really solid players were considered "role" players. Swanier, Hunter, Gardler, McClaren, and Dixon to name a few. Some even went on to have solid pro careers (Swanier for example). The point I was trying to make is that her game is similar to Hammond, and not knowing enough about Irwin's game, my thought is her MAX upside is Sara Hammond. She may never be as good as Hammond - HS rankings indicate she probably won't be.

As for Hammond's "underachieving upside", all I can say is she was a 3+ year starer and helped lead the team to some final 4's. If Kyla ends up as good as Sara, I'd say we struck platinum.

 

[Bonpland]

The conversation between ericsandiego and Kibitzer is interesting and I think that they are both right. Physically anyway Kyla and Sara are a pretty good match, and it is too early to start comparing a verbal recruit to a Final Four forward.

But separately I think that Hammond has served for me to be the example of a player who missed out on what might have been had she come to Storrs. From the first I liked Hammond and her attitude. After her freshman year I thought that she was destined to become a major force on the court, but that didn't happen. She was strong and willing to fight underneath, and she had a decent mid-range shot, but she didn't improve markedly during her four years, and she never became a game changer the way that I thought she might.

It's totally unfair to her, to Walz, and to her teammates to suggest that she might have been a different player had she come here, but that's what I thought everytime I watched her play these last few years.

Kibitzer said that she had a low BB IQ, and that might be the case, but I thought that too often she just looked lost and out of position. She fouled too much because she was usually behind the play and not set well to defend. Because I liked her so much I said to myself that she "under-performed" because she was poorly coached.

After Geno I place Walz as my favorite coach, not the best after Geno, just my favorite. But it looked like he and Hammond never connected the way that they should have. Now given that Jeff has taken underdog teams to the Final Four I guess we should attribute Hammond's good but not great career to some failing on her part, but I never watched her play that I didn't think that she would have been a force had she been wearing our blue and white.

 

[UcMiami]

It's totally unfair to her, to Walz, and to her teammates to suggest that she might have been a different player had she come here, but that's what I thought everytime I watched her play these last few years.

After Geno I place Walz as my favorite coach, not the best after Geno, just my favorite. But it looked like he and Hammond never connected the way that they should have. Now given that Jeff has taken underdog teams to the Final Four I guess we should attribute Hammond's good but not great career to some failing on her part, but I never watched her play that I didn't think that she would have been a force had she been wearing our blue and white.

I think the first sentence above is important for people to remember, as well as your following point. Gene doesn't work for everyone and I look at some of the players at Uconn, like Kaili - in a deferent program would things have worked out differently for her - might she have become another Danielle Adams - she had a great time at Uconn but never really excelled to what she might have been. Or a player like Heather - who might have thrived in a less perfectionist program - I felt physically she was great, but something happened to her confidence and she could never overcome it. Or Kiah even.
This is not a knock on Geno who I think does a great job with a wide range of players - just a recognition that it is a two way thing, and some players/coaches do not mix for some reason and the results are less than they could be.

 

[JoePgh]

One thing is fairly certain: if Sarah Hammond had come to UConn, she would have played fewer minutes than she played at Louisville -- probably far fewer. Even if she developed better basketball skills, she would have been competing for time against Morgan, Stewie, and KML. I doubt that she would have averaged more than about 17 to 18 minutes per game even as a senior.

But with all the publicity and TV time that she would have gotten as a UConn bench player, she might have been a 2nd or 3rd round WNBA draft pick. I doubt that she would have made a roster though.

 

[Huskies Rule]

But for a few exceptions, Kiah Stokes was never a starter (though a HS AA), but as a role player coming off the bench she was still able to exert a huge impact on many big games, and she became an essential contributor to the past two National Championship teams. NCs are won by the best TEAM, and the great teams are much more than simply a collection of All-Americans. So Kyla Irwin isn't a McD AA- I really don't care. It takes a special kind of kid to come off the bench when a starter is in foul trouble, or hurt, or the team is in need of a spark- and to excel in those limited minutes. That said, I think Kyla Irwin is going to be exactly that kind of super-sub, and a perfect fit for UConn. She isn't anybody's AA, but she is big and strong, tough and determined, and seems like a kid willing to do whatever it takes to win. On a team with a nucleus of All-Americans, Kyla Irwin is exactly what is needed. [Geno might very well have concocted her in his basketball 101 laboratory] I'm loving this kid already.

I'm encouraged by her words (from Adamec's article):

“I take it as a challenge,” Irwin said. “But going to Connecticut is what I want so I’m not going to back down or hide from that challenge. And when other players go harder against me and push me harder, that’s only going to make me a better player.”

"I have great coaches and great teammates. WE play really well together and OUR chemistry is so good.”

“... I like to think that I got better (after injured). Everyone faces adversity and you deal with it and you work to get past it. This summer I wanted to get stronger and smarter and I believe I did that.”

 

[Bonpland]

UcMiami, right after I posted about Hammond I thought I should follow it up by adding your point that Geno doesn't walk on water and his style and system doesn't work for everyone. You know if Charde had gone elsewhere that she would have scored a lot of points, and I agree that there have been players here that never developed because they didn't get the chance and at least some of that is on the coaching.

But, and I would yield to the opinion of others on this, Hammond always struck me as a player that would have worked well here. Maybe that's assuming too much, but I felt the same way about Walker after she went to Kentucky; that she would have been a better player had she stayed in Storrs. Walker wanted out and Hammond didn't come at all so assuming anything about what might have been is of little value. It must be August.

 

[DaddyChoc]

aren't these guys verbals... who are the unsigned that will be coming to First Night, those are the more important ones for a First Night event

 

[chrissaran]

Geno, CD, Shea, and Marissa are in a class by themselves. Kyla will be an excellent player. She has the want to.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'm curious about Kyla. She doesn't have the greatest athleticism, but she is smart, a tough inside player, and a solid 3-point shooter. I think she'll be better than Megan Gardler and probably Will Crockett. She'll do the dirty work while Crystal runs by people, Lou drills treys, and Napheesa takes over games.

 

[UcMiami]

I'm curious about Kyla. She doesn't have the greatest athleticism, but she is smart, a tough inside player, and a solid 3-point shooter. I think she'll be better than Megan Gardler and probably Will Crockett. She'll do the dirty work while Crystal runs by people, Lou drills treys, and Napheesa takes over games.

I think I would rather say she does't have the classic 'athletic' body type, but I am quite impressed in the limited video I have seen of her with her balance, footwork, and agility, and it is hard to judge speed. (I would have said the same thing about Dolson, and a few others in their HS incarnations, and others said the same of KML in her senior college year!)

 

[Gus Mahler]

I think I would rather say she does't have the classic 'athletic' body type, but I am quite impressed in the limited video I have seen of her with her balance, footwork, and agility, and it is hard to judge speed. (I would have said the same thing about Dolson, and a few others in their HS incarnations, and others said the same of KML in her senior college year!)

Balance, footwork, and agility are good for rebounding. And scoring amidst traffic.

 

[PhillyCoach]

But for a few exceptions, Kiah Stokes was never a starter (though a HS AA), but as a role player coming off the bench she was still able to exert a huge impact on many big games, and she became an essential contributor to the past two National Championship teams. NCs are won by the best TEAM, and the great teams are much more than simply a collection of All-Americans. So Kyla Irwin isn't a McD AA- I really don't care. It takes a special kind of kid to come off the bench when a starter is in foul trouble, or hurt, or the team is in need of a spark- and to excel in those limited minutes. That said, I think Kyla Irwin is going to be exactly that kind of super-sub, and a perfect fit for UConn. She isn't anybody's AA, but she is big and strong, tough and determined, and seems like a kid willing to do whatever it takes to win. On a team with a nucleus of All-Americans, Kyla Irwin is exactly what is needed. [Geno might very well have concocted her in his basketball 101 laboratory] I'm loving this kid already.

I'm encouraged by her words (from Adamec's article):

“I take it as a challenge,” Irwin said. “But going to Connecticut is what I want so I’m not going to back down or hide from that challenge. And when other players go harder against me and push me harder, that’s only going to make me a better player.”

"I have great coaches and great teammates. WE play really well together and OUR chemistry is so good.”

“... I like to think that I got better (after injured). Everyone faces adversity and you deal with it and you work to get past it. This summer I wanted to get stronger and smarter and I believe I did that.”

Hey Huskie - Great post. I really enjoyed your one statement "Geno might very well have concocted her in his basketball 101 laboratory."
IMHO Geno/CD are unique and more nuanced about recruiting than all the rest. Many coaches and most fans would love it if THEIR TEAM had 15 All-Americans. Not Geno--not even close. IMO Geno has 4 categories of recruits - Starters (looking for two AA each year as a goal - Geno's words); Role players; Bench players; Culture/chemistry players. It seemed to me that Geno saw Irwin "as Huskies Rule stated" --super -sub perfect fit (culture too)--instant offer. That is why so many, even BY posters, couldn't understand the offer, especially so quick. Molly Bent, IMO, is in the same category--role player or bench player with the culture part intact too. Lou and Collier are the starter recruits with the future AA goal in mind. Boykin is a role player recruit with an big upside. The two walk-ons were perfect culture/chemistry recruits. Those girls are wonderful kids (as most UConn kids are anyway), upbeat, positive and very thankful. Stokes was the perfect role player. Chong is more of a bench player--subs for PG or SG. Fills a temporary need, but doesn't usually control a game like Stokes--or GAbby. Gabby is a classic role player/6th man, change the game, fire it up, score points, gets rebounds.
So, when Geno sees a player who fits a specific category he acts quickly to fill the bill. He knows it when he sees it. Forget the 15 All-American players--Geno recruits a TEAM.
Added note on another player - I wholeheartedly agree with the posters who mentioned that they liked Hammond, but she never developed.

 

[Huskies Rule]

Hey Huskie - Great post. I really enjoyed your one statement "Geno might very well have concocted her in his basketball 101 laboratory."
IMHO Geno/CD are unique and more nuanced about recruiting than all the rest. Many coaches and most fans would love it if THEIR TEAM had 15 All-Americans. Not Geno--not even close. IMO Geno has 4 categories of recruits - Starters (looking for two AA each year as a goal - Geno's words); Role players; Bench players; Culture/chemistry players. It seemed to me that Geno saw Irwin "as Huskies Rule stated" --super -sub perfect fit (culture too)--instant offer. That is why so many, even BY posters, couldn't understand the offer, especially so quick. Molly Bent, IMO, is in the same category--role player or bench player with the culture part intact too. Lou and Collier are the starter recruits with the future AA goal in mind. Boykin is a role player recruit with an big upside. The two walk-ons were perfect culture/chemistry recruits. Those girls are wonderful kids (as most UConn kids are anyway), upbeat, positive and very thankful. Stokes was the perfect role player. Chong is more of a bench player--subs for PG or SG. Fills a temporary need, but doesn't usually control a game like Stokes--or GAbby. Gabby is a classic role player/6th man, change the game, fire it up, score points, gets rebounds.
So, when Geno sees a player who fits a specific category he acts quickly to fill the bill. He knows it when he sees it. Forget the 15 All-American players--Geno recruits a TEAM.
Added note on another player - I wholeheartedly agree with the posters who mentioned that they liked Hammond, but she never developed.

While the passion and energy always seemed to be there in Hammond's play, it's impossible to know whether, in fact, she ever had it inside her to become great, or if Louisville's coaches were just unable to develop and bring that out.

 

[Kibitzer]

Philly Coach - your breakdown by category of a typical UConn wcbb roster was spot-on. Reminds me of the credo of Red Auerbach (greatest NBA coach and certifiable genius in his field). Crafty Red had two rules (that I know of):

1. You must have a roster comprised of a combination of stars, role players and practice players. After all, he could suit up 15 but relied on 8 or so in the regular rotation. Thus the deliberate need for role/practice players to flesh it out.

2. On the court, five players. At least two scorers and three rebounders. All must be defenders.​

An uncomplicated formula for sustained success.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

UConn gets the reputation that all their recruits are 5* players and McDonalds All Americans. Bent and Irwin shows this isn't the case. I think the best attribute of a "team" is everyone knowing their roles. The superstars have to be superstars, the bench players know they are bench players and support the starters when they're on the court. The starters cheer on the bench players when they are sitting on the bench. One of the reasons why players transfers is because they don't understand their role on the team. (I think that's happened to that UConn player last year). So knowing the proper role on the team is important.