Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[upstater]

When the American adds them, sure. The Service acadamies aren't national universities though, I don't think. There is a Post Graduate Naval School in California, but I'm not sure it's part of the US Naval Academy. That's an interesting one, but the Naval Academiy is good academically. But the AAC should truly add Navy for everything to actually add them. This comparison was for football though.

Are all the ACC schools national universities? No.

 

[btstimpy]

Clearly, if the ACC cared at all about academics, it wouldn't have taken the #161 school over the #57 school when the #57 school has better basketball and is 4-6 in the last 10 games of football against the #161 school.

Academics don't matter.

In fact, according to your link, UConn is ranked ahead of 8 of the ACC schools.

But about the B1G, they clearly want AAU schools. They have the CIC to think about, so there is an academic element, whereas there isn't one in the ACC. Besides, the USNWR are crazy. Anyone who ranks Clemson ahead of B1G schools like U. Minnesota doesn't know the first thing about Higher Education in America.

I get that you don't like the USNWR rankings. But they are the gold standard in the industry, and they are what anyone in the media will use to analyze this subject. I can't help with that.

And you probably would expect me to say by now that out of the 4 categories this writer used, the Top 100 and Sub 100 ones wouldn't be the ones to focus on. Focus on the Top 25 and Top 50 categories. I can't help that the SEC and Big XII don't have much to offer in those, but we are talking academics here.

 

[Yawkey Way]

No, I actually am a little concerned for you......

Lol!.. no, you're not !

 

[Seaa Blue]

Then Add Notre Dame to the ACC since we actually aren't football only. And Notre Dame will be playing five football games anyway.

Can we take Chicago and Johns Hopkins then?

 

[btstimpy]

Can we take Chicago and Johns Hopkins then?

As soon as either plays 5 football games against the Big Ten Teams per season, yes you may. Until then, it wouldn't make any sense.

 

[upstater]

I get that you don't like the USNWR rankings. But they are the gold standard in the industry, and they are what anyone in the media will use to analyze this subject. I can't help with that.

And you probably would expect me to say by now that out of the 4 categories this writer used, the Top 100 and Sub 100 ones wouldn't be the ones to focus on. Focus on the Top 25 and Top 50 categories. I can't help that the SEC and Big XII don't have much to offer in those, but we are talking academics here.

They are not the gold standard in the industry. Not at all. Any industry insider is going to look at Carnegie or NRC. They won't even bother with USNWR, a rag that has been embarrassed so often in that same news media you reference. For instance, they had to admit a few years ago that they were copying the Carnegie classification system back when USNWR used tiers, but they didn't understadn what the tiers were, so they had to apologize and stop using them. Carnegie basically admonished them for getting it all wrong. Not only that, but when the USNWR surveys have made it into the media, they have been incredibly embarrassing. The president of FSU was dropping Ivy league schools into the 3rd tier and elevating his former institution into the top 10. Hell, Reed College is way down in the rankings simply because they don't adhere to USNWRs reporting system. What does that tell you? If you're going to punish a really good school because it reports things differently, then that tells me your system is rubbish.

Let me tell you: if you really believe Clemson is better than Minnesota, you are totally lost, and if you think Louisville is as good as Minnesota, you're impossible to help.

 

[BlueHen]

As soon as either plays 5 football games against the Big Ten Teams per season, yes you may. Until then, it wouldn't make any sense.

About as much sense as coming to a UConn message board to talk up the ACC.

 

[Yawkey Way]

.

Academics don't matter.

quote]
So true. All one has to do is line up all the schools in all the conferences on a sheet of paper,then beside each school, using any measuring stick one prefers to use, write the academic rankings beside each school in that conference. Do this with all the conferences ( except for the Ivies of course ), and the exercise clearly should convince one that these league alignments were contructed with little to no consideration to academic standings whatsoever. Vanderbilt is in a league with Mississippi State. West Virginia with BC. Navy will be in a league with Memphis. Northwestern with Michigan State... ND just joined a hockey league with Umass- Lowell. Duke is in a league with NC State. Stanford with Washington State, and on and on.

 

[MSNDfan]

Louisville over Uconn.

One thing that marks how serious and well set up a university is for future academic reputation enhancement is endowment. I believe Louisville's is about 1.2 billion dollars. And I think I have read somewhere that UConn's is about 370 million.

 

[Yawkey Way]

So you are saying that a priest was lying?

Good grief.. do I have to spell it out for you now ? look, I'm not trying to be rude here, but did you read what I wrote above ?. Why then are you asking me a question for an answer that should seem readily apparent to you if you so much as even did a quick and cursory read of my remarks ?. But since its apparently unclear STILL to you... Yes, it appears the Priest was less than completely truthful. Are you under some assumption that a Priest ( or Rabbi, Minister, Judge, etc ) don't skirt around the truth sometimes ... and yes, on occasion even lie? The school presidents all talk about " academics ", when we all know ( or should by now ) that revenues drive just about every single decision a school president makes regarding their football program. What do we expect a school president of all these schools to say ?... " I made this decision to make a lot of money for myself and the school ? " Com'on ( haha! ).. they all talk about the" academics" angle with the press when called upon. ALL of 'em. Everybody knows ( or most do anyway ) what the gig is with all these schools that play in the P5 Conferences, and the ones on the outside that want a future piece of that money up for grabs.

 

[upstater]

One thing that marks how serious and well set up a university is for future academic reputation enhancement is endowment. I believe Louisville's is about 1.2 billion dollars. And I think I have read somewhere that UConn's is about 370 million.

Already addressed. The amount of state support UConn receives blows away Louisville's endowment + state support out of the water. It receives 2x as much support as Louisville's support + endowment combined.

Louisville's endowment is 788 million. Apparently, according to you, Louisville's future is brighter than the futures of Georgia, Miami, Rutgers, Brandeis (all AAU), Colgate, Oberlin, Lafayette, Pepperdine, William & Mary, Bucknell, Virginia Tech, RPI, Northeastern, etc.

And, Texas A&M is going to pound Notre Dame into the sand academically in the future.

What is it about you ACC people that you know very little about academic reputation?

 

[Yawkey Way]

What is it about you ACC people that you know very little about academic reputation?

Its probably hereditary, or genetics.... or bad schooling, bad teachers, floride in our water,... a combination... or something else entirely, who knows.

And this " academic reputation " of these P5 and non P5 football league schools has to do with what again ?

 

[Seaa Blue]

One thing that marks how serious and well set up a university is for future academic reputation enhancement is endowment. I believe Louisville's is about 1.2 billion dollars. And I think I have read somewhere that UConn's is about 370 million.

Is it then significant that Louisville is #3 in Kentucky? Can you guess who's #1?

U of L’s endowment ranked third-largest in the state, behind Berea College (No. 82, $1.01 billion) and the University of Kentucky (No. 84, $992.4 million). Centre College ranked No. 262 in the study, with endowment assets of $231.2 million.​

 

[Yawkey Way]

t Texas A&M is going to pound Notre Dame into the sand academically in the future.

quote]

And I and others should care about this....... beacuse ?

 

[upstater]

Because you are responsible for your fellow conference mates' idiocy.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Because you are responsible for your fellow conference mates' idiocy.

I don't about this. You were not personally responsible for every BE fan's expressions of what you'd label as " idiocy" when you were in the BE, and noone should hold you responsible in the future for any AAC fan's comments that could be deemed as " idiocy " that may surface on occasion as well for you over the next few months or few years.. No fan is responsible for another fan's remarks, whatever they may be, no matter if their team is in the other fan's league or not.

 

[upstater]

I don't about this. You were not personally responsible for every BE fan's expressions of what you'd label as " idiocy" when you were in the BE, and noone should hold you responsible in the future for any AAC fan's comments that could be deemed as " idiocy " that may surface on occasion as well for you over the next few months or few years.. No fan is responsible for another fan's remarks, whatever they may be, no matter if their team is in the other fan's league or not.

Well, if you're not responsible, then why question my response to his contention that Louisville has a better academic future than UConn?

 

[Yawkey Way]

Well, if you're not responsible, then why question my response to his contention that Louisville has a better academic future than UConn?

I didn't question your response to him at all on the substance of either one of the both of your remarks. As a matter of fact, a cursory read of my remarks above should have one conclude that in my view, the academic standings of schools has little if anything at all to do with how schools form themselves into leagues for their football programs. None of these football leagues care a wit about any school's "academic future". They only care about that school's future football program prospects as they evaluate it, and additionally in their view, whether or not that school's football program will satisfy the adverstisers that pay the big bucks for TV adverstising slots. As such, we readly see that the leagues make up of schools have nothing at all to do with either the current academic reputation of the school, nor how these sports leagues view the future academics of the schools. I'm more than willing to accept your prediction that Uconn will have " a better academic future than Louisville ", as frankly I'm not privy to either school's blueprint for the future in this regard. And none of my remarks from above should have you believe that I discounted either your prediction, nor the other's fan's assessment prediction on this " academic future " of either Uconn or Louisville.

 

[upstater]

I didn't question your response to him at all on the substance of either one of the both of your remarks. As a matter of fact, a cursory read of my remarks above should have one conclude that in my view, the academic standings of schools has little if anything at all to do with how schools form themselves into leagues for their football programs. None of these football leagues care a wit about any school's "academic future". They only care about that school's future football program prospects as they evaluate it, and in their view, whether or not that school's football program will satisfy the adverstisers that pay the big bucks for adverstising slots. As such, we readly see that the leagues make up of schools have nothing at all to do with either the current academic reputation of the school, nor how these sports leagues view the future academics of the schools. Thats how I assess these things anyway.

Right. I agree, with the exception of the CIC consortium in the B1G, but even then, I'm sure the B1G would accept a school outside the AAU. (I seriously doubt they'd ever take a Louisville however).

 

[The Funster]

I agree with both of you. Whenever I hear about conferences extolling the virtues of their "like minded members" I do chuckle. Like minded as in "focused on money".

 

[CL82]

The new BC Head Basketball Coach hired 2 excellent assistants with good reps for recruiting, and BC will be paying them them more than most of the ACC schools are paying their assistant Basketball Coaches. But make no mistake, BC will never be a basketball school. But it is college football that primarily derives the realignment bus across all these leagues.. When Miami started the dominos to fall in college football realignment, it wasn't their college basketball program the ACC was interested in luring away from the BE.

BC is not a football school.. who has said they are ? Anyone thats a BC alum or fan that says this is just being silly. ( Uconn is not a " football school " in the eyes of the public either. That would be equally silly to state as well, of course )

Well your post certainly seemed to suggest that it was.

I'm not sure that understand your point. So BC is neither a basketball school or a football school. I guess that it is a hockey school. But as a "not a football school" it is going to be willing to make the investment in terms of added benefits proposed by the P5? Remember that Title IX plays a role here as well. Benefits conveyed to the huge football roster have to be balanced by benefits to female athletes. That a huge investment for a school that "isn't a football school."

 

[Yawkey Way]

Well your post certainly seemed to suggest that it was.

."

No.. the comment did not suggest this at all. Sorry you took it that way however. If you follow the next sentence above of " football driving the realignment bus ", you will see I was referring in my remarks to Miami ( not BC ) in that sentence paragraph. As for making the financial investments in football commensurate with the other P5 schools, it is my observation that BC will continue to make those financial investments. Keep in mind that my remarks you highlighted above was in a reply to a poster that commented on the BC new's hire in Basketball, and my response reply is best viewed in that proper context.

 

[BlueHen]

No.. the comment did not suggest this at all. Sorry you took it that way however. If you follow the next sentence above of " football driving the realignment bus ", you will see I was referring in my remarks to Miami ( not BC ) in that sentence paragraph.

Yeah, it does.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Yeah, it does.

OK, we'll just agree to disagree on this point, and I'm sorry you misunderstood my remarks that lead you to a place that I genuinely did not intend to have you arrive at in terms of my remarks.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I agree with both of you. Whenever I hear about conferences extolling the virtues of their "like minded members" I do chuckle. Like minded as in "focused on money".

Consensus is a beautiful thing.

The support of Papa Johns was likely the original ball that started things in motion of UL to the ACC.

 

[buddy]

Good grief.. do I have to spell it out for you now ? look, I'm not trying to be rude here, but did you read what I wrote above ?. Why then are you asking me a question for an answer that should seem readily apparent to you if you so much as even did a quick and cursory read of my remarks ?. But since its apparently unclear STILL to you... Yes, it appears the Priest was less than completely truthful. Are you under some assumption that a Priest ( or Rabbi, Minister, Judge, etc ) don't skirt around the truth sometimes ... and yes, on occasion even lie? The school presidents all talk about " academics ", when we all know ( or should by now ) that revenues drive just about every single decision a school president makes regarding their football program. What do we expect a school president of all these schools to say ?... " I made this decision to make a lot of money for myself and the school ? " Com'on ( haha! ).. they all talk about the" academics" angle with the press when called upon. ALL of 'em. Everybody knows ( or most do anyway ) what the gig is with all these schools that play in the P5 Conferences, and the ones on the outside that want a future piece of that money up for grabs.

You still didn't say that he lied. Less than completely truthful? What is that? Is less than complete truth a lie? A white lie..or a full lie? What else was lying about? We don't hold school presidents or god forbid, lawyers or judges to the level of sanctity that envisioned for members of the priesthood.( I can't speak for Rabbi's or ministers, but I suspect they are held to the same standards). We all know what priests are capable of as it has been well documented. I just wanted to hear you call a lie a lie. I am far from stupid. Vindictive and evil yes. Stupid no. I hate BC. Always will.

 

[Yawkey Way]

. I just wanted to hear you call a lie a lie. I am far from stupid. Vindictive and evil yes. Stupid no. I hate BC. Always will.

Well, if you hate BC and the Priest, then it really doesn't matter whether or not I think his remarks can be interpreted as was anything from " less than forthcoming ".... all the way over to the side of.. " he intentionally lied ". If you believe ( as it appears you do ) that he intentionally lied to the reporter(s) interviewing him, then that should be satisfactory to you to draw your own conclusion quite apart from my sense of his remarks. Keep in mind that it is my position that ALL the School President's ( secular or religious ) almost ineviteably when talking to a reporter cite the " academic" : consideration side, when most observers understand that the leagues football leagues are decided on issues entirely unrelated to "academics ", but are almost exclusively made on the revenues to the school to be generated side. Are all the Presidents " lying ", when they cite the " academics " for their decision with reporters, or is this just confined to just the BC School President ? Well, it doesn't matter what I think on this , as it appears you have convinced yourself that only the BC President " lied " when he referred to the decision from the academic angle and not from the revenues angle.

As for holding" a Priest" to a higher level of responsibility, this is out of my domain, as I'm not Catholic, so I'll leave the religious angle on this up to you Catholics as to how you judge your Priests and what you make of them. If you tell me you are " A Catholic "( not sure if you are.. but it seems so, as you are holding this Priest up for evaluation based upon his religion ) and as you claim here you are ( your words ) " evil " as well, these are not in my areas of knowledge sufficient enough for me to caste either judgment, nor debate, on your self indentification..

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Ugh. It's not a lie when the speaker believes it. They all believe their academic puff talk because they're in that business. When an exceptions are made it's because circumstances forced it, not because they want to.

 

[MSNDfan]

I certainly can admit when I'm wrong. Unless this board is in many ways nearly 180 degrees opposite from the UConn administration, my thread title is wrong.

 

[Dooley]

I certainly can admit when I'm wrong. Unless this board is in many ways nearly 180 degrees opposite from the UConn administration, my thread title is wrong.

You're not really Irish, are you? I knew it.