Indiana Fever Question

[Jmul760170]

Maybe the Fever should have hired a coach that had head coaching experience on their resume.
Not sure the WNBA is a job to learn on the fly.

 

[WLT1717]

They are such a young team. Aside from Mitchell and Wheeler, all of the players have been in the W for 4 years or less. The core group of Boston/Smith/Clark are 22-23 years old. It'll take time. I am not making any judgements on Coach Sides as of yet.

Have you watched the nine games of the season?

 

[GamecockFam]

Have you watched the nine games of the season?

I believe I have. I may have missed one. Why do you ask?

 

[Bigboote]

Maybe the Fever should have hired a coach that had head coaching experience on their resume.
Not sure the WNBA is a job to learn on the fly.

I have to agree. If you look at the players who just come to mind: Boston, Clark, Smith, Mitchell, Samuelson, Wheeler, Berger, Hull

They played, and most of them played very well, for: Dawn Staley, Lisa Bluder, Kim Mulkey/Nicki Collen, Kevin McGuff, Geno Auriemma, C Vivian Stringer, Teri Moren and Tara Vanderveer.

Either the coach can’t teach them how to play as a team or they can’t learn to play as a team. Those players learned from the best coaches out there, and for sure at least one or two of the players will become coaches. They can learn. That indicates to me that the coach either doesn’t have a clear vision for the team or she can’t communicate.

Sides seems like a decent person, and I like many of the players. I hope she/they figure it out, but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[huskeynut]

I have to agree. If you look at the players who just come to mind: Boston, Clark, Smith, Mitchell, Samuelson, Wheeler, Berger, Hull

They played, and most of them played very well, for: Dawn Staley, Lisa Bluder, Kim Mulkey/Nicki Collen, Kevin McGuff, Geno Auriemma, C Vivian Stringer, Teri Moren and Tara Vanderveer.

Either the coach can’t teach them how to play as a team or they can’t learn to play as a team. Those players learned from the best coaches out there, and for sure at least one or two of the players will become coaches. They can learn. That indicates to me that the coach either doesn’t have a clear vision for the team or she can’t communicate.

Sides seems like a decent person, and I like many of the players. I hope she/they figure it out, but I’m not holding my breath.

What ever the problem is, the Fever are a bad team right now. Or should I say disfunctional. And I mean from the front office right on down.

There is talent on the roster but they do not play as a team. I have no idea how they are going to fix this problem.

 

[Bigboote]

What ever the problem is, the Fever are a bad team right now. Or should I say disfunctional. And I mean from the front office right on down.

Lin Dunn is a hall-of-famer and somebody I had a lot of respect for till the last 5 years or so. What happened? Has she risen to her Peter Principle as a basketball executive?

 

[JstVisiting]

Huge Aliyah Boston fan and CC skeptic. I watched Boston play through hard fouls for four years, and I know her entire on court persona is rise above it and play through.

But this isn’t college. Might only be one year of experience, but she’s both the most respected vet on that team and (usually) the strongest woman on the court. She needs to start rattling some teeth.

‘You can take cheap shots and hard fouls all you want, but just know it’s coming back to you in spades.’

 

[Gamecockfan77]

What ever the problem is, the Fever are a bad team right now. Or should I say disfunctional. And I mean from the front office right on down.

There is talent on the roster but they do not play as a team. I have no idea how they are going to fix this problem.

Geez, give them a second to figure out what they're doing. They aren't a hugely talented bunch.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I actually think the Fever will win more games when CC has a stat line like the first Sparks game than this one. 12 pts, 10 rebounds and 8 assists. Or something. I’m not surprised she scored 30 tonight and they lost at home to a team they beat on the road last week. And this isn’t a knock on Clark, I’m sure she was happier scoring less points winning than she was tonight. I think it’s clear Sides has no idea how to balance the expectations of fans coming to see a Clark based offense and building an offense (and defense with so many defensive liabilities) that can win games.

Hmmm another similar stat line to the Sparks game and another W for Indiana. Looks like I was on to something here.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Huge Aliyah Boston fan and CC skeptic. I watched Boston play through hard fouls for four years, and I know her entire on court persona is rise above it and play through.

But this isn’t college. Might only be one year of experience, but she’s both the most respected vet on that team and (usually) the strongest woman on the court. She needs to start rattling some teeth.

‘You can take cheap shots and hard fouls all you want, but just know it’s coming back to you in spades.’

I've been thinking something along those lines. Maybe it doesn't have to be Boston, but there needs to be some indication that Clark's teammates have her back and will protect her. Same with Coach Sides. She did pick up a T getting on the refs against Seattle, but it took her almost 3 quarters of watching her team, and especially Clark, getting abused before she did it.

 

[my2cents]

The offense they run is terrible. Mitchell's one/one moves are forced and generally lead to airballs.

 

[WBBTakeover]

Huge Aliyah Boston fan and CC skeptic. I watched Boston play through hard fouls for four years, and I know her entire on court persona is rise above it and play through.

But this isn’t college. Might only be one year of experience, but she’s both the most respected vet on that team and (usually) the strongest woman on the court. She needs to start rattling some teeth.

‘You can take cheap shots and hard fouls all you want, but just know it’s coming back to you in spades.’

If by "rattling some teeth" you mean that Aliyah needs to stand up for herself, then I agree. She can't let the vets continue to bully her.

If by "rattling some teeth" you mean that Aliyah needs to be an enforcer for her teammates, then I vehemently disagree. That's not her job. Nobody on that team (not even her head coach) came to her defense when Jonquel Jones and Alyssa Thomas were busting her chops a few days ago, so I wouldn't expect her to take on a role for them that no one else is willing to take on for her. There are no children on that team. These are grown women. Most of those women aren't considered "small" (maybe Kelsey Mitchell and Erica Wheeler are, but I doubt people have them in mind when it comes to the Aliyah Boston "enforcer" talk). They can fight their own battles until they've come together enough as a TEAM to want to stand up for each other.

Look at the Aces. They have each others' backs because they actually like each other and are willing to fight for each other. The Fever players are not close like that (and probably don't like each other enough at this point in the season), and I don't think anyone should expect them to fight for each other unless/until they've built up enough trust and chemistry to want to protect one another. They may never get to that point this season. It's not an overnight process (if it happens at all).

 

[Aluminny69]

The Fever played their best defense of the season yesterday. With that they still almost snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. A last second missed foul shot was the margin of victory. Their schedule thus far has been brutal. They will soon get some time to regroup. When is Fagbenle coming back?

 

[JellyBean]

Looks like the Fever are starting to figure things out. Each game they get better and better.

 

[willtalk]

If by "rattling some teeth" you mean that Aliyah needs to stand up for herself, then I agree. She can't let the vets continue to bully her.

If by "rattling some teeth" you mean that Aliyah needs to be an enforcer for her teammates, then I vehemently disagree. That's not her job. Nobody on that team (not even her head coach) came to her defense when Jonquel Jones and Alyssa Thomas were busting her chops a few days ago, so I wouldn't expect her to take on a role for them that no one else is willing to take on for her. There are no children on that team. These are grown women. Most of those women aren't considered "small" (maybe Kelsey Mitchell and Erica Wheeler are, but I doubt people have them in mind when it comes to the Aliyah Boston "enforcer" talk). They can fight their own battles until they've come together enough as a TEAM to want to stand up for each other.

Look at the Aces. They have each others' backs because they actually like each other and are willing to fight for each other. The Fever players are not close like that (and probably don't like each other enough at this point in the season), and I don't think anyone should expect them to fight for each other unless/until they've built up enough trust and chemistry to want to protect one another. They may never get to that point this season. It's not an overnight process (if it happens at all).

Its not a matter of liking each other. You should watch the NBA and you will see the difference between the leagues and why one is successful and the other struggles. Basketball is not about liking, but playing as a team. Its a business and not a social coffee clutch with your girlfriends. The WNBA has long lacked professionalism and that has hurt them in multiple ways. The league has been run like a " Mom and Pop" store" but without the "Pop". It is personified by the total lack of professionalism by the behavior of the announcers of most of their games.

 

[WBBTakeover]

Its not a matter of liking each other. You should watch the NBA and you will see the difference between the leagues and why one is successful and the other struggles. Basketball is not about liking, but playing as a team. Its a business and not a social coffee clutch with your girlfriends. The WNBA has long lacked professionalism and that has hurt them in multiple ways. The league has been run like a " Mom and Pop" store" but without the "Pop". It is personified by the total lack of professionalism by the behavior of the announcers of most of their games.

I DO watch the NBA, thank you very much.

The NBA is not the model sports league for the WNBA to follow. And what's missing from the discussion is that people will react to the two leagues differently because of who dominates each league. The NBA players do not have to deal with the constant misogynoir that the WNBA, as a whole, has to face despite the NBA having far more repugnant individuals. When's the last time a WNBA player was caught waving a loaded handgun in a night club? When's the last time a WNBA player had to undergo constant psychiatric evaluation because she couldn't stop assaulting teammates and opponents alike? When's the last time you saw a "Malice at the Palace" event in the W? You want the WNBA to model THAT?

Nope--I'll gladly pass.

 

[UConn990411]

I DO watch the NBA, thank you very much.

The NBA is not the model sports league for the WNBA to follow. And what's missing from the discussion is that people will react to the two leagues differently because of who dominates each league. The NBA players do not have to deal with the constant misogynoir that the WNBA, as a whole, has to face despite the NBA having far more repugnant individuals. When's the last time a WNBA player was caught waving a loaded handgun in a night club? When's the last time a WNBA player had to undergo constant psychiatric evaluation because she couldn't stop assaulting teammates and opponents alike? When's the last time you saw a "Malice at the Palace" event in the W? You want the WNBA to model THAT?

Nope--I'll gladly pass.

Yikes, this is a bad take.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of the NBA, but pointing to an incident from two decades ago and cherry-picking two out of the 400+ players ain’t it. Should I assume all WNBA players are bad people because Riquna Williams played in the league?

As someone who’s followed the WNBA closely for more than 20 years, it’s gotten pretty hard to defend the league and the constant antagonism of the players. It’s just weird at this point.

 

[WBBTakeover]

Yikes, this is a bad take.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of the NBA, but pointing to an incident from two decades ago and cherry-picking two out of the 400+ players ain’t it. Should I assume all WNBA players are bad people because Riquna Williams played in the league?

As someone who’s followed the WNBA closely for more than 20 years, it’s gotten pretty hard to defend the league and the constant antagonism of the players. It’s just weird at this point.

How is it a bad take?

The NBA has had an image problem for DECADES. While it's improved somewhat, it's still an issue. You have players who are getting arrested due to domestic violence. You have players who sit out games regularly despite not having any injury issues. You have players playing for underperforming teams who get into public verbal spats with their coaches (the same coaches they supposedly advocate for the hiring of). You have players who say just about anything on social media because they've deemed themselves the authoritative voice on issues that don't even concern them (that's what happens when people place too much stock into the opinions of individuals who have 1-2 years of college experience). This is not "cherry-picking two out of 400+ players". This is a culture that has been allowed to fester because a few hundred grown men won the genetics lottery and people act as if they have to see them play at all costs.

The WNBA has its faults, but making the claim that the league should be more like the NBA--as if the NBA is somehow the authority on how a professional league should be run and that its players are on a moral highground--is the only bad take here.

 

[UConn990411]

How is it a bad take?

The NBA has had an image problem for DECADES. While it's improved somewhat, it's still an issue. You have players who are getting arrested due to domestic violence. You have players who sit out games regularly despite not having any injury issues. You have players playing for underperforming teams who get into public verbal spats with their coaches (the same coaches they supposedly advocate for the hiring of). You have players who say just about anything on social media because they've deemed themselves the authoritative voice on issues that don't even concern them (that's what happens when people place too much stock into the opinions of individuals who have 1-2 years of college experience). This is not "cherry-picking two out of 400+ players". This is a culture that has been allowed to fester because a few hundred grown men won the genetics lottery and people act as if they have to see them play at all costs.

The WNBA has its faults, but making the claim that the league should be more like the NBA--as if the NBA is somehow the authority on how a professional league should be run and that its players are on a moral highground--is the only bad take here.

What high-profile league doesn’t have image problems?

The NFL has been riddled with far more scandals lately, the MLB is notorious for different types of cheating, etc. The only leagues without an image issue are the ones without any image at all.

The NBA’s image was a much bigger problem 10-15 years ago, but you seem to be conflating your personal grievances with public perception.

 

[WBBTakeover]

What high-profile league doesn’t have image problems?

The NFL has been riddled with far more scandals lately, the MLB is notorious for different types of cheating, etc. The only leagues without an image issue are the ones without any image at all.

The NBA’s image was a much bigger problem 10-15 years ago, but you seem to be conflating your personal grievances with public perception.

In other words, you're agreeing with me that the NBA has an image problem. I never said that other leagues (specifically the NFL and MLB) didn't have one. I just said that the NBA should not be upheld as the moral authority over the WNBA (the other leagues were not mentioned by the poster who responded to me originally).

Now, what is it about the WNBA and its image that is so egregious that you felt the need to respond to me?

 

[nwhoopfan]

The NBA has had an image problem for DECADES. While it's improved somewhat, it's still an issue. You have players who are getting arrested due to domestic violence. You have players who sit out games regularly despite not having any injury issues. You have players playing for underperforming teams who get into public verbal spats with their coaches (the same coaches they supposedly advocate for the hiring of). You have players who say just about anything on social media because they've deemed themselves the authoritative voice on issues that don't even concern them (that's what happens when people place too much stock into the opinions of individuals who have 1-2 years of college experience).

The WNBA has also had domestic violence issues.

 

[WBBTakeover]

The WNBA has also had domestic violence issues.

I'm aware, hence this statement:

The WNBA has its faults

I'm waiting to see why people are so adamant about the WNBA needing to be more like the NBA.

 

[UConn990411]

I'm aware, hence this statement:


I'm waiting to see why people are so adamant about the WNBA needing to be more like the NBA.

I didn’t make that initial comment re: the WNBA needing to model itself after the NBA.

But if I had to guess why that suggestion was made:

• The NBA is the second most profitable league in the country.
• NBA players are among the most recognizable and make the most money on average. Their players also have some of the best benefits and are taken care of after retirement better than any other league.
• Basketball has become one of the most popular sports on the planet largely because of the NBA/NBA players - and as such, the best players in the world strive to play in the NBA.
• They have a sustainable model that’s most likely going to translate into the new era where streaming networks take over from cable/satellite.
• Like the WNBA, the NBA started with a smaller number of teams in core markets and grew organically over the years (hence it being a good model to follow).

 

[WBBTakeover]

I didn’t make that initial comment re: the WNBA needing to model itself after the NBA.

But if I had to guess why that suggestion was made:

• The NBA is the second most profitable league in the country.
• NBA players are among the most recognizable and make the most money on average. Their players also have some of the best benefits and are taken care of after retirement better than any other league.
• Basketball has become one of the most popular sports on the planet largely because of the NBA/NBA players - and as such, the best players in the world strive to play in the NBA.
• They have a sustainable model that’s most likely going to translate into the new era where streaming networks take over from cable/satellite.
• Like the WNBA, the NBA started with a smaller number of teams in core markets and grew organically over the years (hence it being a good model to follow).

The statement was made in the context of WNBA players supposedly not playing as a team while NBA players supposedly do.

Now, based on your 20+ years of watching the WNBA, what about the WNBA players' play suggests that they aren't team players and why would they need to follow the NBA as a guide? I'd like specific examples if you have them.

 

[cancontent]

I didn’t make that initial comment re: the WNBA needing to model itself after the NBA.

But if I had to guess why that suggestion was made:

• The NBA is the second most profitable league in the country.
• NBA players are among the most recognizable and make the most money on average. Their players also have some of the best benefits and are taken care of after retirement better than any other league.
• Basketball has become one of the most popular sports on the planet largely because of the NBA/NBA players - and as such, the best players in the world strive to play in the NBA.
• They have a sustainable model that’s most likely going to translate into the new era where streaming networks take over from cable/satellite.
• Like the WNBA, the NBA started with a smaller number of teams in core markets and grew organically over the years (hence it being a good model to follow).

To piggy back on this:

- the league also developed a strong marketing plan that took time to evolve.

- the players were able to negotiate terms in their collective agreement which took decades to get to the point it is now.

- the NBA is in it's 77th season, while the WNBA is in it's 27th.

The growth takes time. The WNBA barely had a marketing team when the current commissioner took over. In roads are happening. Hopefully the next collective bargaining agreement provides some more revenue streams for the players.