Inconsistent Refs ?? | The Boneyard

Inconsistent Refs ??

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It's the thing that keeps me from watching many women's games. The calls they make are often inconceivable against all teams. I think the refs in the women's game have limited understanding of the flow of the game. Remind me of bad rec league refs. Has been a major issue for years IMHO
 

pap49cba

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Icebear

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The officiating yesterday was a travesty. I am not sure this crew received the points of emphasis or misunderstood it as saying muggings were OK but defending with you feet and your body is not.
 

UcMiami

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I think it is a legitimate concern (though using coach JPM as the spokeswoman for the issue is probably not the best strategy.) They have decided to 'emphasize' hand checking on the perimeter but ... the consistency, and the lack of any sensibility to the 'spirit' of the rule is silly. And some of the refs are just BAD. I thought last nights Uconn game was horrible (as did both coaches!) The two guys had no clue what they were doing. The older guy was particularly inept. Supposedly in one of the earlier games yesterday the refs didn't know whether the women's game had a '10 second' call (they got it wrong!)
This has always been the case in the women's game and while the majority of games do not come down to officiating often the best games do. And it is not just on the refs - coaching and players make it harder on the refs, too.
And the emphasis that gets added each year compounds the problem early. And the last few years it has been throwing off the balance - the perimeter is any contact is a foul, the interior pretty much anything goes.
 
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The foul called on Stewart when the girl from the other team dove into Stewart's legs when the were both going for a loose ball, was completely ridiculous... I though Geno was going to get thrown out. You could hear cursing on over the casters mic....
 
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The officiating is a joke, and the men's game is not much better. Read the rules and enforce them. Screw this 'points of emphasis" junk, as it creates ticky-tack fouls in one part of the court while full-out assault is allowed in another. Contact shall not create an advantage. Period.
 

ThisJustIn

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The officiating is a joke, and the men's game is not much better.

Agree - it's been an ongoing issue that no one seems to want to put the money into addressing (I'm looking at you, Conferences).

That being said, the refs have nothing to do with the Points of Emphasis handed down by the Committee. That's all about reacting to the desire to make the game "more attractive" by making it "elegant" "fluid" "not mugging" and "higher scoring."
 
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One big problem is that 99% of male refs want to ref men's games. Most of the male refs on the women's side are those who weren't good enough to draw interest from any of the men leagues/assignors. And unfortunately the pool of women interested in reffing as a full-time career is not very large.
 

RadyLady

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ThisJustIn said:
The officiating is a joke, and the men's game is not much better.

Agree - it's been an ongoing issue that no one seems to want to put the money into addressing (I'm looking at you, Conferences).

That being said, the refs have nothing to do with the Points of Emphasis handed down by the Committee. That's all about reacting to the desire to make the game "more attractive" by making it "elegant" "fluid" "not mugging" and "higher scoring."

wait wait wait! I was sipping tea as I read this and didn't have my pinky extended...

ok, go!
 
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carl adamec @CarlAdamec · 12h 12 hours ago
Next time you see the names Joe Cunningham and/or Kevin Pethel on a box score -- panic.

carl adamec ‏@CarlAdamec
They just called a foul on Sadie Edwards.

carl adamec @CarlAdamec · 13h 13 hours ago
Sadie is with Polly and Tierney on the bench

carl adamec @CarlAdamec · 13h 13 hours ago
When Sue Blauch is the best official on the floor by far, you know you're in trouble. These 2 guys are clowns.

Last year's UConn games were, more often than not, officiated by competent refs, those I considered to be the best around- DEE KANTNER (the best), Lisa Mattingly, Denise Brooks, Fatou Cissoko-Stephens and Maj Forsberg. Especially critical in the BIG games. I have not seen even one of them this year refereeing a single UConn game. Arouses my paranoia and makes me wonder if the horrible appointment of UConn nemesis and lousy referee June Courteau as NCAA coordinator of officiating is behind the endless stream of crappy officials UConn wbb has been subjected to this year. If so, it's gonna take a lot more than CD and a tech to hold Luca Brasi back.
 
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The foul called on Stewart when the girl from the other team dove into Stewart's legs when the were both going for a loose ball, was completely ridiculous... I though Geno was going to get thrown out. You could hear cursing on over the casters mic....

Equally ridiculous, but not as dangerous, was the offensive player pulling on Stewies arm and they called the foul on Stewie. There have been way too many fouls called when no foul was committed, no calls on obvious fouls, and calling fouls on the wrong player.
 
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Equally ridiculous, but not as dangerous, was the offensive player pulling on Stewies arm and they called the foul on Stewie. There have been way too many fouls called when no foul was committed, no calls on obvious fouls, and calling fouls on the wrong player.
The official who called that foul on Stewie was behind the play and out of position to make the call. He thought Stewie was clearing out the defender but, in fact, Stewie was being pulled out of the play by the defender.
 
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Rarely talked about but also a 'point of emphasis' was stopping physical displacement in the paint. Last night a saw a GB player literally put her shoulder into Stewart and push her across the key. And that wasn't the only time that happened.

Last night's game went beyond bad calls though. The officials seemed to take it on themselves to handicap UConn by letting GB use chippy shoves and grabs in the paint during the entire first half. It only emboldened GB into even more blatant tactics. Then they must have talked during the halftime and came out and called everything, turning the second half into a free throw parade.

At least in the men's game they show replays of bad calls and embarrass incompetent refs. In women's basketball if there is a close foul call we see a layup or a 3 point shot from 2 or 3 possessions back and the incompetence is hidden. It's like they feel it's impolite to point out the official's mistakes. A lot of that is, IMO, due to the gambling in the men's game, where officials can decide a spread by how they call a game.
 
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I feel that the casters give the zebras a pass with the exception of Meghan and Kara Lawson, when she was doing color.

I can understand missing a call on a bang-bang play in real time or even one when, from the refs position, it appears to that official to be a violation, but this belief that the game is called differently for UCONN isn't a recent occurrence. In 1995, during the NCAA Final, after Jen and Rebecca were whistled for 3 touch fouls apiece in the first half and Kara had two, Dee Kantner was charged by screaming fans as she left the court. Truly, she was fortunate that they couldn't get to her. She looked stunned by the energy and antipathy, and, for whatever reason, the second half was much different, although play did not look significantly different than the first half.

I love the game, have played and coached it, and if any player commits a foul or violation, I have no problem with a call. I also don't have a problem if the game is called consistently, but too many of our games have two sets of rules.

Or, maybe I'm simply a whiner.
 
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Let's call it what it is.

A TRAVESTRY.

Without itemizing the ocean of bad calls and NON calls we've been exposed to, allow me to point to 2 calls on Stewart yesterday that were corrupt. The 1st was an attempt to rip her arm out of the socket and the 2nd was a hit delivered on her that would have drawn raves from the Patriots defensive coordinator.

I both cases, STEWART was whistled for the foul.

Officiating mistakes are part of sports and to expect perfection is unrealistic, but blatant incompetence, or worse, should not be tolerated.
 
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The foul called on Stewart when the girl from the other team dove into Stewart's legs when the were both going for a loose ball, was completely ridiculous... I though Geno was going to get thrown out. You could hear cursing on over the casters mic....
Hard to think of a sport that wouldn't have been a foul in...
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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Last year's UConn games were, more often than not, officiated by competent refs, those I considered to be the best around- DEE KANTNER (the best), Lisa Mattingly, Denise Brooks, Fatou Cissoko-Stephens and Maj Forsberg. Especially critical in the BIG games. I have not seen even one of them this year refereeing a single UConn game. Arouses my paranoia and makes me wonder if the horrible appointment of UConn nemesis and lousy referee June Courteau as NCAA coordinator of officiating is behind the endless stream of crappy officials UConn wbb has been subjected to this year. If so, it's gonna take a lot more than CD and a tech to hold Luca Brasi back.
The NCAA coordinator of officials does not assign officials, conferences have folks that do that. Specifically, the conference of the home team where applicable, and in independent tournaments, it is apparently the group running the tournament's choice. It should be noted that the American has a new coordinator of officials, FWIW.

I like your list of good refs, although I do know that Maj is not universally popular.
 

meyers7

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pap49cba said:
carl adamec @CarlAdamec · 12h 12 hours ago Next time you see the names Joe Cunningham and/or Kevin Pethel on a box score -- panic. carl adamec ‏@CarlAdamec They just called a foul on Sadie Edwards. carl adamec @CarlAdamec · 13h 13 hours ago Sadie is with Polly and Tierney on the bench carl adamec @CarlAdamec · 13h 13 hours ago When Sue Blauch is the best official on the floor by far, you know you're in trouble. These 2 guys are clowns.
I don't know if Carl has that much room to talk.
 
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Officiating has always been inconsistent. Last season when they had the rules changes for obstruction fouls on players with the ball (path to the basket fouls) - really there was no change, it was just that they were going to start calling the fouls that should have been called for years, but wasn't - they made the effort to visit many programs across the nation during the pre-season and give demonstrations/presentations on what would be called and what would not be.

Then the season begins, and fouls are called all over the place, and the flow of games were adversely impacted. Then I noticed as the seasons progressed, the foul calls got lesser and lesser. Just for the SEC, by the time we had our conference tourney, the physicality was ramped up considerably. Then the NCAAT began, and it was as if the new enforcement of the rules were forgotten.

I remember watching UNC's 1st-round NCAAT game against UT-Martin. The UT-Martin Skyhawks had nowhere near the size nor talent of the Tarheels, but they jumped up to a huge 1st half lead with savy perimeter defense and dead-eye long-range jump-shooting. They were shooting the Tarheels out of their own building...

Then in the 2nd half, the entire biology of the game changed. UNC came out and started running over the littler Skyhawk players. They became very physical, and UT-Martin players were flying to the floor left and right. It totally changed the tempo and momentum of the game to UNC's side, and stunned the Skyhawk players into rushing and missing their shots. And the officials just let UNC get away with it, and swallowed their whistles. For most of the NCAAT games I watched, one couldn't notice that there was any more-enforced officiating of fouls against players moving with the ball, unless they were told about it beforehand...

Oh man. In every way they could get away with it, that game was STOLEN from UT Martin. UNC was down 15 at half and PRESTO- there was some cockamamie BS about a little buzz emanating from the scoreboard that needed to be fixed, delaying the start of the second half for almost 20 minutes. No doubt, in my mind, bush-league gamesmanship to get into the Skyhawks' heads. Then a terrible technical was called when Deshields did her best John Barrymore- another big momentum changer. Whether the refs were complicit in this larceny, I'm not saying). Then with less than 20 seconds left in the game, UT calls time, down 2 pts. with possession. UT is huddling at their bench and I'll never forget what happened next- the public address announcer declares there is a dangerous person loose on campus and nobody will be allowed to leave the arena following the game. It turned out to be a false alarm! Can you imagine what a distraction and break of focus that must have been for the UT players and coaches? UNC officials surely could have waited 20 seconds more until the game ended but chose to make the announcement exactly at that critical moment. Why? I was certain at the time and still am today that it was the worst example of dirty low gamesmanship, poor sportsmanship and ZERO class in doing everything and anything they could to win a game. But I guess after 18 years of academic cheating there is nothing that university will not do for a win. UNC is despicable.
 

Geno-ista

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I think it is a legitimate concern (though using coach JPM as the spokeswoman for the issue is probably not the best strategy.) They have decided to 'emphasize' hand checking on the perimeter but ... the consistency, and the lack of any sensibility to the 'spirit' of the rule is silly. And some of the refs are just BAD. I thought last nights Uconn game was horrible (as did both coaches!) The two guys had no clue what they were doing. The older guy was particularly inept. Supposedly in one of the earlier games yesterday the refs didn't know whether the women's game had a '10 second' call (they got it wrong!)
This has always been the case in the women's game and while the majority of games do not come down to officiating often the best games do. And it is not just on the refs - coaching and players make it harder on the refs, too.
And the emphasis that gets added each year compounds the problem early. And the last few years it has been throwing off the balance - the perimeter is any contact is a foul, the interior pretty much anything goes.
Hit the nail on the head!!! Three officials on the court- and 25-30% of the time the closest official that also has the best view, is making no call, and other zebras are coming in from out of the camera view making calls. And hoe three officials can make the wrong calls with the half circle under the hoop- drives me nuts. Other officials that saw it right are afraid to correct horrendous calls. They ruin games and dictate games-
 
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The NCAA coordinator of officials does not assign officials, conferences have folks that do that. Specifically, the conference of the home team where applicable, and in independent tournaments, it is apparently the group running the tournament's choice. It should be noted that the American has a new coordinator of officials, FWIW.


True, the assignor for the home team's conference often assigns the refs - but not always. That can be one of the points of negotiation when signing a contract for an ooc game/series. Sometimes the assigning is reversed, i.e. the away team gets to have its assignor pick the refs, and sometimes the assigning is done by an agreed-upon neutral conference assignor. As you say, it is never the responsibility of the NCAA ref coordinator.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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True, the assignor for the home team's conference often assigns the refs - but not always. That can be one of the points of negotiation when signing a contract for an ooc game/series. Sometimes the assigning is reversed, i.e. the away team gets to have its assignor pick the refs, and sometimes the assigning is done by an agreed-upon neutral conference assignor. As you say, it is never the responsibility of the NCAA ref coordinator.
Rutgers was victimized a few years back when Stanford picked the refs for a season opener at the RAC - Melissa Barlow was one of them, and called the reach in on Prince in front of the Rutgers bench with less than a second remaining and RU up by 1. It was a foul, but swallow the whistle, please. On the other hand, I have been tracking where various refs work over the last few years, and have not seen many, if any, situations of unexpected assignments such as that one was. This year I am concentrating on Pac ref's and I am pretty certain that it is not a negotiable item with Pac teams at home, except of course the WNIT. Even in football, the Pac is one of the few conferences where all home games are worked by Pac refs.
 

ThisJustIn

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It was a foul, but swallow the whistle, please

I call bull patties. If it's a foul it's a foul. Folks always talk about "the game shouldn't be decided by the refs," conveniently ignoring the fact that it is the players who put in the refs hands. Prince blew it and was caught. Stanford benefited from her foolishness. If it had been the other way around, a Stanford player had reached in and it HANDn't been called, RU fans would have been peeved....
 
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