In defense of the refs ...

[cbraarj]

Major D-1 basketball referees make approximately $2,000 a game but pay own expenses in regular season. During NCAA Tournament travel and hotel are paid by NCAA.

 

[rugbymate]

Want to bet? Fans don't believe that they should or do. But once you see an action--you recognize that action as it is happening--anticipation.

I think donalddoowop said a "good ref" doesn't anticipate a foul and I agree....having done a fair amount of reffing ( paid the grad school bills), we were trained to watch the whole play and not just the contact and particularly potential contact...sure if there is a one on one fast break you naturally are looking to see how clean the play is but in half court sets there are so many things to look for that you really have to react to what happens and not what you think might happen

 

[donalddoowop]

Want to bet? Fans don't believe that they should or do. But once you see an action--you recognize that action as it is happening--anticipation.

Anticipate a foul and then it does not occur, because no contact was made. Do that enough times and the head of officials will be all over you and assign you fewer games if any at all, and the coaches will stop hiring you. I've seen it at officials meetings.

 

[rugbymate]

If you played basketball over the years and played in highly competitive games like these 2 teams played Sunday. The play with Napheesa and Mabry was just their competitive juices flowing. Normally a player from the opposing team doesnt just take the ball from an opponent hands and the way Mabry reacted is a natural reaction at times. There was no type of foul at all! As far as being physical in the post. there will always be pushing, holding, forearms in the back and elbows in the stomache or chest to box out. When an offensive player cuts through the lane and the defensive player steps into them then a foul should be called. But when you are playing in a game and you can get away with it. A player will do it until they get called for it. It is part of the game. I would rather have played or coached in Sundays game because the refs allowed them to play.

If you played basketball over the years and played in highly competitive games like these 2 teams played Sunday. The play with Napheesa and Mabry was just their competitive juices flowing. Normally a player from the opposing team doesnt just take the ball from an opponent hands and the way Mabry reacted is a natural reaction at times. There was no type of foul at all! As far as being physical in the post. there will always be pushing, holding, forearms in the back and elbows in the stomache or chest to box out. When an offensive player cuts through the lane and the defensive player steps into them then a foul should be called. But when you are playing in a game and you can get away with it. A player will do it until they get called for it. It is part of the game. I would rather have played or coached in Sundays game because the refs allowed them to play.

As to Mabry holding the ball after a violation....the rules are very explicit and it is grounds for a technical and she was probably on the edge of getting one. Although, good judgement by the ref for the non-call. Also, had Collier made contact trying to retrieve the dead ball from Maybry's hands she could have been whistled for an unsportsmanship foul which is similar to a technical but doesn't count as a personal foul. She also has to be careful of the hand clapping as that may be viewed as taunting...also a foul. A lot of stuff was going on in that sequence and the ref did a good job of letting it go.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I think donalddoowop said a "good ref" doesn't anticipate a foul and I agree....having done a fair amount of reffing ( paid the grad school bills), we were trained to watch the whole play and not just the contact and particularly potential contact...sure if there is a one on one fast break you naturally are looking to see how clean the play is but in half court sets there are so many things to look for that you really have to react to what happens and not what you think might happen

This is pure argumentative --I know--and I accept your level of "experience" and veracity. However, in my experience, training prepares you to do your job perfectly; the actuality of doing the job isn't always handled with perfection. I.E. we train to be the best but accept less.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Anticipate a foul and then it does not occur, because no contact was made. Do that enough times and the head of officials will be all over you and assign you fewer games if any at all, and the coaches will stop hiring you. I've seen it at officials meetings.

No doubt there are bad refs many are usually seen early on, those seen later maybe criminal. I have no reason to doubt what you say But:

It isn't easy to get Refs to do the travel, take the personal insults, and be away from home more night/days than desired. Start firing for perceived injustices and soon you have nothing except really bad refs.\

To determine that a ref "anticipated" the call or didn't is not a certainty or just a judgement call, most calls made by a ref are based on judgement and experience and yes some anticipation. How does the brain make split second judgements that fans expect 100 percent correctness in those judgement? Experience, expectation (anticipation), and knowledge (which usually comes from experience). The brain is excellent but all coaches don't have the same arrangement of cells or numbers. Humans are a fallible species, perfection isn't in them--but ability to strive for perfection is.

 

[HuskylnSC]

You are telling me watching my TV I don't get a better view of the nuances of the refs and the game? Most of the seats I had recently were so high the arena required an Air Traffic Controller for aircraft to avoid hitting my head when I stood up.
Youse guy that sit next to the guy on the microphone--may see more in the middle of the court, but I see it where the action really is--then too I don't have actual play back set in my brain, no rewind, no slow-mo, would be nice but don't have it.

Yup. And you're right. Most of the truth cannot be sen unless you are within 10-15 feet of the action with a good angle on the action. Most fans, coaches and commentators don't know what actually happened until they get the slo-mo from the best angle.

 

[wallman]

In the NBA my ref buddy said that if they make the same mistake over and over on their evaluations then they can kiss any end of season games goodbye. Not sure how they evaluate for WCBB but I have seen the same refs make the same errors over the years in many different games.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

. . . It appeared that the biggest complaint was that Arike Ogunbowale's charging foul against Lou was bogus and that Lou sold it. . . .

I remember in a post last year I remarked on how Lou always snaps her head back in those
charge situations. Of course I don't know anything for a fact, but in my opinion that head
motion is an affectation and she does it to try and sell the charge. The excess of drama just
looks a little bogus to me.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I have a hard time not thinking Rutgers wasn't physical---I think of the Prince play on Maya where she grabbed Mays arm and Maya was in the air and yanked Maya to the floor==HARD. Their post play was always physical, so physical Geno put Gardler in an RU Game to counter the physical play (Megan G was highly physical).

no worse than any other school that plays basketball... its just something else about Rutgers! we're talking about KLS getting "mugged" and Rutgers is nowhere on the schedule

 

[DaddyChoc]

As to Mabry holding the ball after a violation....the rules are very explicit and it is grounds for a technical and she was probably on the edge of getting one. Although, good judgement by the ref for the non-call. Also, had Collier made contact trying to retrieve the dead ball from Maybry's hands she could have been whistled for an unsportsmanship foul which is similar to a technical but doesn't count as a personal foul. She also has to be careful of the hand clapping as that may be viewed as taunting...also a foul. A lot of stuff was going on in that sequence and the ref did a good job of letting it go.

well said... Collier started it

 

[HuskylnSC]

I remember in a post last year I remarked on how Lou always snaps her head back in those
charge situations. Of course I don't know anything for a fact, but in my opinion that head
motion is an affectation and she does it to try and sell the charge. The excess of drama just
looks a little bogus to me.

I think she learned that from Shabazz. Where it also looked over the top