In DEFENSE of Liv

[Stymie]

Let’s give the Liv hate a break, it’s on every thread. It is what it is. She’s become an excellent defensive player and her offense we all agree could be better. There will be other options next year to help her out and hopefully help her improve. I’ve just had enough with the hate she gets. She’s been a key factor in some games when everyone else has gone away. And yeah okay it’s the Big East, well we still needed her help to win those games.
And to those saying she’s going to get replaced. That is so off and makes me question if you even follow this program. Could she potentially come off the bench Sure. Is she likely to still have major contributions (defensive or otherwise) Yep. Geno is not going to toss this kid to the side, sorry not how it works.

Definitely not “hating”.
Needs to up her offensive game.
8-10 ft jumper and layups.
That’s all

 

[Heytherego]

Definitely not “hating”.
Needs to up her offensive game.
8-10 ft jumper and layups.
That’s all

Yeah I think we all agree with that, but I also think a lot of users are crossing a line with the attacks on her and her game. Not everyone, but enough users.

 

[Tonyc]

You now what??? How would you like to be Olivas dad and reading this board???? How would you like it if your daughter was Oliva and you were reading this board. Thats all Im gonna say.

 

[MSGRET]

Yeah I think we all agree with that, but I also think a lot of users are crossing a line with the attacks on her and her game. Not everyone, but enough users.

If there were users "crossing a line", I believe that the MODS would have either stated something to the perp's or deleted the posts. So if someone has a different opinion then yours is it "crossing a line"?

 

[LwrcasefaN]

These kids could go somewhere else and would be welcomed. You like UCONN? Guess how it became a powerhouse? These kids! Tone it down already. Geesh.

 

[huskeynut]

I too have a problem with the Olivia bashing. Some of these are the same posters who have complained for a while now the Liv is not big enough, not strong enough and not a banger down low. They want a big banger to control the area around the basket. Their thoughts on what a post should be does not mix with reality. UConn has never been know for banging posts. Lobo was really a 4. Wolters was a 5. The last big post was Steph. But she was not really a banger. She was a high post facilitator who could hit the 15+ foot jumper and also position herself down low and shoot with either hand. She also learned to position herself to box out and rebound well.

Liv is given a lot and made good strides. She will not satisfy a lot of posters even if she does improve. She is and will be integral to UConn's success.

 

[BrianUC]

Olivia peaked offensively earlier in the year but was an effective intimidator and rebounder in the playoffs. Against Iowa and Baylor combined she led the team in rebounds and blocks and even had more assists than Paige. For whatever reason, confidence or maybe injury (??) she had her worst game of the year against Arizona. She missed 7 shots. Well, Paige missed 8 and Christyn 10, and with overall 36% FG percentage and only 11 team assists, no one looked good that day. I look forward to Olivia being a vital part of next year's team.

 

[cbraarj]

I agree with most of the ONO critiques regarding her offense, BUT, who will guard Boston when we play SC with 6'4" Amilere next to here? Regarding Stanford, who guards 6'4" Brink and 6'5" Precktel? Our new transfer, Dorka? Maybe but not known for her defense. Most of season, we can go with 4 guards but against top 10 teams, ONO will be out there. With 4 great shooters, predict ONO's lack of offense will not be a major factor.
As a footnote, within the league, ONO was typically dominate on both offense and defense. Did not miss many layups against the 6'1" Big East centers.

Last 31/2 minutes in FF she was sitting on the bench.

 

[Heytherego]

If there were users "crossing a line", I believe that the MODS would have either stated something to the perp's or deleted the posts. So if someone has a different opinion then yours is it "crossing a line"?

If you honestly think everything that has been said about Olivia is fine and if that was your daughter you’d be okay with it then that’s on you, not on me.
I also already replied to you on the other thread and made my point pretty clear. This will be my last reply to you because it’s clear you’re looking to instigate.

 

[Cuango]

She is an offensive liability that moving forward will not be tolerated.

We’ve had many offensively limited players over the years. Happily, the decision on whether Liv will play or start is going to be made by Geno. I’m going to bet you are not going to like that decision. However, I think most of the rest of us will be just fine with it. Especially, when we’re watching Liv cut down the nets after next year’s title game!

 

[my2cents]

We’ve had many offensively limited players over the years. Happily, the decision on whether Liv will play or start is going to be made by Geno. I’m going to bet you are not going to like that decision. However, I think most of the rest of us will be just fine with it. Especially, when we’re watching Liv cut down the nets after next year’s title game!

Geno was the one who made the statement regarding Ono, "If she doesn't improve, she will have a difficult senior season". Her inconsistent performances, especially in big games, will mean, that GENO ( not me, lol) will put her on the bench.
It should be noted, that in 20 minutes against Az, she took the same amount of shots per minute, that Paige took. Its a shame she didn't make any of them.

 

[Twolf]

Yeah I think we all agree with that, but I also think a lot of users are crossing a line with the attacks on her and her game. Not everyone, but enough users.

Whether it’s a coach’s public comments, a fan from the stands, or on social media I always thought it crossed the line if the comments became personal. If it was just about basketball most players and coaches have thick enough skin to let it roll off. That doesn’t mean you always liked it, but it goes with the territory if you play or work in front of the public. If it came from the coach you didn’t mind it if everyone was treated the same. Iirc, Geno’s most blunt public comments after the season were about his most talented player needing to make significant improvement both on and off the floor- that’s about as direct as he could be.

 

[msf22b]

You now what??? How would you like to be Olivas dad and reading this board???? How would you like it if your daughter was Oliva and you were reading this board. Thats all Im gonna say.

Tony

I don't believe that the thread in its entirety is particularly hateful.
I think Liv is the kind of human being that virtually everyone really likes.

But it's a pretty tough and competitive arena that the kids have chosen to play in.
And their performance is and will be evaluated..if not by us...there are other forums and media, some a lot nastier than the boneyard

Especially in this program, kids are expected to perform, to excel, to grow.
Liv said it herself...this is a tough place to play.

Liv may start...Caroline Doty started and she could hardly walk...But the question is...
Will she play important minutes?
Geno is certainly high on Aaliyah
And he's got a whole lot of prospective "trees" to choose from.

Liv's development has been a bit disappointing
And her performance in the Arizona game was subpar
She knows it...I'm sure there's no one more critical of her game than herself.
The question is: how will she react...what is she going to do about it?
She has a few months to put in a fix...Will she make the best use of the time?
She might have made a greater effort to get some of it done before...but that's water under the bridge.

There's going to be a fierce competition for minutes at the 5.
I can't begin to predict the outcome.
But if she falls by the wayside or winds up the leader of the bigs...
It won't be because of a general lack of affection from this forum

 

[AYusef]

That’s harsh. She’s the best passing big girl on the team. She’s a good screener. She’s a good outlet. She’s good in the high post. What she is not good at is free throws and being strong around the basket. Both weaknesses can be corrected.

She is not a offensive liability because of her passing out of the high post. She is a 6'5 post who does not like contact and cant finish in the paint, that's a problem. She rebounds and protects the rim, I liked her game against the bigs of Baylor she held her grown which was much needed against such an imposing team even though she scored very little.
However the debacle in the FF against a team that has no one that should be able to guard her was extremely disappointing. She deserves all the criticism she has received. This is UCONN not Appalachia St there is a standard here you signed on to. There is a ton of pressure on ONO going into her senior year, how she responds will probably be the most intriguing question for this team.

 

[Childhood]

She missed 7 shots. Well, Paige missed 8 and Christyn 10, and with overall 36% FG percentage and only 11 team assists, no one looked good that day. I look forward to Olivia being a vital part of next year's team.

Come on. There's BIG difference.
ONO: missed 7 shots, 1 Point
Paige: missed 8 shots, 18 Points
CW: missed 10 shots, 20 Points

 

[jazz]

she has under-performed. that is not bashing. it is just stating the obvious.

I have been saying all year that she struggles to finish around the rim. GA moved her out to the high post where she was more effective. Teams didnt guard her from there making her passes easier, although to be fair, she is a very good passer. She can't score consistently near the bucket or in the mid-range, although she has stretches where she does both. You just don't know if she will hold up against top level competition and that is a major worry.

For those who need collaboration from GA before you state your opinion: GA wouldn't have DJ coming on board and would have nothing but praise for Liv if he was satisfied with her game. Apparently GA could care less that Liv made AA and what the rest the coaches around the country think of Liv - as it should be.

 

[jaundicedeye]

When have you ever seen UConn not play defense? It was their offense, inconsistent, that hurt their chances to win the NC. Against Arizona 59 points, and against Baylor 69 points. It wasn't the defense. Also, Geno is a better coach than Brenda.

AZ played very good defense. I recall that UCONN scored more points against them than Stanford did, even with all theirs bigs. Stanford only managed to win by one point. Strong defense was the calling card for both AZ and Baylor all season. Geno, as well as any coach, knows what good defense can do.

 

[CocoHusky]

I agree with most of the ONO critiques regarding her offense, BUT, who will guard Boston when we play SC with 6'4" Amilere next to here? Regarding Stanford, who guards 6'4" Brink and 6'5" Precktel? Our new transfer, Dorka? Maybe but not known for her defense. Most of season, we can go with 4 guards but against top 10 teams, ONO will be out there. With 4 great shooters, predict ONO's lack of offense will not be a major factor.
As a footnote, within the league, ONO was typically dominate on both offense and defense. Did not miss many layups against the 6'1" Big East centers.

That last sentence is not correct. As I have mentioned before, during this past season ONO struggled against Seton Hall, Providence and Georgetown front lines with missed layups, foul trouble and getting moved off her position. A "dominant" BE players "should" be hands down BE first team and BE DPOY-she was not.

 

[Bald Husky]

I agree that the bashing of Liv is now out of control. I think we should forget about this and move on. Bottom line, Liv is a very good defensive player, has done very well against most teams, and not too bad against the good ones. Her problem is offence, we don't need a passing player consistency at the high post. Stymie got it right, learn to make lay ups, practice a baby hook, and develop a 15 ft jump shot ( not the 2 second release shot she has now). I don't know if she can do it, but lets wait and see what she has to offer in November. She knows by now where she needs to improve, lets give her the chance to show that she can.

 

[oldude]

Sometimes, when a player has a tough game, as Liv did vs AZ, it’s easy to get down on her. I try to look at Liv’s progression as a player, which has legitimately been improving ever since Jamelle joined the staff last season.

Some of the positives I’ve seen this season from Liv include better footwork, excellent passer, ability to use her left hand, catching the ball better and stronger, much better team and individual defender and very critically, less prone to pick up silly fouls.

The one area that I think Liv needs to improve on is simply to learn to play faster. She struggled against both AR and AZ because they were able to speed her up whenever she caught the ball in the post. AR turned her over. Conscious of turning the ball over, Liv rushed her shots against AZ and missed them.

Liv had a tough game vs AZ, but she also had a great game against Syracuse’s 6’7” Cardoso, who was giving everyone trouble by the end of the season. Yes, she misses layups. So does Aaliyah Boston, who missed the biggest shots of the season in SC’s losses to UConn & Stanford.

Bigs always take longer to develop. I have no doubt that Geno and Jamelle have given Liv their summer homework assignments and she will return to Storrs better, and perhaps a lot better, and that would truly be something to behold.

 

[CocoHusky]

I agree that the bashing of Liv is now out of control. I think we should forget about this and move on. Bottom line, Liv is a very good defensive player, has done very well against most teams, and not too bad against the good ones. Her problem is offence, we don't need a passing player consistency at the high post. Stymie got it right, learn to make lay ups, practice a baby hook, and develop a 15 ft jump shot ( not the 2 second release shot she has now). I don't know if she can do it, but lets wait and see what she has to offer in November. She knows by now where she needs to improve, lets give her the chance to show that she can.

The problem is many of us have been waiting since November of 2019.

 

[Kmoney]

Can be doesn't equal will be. CD has been working on her liabilities for 3 years, I have seen little progress on the items you brought up. I don't know why, maybe you do. That said, I have seen improvement in a number of areas which makes her a better player this year than last year.
I don't understand why comparing and contrasting any of our players to some is disrespectful on face value. I get it that some are disrespectful, they should be and are often called out for it. Many others are just posting opinions not bashing, but looking for hearty discussions. A good thing I think.

I mostly agree with you. There is nothing wrong with a constructive conversation. I just disagree with some of the immature comments on this thread. Anybody with one eye can see that Liv didn't play well against Arizona. There is no need to bury the young lady. Why not support her and wish her well? Next season when UConn wins the championship and Liv is crying tears of Joy, I will open an apology thread.

The best thing about losing is that it makes winning that much sweeter.

 

[Skeets]

You now what??? How would you like to be Olivas dad and reading this board???? How would you like it if your daughter was Oliva and you were reading this board. Thats all Im gonna say.

Tonyc, I said basically the same thing in another thread. Pointing out that Liv missed easy lay ups in the semi and that hurt UCONN is OK. But some comments go well beyond that. Harsh bordering on trashing. "Will not be tolerated" !! Really? That comes real close to hateful. CW, Nika, Anna all took a little bit of abuse on the BY, but nothing like what Liv is getting.

 

[oldude]

Some folks here on the BY have a tendency to make things too personal when it comes to the players. At the end of the day Liv doesn’t owe anything to any of us. Her responsibility is to her teammates, coaches, family and, most importantly, to herself. That’s quite a burden for any 20 year-old to bear, without shouldering the additional burden of the expectations of thousands of overzealous fans to boot.

 

[Littlemin]

Einstein’s definition of insanity comes into play here. Ono is a good player with strengths and flaws in her game. Uconn doesn’t beat Baylor without her dirty work. Her missed layups and Bueckers passivity, along with the team taking the opponent lightly, hurt against Arizona. And an aside, IMO and FWIW, if a coach has to get a team “ready to play” for a FF game, you are pretty much doomed from the start. That is where the loss of Muhl hurt BIG TIME.
Anyway, the abuse Ono has taken, along with that directed at Williams, Muhl and Makurat, reflects more on the posters than providing any real BB insight.

 

[oldhusky]

Geno was the one who made the statement regarding Ono, "If she doesn't improve, she will have a difficult senior season". Her inconsistent performances, especially in big games, will mean, that GENO ( not me, lol) will put her on the bench.
It should be noted, that in 20 minutes against Az, she took the same amount of shots per minute, that Paige took. Its a shame she didn't make any of them.

I think your comment about the last 20 minutes against Arizona is telling. It also raises a strategic question. Others have said that Liv can dominate inside against weak competition and I agree, but like others I think she can't do the same against top competition, and it is more than a bad game or two, there is an established relationship there.

So suppose Liv is doing fine against the Big East but now you are in the elite 8 or farther and playing a team with physical bigs that are good defenders. Do you bench a year long starter because you don't like her match-up in that game? Do you game-plan away from her offense and tell the team not to feed her down low, in essence give up on her offense but have her just concentrate on defense and rebounding? Do you start her but sub early and significantly reduce her minutes?

I think as a team we spend the season creating a well oiled machine to produce a high number of easy shots with largely the same strategy. I think it is frustrating to Geno that largely because of Liv, the year long strategy doesn't work against the great teams. It may be telling that in discussing Gorka he said Aaliyah might get the most touches down low next year, because she finishes well around the basket.

I think there is a middle ground here. Geno often tries to get his players to concentrate on what they do well, and eliminate the things they don't. That depends on the opposition. Instead of saying lets keep giving Liv the ball down low against a player like Boston or Brink expecting her to suddenly start making a high percentage of them, throw in the towel on that strategy. Don't give her the ball there against top defenders and tell her to kick it back out if she does get it.

But if Aaliyah or Gorka can score against top defenders down low, you can still pursue that, but tell Liv this game you job is rebounding and defense, and to her defense she has been ok against top competition there. But feeding her the ball as much as Paige against good bigs is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and probably a bad coaching decision as well, because that is asking someone to do something they cannot do well against that level of competition.

 

[CocoHusky]

Einstein’s definition of insanity comes into play here. Ono is a good player with strengths and flaws in her game. Uconn doesn’t beat Baylor without her dirty work. Her missed layups and Bueckers passivity, along with the team taking the opponent lightly, hurt against Arizona. And an aside, IMO and FWIW, if a coach has to get a team “ready to play” for a FF game, you are pretty much doomed from the start. That is where the loss of Muhl hurt BIG TIME.
Anyway, the abuse Ono has taken, along with that directed at Williams, Muhl and Makurat, reflects more on the posters than providing any real BB insight.

Muhl played 21 minutes in the Arizona game, the same amount of minutes as Liv and only slightly more impactful.

 

[my2cents]

I think your comment about the last 20 minutes against Arizona is telling. It also raises a strategic question. Others have said that Liv can dominate inside against weak competition and I agree, but like others I think she can't do the same against top competition, and it is more than a bad game or two, there is an established relationship there.

So suppose Liv is doing fine against the Big East but now you are in the elite 8 or farther and playing a team with physical bigs that are good defenders. Do you bench a year long starter because you don't like her match-up in that game? Do you game-plan away from her offense and tell the team not to feed her down low, in essence give up on her offense but have her just concentrate on defense and rebounding? Do you start her but sub early and significantly reduce her minutes?

I think as a team we spend the season creating a well oiled machine to produce a high number of easy shots with largely the same strategy. I think it is frustrating to Geno that largely because of Liv, the year long strategy doesn't work against the great teams. It may be telling that in discussing Gorka he said Aaliyah might get the most touches down low next year, because she finishes well around the basket.

I think there is a middle ground here. Geno often tries to get his players to concentrate on what they do well, and eliminate the things they don't. That depends on the opposition. Instead of saying lets keep giving Liv the ball down low against a player like Boston or Brink expecting her to suddenly start making a high percentage of them, throw in the towel on that strategy. Don't give her the ball there against top defenders and tell her to kick it back out if she does get it.

But if Aaliyah or Gorka can score against top defenders down low, you can still pursue that, but tell Liv this game you job is rebounding and defense, and to her defense she has been ok against top competition there. But feeding her the ball as much as Paige against good bigs is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and probably a bad coaching decision as well, because that is asking someone to do something they cannot do well against that level of competition.

You re making my point exactly.
My posts are nothing more than comments about the over all status of Uconn WBB, not based just on my observations, but Geno's comments and moves.
The two latest, bringing in a 6'4'' Dorka Juhasz...Why? What does she do for us? In commenting on that move is nothing more than reasonable observations, and nothing personal about another player.
Why did Anna leave? Thats easy...no playing time. After her injury, her shooting never came back and Geno didn't play her. Is that abuse? Hateful? NO, is just an observation that others can agree or disagree with.

 

[huskiemaniac]

Some folks here on the BY have a tendency to make things too personal when it comes to the players. At the end of the day Liv doesn’t owe anything to any of us. Her responsibility is to her teammates, coaches, family and, most importantly, to herself. That’s quite a burden for any 20 year-old to bear, without shouldering the additional burden of the expectations of thousands of overzealous fans to boot.

YinYangYinYangYinYang...it's UConn. The players come here knowing they get the circus. Crowds. Spectacle. The circus has magic and it has piles of elephant dung.

Imo, the fans who ask "how would you feel if she were your daughter" are the ones who take it too personally. As long as the critique/criticism is about basketball performance and abides by the Boneyard rules, so be it.

I don't think the players are concerned.

 

[Geesworld]

I would trade All American, All Big East and All tourney awards for a more well rounded team. This current team is constructed to be that well rounded team that is hard to defense. We have so many ways to win ball games and I love that about this team. Tired of the days winning by 70 and then shrinking in the biggest of biggest games because the Go To's have an off game.

Liv had a great season and I look forward to her expanding on where she left off. Liv will be a starter and she will be fine. DJ, Paith and DeBerry hopefully will add some flexibility and take some pressure off Liv and Aliyah, from having to do so much as an anchor to the back line. Maybe the coaching staff will occasionally allow the offense to go thru the inside for growth purposes throughout the season.

Hope our fan base can get back to loving the team and not just an individual or two
because on any given game a different player could have the spot light.