"If you monitor, you get passed by.

[Marty Jackson]

Gee talking about CR on a CR board is groundhog day but the 1000th best pizza in Connecticut thread on the basketball board, this one during the season, is fine.

best pizza in ct has to be harry's right?

 

[ZooCougar]

Pudge,

We've been merely coasting since we built the facilities.

Warde definitely gets an F for going to the Virgin Islands, he got totally owned. He was never even in the fight. He didn't even think he was big enough to weigh in.

 

[Fishy]

Just simply Crazy Talk.

Words like Botched. Concepts like "we lost the ACC because our AD & President were watching a stupid girls tournament in the USVI". Really? HAVE ANY OF YOU BEEN IN ANY KIND OF COMPLEX BUSINESS?

This.

A thousand times, this.

Dead duck*ing right, but I'm afraid you're teaching calculus to people who need their fingers to count.

 

[NEforceUConn]

I'm not convinced the ACC would bother adding more schools if it loses just 2. We aren't a practical replacement for FSU and Clemson.

But if one of the ACC teams that leave is that bb powerhouse Miami then the ACC would be pressing for a bb school. (90-63)

 

[noeynox]

This.

A thousand times, this.

Dead duck*ing right, but I'm afraid you're teaching calculus to people who need their fingers to count.

Were any of you sweating getting beat out by Louisville when UMD initially bolted? I say this because the acc passed on a stronger football school the year before in wvu, because they didn't fit the academic profile supposedly. Is ville so much better academically than wvu? I don't remember a single person posting initially that ul would be chosen over us. People at UConn thought they had this in the bag and they were wrong.

 

[ZooCougar]

This.

A thousand times, this.

Dead duck*ing right, but I'm afraid you're teaching calculus to people who need their fingers to count.

Apologizing for mediocrity and inaction is a long standing tradition on this board.

"Get into the ACC?, Nope, time for a Carnival Cruise and then a trip to China!"

 

[Revrat]

I think the problem here was that the PERCEPTION that UConn was a shoe-in was just that. A general perception. Nobody ever bothered to look into whether or not they actually had the votes. So it was simply an assumption that in the long run turned out to be wrong. Once the football schools had the ability to threaten to bolt and it became they that were making the decision it was clear that UConn no longer had the votes. Yes the basketball schools probably wanted UConn but faced with FSU and Clemson bolting they chose the better football school. And yes Louisville is a better football school. It wasnt politicing that changed the dynamic it's that everyone assumed that the ACC would bolster basketball and head north for some of that NYC market. The perception was that Duke and UNC were going to lead the pack. That is not what then happened. Keep in mind the same people that were saying UConn was in are many of the same people we call idiots for all the expanion talk.

 

[CL82]

best pizza in ct has to be harry's right?

Stop...

 

[CL82]

Ironically, the same crowd that was proclaiming that the university's silence meant that we were a lock and Lville's campaigning meant that they were on the outside looking in, now profess that we never stood a chance and that's why the AD and Pres. didn't actively campaign. You don't need calculus to know when things don't quite add up.

 

[ZooCougar]

It wasn't a mere perception. We were the clear front runner, we lost out for some of the reasons you just mentioned, but we definitely started with the initiative, did little to keep it and did less to get it back.

I think that part of the reason Warde and Company did so little is that they were "confident" in our position, and by the time they learned that the confidence was no longer valid, there was very little that could be done about it.

If it makes you feel better to say that we were powerless to do anything about it, then say it.

I think the problem here was that the PERCEPTION that UConn was a shoe-in was just that. A general perception. Nobody ever bothered to look into whether or not they actually had the votes. So it was simply an assumption that in the long run turned out to be wrong. Once the football schools had the ability to threaten to bolt and it became they that were making the decision it was clear that UConn no longer had the votes. Yes the basketball schools probably wanted UConn but faced with FSU and Clemson bolting they chose the better football school. And yes Louisville is a better football school. It wasnt politicing that changed the dynamic it's that everyone assumed that the ACC would bolster basketball and head north for some of that NYC market. The perception was that Duke and UNC were going to lead the pack. That is not what then happened. Keep in mind the same people that were saying UConn was in are many of the same people we call idiots for all the expanion talk.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ironically, the same crowd that was proclaiming that the university's silence meant that we were a lock and Lville's campaigning meant that they were on the outside looking in, now profess that we never stood a chance and that's why the AD and Pres. didn't actively campaign. You don't need calculus to know when things don't quite add up.

I think the probability that the leadership got an "unofficial" offer was high. It explains Aresco not mentioning UConn, it's an alibi that explains much of the inaction.

That's where all of the "quiet confidence" and "sleep the sleep of children" came from. The truth likely was that we were in, but FSU and Clemson freaked out, and that changed the game. Jurich just drank our milkshake.

 

[mcs333]

Where did you come across that list of votes?

Talk radio, both the FAN in Char. and Glenn in Raleigh. Both shows had extensive discussion after Ville was chosen. Both had the same breakdown of votes for and against Uconn. Fl. St and Clemson led the fight against Uconn and had support from the other 4 schools mentioned. UNC/Duke were pushing Uconn with the support from Swofford but they could not gather the votes from the other members.

 

[CL82]

I think the probability that the leadership got an "unofficial" offer was high. It explains Aresco not mentioning UConn, it's an alibi that explains much of the inaction.

That's where all of the "quiet confidence" and "sleep the sleep of children" came from. The truth likely was that we were in, but FSU and Clemson freaked out, and that changed the game. Jurich just drank our milkshake.

Maybe, but those of us in the real world know that you don't have a deal, until you do. With so much at stake, nothing should have been taken for granted. We should have calmly and confidently have addressed Lville's promotion campaign early before it got legs. In the world that most of live in, the answer a critical moment of opportunity was lost because you didn't realize that there was a problem until it was too late to do anything about it is a ticket to the unemployment line. This was a huge dropped ball. We don't need to obsess about it, but pretending it was anything less is just enabling another disaster.

 

[noeynox]

Cl82, I'm with you. I hope my post didn't come off as obsessing, I just found the highlighted line interesting given the choice of words, and how it related to us. Its over, and we have to move on but you nailed it. The ball was dropped. When the opportunity to present your case as THE candidate, hopefully they have learned that monitoring, is a losing strategy.

 

[ZooCougar]

Maybe, but those of us in the real world know that you don't have a deal, until you do. With so much at stake, nothing should have been taken for granted. We should have calmly and confidently have addressed Lville's promotion campaign early before it got legs. In the world that most of live in, the answer a critical moment of opportunity was lost because you didn't realize that there was a problem until it was too late to do anything about it is a ticket to the unemployment line. This was a huge dropped ball. We don't need to obsess about it, but pretending it was anything less is just enabling another disaster.

I agree.

 

[ZooCougar]

We got passed over by the ACC because we didn't have the votes. It was 6 for and 6 against. Miami, Fl. St, Clemson GT Nc St and BC voted no for Uconn. I am not sure if Vir. Left for the Big we would be the next team going to the ACC. Half the teams in the ACC just didn't want Uconn in their conf.. I believe Uconn is still a difficult sell to these teams.

Who were the six for? Syrapitt couldn't vote. Maryland didn't vote, so I would think the best we could get was five based on who voted against.

 

[ctchamps]

One last thought. Isn't blaming misfortune on things out of our control EXACTLY what you guys are doing?

No it is what you are doing. I'm not blaming anyone (administration) because it is and was out of their control and to the most extent out of the control of any of the schools who were being reviewed.

Certainly minds can be changed with advertisement. There are a lot of suckers out in the marketplace that make decisions based on Madison Avenue. However there are also discerning individuals who review a product based on what it offers them as opposed to the slick brochure. The decisions made in choosing Ville over UConn were in the hands of FSU. They were swayed by Jurich! Jurich is not "The Mentalist" who can convince the FSU people what they should do. He was a corporal to the five star general (FSU administration). He gave input but in the end the chief of command doesn't factor the advice of lower ranks. And you can be sure the people at FSU who made the decision have the same egos that Jurich has and they won't give him any credit because of their egos.

 

[CL82]

No it is what you are doing. I'm not blaming anyone (administration) because it is and was out of their control and to the most extent out of the control of any of the schools who were being reviewed.

Certainly minds can be changed with advertisement. There are a lot of suckers out in the marketplace that make decisions based on Madison Avenue. However there are also discerning individuals who review a product based on what it offers them as opposed to the slick brochure. The decisions made in choosing Ville over UConn were in the hands of FSU. They were swayed by Jurich! Jurich is not "The Mentalist" who can convince the FSU people what they should do. He was a corporal to the five star general (FSU administration). He gave input but in the end the chief of command doesn't factor the advice of lower ranks. And you can be sure the people at FSU who made the decision have the same egos that Jurich has and they won't give him any credit because of their egos.

Fleud, you and I often see the world the same way, but I disagree that UConn's actions or inaction were irrelevant in the most recent ACC offer.

We needed to get our ahead of 'ville on this and tout our development in football. From I-AA to a BCS bowl in less than 10 years is huge. We needed to present our case that that is exactly what we do at UConn, push for excellence in every sport. We needed to talk about our head to head records vs. Ville, Cuse and Pitt. We needed to address the perception that we are somewhow a weak sister to those schools in football. We aren't Ville's great run this year notwithstanding. We needed to talk about the fact that our football facilities (excluding the Rent) are second to none and note that the Rent is expansion ready. That is our push to the football schools.

To the hoops schools well our pitch is obvious but needed to be articulated. # NCs since 1999? Who tops that? Duke? Well our head to heads speak for themselves.

We needed to speak very publically about our academics and hammer hard that the ACC tradition is (was) successful sports without compromising academics. We've got a great narrative about the development of the school and the money we've invested in it. We should have made a very stark comparision to Louisville that locked down the our schools so that they wouldn't accept Louisville.

We needed (and still do) to revamp our athletic revenues so that they are consistent with the way other schools report them. We needed to tout the fact that our even woman's basketball team has better coverage than Louisville's men's teams with a deal that emphasizes coverage in the NYC metro area.

Perception is reality. We allowed our university to be painted as a school in decline. We allowed another institution to paint itself as an up and comer with only the thinest of veneers to support that premise. You and I could debate whether or not would succeed (and I believe that we could have) but you have to be in the game to win. Standing on the sidelines doesn't get it done.

 

[Rumrunner]

The fallacy is in the belief that these "complex business decisions" are not made by simple humans. To suggest that influence does not...well...influence people is just wrong.

Jurich won, Manuel lost. Jurich stayed home and turned out a Goebbels like proganda campaign while Manuel and Herbst lit off (Manuel unexpectedly) to soak up the sun during happy holiday time.

The ACC decision was made in a matter of days, not after years of research. Louisville was not even on the ACC's radar during past expansion. Circumstances dictated timing.

I'm conflicted on this point. The effort by UConn was so pathetic that either those in charge are deserving of our reprobation, or UConn never tried because Delaney has Herbst's ear.

There really is no middle ground. Since we're called heretics for our Big 10 beliefs, then that leaves us with a buffoon for an AD. Monitor Manuel's leadership isn't exactly captivating the world.

 

[ZooCougar]

Many complex business decisions have been bad ones.

 

[ZooCougar]

Didn't HuskyNan post that she saw Herbst at the beach in the midst of all this?

Saying there was nothing we could have done is such a loser CT attitude. We should have been laying the groundwork for those two weeks since Syrapitt.

Even if the Apologists are right she lost the battle before the first shot was fired. Also not to her credit.

The fallacy is in the belief that these "complex business decisions" are not made by simple humans. To suggest that influence does not...well...influence people is just wrong.

Jurich won, Manuel lost. Jurich stayed home and turned out a Goebbels like proganda campaign while Manuel and Herbst lit off (Manuel unexpectedly) to soak up the sun during happy holiday time.

The ACC decision was made in a matter of days, not after years of research. Louisville was not even on the ACC's radar during past expansion. Circumstances dictated timing.

I'm conflicted on this point. The effort by UConn was so pathetic that either those in charge are deserving of our reprobation, or UConn never tried because Delaney has Herbst's ear.

There really is no middle ground. Since we're called heretics for our Big 10 beliefs, then that leaves us with a buffoon for an AD. Monitor Manuel's leadership isn't exactly captivating the world.

 

[noeynox]

I don't believe that manual is an idiot, just that he was out of his life league against a guy that went blow for blow with oliver luck for a spot in the big 12, the year prior. The fact that Susan hired warde rather than go after a mover and shaker in the mold of Lew perkins, is something she will have to live with.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't believe that manual is an idiot, just that he was out of his life league against a guy that went blow for blow with oliver luck for a spot in the big 12, the year prior. The fact that Susan hired warde rather than go after a mover and shaker in the mold of Lew perkins, is something she will have to live with.

As an organization, UConn wasn't prepared or equipped for this fight. I don't even think they fully understood that the game changed this fall as the ACC was getting more and more pathetic at football.

 

[Pudge]

This is message board debate. It's hard to think you are a serious person when you drift into the pejorative ding of "NPR" and "the Beach".

In this thread, there were some crucial points: the "Game" changed. I don't think lots of noise & public PR campaigns were appropriate for UConn in this last ACC go-around. (and I am a bombthrowing Let's-get-Blumenthal/Malloy-involved thinker) But ... it strikes me that, given our past, that we correctly played some cards. Unfortunately, FSU-Clemson-NCState-GeorgiaTech cabal forced the hand to Louisville. I don't think WE are the Football Program to combat that swing. No amount of lobbying (or even a Tom Jurich behind-the-scenes performance) changes where the ACC was headed. Academics? Sure ... Louisville (in my mind) is slightly beyond WVU & not near what I believe UConn is ... or will be. But, that was not a key criteria.

We are a stark contrast to Jurich's construct of the Louisville Football Program (a 15 year build). We have serious problems in PR & Marketing whereby we have a great Brand; but Hathaway let it flutter in the wind. And, I really don't see that Warde Manual has shown the capacity to lead us to a new era. I am more confident in Herbst. She is far beyond the President model that I see across academia (and I am in the SUNY system).

 

[Carl Spackler]

The only thing that is consistent, in this second great migration of universities, (the first migration was in 1990-1991) and what drives all of this conference shifting, for two decades now, is pursuing the best media rights deals you can get for your intercollegiate athletics product, whether it be individually (BYU Notre Dame Texas) or as a group in a conference.

The power players are the conference commissioners and the university ceo's / presidents. THere is no regulation from a point of authority. There is no end goal.

(There could be an end goal, and regulation from point of authority, but there isn't yet - one or the other, or both ideally - the end goal to stop it all, is a true playoff format for a national champion in 1-A football so that every 1-A program has the same path to a championship)

Football rights are the primary economic force, with two strata related to conference affiliation, the first being direct revenue for sporting events through the regular season schedule, and the second, larger strata - that being the revenue around the football post season, which has created a major divide in the intercollegiate athletics world among different conferences in the past 20 years, with the evolution of the BCS since the first great migration of universities in 1990-1991.

Basketball is a long distance second to everything revenue wise with the primary value in the month of March, and only has significant value really at this point in time because of the changes in the reality television market and the explosion of value of live sports programming, but even still is a distant second.