If UH (etal) want to be in Big 12 in 2023, AAC wants another $35 million… | Page 3 | The Boneyard

If UH (etal) want to be in Big 12 in 2023, AAC wants another $35 million…

It is astounding that these schools were able to succeed in getting into a P5 Conference before UConn.
That’s what happens when you make decisions based on an irrelevant sport. In the world of conference realignment having good basketball is like serving good ice cream with an apple pie. It’s a nice addition but not the thing people care about.

FWIW, Big Lew knew this which was why he pressed to get UConn to play FBS football. Unfortunately, he succeeded too late, and left before it could be solidified.
 
It is astounding that these schools were able to succeed in getting into a P5 Conference before UConn.
Not so much. It was a desperation defensive move by the big 12. If the SEC had rated the two best schools out of the ACC, UConn likely would have gotten the offer. We are a bad geographic fit for the big 12.
 
The problem of course, is ESPN has zero need to be in Bristol. And most UConn fans would whine that playing Houston, CincinnatI, Texas Tech, and Kansas in basketball was no where near as good as playing St Johns and Georgetown. So there is limited demand to risk enraging a major corporate employer/taxpayer to get the program into a league 65% of the fan base would view as a downgrade.
Sad situation for sure. I guess the fans would rather be a big fish in a small pond. Shortsightedness is certainly financially crippling and relegates the school to secondary status.
 
FWIW, Big Lew knew this which was why he pressed to get UConn to play FBS football.
Big Lew turned out to be wrong. He said we needed football or else we'd be left behind. We got left behind anyway.
 
Big Lew turned out to be wrong. He said we needed football or else we'd be left behind. We got left behind anyway.
Lew was right. Your logic is faulty. Is the equivalent of saying that you don’t need a college degree in order to become a doctor because you have a college degree and you’re not a doctor.
 
Big Lew turned out to be wrong. He said we needed football or else we'd be left behind. We got left behind anyway.
I disagree. Had we upgraded earlier and established ourselves, I suspect we would not have been overlooked in the ACC expansion. No way of knowing of course, but he understood that it was football, not basketball that would be the driver and he was correct on that score. Whether the decision to upgrade would have saved us had it been made earlier, nobody can know.
 
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So, be careful about threading on politics.

That said, sure, with the benefit of hindsight, our conference affiliation has been mismanaged. I believe that’s the timing of the expansion break give them to ESPN and you cards conference change opportunities didn’t line up so that a natural quid pro quo, albeit in the margins, was obvious. I do you think that when it became public knowledge via Defiloppo’s comments that BCU was attempting to blackball us, we should have quietly reached out to ESPN and said to them, again in the margins, that conference realignment and conference affiliation means hundreds of millions of dollars to the state of Connecticut. ESPN is funding expansion of the ACC. We would fully expect that any future expansion would include Connecticut. When Maryland left that was the time to quietly go to ESPN’s leadership and say we’ve taken care of you now is the time to take care of us. Nothing in public, everything behind closed doors, which is the way this stuff happens. So, to the extent you say that Connecticut mismanaged it’s conference filiation, I’m inclined to agree regarding replacing Maryland. Keep in mind, however, that Susan Herbst was informed by her connections in the ACC that it was a done deal in Connecticut was going to get the offer. So, she felt her best play was to do nothing not to queer the deal, but have the governors office already reached out to ESPN, there would’ve been no need for her to do anything.

Just my opinion.
Agreed, no politics. Thank you for the reply.
 
Our problem has been losing football games.
In all honesty, I don’t think so. In the 10 years prior to the last ACC expansion Connecticut had gone to five bowls and won two Big East championships. That is a remarkable record for a team that had only just stepped up to D1 play. Don’t get me wrong though, we need to win a lot of games before the next expansion opportunity comes around.
 
In all honesty, I don’t think so. In the 10 years prior to the last ACC expansion Connecticut had gone to five bowls and won two Big East championships. That is a remarkable record for a team that had only just stepped up to D1 play. Don’t get me wrong though, we need to win a lot of games before the next expansion opportunity comes around.
Nah. We weren’t good enough. We should have hired Mike Leach. We’d be in.
 
Good had nothing to do with it.
We would have been in but we hired Paul Pasqualoni. It was a terrible move. We needed to show at least as much commitment as UL did. They had Petrino. We didn’t.

If we had hired anyone in Petrino’s stratosphere, we’d be in the P5 somewhere.
 
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We would have been in but we hired Paul Pasqualoni. It was a terrible move. We needed to show at least as much commitment as UL did. They had Petrino. We didn’t.

If we had hired anyone in Petrino’s stratosphere, we’d be in the P5 somewhere.
Who Knows Idk GIF by Dolly Parton

Who knows? Course, finding someone the quality of Petrino is easier said than done.
 
Who Knows Idk GIF by Dolly Parton

Who knows? Course, finding someone the quality of Petrino is easier said than done.

Mike Leach was the answer and he wanted a job. It was the splash hire we needed.
 
I’m not so sure UConn will be going anywhere unless we see major realignment. Can UConn add enough value to a conference to increase the amount of money everyone takes home? Keep in mind that football drives the bus.

Look at Kansas. In theory, they should be an ideal candidate for Big Ten expansion. A blue blood basketball program. AAU Membership. A state that borders another Big Ten state. A state flagship university. Enhanced media market coverage in the Kansas City market. Yet, KU stands a snowballs chance in hell of ever being invited to the Big Ten. Even it’s blue blood basketball program cannot generate the money football brings in. KU would take from the $$ pie rather than contribute to it.
 
I’m not so sure UConn will be going anywhere unless we see major realignment. Can UConn add enough value to a conference to increase the amount of money everyone takes home? Keep in mind that football drives the bus.

Look at Kansas. In theory, they should be an ideal candidate for Big Ten expansion. A blue blood basketball program. AAU Membership. A state that borders another Big Ten state. A state flagship university. Enhanced media market coverage in the Kansas City market. Yet, KU stands a snowballs chance in hell of ever being invited to the Big Ten. Even it’s blue blood basketball program cannot generate the money football brings in. KU would take from the $$ pie rather than contribute to it.
There's like 10-15 schools that create substantial value, everyone else is along for the ride. There are also other factors that come in like market size, demographics, airports and geographic compatibility. Ultimately, UConn has a brand name with 3 revenue sports that can generate ratings (most schools have one or two). We also have a rising hockey program that can help fill spots on the Big Ten Network and a good baseball program that would fill spots on the ACC Network. Aside from all that, we have a fanbase that will watch and pay for UConn content.

Kansas is valuable in one sport with potential in football (like us). However, they are also in Kansas. While Kansas is about 20% smaller in population than CT, it also lacks the easy access to major cities that CT has. This gives UConn much better growth potential. So, while I feel that KU and UConn should both be in good shape in the final college landscape, there is a lot to consider. The needs of each conference will be different based on their membership, strengths, sports offered and location. However, this debate goes to show how dumb this whole thing is. Based on recent accomplishments, loyal fanbases, academics and brand recognition, both schools should be a complete shoe in to be in a power conference long term.
 
There's like 10-15 schools that create substantial value, everyone else is along for the ride. There are also other factors that come in like market size, demographics, airports and geographic compatibility. Ultimately, UConn has a brand name with 3 revenue sports that can generate ratings (most schools have one or two). We also have a rising hockey program that can help fill spots on the Big Ten Network and a good baseball program that would fill spots on the ACC Network. Aside from all that, we have a fanbase that will watch and pay for UConn content.

Kansas is valuable in one sport with potential in football (like us). However, they are also in Kansas. While Kansas is about 20% smaller in population than CT, it also lacks the easy access to major cities that CT has. This gives UConn much better growth potential. So, while I feel that KU and UConn should both be in good shape in the final college landscape, there is a lot to consider. The needs of each conference will be different based on their membership, strengths, sports offered and location. However, this debate goes to show how dumb this whole thing is. Based on recent accomplishments, loyal fanbases, academics and brand recognition, both schools should be a complete shoe in to be in a power conference long term.
Kansas has the edge in that they are already in a P5 Conference. The demise of the Big 12 has been exaggerated in my opinion. The new schools will only get better. The fear that I have is that football playing schools that are in G5 Conferences will improve as well and leapfrog UConn in the rotation for P5 invite, like Cinci and UCF did.
 
Kansas has the edge in that they are already in a P5 Conference. The demise of the Big 12 has been exaggerated in my opinion. The new schools will only get better. The fear that I have is that football playing schools that are in G5 Conferences will improve as well and leapfrog UConn in the rotation for P5 invite, like Cinci and UCF did.
We got leapfrogged because we sucked. I truly believe we are about to head in the right direction and then accelerate quickly.
 
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I think Louisville is a better fit for the new Big 12 than the ACC. If the Big 12 ever adds Memphis, that would make for a nice geographical pod - WVU, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis.

I guess we will see what kind of media rights deal the new Big 12 gets in a couple years. I doubt it will be more than the ACC.
 
Kansas has the edge in that they are already in a P5 Conference. The demise of the Big 12 has been exaggerated in my opinion. The new schools will only get better. The fear that I have is that football playing schools that are in G5 Conferences will improve as well and leapfrog UConn in the rotation for P5 invite, like Cinci and UCF did.
The problem the schools in the New Big 12 will face is that they will have more losses than they had this past year. It's really simple math. If you take the conference records of the New Big 12 teams from 2021, it was 56-40 (I didn't include BYU), so that means New Big 12 schools (excluding BYU) will have 8 more conference losses. Look at Cincinnati. People were skeptical of their record because they played a weak schedule as their Sagarin opponent ranking was 71. The highest Sagarin ranked schedule for Big 12 schools was 30 and the average was 15. I think Cincinnati will have a tough time duplicating their success going forward.

If you look at the history of changing football conferences in the last 25 years +/-, there are few examples of sustained success. Florida State made a successful transition to the ACC and Penn State did to the Big 10, but there are many others that did not: Nebraska, Miami, Colorado, Pitt (ranked in the final polls once in the 9 years since joining the ACC), Louisville, ... Even Utah, a recent success, is 53-50 in the Pac 12 since joining. Did moving to new conferences improve football at BC, Syracuse, or Rutgers? No, it actually got harder to succeed.
 
Lew was right. Your logic is faulty. Is the equivalent of saying that you don’t need a college degree in order to become a doctor because you have a college degree and you’re not a doctor.
You mean we didn't get left behind? Honestly, no one told me. What happened to UConn is explained in the first 2 minutes of this clip.

 
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I disagree. Had we upgraded earlier and established ourselves...
You can stop right there. You are arguing something that was never going to happen at that time. The only reason it happened at all was because of the Pats deal/no deal.
 
You mean we didn't get left behind? Honestly, no one told me. What happened to UConn is explained in the first 2 minutes of this clip.


No, but you already knew the answer that question. Once again, your reply isn’t in good faith.
 
The problem the schools in the New Big 12 will face is that they will have more losses than they had this past year. It's really simple math. If you take the conference records of the New Big 12 teams from 2021, it was 56-40 (I didn't include BYU), so that means New Big 12 schools (excluding BYU) will have 8 more conference losses. Look at Cincinnati. People were skeptical of their record because they played a weak schedule as their Sagarin opponent ranking was 71. The highest Sagarin ranked schedule for Big 12 schools was 30 and the average was 15. I think Cincinnati will have a tough time duplicating their success going forward.

If you look at the history of changing football conferences in the last 25 years +/-, there are few examples of sustained success. Florida State made a successful transition to the ACC and Penn State did to the Big 10, but there are many others that did not: Nebraska, Miami, Colorado, Pitt (ranked in the final polls once in the 9 years since joining the ACC), Louisville, ... Even Utah, a recent success, is 53-50 in the Pac 12 since joining. Did moving to new conferences improve football at BC, Syracuse, or Rutgers? No, it actually got harder to succeed.
I'm not sure I understand this argument at all. Yes, if teams play each other, someone has to lose? Three of those teams were in the same conference last year and it applied. Both lost to Cincinnati. Are you arguing that Cincinnati likely won't finish 13-0? That's pretty obvious, as they'd never done it in their history before.
 
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I'm not sure I understand this argument at all. Yes, if teams play each other, someone has to lose? Three of those teams were in the same conference last year and it applied. Both lost to Cincinnati. Are you arguing that Cincinnati likely won't finish 13-0? That's pretty obvious, as they'd never done it in their history before.
The new teams going to the Big 12 had great records last year and so did some of the remaining Big 12 schools. Mathematically some of those teams would have had more losses if they all were in the same conference. Will Cincy be looked at as a top football school and attract fans and recruits if they start having 9-4, 8-5, or 7-6 years? And Cincy is a geographic outlier in the Big 12 and over time I think it will be an issue.
 
The problem the schools in the New Big 12 will face is that they will have more losses than they had this past year. It's really simple math. If you take the conference records of the New Big 12 teams from 2021, it was 56-40 (I didn't include BYU), so that means New Big 12 schools (excluding BYU) will have 8 more conference losses. Look at Cincinnati. People were skeptical of their record because they played a weak schedule as their Sagarin opponent ranking was 71. The highest Sagarin ranked schedule for Big 12 schools was 30 and the average was 15. I think Cincinnati will have a tough time duplicating their success going forward.

If you look at the history of changing football conferences in the last 25 years +/-, there are few examples of sustained success. Florida State made a successful transition to the ACC and Penn State did to the Big 10, but there are many others that did not: Nebraska, Miami, Colorado, Pitt (ranked in the final polls once in the 9 years since joining the ACC), Louisville, ... Even Utah, a recent success, is 53-50 in the Pac 12 since joining. Did moving to new conferences improve football at BC, Syracuse, or Rutgers? No, it actually got harder to succeed.
Harder to succeed, but bringing home a much larger pay check win or lose.
 
The new teams going to the Big 12 had great records last year and so did some of the remaining Big 12 schools. Mathematically some of those teams would have had more losses if they all were in the same conference. Will Cincy be looked at as a top football school and attract fans and recruits if they start having 9-4, 8-5, or 7-6 years? And Cincy is a geographic outlier in the Big 12 and over time I think it will be an issue.
Yeah I mean I understand your point I just don't think that matters. Those conferences that play 9 conference games obviously will have more losses than playing one more cupcake. I think fans would rather watch Oklahoma State than Tulane and Tulsa.

I don't see how the geography matters at all for Cincinnati. They currently play 2 teams in Texas (SMU, Houston), 1 team in Oklahoma (Tulsa), 2 teams in Florida (UCF, USF), and teams in Louisiana (Tulane), Maryland (Navy), North Carolina (ECU), and eastern PA (Temple). The closest opponent is Memphis which is more than a 7 hour drive away.

Now they'll play 4 teams in Texas (Baylor, Houston, Texas Tech, TCU), 1 in Oklahoma (OSU), 1 in Florida, 2 in Kansas, 1 in Iowa, 1 in Utah (yes that's far), and West Virginia which is far closer than Memphis. The AAC was a wide flung as any conference out there already, now they'll get 30M+ a year vs under 10M with the AAC.
 
Yeah I mean I understand your point I just don't think that matters. Those conferences that play 9 conference games obviously will have more losses than playing one more cupcake. I think fans would rather watch Oklahoma State than Tulane and Tulsa.

I don't see how the geography matters at all for Cincinnati. They currently play 2 teams in Texas (SMU, Houston), 1 team in Oklahoma (Tulsa), 2 teams in Florida (UCF, USF), and teams in Louisiana (Tulane), Maryland (Navy), North Carolina (ECU), and eastern PA (Temple). The closest opponent is Memphis which is more than a 7 hour drive away.

Now they'll play 4 teams in Texas (Baylor, Houston, Texas Tech, TCU), 1 in Oklahoma (OSU), 1 in Florida, 2 in Kansas, 1 in Iowa, 1 in Utah (yes that's far), and West Virginia which is far closer than Memphis. The AAC was a wide flung as any conference out there already, now they'll get 30M+ a year vs under 10M with the AAC.
Will they get 30 million though? I thought the AAC teams were taking half shares.
 
I think I remember seeing that the new Big 12 schools will receive partial payouts the first two years and full payouts in Year 3. Year 3 is also when both UT and OU will be gone for sure and the start of a new media rights contract, so who knows what a full share will be at that time.
 
No, but you already knew the answer that question. Once again, your reply isn’t in good faith.
Ending up as an indy in FB after 20 years means we didn't get left behind? Of course we got left behind.
 
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