If their NBA Careers ended today

[uconnbill]

Two different players both have had great careers. They are both all time favorites of mine and both will end up in Springfield Mass in a 5-10 years.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Ray and not really that close. People forget Ray was the leader of the Sonics for years. Pierce has never really been the clear number 1 on any team of note. Antigone Walker was considered by many to be the leader of the early Pierce Celtics teams...which is the reason they stunk. Ray was the Sonics clear leader, and in sports you have to give an edge to a number 1 vs. a number 2 guy when all else is fairly equal.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

Also, a lot of credit goes to a player who stays with a team such as Duncan, Kobe and Pierce and wins there. Is there any other player since 1996, 97, 98 that can say that?

Nowitzki

 

[JaYnYcE]

Ray and not really that close. People forget Ray was the leader of the Sonics for years. Pierce has never really been the clear number 1 on any team of note. Antigone Walker was considered by many to be the leader of the early Pierce Celtics teams...which is the reason they stunk. Ray was the Sonics clear leader, and in sports you have to give an edge to a number 1 vs. a number 2 guy when all else is fairly equal.

Ray came to the Celtics and fell to the third option and ended up winning a Chip. For all 'being a leader as a Sonic' he never won a championship there.

 

[JaYnYcE]

Nowitzki

Its going to be weird not seeing these guys in the league in a few years.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Ray came to the Celtics and fell to the third option and ended up winning a Chip. For all 'being a leader as a Sonic' he never won a championship there.

But he had them in contention. Look at the lineup he had to work with. How many rings did Pierce win before the Big 3 got together? Ray kept the Sonics in the playoffs in a much tougher Western Conference. I don't they they ever fell to the lottery until his last year.

Both have had HOF careers, but I think Ray carried a heavier load longer.

 

[JaYnYcE]

Yes he was the man back then but he took on a different role and won somewhere else. If Ray is the better player why is he at best the third option during this Celtics championship era? He and Pierce are around the same age. How many times does/did Pierce require a double team more than Ray since 2007?


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[UConn990411]

Uh, no. Pierce and Ray both made it to the playoffs four times before the Big 3 was united, while Pierce carried the '01 Celtics to the ECF.

And you want to talk about horrific rosters? The second best player on those Celtics teams was Antoine Walker. Think about that again: the SECOND BEST player on those Celtics teams was ANTOINE WALKER. Those Sonics teams were nothing special, but they had more talent than that.

(Oh, and I think everyone besides maybe Mr. and Mrs. Walker knew Pierce was the best player on that team.)

 

[Huskies4ever]

Uh, no. Pierce and Ray both made it to the playoffs four times before the Big 3 was united, while Pierce carried the '01 Celtics to the ECF.

And you want to talk about horrific rosters? The second best player on those Celtics teams was Antoine Walker. Think about that again: the SECOND BEST player on those Celtics teams was ANTOINE WALKER. Those Sonics teams were nothing special, but they had more talent than that.

(Oh, and I think everyone besides maybe Mr. and Mrs. Walker knew Pierce was the best player on that team.)

Um, no. Ray Allen led the Milwaukee Bucks to the 2001 ECF against AI and the 'Sixers.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Yes he was the man back then but he took on a different role and won somewhere else. If Ray is the better player why is he at best the third option during this Celtics championship era? He and Pierce are around the same age. How many times does/did Pierce require a double team more than Ray since 2007?


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Because he was coming off double ankle surgery which took away some of his leaping ability and his explosiveness. And Doc Rivers (a wonderful coach), was going to be loyal to Pierce and keep him the number 1 option in fairness and trying to build championship chemistry. After all, the C's were Paul's team before Garnett and Allen came along. You're right, Pierce is a year younger, and he still has those legs. Ray does not. Switch the two as far as health and see how Pierce looks in comparison to Allen.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Yes he was the man back then but he took on a different role and won somewhere else. If Ray is the better player why is he at best the third option during this Celtics championship era? He and Pierce are around the same age. How many times does/did Pierce require a double team more than Ray since 2007?


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Did you ever see Ray play at UConn, Milwaukee, or Seattle? He just stole the ball and had his fast break layup blocked by DWade. The younger Ray would have dunked over DWade. You guys make him sound like Rashad Anderson. Maybe that's a comparison since he's been a Celtic. Look at his CAREER. I think if you consider the fact that a year longer in the league mind you, he has more career points than Paul, has as many All-Star appearances, is the all-time three point leader, and is an Olympic gold medalist, the question of who has had a better career is much, much closer than many of you make it.

 

[dsturdy5]

Roster comparisons minus Allen/Pierce:

01 Bucks
Tim Thomas
Michael Redd
Sam Casell
Glenn Robinson
Lindsay Hunter
Jason Caffey
Scott Williams
Ervin Johnson
Rafer Alston

02 Celtics
A. Walker
Kenny Anderson
Rodney Rodgers
Tony Delk
Tony Battie
Vitali Potapenko
Walter McCarty
Eric Williams

 

[Huskies4ever]

Roster comparisons minus Allen/Pierce:

01 Bucks
Tim Thomas
Michael Redd
Sam Casell
Glenn Robinson
Lindsay Hunter
Jason Caffey
Scott Williams
Ervin Johnson
Rafer Alston

02 Celtics
A. Walker
Kenny Anderson
Rodney Rodgers
Tony Delk
Tony Battie
Vitali Potapenko
Walter McCarty
Eric Williams

Obviously, better Bucks roster, but that C's roster wasn't terrible at that time. Ray was the man with Robinson and Cassel. Pierce was the man with Walker.

 

[Danzz]

and you could only vote One player into the Hall of Fame. Would you vote in Ray Allen or Paul Pierce and why? I had a few friends over last night watching Celtics Game 7, and we debated this for about an hour with everyone pulling out their iphones, looking up stats/allstar games etc. My Crew voted 5-3 Pierce. What say you-

Pierce. He does more thsan Ray.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Uh, no. Pierce and Ray both made it to the playoffs four times before the Big 3 was united, while Pierce carried the '01 Celtics to the ECF.

And you want to talk about horrific rosters? The second best player on those Celtics teams was Antoine Walker. Think about that again: the SECOND BEST player on those Celtics teams was ANTOINE WALKER. Those Sonics teams were nothing special, but they had more talent than that.

(Oh, and I think everyone besides maybe Mr. and Mrs. Walker knew Pierce was the best player on that team.)

Pierce is a wonderful player, but his advantage over Ray is his strength. Ray was a better athlete, and when he played for the Bucks and the Sonics, he had the same role as Paul, and the same kind of plays were run for him, and he executed like Paul, minus the trips to the line, due to Pierce's strength.

 

[UConn990411]

Pierce also rebounded better, averaged more assists (despite Ray being the guard and Pierce being a forward), and Pierce was/is the more capable defender.

There's not a big difference between the two - both are HOFers, although a level below the KGs and Duncans - but my no measure has Ray had the better career.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Great thread, especially on a morning when I'm prone to remember that Pierce was called for 3 fouls in the fourth quarter and Ray missed the shot that would have been a dagger last night. An "unfair" question has been a showcase for nuanced consideration and appreciation for two future Hall of Famers.

 

[Scoe]

if their NBA Careers ended today they both are first ballot hall of famers guaranteed, who do you think introduces each guy into the HOF it has to be someone who is already inducted. For Ray I will say JC, for Pierce I dunno probably a Celtic.

 

[nomar]

Not even close. Paul Pierce.

 

[Scoe]

Ray Allen because im a homer