If their NBA Careers ended today

[GemParty]

and you could only vote One player into the Hall of Fame. Would you vote in Ray Allen or Paul Pierce and why? I had a few friends over last night watching Celtics Game 7, and we debated this for about an hour with everyone pulling out their iphones, looking up stats/allstar games etc. My Crew voted 5-3 Pierce. What say you-

 

[champs99and04]

It's a good question, but I gotta go with Pierce. He's a slightly better scorer, better rebounder, slightly better defender, and better one on one player. I also think he's proven he can be the best player on a championship team, whereas I'm not so sure about Ray.

 

[boog204]

Pierce has had the better career...

 

[GemParty]

Pierce has had the better career...

The argument (for) Ray was, he matches Pierce in rings. Plus points over a career (ave) & All Star appearances have been close. But, if there was Only one slot left in the Shrine, Ray personally owns an NBA record for shooting and that would give him the smallest of Edges.

 

[Jericho]

I think it would have to be Pierce. He has the more well-rounded game (including defense). Allen spent many years on terrible teams (which to some extent so did Pierce), so pure scoring numbers aren't really a tiebreaker. And Pierce really was the go to guy when the Celtics won it all.

 

[husky99]

Ray has the three point record

 

[boog204]

they're both hall of famers, I just don't think Pierce has been the better all-around player and a bigger "star" than Ray has. I don't think you can just compare numbers because that can be misleading.

 

[PhilG]

My heart says Ray but my head says Pierce

 

[UConn990411]

Pierce, and there's no argument. There's nothing Ray does better outside of 3-point and FT shooting.

Both are sure-fire HOFers though.

 

[Kitaman]

Its kinda unfair to Pierce to ask Husky fans, although the replies have been unexpected. Pierce for sure. Ray is considered a sharp shooter. Pierce has scoring and much more (inside/out game).

 

[huskyharry]

Clearly the vote goes for Ray...I am NOT a KU alum!

 

[SubbaBub]

Ray is/was better historically at what he does than Paul is/was at what he does.

In a historic discussion of the best outside shooters, Ray is among those discussed. In a discussion of the best forwards Paul takes a while to get mentioned.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[UConn990411]

Why are you comparing Pierce to every forward who's ever played, but only comparing Ray to the best outside shooters?

Ray is considered the best 3-point shooter ever, which just about no one would debate at this point. But Pierce was/is better at literally everything else on a basketball court.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Why are you comparing Pierce to every forward who's ever played, but only comparing Ray to the best outside shooters?

Ray is considered the best 3-point shooter ever, which just about no one would debate at this point. But Pierce was/is better at literally everything else on a basketball court.

Free throws, two point j's, Ray's better. You can't define Ray's career as a Celt. He was a much better all around player before he came to Boston off double ankle surgery. Many players retire after that. Ray was also asked to sacrifice more than Pierce and Garnett. I remember him taking Kobe off the dribble one-on-one, and blowing by Shaq to the hoop on the same play when he was in Seattle. I think people forget that about him or never saw him in his earlier years.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I'd have to go with Pierce -- and this coming from a guy who hates the Celtics. He's been the undisputed leader and go-to guy for his team for the last decade. Ray has seemed more one-dimensional, especially lately, and like more of a complementary star than a "get on my back, I'm carrying this team" kind of star. He's the Chris Bosh in Boston's Big 3.

It would be easier to put more stock in Ray's big seasons last decade (~22ppg from 2000-2007) if they actually amounted to anything, playoffs-wise. Although I suppose you could make a similar argument about Pierce.

 

[willie99]

Ray Ray is my favorite NBA player of all time, and I'd vote for Paul

Paul just seems to create more, tougher in traffic, more of a leader for and as been so for an extended period of time

 

[Palatine]

Pierce is a better all around player. Ray is the greatest three point shooter in the history of the league. Advantage goes to the guy who made history.

 

[Hoophound]

Pierce is a better all around player. Ray is the greatest three point shooter in the history of the league. Advantage goes to the guy who made history.

Ray was better before his ankles went. In fact, Ray was better than everyone save Kobe and Iverson back then. He had to get double ankle surgery and that was that.

The legend of Ray Allen should live on in a Bucks or Sonics uniform, he was a shell of himself in Boston. Unfortunately, a great career is judged by both accomplishments and longevity. Ray had to eliminate slashing and dunking from his game, his ability to penetrate was gone. He was only an ultra elite all around player for about 8 years. Pierce will have been at a very high level for about 13 years.
Pierce is a great player but more importantly, a more durable player than most. He is a work horse.

Both are first ballot for the HOF. Pierce has had a better overall career. Still, give me Ray at 27 over Pierce at 27 all day long.

As far as who gets one vote? I say Ray, because owners of all time records are interesting and compelling. "The greatest shooter of all time" has to be in the HOF. Fair to Pierce? Not sure, but it is the way it has to be.

 

[dsturdy5]

I think people forget that about him or never saw him in his earlier years.

Playing in Milwaukee and Seattle will do that for you.

 

[UConn990411]

Free throws, two point j's, Ray's better. You can't define Ray's career as a Celt. He was a much better all around player before he came to Boston off double ankle surgery. Many players retire after that. Ray was also asked to sacrifice more than Pierce and Garnett. I remember him taking Kobe off the dribble one-on-one, and blowing by Shaq to the hoop on the same play when he was in Seattle. I think people forget that about him or never saw him in his earlier years.

I'm not one of those people - I would watch him play every chance I got.

Ray's mid-range game has always been his most underrated skill...but it's not better than Pierce's. And what good is being a lights out FT shooter if you can't get to the line regularly? Pierce is averaging 7.4 FTA for his career (hitting 6 of them), while Ray is at just 4.0 FTA for his career.

Obviously Ray is one of my favorite players ever, but there's simply no argument for him here.

 

[Sportsman5]

Pierce is one of the best one on one players of all time. The most significant difference between the two is the size difference. Pierce is a little taller, bigger, and stronger. This has allowed him to create more mismatches on offense, draw more fouls from opponents (which is important if say lebron james or another great player picks up fouls while guarding him and has to leave the game), and has a much more well rounded game. Ray probably had/has a better work ethic, but didn't/doesn't have as great of physical skills. Ray got more out of his talent, but Pierce was just too physically gifted and competitive to overcome. The people taking offense to the "there is no debate about the fact that Pierce will go down as the better player" are severely underestimating where Pierce will stand historically assuming he has 2-3 more very good seasons. Pierce has slowed down some, but not much, and if he continues to play with Rondo and be one of the key pieces of the offense he will continue to score. If he has 3-4 more decent scoring years he will be top 10 ALL TIME in scoring. Combine that with a few years of being on the all defensive team and his rebounding/ passing abilities and he will probably go down as one of the top 20 players of the last 25 years. Ray is probably top 30-40. Lets say Pierce is #16 in the last 25 years and Ray is #24. So it's not a knock on Allen to say Pierce is better, it's just Pierce is one of the best scorers of all time and a more versatile player. Of course, if pierce goes down with a career ending injury next year and Ray has the surgery on his feet and comes back, than how they will be viewed historically could change. Let the debate rage on, but my vote is definitely for pierce due to versatility on both offense and defense.

 

[huskiesnyc]

Gotta go with my man Ray, best 3 point shooter ever! That's really the end of discussion, because the rest of their numbers are strikingly similar, w the slight edge to Pierce in a lot of categories. Both have had great careers, but people forget how Allen used to cross guys up and dunk all day when he was on the Bucks. Before his ankles went. I'll take the guy who set an All Time NBA record and still has the best looking shot around

 

[JaYnYcE]

The 3 point record can get broken, but no one will ever take The Truth's Finals MVP. Also, a lot of credit goes to a player who stays with a team such as Duncan, Kobe and Pierce and wins there. Is there any other player since 1996, 97, 98 that can say that?

Besides Reggie Miller got in and I wanna say it took him a few years to get in.

 

[champs99and04]

Ray was better before his ankles went. In fact, Ray was better than everyone save Kobe and Iverson back then. He had to get double ankle surgery and that was that.

The legend of Ray Allen should live on in a Bucks or Sonics uniform, he was a shell of himself in Boston. Unfortunately, a great career is judged by both accomplishments and longevity. Ray had to eliminate slashing and dunking from his game, his ability to penetrate was gone. He was only an ultra elite all around player for about 8 years. Pierce will have been at a very high level for about 13 years.
Pierce is a great player but more importantly, a more durable player than most. He is a work horse.

Both are first ballot for the HOF. Pierce has had a better overall career. Still, give me Ray at 27 over Pierce at 27 all day long.

As far as who gets one vote? I say Ray, because owners of all time records are interesting and compelling. "The greatest shooter of all time" has to be in the HOF. Fair to Pierce? Not sure, but it is the way it has to be.

But even during their respective peaks, Pierce was still slightly better than Ray. Plus, as you said, Pierce was is slightly more durable, and he has aged a little bit more gracefully, considering he's always had the "old-man game".

From 2000 to 2006 (before the big three united) Pierce averaged 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 steals on 44% from the field, 79% from the line, and 36% from three.

During Ray's 5 year peak (from 02-07) he averaged 25 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, and 1 steal on 44% from the field, 90% from the line, and 39% from three. Add that to the fact that Pierce was a slightly better defender (though neither were great) and I think it would be difficult to make much of an objective case that Ray belongs ahead of him on the all-time list.

 

[Hoophound]

But even during their respective peaks, Pierce was still slightly better than Ray. Plus, as you said, Pierce was is slightly more durable, and he has aged a little bit more gracefully, considering he's always had the "old-man game".

From 2000 to 2006 (before the big three united) Pierce averaged 25 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 steals on 44% from the field, 79% from the line, and 36% from three.

During Ray's 5 year peak (from 02-07) he averaged 25 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, and 1 steal on 44% from the field, 90% from the line, and 39% from three. Add that to the fact that Pierce was a slightly better defender (though neither were great) and I think it would be difficult to make much of an objective case that Ray belongs ahead of him on the all-time list.

I agree with your assessment except for one thing: I think Ray has always been less selfish with the ball than Pierce, much less. So, minimal differences in stats don't mean much to me. Pierce basically played point guard for a good portion of his career but assists still weren't his thing. Either way, both great players.