If So and So did not get hurt we would have won.....

[hoophuskee]

Few comments on this--I wasn't wrong on everything as you implied. The only comment you're discrediting that I agree I was probably wrong about is the number of minutes that Thomas plays. For some reason I remember Geno not giving her big minutes in big games, but as I look through box scores in 2007 and 2008 I see he did give her big minutes in big games.
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You're usually right on a ton of things. You bring many thought provoking threads up -- but in this case you are looking this at a completely wrong angle.

1--- What's your favorite type of team (I know you "appreciate all types as a fan) in terms of a comparison between a low-post inside centric team vs a perimeter-scoring centric team? I understand you "appreciate" both but which do you personally prefer?

2---So you acknowledge Mel Thomas would have played big minutes right? Therefore you have to acknowledge that Mel was a good basketball player that UCONN missed, right?

3-- You mentioned Charde and Tina were in the doghouse. What does "in the doghouse" generally mean in terms of performance? In generally means they aren't playing well, right? Charde certainly wasn't playing well all season. And I don't recall Kalana Greene ever being in the doghouse, do you? And as you say Maya wasn't going to take Kalana's spot -- one reason we can assume logically is that Kalana was playing well enough. -- But not Charde, right?

4--- So UCONN's frontline had at end of season "one-legged" Brittany Hunter and two inconsistent sophomores in Tina and Kaili and an inconsistent Charde while Geno has shown us he was satisfied with both Mel and Kalana - yet you don't think Geno would have given big minutes to Mel at sg, KG at sf and Maya at pf (if you think Geno would have done this then why do you keep talking about Maya playing behind Kalana as if it is relevant when you know she can really "play" pf too? As I said before Maya would have been playing pf) ? Maya already had shown she could play power forward and play it tough- she had 17 rebounds as a starting pf vs Syracuse. So you really think Kayla Pederson (power forward from Stanford that had 17 points in 37 minutes) would have outplayed Maya?


UCONN's bigs weren't playing well or in Hunter's case she was hurt. You really think Maya couldn't have defended Pedersen well? Then we'd have three players to guard Appel- sure Appel was better at that time BUT the Stanford two-man game which you give props to - rightfully so- I know it would have been negated because Maya had the athleticism/quickness with just enough size to negate Pedersen.

5--- You spoke of Maya was a bright spot-- sure she was-- but she didn't play well. "Bright spot" and "Playing well" are 2 different things. She was 8-19 from the floor and 3-11 from three therefore she was incredibly inefficient - so you mention her 20 points--- I mention her bad shooting. That's what happens when a team can throw a triangle-and-two defense at you and you don't have additional shooters to get them out of it. For a frosh she did her best and was a bright spot. Just not good though. Also while she did have 3 assists- she had 4 turnovers. So in this game she didn't shoot well. She didn't pass well. I can't say she played well. Usually when your best players are this inefficient shooting and more turnovers than assists- you aren't going to win. That all adds up to "not playing well."

6--- I absolutely agree with - you nailed it UCONN wasn't playing as well at end of season. But as I said you are looking at things at a completely wrong angle. UCONN wasn't playing well because they didn't have additional shooters / players that can hit shots and make good decisions with the ball. And of course, Hunter was a shell of her early- -season-self. But that is the point of this thread- in this case "If Mel and Kalana weren't hurt" then UCONN would have been much better not only because of the value of Mel and Kalana but the decision would have been to put Maya at the pf - position she went on to play magnificently for three years after. Before Kalana got hurt- Maya wouldn't just play sf.

With Maya on the floor at pf we would have had four shooters on the floor. Our pg Montgomery would have dictated tempo. Not the sg Wiggins or the low posts. We would have been able to run more with Monty/Ketia/KAlana and Maya. Even Tina and Charde for whatever minutes they got would have gotten more opportunities in full-court and because Maya would have guarded Pedersen - the two-player inside attack would have been negated.

Therefore with two good players- guards which Geno never put in doghouse because they were good they would have been the ones seeing the minutes and Maya would have been taking minutes away all year from the inconsistent frontline. Thus the probability that UCONN would have faded like they did in 07-08 is almost nil.

 

[bballnut90]

You're usually right on a ton of things. You bring many thought provoking threads up -- but in this case you are looking this at a completely wrong angle.

1--- What's your favorite type of team (I know you "appreciate all types as a fan) in terms of a comparison between a low-post inside centric team vs a perimeter-scoring centric team? I understand you "appreciate" both but which do you personally prefer?

2---So you acknowledge Mel Thomas would have played big minutes right? Therefore you have to acknowledge that Mel was a good basketball player that UCONN missed, right?

3-- You mentioned Charde and Tina were in the doghouse. What does "in the doghouse" generally mean in terms of performance? In generally means they aren't playing well, right? Charde certainly wasn't playing well all season. And I don't recall Kalana Greene ever being in the doghouse, do you? And as you say Maya wasn't going to take Kalana's spot -- one reason we can assume logically is that Kalana was playing well enough. -- But not Charde, right?

4--- So UCONN's frontline had at end of season "one-legged" Brittany Hunter and two inconsistent sophomores in Tina and Kaili and an inconsistent Charde while Geno has shown us he was satisfied with both Mel and Kalana - yet you don't think Geno would have given big minutes to Mel at sg, KG at sf and Maya at pf (if you think Geno would have done this then why do you keep talking about Maya playing behind Kalana as if it is relevant when you know she can really "play" pf too? As I said before Maya would have been playing pf) ? Maya already had shown she could play power forward and play it tough- she had 17 rebounds as a starting pf vs Syracuse. So you really think Kayla Pederson (power forward from Stanford that had 17 points in 37 minutes) would have outplayed Maya?


UCONN's bigs weren't playing well or in Hunter's case she was hurt. You really think Maya couldn't have defended Pedersen well? Then we'd have three players to guard Appel- sure Appel was better at that time BUT the Stanford two-man game which you give props to - rightfully so- I know it would have been negated because Maya had the athleticism/quickness with just enough size to negate Pedersen.

5--- You spoke of Maya was a bright spot-- sure she was-- but she didn't play well. "Bright spot" and "Playing well" are 2 different things. She was 8-19 from the floor and 3-11 from three therefore she was incredibly inefficient - so you mention her 20 points--- I mention her bad shooting. That's what happens when a team can throw a triangle-and-two defense at you and you don't have additional shooters to get them out of it. For a frosh she did her best and was a bright spot. Just not good though. Also while she did have 3 assists- she had 4 turnovers. So in this game she didn't shoot well. She didn't pass well. I can't say she played well. Usually when your best players are this inefficient shooting and more turnovers than assists- you aren't going to win. That all adds up to "not playing well."

6--- I absolutely agree with - you nailed it UCONN wasn't playing as well at end of season. But as I said you are looking at things at a completely wrong angle. UCONN wasn't playing well because they didn't have additional shooters / players that can hit shots and make good decisions with the ball. And of course, Hunter was a shell of her early- -season-self. But that is the point of this thread- in this case "If Mel and Kalana weren't hurt" then UCONN would have been much better not only because of the value of Mel and Kalana but the decision would have been to put Maya at the pf - position she went on to play magnificently for three years after. Before Kalana got hurt- Maya wouldn't just play sf.

With Maya on the floor at pf we would have had four shooters on the floor. Our pg Montgomery would have dictated tempo. Not the sg Wiggins or the low posts. We would have been able to run more with Monty/Ketia/KAlana and Maya. Even Tina and Charde for whatever minutes they got would have gotten more opportunities in full-court and because Maya would have guarded Pedersen - the two-player inside attack would have been negated.

Therefore with two good players- guards which Geno never put in doghouse because they were good they would have been the ones seeing the minutes and Maya would have been taking minutes away all year from the inconsistent frontline. Thus the probability that UCONN would have faded like they did in 07-08 is almost nil.

I'm at work so I have to make this quick...but I'll point out that Houston/Charles both has solid showings, they combined for 19 points, 11 boards and 8-13 FG so I don't see Moore making a bigger impact at the 4 than she did as a SF. UCONN still had 3 long range shooters outside of Thomas, who wasn't going to get open looks against Stanford. If Thomas plays, it means Swanier comes off the bench and sees fewer minutes (who was rock solid at the end of the year and had 13 points, 5 assists, 1 TO and was 3-6 from long range against UCONN.) It's also far fetched to say the probability is almost nil that UCONN fades at the end of 2008. They didn't finish the previous three seasons playing their best basketball, no reason to believe they would in 2008. It's also far fetched to say that freshman Moore negates Pederson, who finished with 17/7 scoring inside and out. I stand by my main argument Stanford was peaking at the right time and was a completely different team from the first match up. They had outstanding ball movement which created open opportunities to score against UCONN. I don't think adding in Greene/Thomas changes that, where do differ on your views. I'll leave it at that.

 

[bertieboy]

Mel Thomas and Kalana Greene both got injured in January of 2008 and did not return. They were both starters and had we still had them for the NCAA semifinal game against Stanford, we would have won it. Stanford prevailed 82-73 but we had beaten them 66-54 in December. Tennessee won it all in 2008 with Candace Parker, but if we had gone up against them with our full roster I would have liked out chances a whole lot.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm at work so I have to make this quick...but I'll point out that Houston/Charles both has solid showings, they combined for 19 points, 11 boards and 8-13 FG so I don't see Moore making a bigger impact at the 4 than she did as a SF. UCONN still had 3 long range shooters outside of Thomas, who wasn't going to get open looks against Stanford. If Thomas plays, it means Swanier comes off the bench and sees fewer minutes (who was rock solid at the end of the year and had 13 points, 5 assists, 1 TO and was 3-6 from long range against UCONN.) It's also far fetched to say the probability is almost nil that UCONN fades at the end of 2008. They didn't finish the previous three seasons playing their best basketball, no reason to believe they would in 2008. It's also far fetched to say that freshman Moore negates Pederson, who finished with 17/7 scoring inside and out. I stand by my main argument Stanford was peaking at the right time and was a completely different team from the first match up. They had outstanding ball movement which created open opportunities to score against UCONN. I don't think adding in Greene/Thomas changes that, where do differ on your views. I'll leave it at that.

Nah - nothing here I agree with you on. Its unusual but nothing.

1--- Maya was 1stteam all-american. And Monty was climbing. Your use of prior years in which we declined doesn't even come close to meeting the standard of UCONN's 07-08 team. One player in basketball can be enormous. Either the greatest or 2nd greatest UCONN husky in history of the program (Maya) -- you give her good players- guards so then she could paly power forward- which she played predominantly her soph thru senior years- UONN wouldn't have faded. One player in basketball - especially a superstar is enormous.

2--- Tina and Charde didn't have the showing you think. If Tina was so solid, then why did Gneo only play her 10 minutes in the 2nd half? If Charde was so solid then why in 14 minutes in the 2nd half did she only gather 1 rebound and score just 4 points as the opposing team was in a triangle-and-two? The player's you're referring to as "solid" wound up with 6 points and 2 rebounds in the 2nd half along with zero assists between the two.

3--- Therefore I don't agree one iota not even a mil-second with your belief Maya wouldn't have had a bigger impact at the 4. A further point I disagree is that you do nail it when you say Pedersen scores "inside and out." So tell me- to start the game who can guard an inside and out player like Pedersen - on UCONNs frontline as Geno started McLaren and Hunter? What about Tina? None of them can guard an inside out player that is crafty with the ball/slick with her cuts etc. So the option is "1 rebound Charde" or Maya.

4--- It is so far-fetched to believe Maya couldn't have negated Pedersen when in act she was a power forward most of her career at UCONN.

5--- And I stand by my main argument that Stanford wouldn't have ben able to defend UCONN in that junk defense they employed while Maya would have made life much tougher for Pedersen. If you cant how the junk defense at UCONN then BOTH shooting AND passing become MOE efficient for UCONN forcing Stanford to play even more half-court. And Maya defending Pedersen - it could have been too much for Stanford.

6--- And you are absolutely right about Swanier!! She was solid. But in the 1st half she picked up two fouls and had to leave with 12:42 left. The score was 15-14. Stanford built up the score to take a halftime 7 point lead when she was out. And Swanier was our bench player - behind BOTH Thomas and Kalana on depth charts. The two fouls on her with Mel and Kalana would have had NO IMPACT. Lorin Dixon (and Meg Gardler though only 2 minutes) would never have saw the floor if we had KG and MT. Anyhow what we would have had was "40 minutes of Ketia Swanier but actually better" because Thomas was a better shooter - a better weapon to beat that junk defense and Kalana was a better player than Charde and because we would have had 4 shooters - Stanford would have had to scrap their junk defense thus both Maya AND Rene would have benefited not being guarded by a triangle-and-two.

7----- I agree with you - if UCONN met Tenn - I think we would have lost. Too bad we didn't get the chance to see. .