If not UConn...

[JordyG]

IMHO, under no circumstances would I send a player with outstanding potential, a UCONN-type HS player, to:
Brenda Frese- I would not submit any potential star to BF's pre-game BS!
The Muffett- With many chances has only one title that UCONN gave her in 2001!
Kim Mulkey- won only one title with supposedly the greatest difference maker, Brittany Griner, & didn't prepare for L'ville!
Dawn Staley- great player that cannot coach up to her player level!
J. P. McCallie- Anyone that cannot remember players' names can't get best out of players talent!

I do appreciate
Scott Rueck at Ore. St.
Gary Blair at TX A&M
Vic Shaefer at Miss. St.
Mike Neighbors at Washington
Tara Vanderveer at Stanford
Karen Aston at TX
Sherri Coale at Okla
Doug Bruno at DePaul

About Bruno and Tara I'm there. If he were still coaching, Jabir as well.

 

[NoelAustin]

If her goal is to have a career in basketball, my preference would be Louisville. If she want to play Div I ball but to do something else after college, I would like Stanford.

 

[UcMiami]

Lets say your daughter was a top 20 prospect coming out of high school. If UConn were not an option (through no fault of hers) where would you like her to go? What other coach would best maximize her basketball potential? Would it change depending upon position played?

Given that if lucky, 10 of the HS top 20 prospects get drafted out of college, and of those, maybe 5 have more than a thee year WNBA career ... And non-starter WNBA players and non-WNBA players while they can pursue overseas careers, are not making great money and living generally nomadic lives - can be fun if you end up in a fun city/country for a few years, but ...
I think you have to look at education and environment more than basketball because those are going to end up being more important in the long run.

Yes, the odds of a good pro career are a little better at some of the bigger programs, but they are still terrible even at Uconn - drop out the top ten prospects from the WNBA roll of Uconn alum and it gets pretty sparse - DT, Tina, Maya, Morgan, Moriah, Breanna and I am assuming you aren't talking about that type of talent. If you look at the results from other top tier programs it isn't going to look as good as Uconn with 5 or 6 non top ten talents playing in the W.

We can all name coaches we don't like much or don't respect as developers of talent, but even there it is a crap shoot with players still rising above their coaching. Princeton and Harvard, Stanford and Duke stand out on the academic front, followed by ND, UNC (I know! but they do.), and Cal probably head the second level. Coaching wise, Stanford and ND of those above stand out - I would add Princeton, but I think their coach may leave soon for a bigger school. And after that, there are some other schools whose coaches seem attractive - Washington State and Oregon State, I like Barnes Arico at Michigan, OK and FSU as well, but others would have their own lists. And I think region and actual school location are probably more important as well as how the recruit responds to the whole coaching staff. And of course George Washington is always an option academically, location, and coaching!

I can't think of any positional preferences as far as coaching being weighted to one position over another - women's basketball is so team oriented that the integration of team play is more important than how well guards or forwards develop their individual skills and from outside it is really hard to judge.

 

[bags27]

Given that if lucky, 10 of the HS top 20 prospects get drafted out of college, and of those, maybe 5 have more than a thee year WNBA career ... And non-starter WNBA players and non-WNBA players while they can pursue overseas careers, are not making great money and living generally nomadic lives - can be fun if you end up in a fun city/country for a few years, but ...
I think you have to look at education and environment more than basketball because those are going to end up being more important in the long run.

Not surprisingly, great post, UcMiami.

Since the odds are slim of any but the very top HS players having anything like a satisfying pro career, this begs to be asked: then why place so much emphasis on the coach/basketball program in the first place? Why not just go to a school that you'd enjoy being at, where you'd be a great player, even if your skills aren't developed to the fullest, but where you think you'd be challenged academically and happy socially (with a broader social circle than if you played highly competitive D-1 ball) ?

I'm not pushing for that necessarily and certainly not for everyone, but one (very hard) lesson I have learned is that sometimes you don't have to make the most of all your talents (even your strongest talents). You can walk away and do other things if they make you happier. And if most WCBB players don't make a career out of it, then maybe some of them need counseling on how to integrate their basketball aspirations into other possible ways to view college as a valuable experience.

 

[UcMiami]

But what frustrates me is the belief that going to the highest ranks colleges equates with getting the best education. Certainly, the very best, most highly motivated students do get the best opportunities offered them at the highest-ranked schools. Note my phrasing: "offered them." They are available everywhere, if you want it, though far easier to get at these schools. But precisely because D-1 athletes spend so much of their time in athletic endeavors, they do not nearly so often take advantage of what is "offered." Happy students learn the most. Go where you think you will be happiest.

Bags - I agree completely, and a motivated student can get a fabulous education at almost any school in the country, but ...
The environment does make a huge difference for most students and the seriousness of fellow students is a huge part of that environment. The difference between walking out of a class and continuing a discussion of some interesting topic with classmates vs. discussing the keg party on Friday is real. And even if most of the time is spent with fellow athletes, that still makes a difference - a much higher portion of those athletes at Stanford are actually attending serious classes and doing serious academic work than those at Kentucky or Florida State, and it does make a difference in the level of temptation to slack off if you are not a athlete particularly driven to succeed academically. Uconn WCBB has academic competitions within the team every semester which I suspect is not a standard practice at all schools, and I am pretty sure is not a standard within all of the Uconn athletic programs either. But an academically inclined athlete will feel they are more in tune with the whole student population at a school with top flight academics and it will be easier for them to feel part of that whole community.

It isn't that you cannot find a group of similarly serious students as 'State U' it is that you are more of a minority there than at 'Super Academic U'.

By the way - it is the same in HS as well - I went to EO Smith in Storrs and 50+% of the student population was from a family connected to Uconn, and so I was surrounded by high achieving students and felt part of a large segment, perhaps the majority, that took grades and homework very seriously. That was unique amongst my freshman dorm when I got to college - everyone else had been seen as a fringe part of their high school classes because they took the school work seriously. And when I transferred from an Ivy to a non-ivy half way through school, there was a noticeable difference in the seriousness of students, I found my set, but it was a much smaller universe of the college population.

 

[BigBird]

Sigh. I continue to rail against the facile belief that sending a kid to a so-called prestigious university somehow guarantees that they will get a better education...Yes, prestigious degrees do get you your first job interview. But after that, you're own your own in life. Just ask all those Ivy graduates fighting for jobs in Silicon Valley...Do not be fooled. Let your kid determine what are the 3 best basketball programs she might want to play for... She should talk with non-athletes as well. Where she thinks she will be happiest is where she will learn the most. At the end of those visits, she should decide by trusting her gut.

Bags has totally nailed it. The polls that rate colleges are even more shaky and arbitrary as the polls that rate sports teams. Sometimes these rankings are insightful, most times not so much. When selecting a college, it would be useful if the student could find someone who (like Bags) can offer wisdom and experience-driven advice. Knowing what to expect, in both a microscopic and macroscopic view, leads to being comfortable with the chosen school. That comfort leads to a more productive experience. I did academic advising for students entering my field, and I was often surprised by the totally unrealistic expectations and lack of any rational perspective I sometimes witnessed.

Here are a couple of suggestions: First, read and comprehend the college catelog for your areas of academic interest. Most colleges put their docs online. Next, make a contact with the person(s) responsible for internships and placement support. They tend to have
a very "nuts and bolts" view of their field, with emphasis on what it really takes to build a career. Your ongoing relationship with this person will be very important. Shadowing a friend through their day on campus can be useful too. If their classes are disorganized or grossly overcrowded, odds are yours could be as well.

A little extra effort at the front end of the process can save money and wasted effort at the endpoint.

 

[UcMiami]

Not surprisingly, great post, UcMiami.

Since the odds are slim of any but the very top HS players having anything like a satisfying pro career, this begs to be asked: then why place so much emphasis on the coach/basketball program in the first place? Why not just go to a school that you'd enjoy being at, where you'd be a great player, even if your skills aren't developed to the fullest, but where you think you'd be challenged academically and happy socially (with a broader social circle than if you played highly competitive D-1 ball) ?

I'm not pushing for that necessarily and certainly not for everyone, but one (very hard) lesson I have learned is that sometimes you don't have to make the most of all your talents (even your strongest talents). You can walk away and do other things if they make you happier. And if most WCBB players don't make a career out of it, then maybe some of them need counseling on how to integrate their basketball aspirations into other possible ways to view college as a valuable experience.

Interesting point, but I would say for most of the basketball prospects it is not just a talent, but also a passion, and at 18 you should follow your life passion to find out how far it can take you - it might not take you to a pro career and the odds that it does are small, but it might take you to sports medicine or coaching or sports management, or to working for Nike, or it may just pay your way through college and along the way continue to develop your attention to detail, your dedication to a craft, and your sense of teamwork and striving for shared goals with a community.
For others like EDD it can feel like a trap, or they can decide that the sacrifices it demands are ones they aren't willing to pay, and those too are valuable lessens to learn. It is why I don't get angry about people who leave Uconn WCBB no matter how their absence affects the team. EDD needed to take time away and find out if it was a passion or just a trap, and she needed to find her way back at a different level than Uconn would have demanded had she just red-shirted for a year or two.

 

[bags27]

Great point, UcMiami [I'm responding to your previous post, not the one directly above]. I take it completely. Who your peers are plays a huge role in your academic success. The big secret (that everyone knows) about Harvard is that it usually ranked pretty low in terms of undergraduate teaching, but, of course, its alums excel. The formula: take really smart kids and let them talk to one another for 4 years.

I think I was drifting in 2 different, not entirely cogent or consistent directions, so let me clarify.

1. My first set of posts was in response to someone who wanted to play D-1 at the highest (non-UConn) level, and I was saying that the very top schools academically shouldn't be the only group to consider. Bigbird, directly above, is responding to that as well.

2. In response to your post, I was wondering why even confine one's consideration narrowly to the most competitive D-1 schools. I think Coco's point (that, alas, is only too true) is that if you're intent on playing in the most competitive programs, most of the time you are inherently limiting your academic and social choices.

So, I was trying to get myself out of that trap by suggesting greater flexibility, not only in potential colleges but in basketball aspirations. Actually, I had in mind some very fine small D-3 schools, where many students are walk-on athletes and the culture is very different. (Of course, they don't give athletic scholarships....).

EO Smith is an awesome HS, from all I understand. Half the kids graduate with a couple of years of college credit earned at UConn.

 

[bags27]

Interesting point, but I would say for most of the basketball prospects it is not just a talent, but also a passion, and at 18 you should follow your life passion to find out how far it can take you - it might not take you to a pro career and the odds that it does are small, but it might take you to sports medicine or coaching or sports management, or to working for Nike, or it may just pay your way through college and along the way continue to develop your attention to detail, your dedication to a craft, and your sense of teamwork and striving for shared goals with a community.
For others like EDD it can feel like a trap, or they can decide that the sacrifices it demands are ones they aren't willing to pay, and those too are valuable lessens to learn. It is why I don't get angry about people who leave Uconn WCBB no matter how their absence affects the team. EDD needed to take time away and find out if it was a passion or just a trap, and she needed to find her way back at a different level than Uconn would have demanded had she just red-shirted for a year or two.

Another good point! I think of Molly Bent, who had Ivy offers....

 

[CL82]

Never ever would I want my kid at Baylor. Don't like how she treated Griner being gay and she is out coached by far less talent. Muffet is good not great and I think you are dead on about Staley they don't normally impress me no matter what their rank

How did Mulkey treat Griner? Didn't she pretty much say, you be you? I don't feel like it was more than that. Is that wrong.

Think about UConn players, how much of them go public with the sexuality here? I don't get sense that the staff is surpressing anyone. Was Griner's situation at Baylor different?

 

[easttexastrash]

Interesting point, but I would say for most of the basketball prospects it is not just a talent, but also a passion, and at 18 you should follow your life passion to find out how far it can take you - it might not take you to a pro career and the odds that it does are small, but it might take you to sports medicine or coaching or sports management, or to working for Nike, or it may just pay your way through college and along the way continue to develop your attention to detail, your dedication to a craft, and your sense of teamwork and striving for shared goals with a community.
For others like EDD it can feel like a trap, or they can decide that the sacrifices it demands are ones they aren't willing to pay, and those too are valuable lessens to learn. It is why I don't get angry about people who leave Uconn WCBB no matter how their absence affects the team. EDD needed to take time away and find out if it was a passion or just a trap, and she needed to find her way back at a different level than Uconn would have demanded had she just red-shirted for a year or two.

This is why I applaud Vivian Gray, ranked 26 in the 2017, and she chose Fort Lewis over the top programs, including Baylor, who recruited her.

 

[easttexastrash]

How did Mulkey treat Griner? Didn't she pretty much say, you be you? I don't feel like it was more than that. Is that wrong.

Think about UConn players, how much of them go public with the sexuality here? I don't get sense that the staff is surpressing anyone. Was Griner's situation at Baylor different?

Mulkey was very supportive of Griner in many ways, but Mulkey also works for the University of Baylor. The administration is the entity that told Griner to limit what she advertised about her sexuality and dating life. I don't know, but do UCONN players post information about their boyfriends or girlfriends on Facebook? Are they allowed to post on Facebook during the season? I am guessing that UCONN has had a lesbian or two throughout the years and I don't remember any of them posting about it during their UCONN careers.

 

[Dove]

Yale

 

[HopJim]

Bags - I agree completely, and a motivated student can get a fabulous education at almost any school in the country, but ...
The environment does make a huge difference for most students and the seriousness of fellow students is a huge part of that environment. The difference between walking out of a class and continuing a discussion of some interesting topic with classmates vs. discussing the keg party on Friday is real. And even if most of the time is spent with fellow athletes, that still makes a difference - a much higher portion of those athletes at Stanford are actually attending serious classes and doing serious academic work than those at Kentucky or Florida State, and it does make a difference in the level of temptation to slack off if you are not a athlete particularly driven to succeed academically. Uconn WCBB has academic competitions within the team every semester which I suspect is not a standard practice at all schools, and I am pretty sure is not a standard within all of the Uconn athletic programs either. But an academically inclined athlete will feel they are more in tune with the whole student population at a school with top flight academics and it will be easier for them to feel part of that whole community.

It isn't that you cannot find a group of similarly serious students as 'State U' it is that you are more of a minority there than at 'Super Academic U'.

By the way - it is the same in HS as well - I went to EO Smith in Storrs and 50+% of the student population was from a family connected to Uconn, and so I was surrounded by high achieving students and felt part of a large segment, perhaps the majority, that took grades and homework very seriously. That was unique amongst my freshman dorm when I got to college - everyone else had been seen as a fringe part of their high school classes because they took the school work seriously. And when I transferred from an Ivy to a non-ivy half way through school, there was a noticeable difference in the seriousness of students, I found my set, but it was a much smaller universe of the college population.

Agree with those who say the academics and overall quality of school experience come first. Surprised so few mention ND but great school and wonderful alumni network (i.e. post grad jobs!). Maryland in the middle of a strong job market with a lot to do off season. Baylor in a small city but good school with a great campus and strong bball support.

 

[Zanzman]

Duke cause if she doesn't get a job as a waitress she would want to drive a bus.

 

[UcMiami]

Mulkey was very supportive of Griner in many ways, but Mulkey also works for the University of Baylor. The administration is the entity that told Griner to limit what she advertised about her sexuality and dating life. I don't know, but do UCONN players post information about their boyfriends or girlfriends on Facebook? Are they allowed to post on Facebook during the season? I am guessing that UCONN has had a lesbian or two throughout the years and I don't remember any of them posting about it during their UCONN careers.

Was going to post along these lines - yeah, Kim knew and didn't care, but Baylor is a religious school and has strict guidelines about all sexuality LGBT or hetero, though probably stricter for the former. It is the same for many religious schools including BYU.
Uconn is not a religious school, and has none of those guidelines, so it doesn't fall into the same situation. But all Uconn WCBB freshman get schooled in media awareness and I am sure counseled not to share too much personal information on-line for their own protection. There are restrictions on some social media during the season - not sure what all that includes beyond not using twitter. During the season, I think the importance of not creating distractions for the team is probably emphasized, but if someone felt strongly about publicly announcing their personal preferences out of season, the coaches would have no comment.
There are certainly a few Uconn WCBB alum who are 'out' but I am not sure any have made big announcements like EDD or Griner.

 

[svetbird]

How did Mulkey treat Griner? Didn't she pretty much say, you be you? I don't feel like it was more than that. Is that wrong.

Think about UConn players, how much of them go public with the sexuality here? I don't get sense that the staff is surpressing anyone. Was Griner's situation at Baylor different?

yes she told her it was not an issue at baylor (which was a lie) then she told her she needed to hide being gay for 4 years. The actual rule at Baylor is no gays allowed (or at least it was at the time) Kim wanted her so she told her what she needed to to get Griner there

 

[BroadwayVa]

Lets say your daughter was a top 20 prospect coming out of high school. If UConn were not an option (through no fault of hers) where would you like her to go? What other coach would best maximize her basketball potential? Would it change depending upon position played?

She should pay her way to UCONN and try to be a walk on---she'll get an NC right, T shirt, hat, etc and new Nike shoes!!
Why go to 2nd best that may up being 20th best!! She'll travel, eat and sleep with the best possible accommodations--attend Broadway shows with the team, and visit kids in hospitals, Military wounded , and do nearly anything to make their town, State or country better--and help people. UConn or nothing!! In 20 years fans will know her name at UConn--at podunk U they won't know her name if she scores 30 per game WBB isn't everywhere like Uconn.

 

[BroadwayVa]

IMHO, under no circumstances would I send a player with outstanding potential, a UCONN-type HS player, to:
Brenda Frese- I would not submit any potential star to BF's pre-game BS!
The Muffett- With many chances has only one title that UCONN gave her in 2001!
Kim Mulkey- won only one title with supposedly the greatest difference maker, Brittany Griner, & didn't prepare for L'ville!
Dawn Staley- great player that cannot coach up to her player level!
J. P. McCallie- Anyone that cannot remember players' names can't get best out of players talent!

I do appreciate
Scott Rueck at Ore. St.
Gary Blair at TX A&M
Vic Shaefer at Miss. St.
Mike Neighbors at Washington
Tara Vanderveer at Stanford
Karen Aston at TX
Sherri Coale at Okla
Doug Bruno at DePaul

\
You missed Kenny Brooks at Virginia Tech---he treats his players with respect--and his daughter plays for him.
Next him -I'd put Doug Bruno and Sherri and Gary. But Uconn as a walk on is the best choice.

 

[tomcat]

I'm assuming here that she is a superior student and athlete. Otherwise, as someone suggested, why go through this exercise?

Not Duke because of the coach, although it's a fine school. Not Louisville because of the school (and the fact that athletics seem blown all out of proportion in that state, among others), not the coach. Not Baylor because of the religion thing involving LGBT. Stanford gets dinged in my book for having fraternities and sororities, but would be my top choice for quality athletics and great academics. Notre Dame would be up there as well.

 

[BroadwayVa]

It's always good to hedge your bets. Great education & great basketball at Stanford.

Silly mascot however.

I keep reading Stanford --Great education--what does that mean?? Great Internet specialist, Theoretical physicist? Is it about "learning anything" or life skills, or employment opportunities--. In most of the previous (except Theoretical physicist) a Uconn education isn't shabby. I have kids that went to MIT, Harvard, UConn, US Cal, Hawaii--etc--frankly
I can't tell the difference--in job satisfaction, specialty satisfaction slight difference in financial reward.
For theoretical Physicist I'd send them to Germany maybe Princeton.

 

[CL82]

yes she told her it was not an issue at baylor (which was a lie) then she told her she needed to hide being gay for 4 years. The actual rule at Baylor is no gays allowed (or at least it was at the time) Kim wanted her so she told her what she needed to to get Griner there

I don't remember it quite this way. She offered Griner knowing that she was okay, but essentially said why would you talk publicly about your sexuality. I don't think she was ever told that she wasn't welcome or that that she would be expelled for public displays (BYU's standard.) I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I don't remember Griner saying differently.

 

[BroadwayVa]

svetbird- - -By mistake,I'm almost 70 and the mind is floating away, I left off Jeff Walz of L'ville as a coach I appreciate as a HC!
He got Brenda Frese her 2006 NC!

Join the club--of not thinking of everything all the time--you have a lot more things to think about than you did-I got you by 15 years, at least--and I know the issues--like thinking a picture of Morgan Freeman (what was he doing in a Basket ball site) was Bill Russell--among 100 other things.
Everyone will do it--if they are fortunate enough to live long enough for it to happen--.
Yesterday I said I'll never be old---shoosh--it's today!

 

[svetbird]

I don't remember it quite this way. She offered Griner knowing that she was okay, but essentially said why would you talk publicly about your sexuality. I don't think she was ever told that she wasn't welcome or that that she would be expelled for public displays (BYU's standard.) I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I don't remember Griner saying differently.

I don't like either side in the dispute but in her book Griner said Kim did not even let her know that Baylor would have an issue with her sexuality. I think Kim should let her kids know if school policy is in contradiction with there life style.

 

[CL82]

I don't like either side in the dispute but in her book Griner said Kim did not even let her know that Baylor would have an issue with her sexuality. I think Kim should let her kids know if school policy is in contradiction with there life style.

Fair enough. I thought she had said 'it wouldn't be a problem" or language to that effect, which was true but only as far basketball team, not the university in general.