IF ND joins ACC for all sports: Uconn vs. Rutgers

[SaeHusky]

Despite what others may think - I believe ND joining the ACC for all sports is a distinct possibility. In that scenario it comes down to Rutgers vs. Uconn. Until yesterday I thought there was now way Rutgers would be taken ahead of us due to slightly better academics and superior athletic programs. However after seeing how much more of the New York Market they have than us (20% to 5%) Im not sure who the ACC would take. What are the boards thoughts?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Swofford and the league presidents are absolute idiots if they took RU over UConn.

The only thing that RU has the edge over us is a part of the NYC market that they fail to deliver.

ACC learned their lesson the hard way with BCU.

 

[Murph]

We shouldn't forget that the Flipper anti-UConn campaign will begin again too.

 

[The Funster]

We shouldn't forget that the Flipper anti-UConn campaign will begin again too.

I've a feeling that Flipper and his anti-UConn sentiment has been marginalized. He saw to that himself.

 

[huskyrob1]

We shouldn't forget that the Flipper anti-UConn campaign will begin again too.

That may be true, but do the other ACC AD's want another so-so D1 football program along with absolutely sucky sucky men's and women's bball programs? Flipper might be outvoted in this one, but IMO it could go either way.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I've a feeling that Flipper and his anti-UConn sentiment has been marginalized. He saw to that himself.

Correct. Nobody in their right mind is going to take Flipper or Leahy seriously any longer after Flipper's idiotic comments. He all but rendered BCU impotent. My biggest fear is the football power brokers in the ACC still being concerned about turning the ACC too much toward hoops.

 

[Vuce]

Football is equal. We are light years ahead of Rutgers and right there with Dook and UNC in hoops. Tops in women's hoops. We also bring top notch men's and women's soccer which ND and the ACC care about to a degree. I think ND will push for UConn with them. I also think that the Flipper hurt BCU in that other AD's/Presidents were puzzled by his vitriol after all these years. In short, ND will be Uconn's ally if it comes to the ACC.

The ACC football schools will be happy with ND. The hoops schools will be satisfied with Uconn. It is a nice balance for each side. Rutgers nrings very little to either side. They are a filler.

 

[Hoophound]

I worry that Rutgers could be the choice but, I think my fears are unfounded. UConn is a marquee name in both men's and women's basketball. If you leave UConn out, you miss the opportunity to completely and indisputably wrap up the "best basketball conference" title. If ND goes somewhere other than the ACC, the ACC should take UConn and seriously consider Louisville as well. Rutgers just doesn't have any cache. UConn will own more NYC market share as the football program evolves. UConn will win in football. Winning is a choice. You make the investment and commitment to it and Herbst is clearly ready to do that.

 

[CTMike]

Despite what others may think - I believe ND joining the ACC for all sports is a distinct possibility. In that scenario it comes down to Rutgers vs. Uconn. Until yesterday I thought there was now way Rutgers would be taken ahead of us due to slightly better academics and superior athletic programs. However after seeing how much more of the New York Market they have than us (20% to 5%) Im not sure who the ACC would take. What are the boards thoughts?

While the numbers are correct, I think the NYT article puts them in the correct context :

"The most popular team in New York, for instance, is Rutgers. They have about 600,000 fans in New York City. That isn’t bad, but it represents only about 20 percent of college football fans in New York (in addition to some competing teams like Syracuse, many New Yorkers are transplants and bring their football loyalties with them). It also represents only about 3 percent of New York’s overall population."

My opinion is that our advantages in athletics and academics are enough to swing things in our favor. But, that's just me. I also think that Rutgers doesn't have as much room to grow the fanbase as we do. When the music stops I see UConn in ACC and Rutty in Big 10 or Big 12.

 

[upstater]

Despite what others may think - I believe ND joining the ACC for all sports is a distinct possibility. In that scenario it comes down to Rutgers vs. Uconn. Until yesterday I thought there was now way Rutgers would be taken ahead of us due to slightly better academics and superior athletic programs. However after seeing how much more of the New York Market they have than us (20% to 5%) Im not sure who the ACC would take. What are the boards thoughts?

Look at the study Nate Silver did. It was based on weird assumptions. 20% to 5% is meaningless. If Rutgers had 20% of the market, why did only 1.4% of the market watch their game against Louisville.

I'll say this again. Why did Silver do that study for the NYT when the Nielsen ratings already tell you everything you really need to know? It's bizarre.

I think Silver was just showing you his backroom fancy measurement devices rather than actually trying to gauge fan support.

 

[Excalibur]

Duke/UNC/Md will probably want UConn (definitely in the case of the first two) and if ND joins they'll get to tell FSU/Clemson that they got what they wanted for football with ND and now it's time to give the hoops-centric schools what they want. BC will do just about anything to avoid that. Who blinks first? What scares me is that we would be relying on Tobacco Road schools to hold their ground.

 

[tzznandrew]

Duke, UNC want to make sure basketball is still really good. Rutgers is slightly better in football; UConn is lightyears ahead in the rest of the athletic department.

Football roughly being equal, they'd be foolish not to take a whole department view.

 

[junglehusky]

My worry is that ACC coaches in multiple sports might think NJ makes for better recruiting territory than CT. But my guess is even if they do make that case, it's not going to be a primary factor when the presidents and ADs make the decision.

 

[Vuce]

But as someone else posted jungle, ND's prime recruiting area is NJ. So they would likely NOT want Rutgers there in the same league with them. I think this is a minor issue though.

 

[willie99]

people watch winners

no big difference in football

mega big difference in hoops

the NYT covers our women for Heaven's sake

we are the name brand

 

[UConn990411]

UConn has a better football program, makes a heck of a lot more money in basketball (the ACC cares more about bball than the other power conferences), has one of two women's programs that regularly churns out money and is better at pretty much every small sport (not that that holds a ton of weight, but it might matter, at least a little). Academics are close enough that that shouldn't make much of a difference. All Rutgers really has is the tri-state area, but I doubt they have a larger overall following than UConn.

This shouldn't be much of a decision, but of course, you never know. I doubt Notre Dame joins anyway, in which case the ACC might take both UConn and Rutgers.

 

[UConnRock]

It is not just men's and women's hoops that will impact the way ACC ADs or presidents look at the athletic programs. From a full athletic program perspective UConn has a top mens soccer team (#2 in the nation), a top field hockey team (#5 in the nation), a top 20 baseball team that knocked off ACC power Clemson in the CWS regional. UConn also has a long history of top women's soccer and has been near the top of the BE in track & field.

Rutgers has had a couple of decent womens hoops teams, but their time seems to have passed. They make an occasional run at conference championships in other sports, but have no consistant success, with the exception of wrestling where the ACC has only 6 other schools with wrestling programs.

The last thing the ACC wants in their conference is another BCU, where they are promised great media access, but fail miserably at all levels. Of all the men's and women's teams that play in the ACC there are only 2 BCU teams with .500 records in conference play. One was the 9-7 men's hoops team which were the remainder of the Skinner recruits and the other is the 5-4 women's soccer team.

 

[Drumguy]

I worry that Rutgers could be the choice but, I think my fears are unfounded. UConn is a marquee name in both men's and women's basketball. If you leave UConn out, you miss the opportunity to completely and indisputably wrap up the "best basketball conference" title. If ND goes somewhere other than the ACC, the ACC should take UConn and seriously consider Louisville as well. Rutgers just doesn't have any cache. UConn will own more NYC market share as the football program evolves. UConn will win in football. Winning is a choice. You make the investment and commitment to it and Herbst is clearly ready to do that.

+1. Lets not forget how newbie we really are in football and the strides made.

 

[metsfan2323]

Hopefully ND chooses the Big 10. I do not want our fate to rest on a coin flip between UCONN and Rutgers. If the Big 10 adds ND and Rutgers I believe the ACC will be compelled to add UCONN and either Louisville or Cincy.

 

[The Funster]

Hopefully ND chooses the Big 10. I do not want our fate to rest on a coin flip between UCONN and Rutgers. If the Big 10 adds ND and Rutgers I believe the ACC will be compelled to add UCONN and either Louisville or Cincy.

I would prefer the B1G bid, obviously but if ND and Rutgers went to the BiG, I agree that the ACC would be compelled to invite us because of our proximity to NYC.

To be honest, I think the ACC's best move that doesn't include ND would be to take UConn and WVU. Everyone complains about how small the WVU market is (and it is) but WVU is a football brand and travels well. It has a very loyal following.

 

[RS9999X]

Look at the study Nate Silver did. It was based on weird assumptions. 20% to 5% is meaningless. If Rutgers had 20% of the market, why did only 1.4% of the market watch their game against Louisville.
.

Silver pointed out correctly that NYC isn't a college sports town. As a college football market it's not much larger than Atlanta

He has Rutgers with 20% of the college market but only 3% of the NYC population can be identified as Rutger fans.

Professional media consultants purchase that info from Google anyway, Not just searches but all the advertising click throughs and Jersey/Logo Sales and everything else that values a team for advertisers. They can tell you the distribution of age brac kets and race for Rutgers fans and their expenditures and their response to targeted advertisements.

This site lists merchandise sales. CT averages about 50. Snookie (listed as the State University of New Jersey) runs about neck and neck when averaged over time..--

If they adopt the Red Dwarf logo watchout. Kids sales will explode,

http://www.clc.com/clcweb/publishing.nsf/Content/rankings.html

 

[Heston]

I've a feeling that Flipper and his anti-UConn sentiment has been marginalized. He saw to that himself.

Agreed. But I don't think Leahy at BC was far behind in his opposition, nor Miami.

 

[Heston]

Hopefully ND chooses the Big 10. I do not want our fate to rest on a coin flip between UCONN and Rutgers. If the Big 10 adds ND and Rutgers I believe the ACC will be compelled to add UCONN and either Louisville or Cincy.

Uconn is a "break even" addition for the ACC. What is needed is a partner that Uconn can go in with that is value add (i.e. tv money) or at least break even. Louisville might be able to do that. No way Cincy does.

The ACC will never take Cincy for a ton of reasons. The ACC will go west for Notre Dame or Texas, but not Cincy. Cincy adds very little for football. Louisville makes some sense for ACC. But to date, both ACC and SEC have honored their agreement not to add or poach schools in each others markets. I don't see the ACC poking the SEC by adding Louisville.

At the end of the day, if ND is off the table for the ACC and Rutgers goes to Big 10, I don't see reasons why the ACC expands any time soon if ever for Uconn.

 

[upstater]

Silver pointed out correctly that NYC isn't a college sports town. As a college football market it's not much larger than Atlanta

He has Rutgers with 20% of the college market but only 3% of the NYC population can be identified as Rutger fans.

Professional media consultants purchase that info from Google anyway, Not just searches but all the advertising click throughs and Jersey/Logo Sales and everything else that values a team for advertisers. They can tell you the distribution of age brac kets and race for Rutgers fans and their expenditures and their response to targeted advertisements.

This site lists merchandise sales. CT averages about 50. Snookie (listed as the State University of New Jersey) runs about neck and neck when averaged over time..--

If they adopt the Red Dwarf logo watchout. Kids sales will explode,

http://www.clc.com/clcweb/publishing.nsf/Content/rankings.html

Are we not talking about TV? This is what it's about. Not t-shirts.

 

[Heston]

I would prefer the B1G bid, obviously but if ND and Rutgers went to the BiG, I agree that the ACC would be compelled to invite us because of our proximity to NYC.

To be honest, I think the ACC's best move that doesn't include ND would be to take UConn and WVU. Everyone complains about how small the WVU market is (and it is) but WVU is a football brand and travels well. It has a very loyal following.

The ACC has passed on WVU twice. Oliver Luck called the ACC this time and really pushed and the ACC passed again. They have no interest in WVU.