if memory serves me right, when a certain coach south of here

[ctfjr]

Ice, to me it just didn't sound sincere. rather, the same old sarcasm.

Perhaps you could say exactly what you would expect him to say? In your own words of course. . .

 

[msf22b]

If I was unclear Nan, I apologize, that was not my intent at all.
What I was speaking of (and I'm afraid I'm initiating a new controversy) and this from second-hand remarks on the board describing the Presser was that Geno admitted to having some difficulties getting through to some players on the team.
This is sort of a new thing (lets not bring up Charde) for UCONN
This type of problem has been ascribed by fans of Tennessee as a four-year cancer with regard their current senior group. I have been preaching throughout the season, even before the losses, that this kind of situation can occur with any team, even ours.
It has not been a popular position.
There is to my mind on this board an unrealistic swagger, a conceit based on so many winning seasons.
I felt that it was unrealistic that this would continue forever and that folks should consider that sometimes, things don't quite work out as planned and that coaching today's teenagers comes with a certain peril. And yes...even Geno might be vulnerable.
This whole thing came to a head when I supported Sloan's thread on why Notre Dame might win and offered supporting data.
Doggy took exception and called me negative and the things have gone South from there.
I love the team as much as anyone; last year (when were in town), we religously drove up to Hartford and often Storrs for games. and down to Philly for the NCAA's
The only reason I wasn't there last night was that I've been ill.
But I'm also the type of fan that handicaps games according to what ever info is available and I'm willing to consider
that the team might lose on one occasion or another and am willing to say it.
I don't think I'm guilty of anything else.
If views like mine are not appropriate for this board, I won't post

 

[BooRadley]

We're all so quick to throw Pat and Viv and others under the bus for what seems to be similar issues.
Some similarities undoubtedly exist but hardly comparable situations. In my mind, it would be a mistake to assess these three teams and their individual situations as the relatively the same and therefore whats good for the goose is good for the gander criticism-wise. As the good padre pointed out, longevity of the issues are vastly different, as are the trend lines. We've gone flat since mid season, where the other two programs are delivering much more scattered results. Other differences exist but I am being called to help a friend, so gotta go....

I've been consistent all season in saying that it could anywhere, even here.
Well, Geno now acknowledges it has
What's so awful about highlighting it.
Nothing, but looking to the left the vast majority of the time does force a certain bias into one's perceptions & conclusions.

I know, it makes me negative!
Similarly, if you are seen to be magnetized to the negative, people will take that into their calculations and discount your conjectures. Developing a web persona happens when you aren't looking and you may be building a more negative persona than you are due. It may carry your logic just fine but completely fail to represent the balanced, thoughtful and decent person you are today and have always been.

Like correctly handicapping the game.
Obviously, when physically separated by the net, it's hard to convey all of the information that would be exchanged physically when people can see each other... so as we all know all too well, friction & misunderstandings spring to life like weeds in my flowerbeds. Even in face to face situations, content & style are keenly important and each are so very tricky in their own way. With your "correctly handicapping" statement I believe you've hit the epicenter of the friction you've received on this topic. WRT content, I don't assess the situations of CPS, CViv, & Geno as you do, leaving me to conclude you are NOT CORRECTLY handicapping the game, but beyond that, if a poll were taken, I would bet a fair number of respondents would "Like correctly handicapping the game", but few would write that because it reeks of arrogance. Words on a fan board are dicey things....

Your Ol' Pal Boo

 

[JS]

I have been preaching throughout the season, even before the losses, that this kind of situation can occur with any team, even ours.
It has not been a popular position.
There is to my mind on this board an unrealistic swagger, a conceit based on so many winning seasons.
* * *
If views like mine are not appropriate for this board, I won't post

There's a certain set of poster behaviors that aren't "inappropriate" for this board but are, nonetheless, a turnoff for many other posters. These include:

1. Lecturing the board as a whole about its attitudes.

2. Implying that others here are hypocrites for their partisanship.

3. Pursuing an "I told you so" campaign after negative events.

4. "Threatening" to take one's ball and go home on account of imaginary censorship.

My unsolicited advice to all such people: State your views, positive or negative, and refrain from such fervent attention to the perceived attitudinal failings of other posters.

 

[BooRadley]

In humble opinion. folks should be able to discuss and analyze issues w/o it getting personal or abusive.
I understand that this is a board for fans of UCONN as am I.
I'm not willing to be a sycophant when data goes against perceived realities even if unpleasant.
Is there even the slightest chance you may be misperceiving the data and possibly missing relevant data? Again, your statement as written reeks of arrogance.

So Sorry, I'll refrain from discussing things that might upset senior members
I believe you are missing the point.... many of us believed there was a fair chance if not a likelihood of a loss but hoped and cheered for a better outcome. I believe that in your effort to uncover the truth of the thing, your have fallen prey to an age old trap. The trap that guides one to believe negative data is true wile positive data is suspect at best. You appear to find comfort in the negative. Beyond that, the style you employ that creates the friction your are feeling. I don't believe you do this intentionally, but you do seem to have a penchant for arrogant postings.

And clearly, I never said in my lead up or handicapping that UCONN would have to have a "bad game" in order to lose. Rather I suggested that Notre Dame had the personnel and team integrity that might allow them to win

My ride is here... so, gotta go... back in an hour...

Your Ol' Pal Boo

 

[msf22b]

Thanks Boo and JS, I'll try harder

 

[UConnChapette]

I am so tired of this crap. Geno is a straight shooter. He calls it like he sees it. He pointed out what he sees as the problem with this team. They don't listen. He takes ownership, sarcastic or otherwise, because he hasn't been able to get through to them. How dare Geno even think about holding his players accountable! He should just pat them on the back, say good try and we'll get 'em next time, just keep doing exactly what your are doing, it will all work out. They are only kids, after all.

Why are some of his teams so successful? How has he been able to coach his teams to 7 national championships, and make it look so simple even when they play teams with superior talent, at least on paper? Why do other teams not quite live up to Geno's, and the fans, lofty expectations? What is the variable that accounts for that difference? It isn't the coaching staff, the core of which has been in place for 27 years. It isn't the uniforms, the shoes, the basketball, the size and shape of the court, the rules of the game. Those are the constants.

The variable is the individual players. At the end of every season they lose players. At the beginning of the next season they gain new players. The dynamics of the team changes every single year. The players are individuals with different personalities that collectively form the team personality. Sometimes the pieces fit together seamlessly, and the team's collective personality is very driven with everyone on the same page, focused on the task at hand, everyone listens and understands exactly what they need to do, and collectively go out and do it. But sometimes the individual personalities of the players are not all on the same page, sometimes they don't focus or understand what is being asked of them. Sometimes it just doesn't work out the way everyone expects.

I struggle with understanding why people are so quick to blame Geno when the team personality isn't quite as efficient or effective as previous teams. He teaches, he guides, he develops, he gives each player the tools they can use to be successful. Only the players can use those tools. If they choose not to listen or choose not to follow the game plan why is it wrong to hold the players accountable? Geno can and should take responsibility for choosing not to guard McBride. He can and should take responsibility when his defensive plan ends up being the wrong choice. He can and should take responsibility for failing to adjust his game plan during the game. But to expect him to take responsibility for the players not following a drawn up play, for taking bad shots, for committing silly fouls or bad turnovers...I don't get that. I really don't.

 

[semper]

This is a rebuilding year. We are doing just fine. Many of us expected this. I think some remembering our comments at the beginning of the year again would be a useful exercise.

 

[boontonbomber]

Perhaps you could say exactly what you would expect him to say? In your own words of course. . .

"WE got our butts kicked by a very strong ND team. now, back to practice to get some things ironed out."

 

[HuskyNan]

If views like mine are not appropriate for this board, I won't post

No, your views are as valid as anyone else's but they are outliers of the general population so people will disagree with you. As long as you know you will be a voice of a small, unpopular group and are willing to engage others in a civil discussion of your views, we're good.

 

[justML]

No, your views are as valid as anyone else's but they are outliers of the general population so people will disagree with you. As long as you know you will be a voice of a small, unpopular group and are willing to engage others in a civil discussion of your views, we're good.

I just heard Geno take equal responsibility for the loss after genuinely praising ND's team and individual players. I also liked how he gave Stef the credit she deserved for her game last night.

I have no problem with anything I heard in that presser.

 

[boontonbomber]

There's a certain set of poster behaviors that aren't "inappropriate" for this board but are, nonetheless, a turnoff for many other posters. These include:

1. Lecturing the board as a whole about its attitudes.

2. Implying that others here are hypocrites for their partisanship.

3. Pursuing an "I told you so" campaign after negative events.

4. "Threatening" to take one's ball and go home on account of imaginary censorship.

My unsolicited advice to all such people: State your views, positive or negative, and refrain from such fervent attention to the perceived attitudinal failings of other posters.

are you saying that it's all right to be hypocritical if it's due to your being partisan?

 

[HuskyNan]

are you saying that it's all right to be hypocritical if it's due to your being partisan?

Your hypocrisy is another fan's logic.

If you disagree with someone you're welcome to post your views, which you did, and now people are disagreeing with you. Seems to me this is the basic function of a fan forum, to provide a place for fans to express all kinds of opinions, no matter what label is slapped on them by people with opposing points of view.

 

[JS]

are you saying that it's all right to be hypocritical if it's due to your being partisan?

I'm saying whether it is or isn't "all right" in your view, you aren't going to change people's behavior in a partisan sports forum by demanding they meet your standards of even-handedness.

I'm saying that, in order to disagree with what others say, you don't have to be disagreeable -- or preach at them that their judgments on one situation require that they speak up with similar judgments elsewhere.

And most pointedly, I'm saying that, in the present context, you can't go calling people out for something as personal as your perception of their hypocrisy without being considered obnoxious.

That's what I'm saying. If you want to argue further, you're welcome to take it to PM.

 

[Dairyair]

I am so tired of this crap. Geno is a straight shooter. He calls it like he sees it. He pointed out what he sees as the problem with this team. They don't listen. He takes ownership, sarcastic or otherwise, because he hasn't been able to get through to them. How dare Geno even think about holding his players accountable! He should just pat them on the back, say good try and we'll get 'em next time, just keep doing exactly what your are doing, it will all work out. They are only kids, after all.

Why are some of his teams so successful? How has he been able to coach his teams to 7 national championships, and make it look so simple even when they play teams with superior talent, at least on paper? Why do other teams not quite live up to Geno's, and the fans, lofty expectations? What is the variable that accounts for that difference? It isn't the coaching staff, the core of which has been in place for 27 years. It isn't the uniforms, the shoes, the basketball, the size and shape of the court, the rules of the game. Those are the constants.

The variable is the individual players. At the end of every season they lose players. At the beginning of the next season they gain new players. The dynamics of the team changes every single year. The players are individuals with different personalities that collectively form the team personality. Sometimes the pieces fit together seamlessly, and the team's collective personality is very driven with everyone on the same page, focused on the task at hand, everyone listens and understands exactly what they need to do, and collectively go out and do it. But sometimes the individual personalities of the players are not all on the same page, sometimes they don't focus or understand what is being asked of them. Sometimes it just doesn't work out the way everyone expects.

I struggle with understanding why people are so quick to blame Geno when the team personality isn't quite as efficient or effective as previous teams. He teaches, he guides, he develops, he gives each player the tools they can use to be successful. Only the players can use those tools. If they choose not to listen or choose not to follow the game plan why is it wrong to hold the players accountable? Geno can and should take responsibility for choosing not to guard McBride. He can and should take responsibility when his defensive plan ends up being the wrong choice. He can and should take responsibility for failing to adjust his game plan during the game. But to expect him to take responsibility for the players not following a drawn up play, for taking bad shots, for committing silly fouls or bad turnovers...I don't get that. I really don't.

GREAT post Chappy! We have been so spoiled over the years, we forget we are dealing with young people. It's really surprising that we've had so many teams that COULD and DID follow the game plans over the years. I still have faith in this group...there is a lot of talent on this team, and there is still time to pull things together. Love to be a fly on the wall at this week's practices.

 

[Icebear]

Dairy, spot on, Chap great post. Beginning of the season I expected two to four losses, it will now likely be more but there is a distinct possibility 5 of those losses will come at the hands of two teams. I suggested that we had a chance to win the NC but that the FF was the likely outcome. That all still seems very possible.

This team is tremendous. They are so talented AND they are so young. More important than the lessons Geno is teaching them about how to win, or more accurately, how to battle, not fight, battle, is the what he is teaching them about how to battle in life. Those lessons include how to struggle against the impulses wIthin oneself by gaining the personal discipline to succeed and achieve one's goals. Geno knows that story from his eight year old childhood landing in a land where he didn't't even speak the language. His desire for these kids is to be winners but not just on the court but off the court which is far more enduring. At 17, 18, even 22 years old these kids can not fully comprehend what he is trying to offer them and to challenge them to do, but the truth is that it is about them and their future not his. His was secured long ago. It isn't something you can just hand to someone. You need to challenge them to battle for it.

BTW, I expect Geno would tell us that includes battling through one's own screw ups, self inflicted wounds and doubts. He knows he isn't perfect. He knows he screws up but he doesn't have time for those who delight in those moments or who bandy about I told you so. He is too busy helping others learn how to pursue there dreams. Sometimes like all of us he is just as infuriating as those kids who make him old before his time and at the same time keep him young.

 

[JonB]

This is a rebuilding year. We are doing just fine. Many of us expected this. I think some remembering our comments at the beginning of the year again would be a useful exercise.

This. And for some additional perspective, consider how people would view the men's team if it were 26-4 and ranked 4th in the country. Yes, I know the women's game is not the men's game, and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't be disappointed, but let's not jump off a bridge just yet! Only at UConn would a record like this year's be a "rebuilding" year.

Personally, I'm looking forward to 5 fun-filled days at the BET, highlighted by seeing just how UConn responds.

 

[meyers7]

Your hypocrisy is another fan's logic.

As I've said many times, everybody is a hypocrite........in one way or another.

 

[boontonbomber]

boon,

"i have not read in any of Geno's comments anything remotely sounding like the coaches also have to take some responsibility for what happened last night."
Geno did indeed toss himself under the bus. Apparently, he wanted to enjoy his under-carriage time in the company of these fine young players.
It is this assessing of blame on the players that appears to bother you and "lots of boneyarders" but is fine with me and lots of Boneyarders. If clear of all other issues, including those issues that are unknown to you & I, but know to the coaches, I might be able to find a way to agree with you, if I could be convinced that each and every one of them played to their own average or better abilities as displayed this season and last season....
Others have pointed out his "responsible for" statements.... sarcasm aside, his words on this are there to be found.... Overall, his statements seemed to be balanced, honest, and completely fair in his assessment as the disappointed coach.

Wrt, the second higlighted sentence::: he did not "throw all the blame on the players" he accepted responsibility for part of this failure.


Your Ol' Pal Boo

Boo,
i don't have a problem with players being called out for not hustling and not listening . and i have no problem with geno , or any coach, doing that. what i want to hear from the coach in that situation , though, is something like," certain players are not hustling and not listening, and we've got to find a way to get through to them, because we haven't done a very good job at that". end of comments. blame spread all around. unfortunately,i find it very hard to cast the sarcasm aside, and hear real sincerity. maybe if he somehow could stop being a sarcastic wise-ass so much of the time, i would get better at taking him seriously. i would feel a whole lot better if i felt that he honestly felt like he'd done a lousy job in getting those players to listen. maybe he does, but when he says that" they won't listen to anybody ", to me it sounds a bit like he's taking himself and the other coaches off the hook.


btw, i must say that off all the posters here, i usually find your comments quite measured, thoughtful, and very worthwhile to read. thanks for your efforts, Boo.

 

[UConnChapette]

i don't have a problem with players being called out for not hustling and not listening . and i have no problem with geno , or any coach, doing that. what i want to hear from the coach in that situation , though, is something like," certain players are not hustling and not listening, and we've got to find a way to get through to them, because we haven't done a very good job at that". end of comments. blame spread all around. unfortunately,i find it very hard to cast the sarcasm aside, and hear real sincerity. maybe if he somehow could stop being a sarcastic wise-ass so much of the time, i would get better at taking him seriously. i would feel a whole lot better if i felt that he honestly felt like he'd done a lousy job in getting those players to listen. maybe he does, but when he says that" they won't listen to anybody ", it sounds to me like he's taking himself and the other coaches off the hook.

btw, i must say that off all the posters here, i usually find your comments quite measured, thoughtful, and very worthwhile to read. thanks for your efforts, Boo.

Boon,


If you wouldn't mind, I would love to hear your suggestion(s) on how to get someone to listen? What specifically should Geno do in order to do a better job at getting them to listen and follow his instructions and game plan?

And just to level set, my interpretation of what Geno means by "listen" is not just hearing his words. It is digesting what he says, understanding what he is saying, and then following through with what he has said by doing it.

I know of no fool-proof way Geno can get the players to follow his instructions. But you seem to think there is a way, so please do share your thoughts. I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am truly curious.

 

[BooRadley]

After rereading my comments of last night, I want to tell you that I might have found better words to say what I wanted to say to you. Fatigue and worry are trying to get a grip on me right now... My uncle, a man that has been a hero to myself and my brothers since before I stepped foot into kindergarten has just been diagnosed with bone cancer [stage 4]. In november he stood 6 foot 3 inches... Yesterday, he was measured at 5 foot 7 inches. The cancer is in every vertebrae, every rib, his skull and pelvis. He is in a lot of pain and there is not much we can do... We are in the midst of moving him to another program. He is in his late 60's... I hit 60 last summer. We are all too young for this.... I'm not supposed to lose my uncle for another fifteen years.

I lost my wife about fifteen years back and as the unmarried brother, I am the one to be the primary caretaker for my parents. My 85 year old mom is a joy and quite a handful. It seems like just yesterday that I was a young Marine and then a young mathematician & Software Engineer. As carefree as could be... In the last 20 years, I've spent 3 years care-taking a great aunt with Alzheimer's until she needed care beyond my skill level, several years care-taking my dad who had leukemia/CHF and about 10 years care-taking my mom who is lucid but has a body that betrays her on a daily basis. All of this has me a bit worn out and I find myself slipping into more snark than substance. I don't need sympathy or even understanding, I just need a week or two resting on a boat with a line in the water. The truth is, there are so many others here that deal with more on a daily basis. I have no room to complain. My life is very good. I just hope I don't loose it out of exhaustion and get myself tangled up in some childishly mean spirited board brawl.

Anyway, I have also enjoyed your postings... If I get out of line, just give me the proverbial slap to the back of my head and I'll reboot. I've got the skin of a Rhino... I can take a good whack on the head if/when I get out of line.

Your Ol' Pal Boo

 

[boontonbomber]

Boon,


If you wouldn't mind, I would love to hear your suggestion(s) on how to get someone to listen? What specifically should Geno do in order to do a better job at getting them to listen and follow his instructions and game plan?

And just to level set, my interpretation of what Geno means by "listen" is not just hearing his words. It is digesting what he says, understanding what he is saying, and then following through with what he has said by doing it.

I know of no fool-proof way Geno can get the players to follow his instructions. But you seem to think there is a way, so please do share your thoughts. I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am truly curious.

UconnChapette,
that makes two of us who don't know, though it does bring to mind the story about the farmer who was very good at getting mules to do what he wanted them to do. something about a 2 by 4 piece of wood. that said, wouldn't you think,though, that a hall of fame coach and 3 assistants, after working with these players for many months, would know ? it can't be easy, especially with the frosh, but it seems like certain basic things, like whether they're playing zone or man-to-man when they go back on the court after a timeout, shouldn't be that hard to communicate. i say that because someone here said that it looked like there was a mix-up in that regard after one of the timeouts late in the ND game. how does that happen?

 

[Sonny44]

Unbelievable tension around this site lately.

Hey, we're a young team with less than the usual level of talent that we're accustomed to here, and we are what 21 - 4?, probably the 3rd best team in the country with a high probability of the final four in the NCAA.
Why are we looking to blame the coaches, the players, the refs, etc? I say there's nothing to blame. The team has played up to almost everyone's early season expectations.

Also, IMHO we have become increasingly intolerant of other poster's observations/ideas of how the team can improve, sometimes picking apart their messages line by line. It's well known that if 10 people witness an event you'll get 10 different interpretations of what happened; that's just human nature.

I say relax a little and enjoy the best sports program in the world.

 

[UConnChapette]

Boo,
that makes two of us who don't know, though it does bring to mind the story about the farmer who was very good at getting mules to do what he wanted them to do. something about a 2 by 4 piece of wood. that said, wouldn't you think,though, that a hall of fame coach and 3 assistants, after working with these players for many months, would know ? it can't be easy, especially with the frosh, but it seems like certain basic things, like whether they're playing zone or man-to-man when they go back on the court after a timeout, shouldn't be that hard to communicate. i say that because someone here said that it looked like there was a mix-up in that regard after one of the timeouts late in the ND game. how does that happen?

I'm not Boo, but I will answer your question.

It happens when kids don't listen and follow direction. I still don't get how that is Geno's fault?

 

[boontonbomber]

I'm not Boo, but I will answer your question.

It happens when kids don't listen and follow direction. I still don't get how that is Geno's fault?

sorry about the Boo. i made the edit, but it didn't go through. my earlier question was really the more important one: wouldn't you expect a hall of fame coach and 3 assistants, after months of working with these players , to have some idea? but you still may not think that it's their fault.