If Geno could do it--Why can't any coach?

[BroadwayVa]

First of all, great question. Second of all, I applaud Calhoun also, who, along with Geno, took a slower program and elevated them to the top of the heap on a national level..... that is far different from Bill Self taking the Kansas reins or Alford at UCLA..... hard to build up from the bottom, and it really requires quite a vision and definitely a multi-part process plan.

There is no question that we are lucky to have Geno and CD..... they work so well together and are uber competent.... both keen basketball minds..... and I totally agree with what everyone has said here on this thread....

I have an unusual, unconventional answer to the title.... "why cannot any coach do it like Geno?" I truly believe that at some level, nobody does it like Geno because THEY ARE NOT FORCED to..... with very few exceptions..... Muffet being one.... precious few coaches come close to Geno..... and I really think that the bar is so low in WCBB for "getting by" ,..... I think many coaches are content to pocket their half million a year and live life comfortably.....

Yes, coaches have seen what he does and try and replicate PARTS of what he does, but the comprehensive schtick we are fortunate to have at UConn, I do not think others are willing to live up to..... the demanding practices..... for instance.... what other team is in as good shape as the Huskies? All the "Atta Girl" coaches.... who are "player's coaches" who do not get the potential from their players.... referring back to my previous paragraph, if in men's NCAA hoops, there is an "atta boy" coach, who allows too much, and demands too little, he will probably be fired in short time..... WCBB coaching is almost like a de facto tenure track position!!! Even when the hammer falls, it is often well after it should have fallen (Jim Foster?).....

Let's face it ... it is HARD to replicate UConn's program..... but it is not a mystery ..... the things Geno and his staff does..... It is all out there for many to see..... that is why I say that the desire to adopt the FULL breadth of the Geno-CD approach is less than a 100% fire in the belly commitment. That is my opinion.

I like what you say----it is HARD WORK to always be on top of every minute part of practices and games. Even other Div 1 coaches find it easier to be "a friend" than a coach and mentor. I think the short answer is as hard as the work is Geno loves it.

 

[j66kicker]

Therein begs the question--why not? American egos being what they are, national, local, college teams expect to win--certainly their Alums and fans will go away if they don't.

Why not the expectations for conditioning, effort and execution of the basics nearing perfection? Maybe there just aren't enough women coaches that really truly know what this is on the "extreme" end, since there isn't a long history of women achieving that level of basketball competitiveness. In this way being male was probably an advantage for Geno.

Obviously there are other, less successful, male coaches. IMO part of what sets Geno apart is he realizes his expectations for effort are off-the-charts higher than the norm for women, and is able to identify and recruit players who are willing to make that level of commitment. Also, by definition, they are willing to play for a male coach (or want to, a la DT: "If I'm going to have someone screaming at me, I want it to be a man.").

Finally, I also suspect he prioritizes intelligence, is able to identify smarter players, and has the discipline to eliminate less intelligent prospects regardless of physical talent and recruiting rankings. (Tennessee Titans [formerly Houston Oilers] owner Bud Adams was infatuated with Vince Young, a Houston native and star QB at Texas, and wasted a high first-round draft choice (3rd overall) on him despite Young's record lowest-ever Wonderlic score. This is an extreme example, but I bet Geno's "system" includes a basic intelligence element.)

 

[BroadwayVa]

Why not the expectations for conditioning, effort and execution of the basics nearing perfection? Maybe there just aren't enough women coaches that really truly know what this is on the "extreme" end, since there isn't a long history of women achieving that level of basketball competitiveness. In this way being male was probably an advantage for Geno.

Obviously there are other, less successful, male coaches. IMO part of what sets Geno apart is he realizes his expectations for effort are off-the-charts higher than the norm for women, and is able to identify and recruit players who are willing to make that level of commitment. Also, by definition, they are willing to play for a male coach (or want to, a la DT: "If I'm going to have someone screaming at me, I want it to be a man.").

Finally, I also suspect he prioritizes intelligence, is able to identify smarter players, and has the discipline to eliminate less intelligent prospects regardless of physical talent and recruiting rankings. (Tennessee Titans [formerly Houston Oilers] owner Bud Adams was infatuated with Vince Young, a Houston native and star QB at Texas, and wasted a high first-round draft choice (3rd overall) on him despite Young's record lowest-ever Wonderlic score. This is an extreme example, but I bet Geno's "system" includes a basic intelligence element.)

The contributions and of Christine Dailey and where the program would be without her--is a whole other thread. Hopefully, someone will ask that in a thread. But by no means can it be overlooked in terms of Uconn WBB success.

 

[Waquoit]

Right now, the UConn women's basketball program is like a gigantic flywheel that will continue to power on for as long Geno is there. He is the preeminent coach of his sport in the world. If you are a great player and want to be greater, you would want to work with him. Just like if you were a special young musician or mathmetician or scientist you would want to attend a college with the best in your field.

And just like a flywheel can't stop suddenly, it took a while the Huskies to become the force it has. I'm not sure it can be duplicated as the journey started at the perfect time. Like others have mentioned, Geno treated his team like basketball players from the start, not "lady" basketball players. That philosphy mattered because it allowed him to ignore the existing paradigm which downplayed skill and favored physicality and toughness. PHS was all about defense and rebounding, stuff like shooting and running offense took a backseat. It didn't mattered if you couldn't make a jump shot, just getting it to the rim was good enough because their athletes would clean the offensive boards. Doesn't take much skill to make a lay-up. When Geno finally had the team to put it all together, the result was the famous backdoor festival of 2000.
The PHS way was gone for good, Geno's way of letting skilled players use their skill was now the standard and the sport was better for it. My favorite outcome was when PHS announced that she was going to meet with John Wooden to work on updating her approach. Geno didn't need to meet with Wooden, he was studying Wooden 20 years earlier.

But getting back to the original question, why can't other coaches do what Geno does? To a certain extent some like Mulkey and Muffet do. They put a top team out there every year. But to become the iconic success Geno's become, I'm not sure that can happen at this time. When Geno started, he created a different, better way to coach the game. Nowadays, Geno's way is THE way. And I don't see anyone out there out-Genoing Geno. He's the GOAT, period.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Why not the expectations for conditioning, effort and execution of the basics nearing perfection? Maybe there just aren't enough women coaches that really truly know what this is on the "extreme" end, since there isn't a long history of women achieving that level of basketball competitiveness. In this way being male was probably an advantage for Geno.

Obviously there are other, less successful, male coaches. IMO part of what sets Geno apart is he realizes his expectations for effort are off-the-charts higher than the norm for women, and is able to identify and recruit players who are willing to make that level of commitment. Also, by definition, they are willing to play for a male coach (or want to, a la DT: "If I'm going to have someone screaming at me, I want it to be a man.").

Finally, I also suspect he prioritizes intelligence, is able to identify smarter players, and has the discipline to eliminate less intelligent prospects regardless of physical talent and recruiting rankings. (Tennessee Titans [formerly Houston Oilers] owner Bud Adams was infatuated with Vince Young, a Houston native and star QB at Texas, and wasted a high first-round draft choice (3rd overall) on him despite Young's record lowest-ever Wonderlic score. This is an extreme example, but I bet Geno's "system" includes a basic intelligence element.)

1. Not only an extreme example, but one totally unnecessary that does not make your point.
2. Vince Young having the lowest ever Wonderlic score is untrue. Totally untrue. He had the same score as Dan Marino.
3. Vince Young not only led Texas to the national championship, but was the AFC Rookie of the Year. If a high draft choice was wasted, it was not because Vince Young lacked the necessary intelligence.

You cannot tell me that Coach Auriemma is constantly recruiting student-athletes like Rebecca Lobo, Sue Bird, and Nicole Wolff.

 

[VAUConnFan]

I think he made a choice early on to not to recruit players with big-mouth fathers, no matter how highly-ranked they are. That set the right tone.

He tried very hard to recruit Brittany Hunter. Her stepfather was a royal pita, but he would have loved to have her. In fact, he DID love to have her, even after she blew out he knee.

1. Give me one player UConn backed away from recruiting because of an overzealous father.
2. IIRC, it was Ms Hunter's mother with whom the UConn staff had issues.

 

[ChicagoGG]

IS THERE A FORMULA THAT CAN BE PUT FORTH THAT WILL GIVE--SAY WALZ (AT LOUISVILLE) A MAP TO GOING TOE TO TOE WITH GENO??

NO.

 

[Waquoit]

1. Give me one player UConn backed away from recruiting because of an overzealous father.

Tracy Lis

 

[VAUConnFan]

Tracy Lis

A good ballplayer, Miss Lis about whom I know absolutely nothing about her recruitment, so will have to take your word for it.

 

[HuskyNan]

1. Give me one player UConn backed away from recruiting because of an overzealous father.
2. IIRC, it was Ms Hunter's mother with whom the UConn staff had issues.

1. Ariel Massengale
2. No, it was the step-dad. He was actually a mod on the Duke board and liked to trash talk Geno. Guy is a loon.

 

[wire chief]

The uniqueness of a Steve Jobs brilliance as applied to bball, seeing a totality beyond anyone else.
Though it may be GA/CD synthesis that's crucial.

 

[VAUConnFan]

1. Ariel Massengale
2. No, it was the step-dad. He was actually a mod on the Duke board and liked to trash talk Geno. Guy is a loon.

As with Tracy Lis, your word is going to have to be accepted on both Ms Massengale, about whose recruitment I know nothing ,and Ms Hunter's stepfather who gets mentioned very briefly in In Pursuit of Perfection.

 

[Waquoit]

As with Tracy Lis, your word is going to have to be accepted on both Ms Massengale, about whose recruitment I know nothing ,and Ms Hunter's stepfather who gets mentioned very briefly in In Pursuit of Perfection.

OK, but what point were you trying to make by calling me out?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Hey Grayjay - I agree. IMHO this is one of the foundations of Geno's success. Geno has said it numerous times--"It is harder and harder to find the right players for UConn." Why? Because Geno/CD have a long list of personal qualities that supersede the BB talent.

What has Tenn., Baylor & South Carolina done in the past year? IMO, They have taken in recruits and transfers based mainly (maybe or maybe not 100%) ON TALENT or ranking!! On this board there have always been arguments about why Geno did not offer this player or that player. Also, there has been head scratching when Geno gives a quick offer to someone with a low ranking (Irwin or Bent.) Only Geno knows.
In addition - only a few posters have emphasized that UConn has 2 great head coaches (unofficially) and a great supporting staff. Geno/CD know that there are a finite number of skills that are necessary to be a champion. Visiting coaches and players see a practice and notice that certain elements are done OVER & OVER & OVER & OVER & OVER. Also, CD is even more relentless than Geno in reminding players about details. DT has made jokes about CD numerous times. She was like a "Chatty Kathy Doll" reminding them over & over & over. Even Dawn Staley has mentioned that she does not run her practices like UConn because she does not agree with the emphasis of repetition-(not at UConn level.) Of course, many visiting players see that as too much work and are not interested. Bobby Knight said, "the will to win is the will to work."
IMHO these are just two of many reasons why coaches don't follow Geno's system exactly. They either can't be that single-minded (they don't have a CD either) or they have their own style. Most coaches are working their butts off. However, PERFECT practice makes perfect. Just working hard does not always do the trick.

A small or not so small demurrer: Most coaches do not work their butts off according to a guy I trust a lot. Geno.

 

[VAUConnFan]

OK, but what point were you trying to make by calling me out?

Prior to your mentioning it as a UConn standard, I had not heard of UConn backing off of a recruit because of an overzealous father and wanted to learn more. There have been many stories of wary parents who were eventually won over, none of which specifically mentioned a skeptical father.

 

[svetbird]

among so many things listed he also changes his system to fit what players he has, not the ones he wishes he had. For all his bluster Geno is completely willing to grow and change where many seem to think they know everything.

 

[svetbird]

Combination of luck and great talent evaluation, along with player development:

1. Uconn was 9-18 in 1984-85 and improved to 12-15 in Geno's first season, then to 14-13 in his second. That serves as evidence to me that Geno was already a good developer of talent.

2. Kerry Bascom came at the right place and time with his mother's unfortunate health, desire to stay close to home as a result, and Geno's refreshing honesty. She pushed the program forward in a way that included uconn's first league championships, NCAA tournament appearances, and first trip to the Final Four in 1991.

3. This F4 bid coincided well with the success of the men's team, what with the NIT championship, the great run to the Elite 8' in 1990, and the unveiling of Gampel. This view of Uconn basketball as a whole on the rise is what Rebecca Lobo says in hindsight she wanted to join and bring to the top.

4. With Lobo, Geno had talent. Now, he had the opportunity to make great talent evaluations. In 19992, what a class he had: jamellle Elliott and Jen Rizzotti.. Any questions there?

5. Another great talent evaluation: Kara Wolters in 1993. Meanwhile, 1994 brought on the first national #1 high school recruit in nykesha Sales who a) got to witness that Uconn was headed in right direction, and b) just happened to live in Bloomfield, CT. Finally, Uconn now also had added two more excellent role players in Carla Berube and Pam Webber. Add these two to Jen, jamellle, nykesha, Kara, and Rebecca, and Geno has assembled his championship squad.

Geno went on to win a national championship in 1995 on the strength of a 35-0 record. Quite a step above 9-18, huh?

From there, Geno evaluates talent, recruits well along with his coaching staff, and develops talent beautifully along with CD ( another reason in herself that Geno does it). That is how he's gone from a losing program to championship to dynasty to "bad for the sport".

His ability to asses talent is incredible. To this day he doesn't sit back and figure he will just go after the number 1-50 recruits. He finds strong pieces (Dolson, Nurse...who are not highly recruited or thought of) and makes them into far better players than anyone thought they would be.

 

[Zorro]

If Beethoven could write 9 (or mebbe 9 1/2) great symphonies, why couldn't anybody?

 

[JS]

Prior to your mentioning it as a UConn standard, I had not heard of UConn backing off of a recruit because of an overzealous father and wanted to learn more. There have been many stories of wary parents who were eventually won over, none of which specifically mentioned a skeptical father.

It's not a skeptical father that's typically the problem, but one who comes on too strong, suggesting a potential for interference with the coaching process. This may be evident from demands during the recruitment or from a track record.

Other teams (I'm thinking Tennessee) have overlooked this factor to their regret. And there are more UConn turn-away examples than just Massengale, but it wouldn't be politic to name names. You could PM me if you want.

Waquoit's interpretation of your tone, BTW, was not unreasonable.

 

[Biff]

It's not a skeptical father that's typically the problem, but one comes on too strong, suggesting a potential for interference with the coaching process. This may be evident from demands during the recruitment or from a track record.

Other teams (I'm thinking Tennessee) have overlooked this factor to their regret. And there are more UConn turn-away examples than just Massengale, but it wouldn't be politic to name names. You could PM me if you want.

Waquoit's interpretation of your tone, BTW, was not unreasonable.

JS. Here's one from the past that applies to this subject. I'm sure you recall the reference.

BTW, In looking for this I found lots of stuff from over the years. Trouble is I can't remember the story behind many of the comics. I'm sure they were all funny at the time however.

 

[Zorro]

Mothers, too, have been known to be mega pains in the arse.

 

[JS]

JS. Here's one from the past that applies to this subject. I'm sure you recall the reference.

Why bless my soul, it's Oldie! Therein lies a tale.

Brittany Hunter's stepdad posted under the handle Newbie. At one time he pursued an anti-Geno campaign on the Duke board, saying he'd badmouth Geno to other player parents. His symbol for "blowing Geno's house down" was a Big Bad Wolf logo.

It was difficult to combat Newbie, because no one wanted to alienate Britt's family by calling him out -- until a champion appeared! Biff created the gif for Oldie, a cantankerous coot whose coughing breath resembled the Big Bad Wolf logo's huffing and puffing.

Except that Oldie directly battled Newbie, subtly and not so subtly implying that the latter was a flake and a blowhard. The tide turned, and down went the Wolf, courtesy of a knock or two in the chops from Oldie's cane.

The Wolf recovered enough, I'm glad to say, that he hobbled out on the court at Britt's UConn Senior Night to shake hands with Geno, and they all lived happily ever after.

 

[Zorro]

As with Tracy Lis, your word is going to have to be accepted on both Ms Massengale, about whose recruitment I know nothing ,and Ms Hunter's stepfather who gets mentioned very briefly in In Pursuit of Perfection.

Nan's word can always be accepted!

 

[Gus Mahler]

This is Kareem's statue at the Staples Center. He basically had to beg for it, long after Magic got his ...
View attachment 11566

I think Kareem probably deserved his statue at Staples. My point was that I don't think there are any statues of UCLA players at UCLA.

 

[Gus Mahler]

There's a statue of Wooden in Indianapolis.

Was there a Nike Swoosh when Wooden coached? [see lower left]