I think we need a little perspective...

[Pudge]

I look at Maryland.

Mark Turgeon was the mirror image of Randy Edsall there. The fanbase was very disappointed. Now they're pointed to as a Team contending.

One Freshman guard leads. And their nucleus all are one year more experienced ... And better. Probably one more experienced Add. In CBB, this turns quick. And UConn fans have seen this repeatedly. Jalen Adams ... Let's go - big expectations.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

When you do it over and over again, it's whining.

You want to point out where I keep saying this? It's only to rebuttal people such as yourself.

I said it's about conference realignment. One sentence. You and everyone else created the debate yourself.

 

[businesslawyer]

Marcus Williams was a better "point guard" than Kemba, Napier or Boat.

However, Kemba, Napier and Boat's "greatness" definitely exceeds Williams.

Still think to say Boat didn't make his teammates better is a pretty naive statement. Just the simple fact other teams geared their D to stop him every single game created looks and opportunities for other guys.

1. Marcus Williams couldn't guard my sandwich in a locked refrigerator. He might have been a better pure passer than Kemba or Shabazz, but as an all around point guard absolutely no way. Being more "prototypical" does not make you better.

2. On Boat, this seems like one where you seem to be fighting to disagree over nothing. Our team was much better because Boat was on it. But part of the role of a point guard is getting other people their shots in the right place in the right time. Boat was, frankly, not good enough at that. Shabazz and Kemba absolutely were good at that (hence, the rings), even if they were also more of scoring threats than Marcus.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

1. Marcus Williams couldn't guard my sandwich in a locked refrigerator. He might have been a better pure passer than Kemba or Shabazz, but as an all around point guard absolutely no way. Being more "prototypical" does not make you better.

2. On Boat, this seems like one where you seem to be fighting to disagree over nothing. Our team was much better because Boat was on it. But part of the role of a point guard is getting other people their shots in the right place in the right time. Boat was, frankly, not good enough at that. Shabazz and Kemba absolutely were good at that (hence, the rings), even if they were also more of scoring threats than Marcus.

This is semantics then, I thought you were arguing the prototypical angle.

I rank them Napier, Walker, big gap, Boat, Marcus.

Marcus was the best pure passer, I've ever seen at UConn.

Boat certainly isn't on Kemba or Napier's level with anything on court.

Boat wasn't a great facilitator, but at the same time, he was only our true PG for one year, was asked to shoulder the scoring every single night and defenses sold out to stop him.

On a different team, with better teammates, it could've been a different story.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

So are you saying that people don't have the right to react to what they have seen this year and to be concerned going forward? Seriously, this isn't about being "jaded and entitled". A disappointing season has just come to an end so to not expect people to vent about it is beyond silly.

What exactly did you see this year?
We did not play well enough yo get into the tournament regardless of conference..
So blaming the AAC for this year is childish. We lost 3 games at Gambel to mediocre teams. Without winning the tourney, we would have had to win , Those three plus, temple at home,( we played them when they were short handed plus Houston.
We would have been safely in. If we did that and were denied than we would have had a legitimate grip against our conference.
We lost two guys to the NBA draft two more to European leagues.
We had RB back, to play both 1 and 2 guard at the same time. He did the best he could but as other people mentioned he was not a natual PG
Would the team have been better with Kemba or SN instead .
Probably , they had that KAM swagger that said "I'm in charge out here and if you follow me we can't lose."They especially KW made everyone around him better .All three had BB IQ 's through the roof.
Do you understand how rare that gift is and how fortunate we've been.
It's not by accident that those guys all have rings.
Boat led by example ,he left is all on the floor , what more could we possibly ask.
For a kid whose only Idea of an entry pass when he got here was an Alley-Oop
To make himself into a darn good point is something he and all of us should be proud of.

 

[tzznandrew]

Boat certainly isn't on Kemba or Napier's level with anything on court.

I agree with everything except this:

Defense.

He was a lock-down defender.

It was harder for him to do that this year and shoulder the burden of scoring. Much as Kemba was a "better" defender freshman and sophomore year, and then we put him on the opponent's weakest link his junior year to save him.

Boat didn't always have that luxury. He was the only consistent offensive threat, and he was also the best on the ball defender, so he was often guarding their best players.

I don't think he was a poor facilitator. He just needed someone else to consistently step up. Even then, though, that wasn't his particular strength.

He was probably the best combination of scoring and defense we had at the 1 though.

 

[SubbaBub]

Boat is right there in Uconn history with anyone you wish to match him against.

Early in 2013-14, he was a concern and a liability at times. By the end of that season he was a champion and this season became an all- time Uconn great

If those he leaves behind follow his example, championship #5 isn't too far down the road.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I don't think he was a poor facilitator. He just needed someone else to consistently step up. Even then, though, that wasn't his particular strength.

Was Kemba a better facilitator than Boatright, or did he just have better options? Serious question. The knock on Boatright as a facilitator or "pure point guard" - whatever that means - has to consider how limited this offense was.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

We are so lucky as fans to have witnessed the run we got to witness.

Runs end, even if teams aren't thrust into wild conference alignment. Did people actually think we'd win 4 championships in every 15 year stretch for the rest of time?

We will probably still have great years in our future, but people need to accept the absurdity of what UConn accomplished and get ready for regression to the mean at some point.

I can live with a down year. But what it sounds like you are talking about is lowering our standards. Accepting less and saying its ok. When that happens less becomes acceptable and you perform to that. You can see at this point where that trend continues to go. For Schools that have stood the test of time and are still good programs year in and year out, their fans dont accept it. Its ok to be upset when your team doesnt meet the standard. Lets the staff and players know what we expect! Just like if you have a kid are you going to say, its cool that you didnt make the honor roll, maybe next time.. Im going to let me kid know that im not happy with it and it better improve. If you dont shoot for better there wont be a better. I remember my band instructor in high school grouching at students and kids would complain about it. He said you shouldnt worry if Im yelling at you, you should worry if Im not yelling at you. Look at Uconns football program? What is the standard? I dont want our basketball program to turn into that. The Coaches, the players everyone should be dissapointed and upset with not making the tounament. It should be unacceptable and beneath us every single year.

I know I probably sound delusional but i think fans and how they feel makes a difference even if its just in the level of pride the team has. Nobody ever became elite by accepting that you'll settle into the mean. Maybe it will end one day, but you keep the high standards until the ship sinks imo.

 

[tzznandrew]

Was Kemba a better facilitator than Boatright, or did he just have better options? Serious question. The knock on Boatright as a facilitator or "pure point guard" - whatever that means - has to consider how limited this offense was.

I mean, I guess there's a reason that our team was better with Kemba at the 2 then we were with him at the 1.

I don't think that was Kemba's great strength either. Although it's hard to tell because in the league his team is filled with guys who don't get him assists.

 

[ASweet3781]

Is there even time to have perspective in this college sports landscape?

The AAC no matter how you feel about it is set up for our football and men's basketball to be the best it possibly can in terms of wins. There are wins all over the place on both schedules playing in this league. And both teams had about as bad of a season as they possibly could. We really can't have that right now.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I agree with everything except this:

Defense.

He was a lock-down defender.

It was harder for him to do that this year and shoulder the burden of scoring. Much as Kemba was a "better" defender freshman and sophomore year, and then we put him on the opponent's weakest link his junior year to save him.

Boat didn't always have that luxury. He was the only consistent offensive threat, and he was also the best on the ball defender, so he was often guarding their best players.

I don't think he was a poor facilitator. He just needed someone else to consistently step up. Even then, though, that wasn't his particular strength.

He was probably the best combination of scoring and defense we had at the 1 though.

Good point, Boat was lock down on D.

I was caught up thinking offense only.

The job they did on Wilbiken still makes me laugh with how much they shut him down.

 

[guyergym]

I agree with the general point of your post, but you're also guilty of your own hyperbole, especially this:

When we whimpered down the stretch of the 1992-1993 season all I can remember hearing was “I guess Calhoun really didn’t have it. He did have a nice little run but it is over.”.

If that's all you heard, you were really hanging out with some dumb fans. I'd imagine there were a few yahoos calling into talk radio saying that, but any UConn fan with half a brain knew what the program was like pre-Calhoun and with Calhoun and no one thought his "nice little run" was over.

I agree with the point that fans need perspective, and I think most would have perspective and would be more accepting of this NIT season if we were in a P5 conference.

But give me a championship one year and the NIT the next year anytime over a two-year stretch with NCAA bids but no titles.

 

[tzznandrew]

Good point, Boat was lock down on D.

I was caught up thinking offense only.

The job they did on Wilbiken still makes me laugh with how much they shut him down.

By the end of the game, I felt genuinely bad for Wilbekin. Boat absolutely destroyed him, and then demoralized him.

It was like watching a puppy getting run over by an 18-wheeler...and then having the truck reverse over the poor thing again.

 

[businesslawyer]

Was Kemba a better facilitator than Boatright, or did he just have better options? Serious question. The knock on Boatright as a facilitator or "pure point guard" - whatever that means - has to consider how limited this offense was.

Yes, I think he was a much better facilitator. I don't want to spend all day on this because I don't want to be negative about Boat -- when I've been clear I think he was an outstanding basketball player -- but did you watch this weekend. How many times did Boat penetrate and kick to a wide open 3 point shooter, but the ball floated out there lazilly and the D recovered, or the pass was below the knees, and the D recovered, or moved the shooter's feet, and the D recovered? Boat did not get the ball to people in the right place in the right time like true point guards do, and like KEA, KO, Sheffer, Marcus, Shabazz and Kemba all did.

 

[Marty Jackson]

So are you saying that people don't have the right to react to what they have seen this year and to be concerned going forward? Seriously, this isn't about being "jaded and entitled". A disappointing season has just come to an end so to not expect people to vent about it is beyond silly.

I think the point is, not every hiccup is a signal to the decline of the program.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

You must have a lot of posters here on ignore.

lol

 

[Marty Jackson]

Best thing anyone can do to support the basketball programs is to support football.
Like or not, basketball can deliver 5 more NC's over the next 20 years and we'll still be in the AAC.
Get the football program to a win a few games, get a few bowl appearances, and get some national exposure.
Do that while making it necessary to expand the rent...

That's what will get uconn into a P5 conference much faster.

 

[Danzz]

I think part of the problem is the misdirected criticism of recruiting. Last year we were able to get Purvis and Hamilton and this year we signed Enoch and Adams
and we were in the mix for some top players. I'd say those were reasonably successful recruiting years. The problem was a few years ago when the best we could do was Facey and Samuel.
I don't think the OP is saying never criticize. What he is saying is that some posters are not only way over the top but are predictable and redundant as hell. Their number is growing as some good posters have had it and disappeared.

 

[mets1090]

Best thing anyone can do to support the basketball programs is to support football.
Like or not, basketball can deliver 5 more NC's over the next 20 years and we'll still be in the AAC.
Get the football program to a win a few games, get a few bowl appearances, and get some national exposure.
Do that while making it necessary to expand the rent...

That's what will get uconn into a P5 conference much faster.

To be fair, the same people that don't give a crap about the football team would probably be content in the AAC if it meant 5 titles over the next 20 years

 

[FfldCntyFan]

UConn is going to be playing mid majors and facing a $20M+ revenue gap every year, but since UNLV won a title 25 years ago and then faded into irrelevance, that's the big comforting fact?

Which brings me back to my original and only point. The root of all this unrest is because people don't know what the future holds and that's all related to the league.

If we were in the ACC or B1G, the talk would be about disappointment, and then reloading.

If we had any of a number of people who did not have some track record of beating serious odds for a sustained period of time in charge of this I would likely be leaning closer to the stance you are professing. We do however have someone who built a very long NBA career for himself that in all candor, never should have happened if you look at the skills he possessed when he finished his college career in comparison to any of the many quality prospects who couldn't last for more than a cup of coffee.

It won't be easy and because a few mid-major schools (I've mentioned them already) were able to spend a decade or so performing as well as most of the better high-majors doesn't mean that anyone can do it. We do however have a ton of advantages over those who have accomplished it however. We have a head coach who can flash a National Championship ring when he visits a recruit. At this point there will be very few (and before long there won't be any) future recruits who were alive before our first title. We have won more national titles during the lifetime of any potential recruits than any other school and we have a track record of putting people in the league, especially (recently) at the most vital position in college basketball. KO made his way into the NBA (and remained there for thirteen years) on sheer will and determination. I need someone to convince me that he no longer has that will or determination or that it isn't exactly what is needed to overcome the disadvantages that we do have.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

If we had any of a number of people who did not have some track record of beating serious odds for a sustained period of time in charge of this I would likely be leaning closer to the stance you are professing. We do however have someone who built a very long NBA career for himself that in all candor, never should have happened if you look at the skills he possessed when he finished his college career in comparison to any of the many quality prospects who couldn't last for more than a cup of coffee.

It won't be easy and because a few mid-major schools (I've mentioned them already) were able to spend a decade or so performing as well as most of the better high-majors doesn't mean that anyone can do it. We do however have a ton of advantages over those who have accomplished it however. We have a head coach who can flash a National Championship ring when he visits a recruit. At this point there will be very few (and before long there won't be any) future recruits who were alive before our first title. We have won more national titles during the lifetime of any potential recruits than any other school and we have a track record of putting people in the league, especially (recently) at the most vital position in college basketball. KO made his way into the NBA (and remained there for thirteen years) on sheer will and determination. I need someone to convince me that he no longer has that will or determination or that it isn't exactly what is needed to overcome the disadvantages that we do have.

Again, my point was from the start, that people are upset and the cause of that is the league. Not so much the season we just played.

I never said we were finished.

I never said it couldn't be done.

Nobody has those answers.

Pointing out schools that aren't in our stratosphere as examples and saying our coach beat the odds just doesn't apply if we can't compete on the floor on an even playing field. With the P5 controlling everything, that concerns me and others.

20 posts later, I hope to god I've clarified what was a simple one sentence.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Best thing anyone can do to support the basketball programs is to support football.
Like or not, basketball can deliver 5 more NC's over the next 20 years and we'll still be in the AAC.
Get the football program to a win a few games, get a few bowl appearances, and get some national exposure.
Do that while making it necessary to expand the rent...

That's what will get uconn into a P5 conference much faster.

Meh we won a NC last year in this conference. Most people on this forum (probably myself included) would gladly take 5 more NCs in the next 20 years at whatever expense to football you want. The issue is that that might not happen if the football team doesn't improve and we can't continue to fund our AD, and then basketball starts to slip. But if all things stayed equal, I'd trade P5 for a NC every 4 years for the next 2 decades.

 

[Stainmaster]

Eh we won a NC last year in this conference. Most people on this forum (probably myself included) would gladly take 5 more NCs in the next 20 years at whatever expense to football you want. The issue is that that might not happen if the football team doesn't improve and we can't continue to fund our AD, and then basketball starts to slip. But if all things stayed equal, I'd trade P5 for a NC every 4 years for the next 2 decades.

There are no more NCs without P5 once the split rears it's ugly head. Sure, we might still get to play for a "national championship", but it'd be in a church basement.

 

[Rocktheworld]

There are no more NCs without P5 once the split rears it's ugly head. Sure, we might still get to play for a "national championship", but it'd be in a church basement.

Well if there's a split and a formation of 4 superconferences, I bet UConn gets in anyway. No way we aren't a top 64 AD.

 

[traitor71]

I think the point is, not every hiccup is a signal to the decline of the program.

That's fine, and that is what should be said. Unfortunately the point is obscured when it is delivered in th

I think the point is, not every hiccup is a signal to the decline of the program.

I agree with that. I'm reacting more to the "how dare you be upset" tone of that post. To suggest that people shouldn't be concerned moving forward is just silly at best.

 

[traitor71]

What exactly did you see this year?
We did not play well enough yo get into the tournament regardless of conference..
So blaming the AAC for this year is childish. We lost 3 games at Gambel to mediocre teams. Without winning the tourney, we would have had to win , Those three plus, temple at home,( we played them when they were short handed plus Houston.
We would have been safely in. If we did that and were denied than we would have had a legitimate grip against our conference.
We lost two guys to the NBA draft two more to European leagues.
We had RB back, to play both 1 and 2 guard at the same time. He did the best he could but as other people mentioned he was not a natual PG
Would the team have been better with Kemba or SN instead .
Probably , they had that KAM swagger that said "I'm in charge out here and if you follow me we can't lose."They especially KW made everyone around him better .All three had BB IQ 's through the roof.
Do you understand how rare that gift is and how fortunate we've been.
It's not by accident that those guys all have rings.
Boat led by example ,he left is all on the floor , what more could we possibly ask.
For a kid whose only Idea of an entry pass when he got here was an Alley-Oop
To make himself into a darn good point is something he and all of us should be proud of.

I'm not sure what my quoted post has to do with yours, but here is what I saw this year. I saw a team of guys that I am not sure will really develop into anything. I'm pretty sure Hamilton will, I have no idea about Purvis and all of our front court players have me worried. This is a critical off season for these guys. Hamilton has to take the next step in his development and needs to get stronger and more assertive. Purvis simply has to become a good free throw shooter. And Brimah? There is so much work that needs to be done there. He definitely needs to get stronger and start defending more intelligently, because even limited as he is right now, we need him on the floor to win games. I could go on, Facey and Nolan have a way to go in their development and Samuel does as well.

Now all of that may happen and we may really see some sort of a team, but a lot of things have to fall into place and I just think it may take another season.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Yes, I think he was a much better facilitator. I don't want to spend all day on this because I don't want to be negative about Boat -- when I've been clear I think he was an outstanding basketball player -- but did you watch this weekend. How many times did Boat penetrate and kick to a wide open 3 point shooter, but the ball floated out there lazilly and the D recovered, or the pass was below the knees, and the D recovered, or moved the shooter's feet, and the D recovered? Boat did not get the ball to people in the right place in the right time like true point guards do, and like KEA, KO, Sheffer, Marcus, Shabazz and Kemba all did.

I guess I can't get past you describing Kemba as a "true point guard" when that continues to be the knock on him to this day. As far as your anecdotal examples from this weekend, the guy whose passes struck me as being consistently in the wrong place is Purvis, not Boatright, but that's another story. I don't see it with Boatright. I also can't get past the fact that he's trying to create points for guys who actually make you wonder whether they're shaving points.

 

[PAHusky]

I think part of the problem is the misdirected criticism of recruiting. Last year we were able to get Purvis and Hamilton and this year we signed Enoch and Adams
and we were in the mix for some top players. I'd say those were reasonably successful recruiting years. The problem was a few years ago when the best we could do was Facey and Samuel.
I don't think the OP is saying never criticize. What he is saying is that some posters are not only way over the top but are predictable and redundant as hell. Their number is growing as some good posters have had it and disappeared.

The problem with recruiting is that it's not just measured by who we bring in, but also by whether we fill holes in the team as well. My frustrations with our recruiting for next year stems from the ideas that we probably need two ball handling guards (to replace losing Boat + we needed one this year regardless) and some immediate help in the front court. We got Adams, which is huge, as he's both talented and fills a hole in the team. We had Prince Ali, which would have been perfect, but lost him. We got Enoch who, while talented, looks like he won't be able to contribute right away. We're scraping the bottom of the barrel for another guard and we're headed into next year with a front court that consists of a limited senior center, a project junior center who's very talented but one dimensional, a decent junior forward and a project sophomore forward. This is why people have problems with recruiting.

 

[tzznandrew]

I guess I can't get past you describing Kemba as a "true point guard" when that continues to be the knock on him to this day. As far as your anecdotal examples from this weekend, the guy whose passes struck me as being consistently in the wrong place is Purvis, not Boatright, but that's another story. I don't see it with Boatright. I also can't get past the fact that he's trying to create points for guys who actually make you wonder whether they're shaving points.

My sense was that Boat was often getting it to them in the right place, or near right place, and they pump faked away the open shot or lane.

I won't deny that he doesn't always put it on the money in the way that Marcus or Taliek or Shabazz did. But he does it enough that--with more confident scorers and playmakers--our offense would look a lot better than it did.

In other words, the last person I would blame here is Boat (not to put words in your mouth @businesslawyer )