I still think Temple / Memphis were awful additions

[ZooCougar]

Well, it's really what they haven't done that separates us. Temple averaged about 1 win a year in their initial run as a BE team. They played in 2 bowl games since 1980, and won 1. We have 6 8+win seasons in the past decade (our complete FBS existence). They have 3, and you have to go back a long time before those years to see anything that doesn't look inept. Even when they win games, they rarely beat .500+ teams. They have horrible home attendance. We don't need to look down on them, but there is no reason to believe that we're not a much stronger program.

They've looked tough since the Al Golden era. And in their defense, they should have played in a bowl game the year we went to the Fiesta Bowl, that had more to do with the MAC's tie ins than than Temple.

I agree completely about the attendance. Is Temple another Rutgers? Will they morph from the downtrodden cellar dweller to being a bowl team year in year out, with an enthusiastic fan base? I hope so.

But if we were looking for that then we could have added ECU immediately. Win or lose, the fans are there in their seats and they have an extensive bowl history.

 

[whaler11]

I feel like a Syracuse fan when I bash a program that beat us the last we played them.

Temple always gave us a game. We were one call away from losing two against Temple. I want to beat them thorughly before we begin bashing them.

I think considering who to add to your conference is a bit more nuanced then what happened the last time you played. They almost beat Penn State should the Big 10 put them on the short list?

Temple has gotten a chance they haven't earned with either their play pr support for their program. Hopefully they do better with it this time - but not wanting them in the Big East right now is hardly unfair.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think considering who to add to your conference is a bit more nuanced then what happened the last time you played. They almost beat Penn State should the Big 10 put them on the short list?

Temple has gotten a chance they haven't earned with either their play pr support for their program. Hopefully they do better with it this time - but not wanting them in the Big East right now is hardly unfair.

I'm with you more than I am against you on this. But I want to at least beat them again before we continue bashing their football.

They were the wrong choice IMO. They do a good job down there for what they have, but they should not be in the conference. Neither should Memphis for that matter.

I am not totally in love with ECU, but that school was a better choice than either Temple or Memphis.

 

[Adios]

No they aren't. Everyone in Memphis is a Tennessee/Ark/Ole Miss fan. Memphis fans are notorious part time fans.

The bottom line is that Memphis should not have been invited into this conference. The place is like a giant red flag.

Even if they are part time, wouldn't it be nice to have a program that plays at the BCS level in your backyard? Look at what it's done for us. Memphis drew very well in the WFL and USFL. Their WFL team tried to get a merger with the NFL. Two owners voted in favor, the rest against.

 

[ZooCougar]

Being in a BCS conf, does not make a school BCS quality. That will all be over soon anyways. Fans down there are pretty savvy, they will know the difference.

I was there in the late 90s when they had the CFL team that played in the Liberty Bowl. In my marketing class at Rhodes we did a case study on why the Memphis Pharaohs (arena team, also kaput) had such a big following and why nobody went to watch the Hounddogs play.

It's too late now, but this just goes to show what kind of damage a bad commissioner can do.

 

[huskypantz]

They've looked tough since the Al Golden era. And in their defense, they should have played in a bowl game the year we went to the Fiesta Bowl, that had more to do with the MAC's tie ins than than Temple.

I agree completely about the attendance. Is Temple another Rutgers? Will they morph from the downtrodden cellar dweller to being a bowl team year in year out, with an enthusiastic fan base? I hope so.

But if we were looking for that then we could have added ECU immediately. Win or lose, the fans are there in their seats and they have an extensive bowl history.

It's just tough for Temple to get support in Philly. If you're a college football fan living in Philly, you're most likely a PSU fan. I think they can draw some eyeballs because of the local connection, but even in a 10-2 season I don't see them drawing much north of 30k. And they're not playing a Mac schedule any more. Philly fans are fickle - if Temple goes 2-5 this season in the BE, it'll be same old Temple and they'll lose any momentum they had gained over the past 3 seasons.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

But if we were looking for that then we could have added ECU immediately. Win or lose, the fans are there in their seats and they have an extensive bowl history.

I'd go for Temple over ECU for no other reason than ECU has just about hit their ceiling. Their location is terrible, no TV market, are #4/5 at beast in their own state and are massively overshadowed in the nearest major city by three other schools. Temple, while their program and attendance aren't as good as ECU, is clearly in a better location, and don't have much fan competition outside of PSU who is in the dumpster for the next 5-10 years. Plus, Temple brings a strong and known basketball program that can flourish in the BE, where ECU brings a garbage BB program that would significantly weight down the conference.

 

[Adios]

Being in a BCS conf, does not make a school BCS quality. That will all be over soon anyways. Fans down there are pretty savvy, they will know the difference.

I was there in the late 90s when they had the CFL team that played in the Liberty Bowl. In my marketing class at Rhodes we did a case study on why the Memphis Pharaohs (arena team, also kaput) had such a big following and why nobody went to watch the Hounddogs play.

It's too late now, but this just goes to show what kind of damage a bad commissioner can do.

This situation is far more comparable to the Pharoahs than the Mad Dogs. (They were called the Mad Dogs.) Should have included the WFL and USFL in your case study.

There's people who think the Mad Dogs could have succeeded if they moved their games to Sunday.

 

[ZooCougar]

This situation is far more comparable to the Pharoahs than the Mad Dogs. (They were called the Mad Dogs.) Should have included the WFL and USFL in your case study.

There's people who think the Mad Dogs could have succeeded if they moved their games to Sunday.

You're right, I have my teams mixed up now. Memphis was trying to be an NFL expansion city and the club would have been called the hound dogs like from the Elvis songs.

The Mad Dogs literally had like a dozen people at one of their games.

 

[ZooCougar]

And yet people would have said almost the same thing about VT. There have been brief periods where they were the best team in the state. They still could be, it's not like the NC schools are world beaters.

Temple is in a big market that is drowned out by a half dozen or more substantial competing interests. They have not a snowball's chance in hell.

I'd go for Temple over ECU for no other reason than ECU has just about hit their ceiling. Their location is terrible, no TV market, are #4/5 at beast in their own state and are massively overshadowed in the nearest major city by three other schools. Temple, while their program and attendance aren't as good as ECU, is clearly in a better location, and don't have much fan competition outside of PSU who is in the dumpster for the next 5-10 years. Plus, Temple brings a strong and known basketball program that can flourish in the BE, where ECU brings a garbage BB program that would significantly weight down the conference.

 

[freescooter]

I'm with you more than I am against you on this. But I want to at least beat them again before we continue bashing their football.

They were the wrong choice IMO. They do a good job down there for what they have, but they should not be in the conference. Neither should Memphis for that matter.

I am not totally in love with ECU, but that school was a better choice than either Temple or Memphis.

Once the decision was made to have football only members, I'm inclined to agree with you that ECU was a better choice than either Temple or Memphis. Certainly Memphis. Once you made that decision, which I don't like very much, you pretty much opened the food gates as to whom you could accept.

 

[UConnDan97]

Once the decision was made to have football only members, I'm inclined to agree with you that ECU was a better choice than either Temple or Memphis. Certainly Memphis. Once you made that decision, which I don't like very much, you pretty much opened the food gates as to whom you could accept.

This is certainly a true statement, and I am also one of the people that is questioning the Memphis decision, but it has to be said that we need to see how this "large media market strategy" plays out. If these moves are the reason that people are still talking about 14 million dollars or higher for the tv contracts, then I cannot fault the Big East brass. We'll know a lot more in about 3 months.

I will say this, though; it seems pretty clear to me that the next 3 targets for the league are BYU, , and ECU, probably in that order...

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Once the decision was made to have football only members, I'm inclined to agree with you that ECU was a better choice than either Temple or Memphis. Certainly Memphis. Once you made that decision, which I don't like very much, you pretty much opened the food gates as to whom you could accept.

I hate football only members. I'm glad that we've decided it's only suitable for western teams and service academies. Even the western teams will be looking for the first train out of dodge unless they get full membership one day though.

I think schools like Memphis and Temple will flourish with full membership, especially on the court. Having a large fanbase for successful basketball programs can help translate into football fan support. That's what happened here anyway. The disparity between Temple or Memphis at full fan support accross all sports programs vs. ECU at full fan support is huge due to the difference in market size. The upside at Temple or Memphis is so much higher. There is also less college sports saturation in PA or TN than there is in NC. PA and TN have 2 BCS programs each whereas NC has 4. I'd take the bet on PA and TN's 3rd college teams over NC's 5th everytime.

 

[pj]

UVa and UNC are sleeping giants, football wise. They are in a fertile recruiting area and have ceded players to the SEC in the past, but now that all the TV money is getting waved around, schools are investing in football. Look for them to start appearing often in the top 25.

 

[rw005]

*Yawn* has East Carolina been invited?

 

[phillionaire]

UVa and UNC are sleeping giants, football wise. They are in a fertile recruiting area and have ceded players to the SEC in the past, but now that all the TV money is getting waved around, schools are investing in football. Look for them to start appearing often in the top 25.

UNC's gonna get the death penalty before they start dominating college football

 

[whaler11]

It's just tough for Temple to get support in Philly. If you're a college football fan living in Philly, you're most likely a PSU fan. I think they can draw some eyeballs because of the local connection, but even in a 10-2 season I don't see them drawing much north of 30k. And they're not playing a Mac schedule any more. Philly fans are fickle - if Temple goes 2-5 this season in the BE, it'll be same old Temple and they'll lose any momentum they had gained over the past 3 seasons.

If Temple goes 2-5 this season it would be a surprise. It would also make 2 teams look really bad.

 

[whaler11]

I hate football only members. I'm glad that we've decided it's only suitable for western teams and service academies. Even the western teams will be looking for the first train out of dodge unless they get full membership one day though.

I think schools like Memphis and Temple will flourish with full membership, especially on the court. Having a large fanbase for successful basketball programs can help translate into football fan support. That's what happened here anyway. The disparity between Temple or Memphis at full fan support accross all sports programs vs. ECU at full fan support is huge due to the difference in market size. The upside at Temple or Memphis is so much higher. There is also less college sports saturation in PA or TN than there is in NC. PA and TN have 2 BCS programs each whereas NC has 4. I'd take the bet on PA and TN's 3rd college teams over NC's 5th everytime.

You can't compare UConn with Temple and Memphis. UConn does not have to compete with Penn State, Tennessee and Mississippi.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

You can't compare UConn with Temple and Memphis. UConn does not have to compete with Penn State, Tennessee and Mississippi.

No, what we have is New England's College Team. They are the dominant sports brand in all of New England you know.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Memphis moves to 0-2 with losses to Tennessee-Martin and Arkansas State.

They're so bad we actually may throw a passing TD vs them next season.

 

[Marty Jackson]

To be fair (since my last post may have sounded overly harsh), Whaler does indeed love UConn and will make some good posts (which I "like"). But it just seems that every fourth post he puts up is one aiming at a battle with someone for no apparent purpose over some mundane statement. Once every eighth post is a battle with me!

Every fourth post he picks a battle???? I've been tabulating using the 'Argumentative Scoring Scale' (ASS for short), and he is at 1 every 2.4 posts.

Just sayin...

 

[UConnDan97]

Every fourth post he picks a battle???? I've been tabulating using the 'Argumentative Scoring Scale' (ASS for short), and he is at 1 every 2.4 posts.

Just sayin...

He's a good dude. He just gets a little "carried away" sometimes...

 

[SubbaBub]

You can't compare UConn with Temple and Memphis. UConn does not have to compete with Penn State, Tennessee and Mississippi.

I disagree. Jim Calhoun would disagree, Geno would disagree, Susan would disagree, and Lew Perkins would disagree. The entire point of upgrading the FB program was to compete with the major public institutions like the ones you mention and their conference mates, athletically, academically, in research, and in student recruitment. They are our peers. We not only compete with them but best them in many areas besides basketball. It's FB and our association with the NNNBE that dings our national reputation.

 

[whaler11]

I disagree. Jim Calhoun would disagree, Geno would disagree, Susan would disagree, and Lew Perkins would disagree. The entire point of upgrading the FB program was to compete with the major public institutions like the ones you mention and their conference mates, athletically, academically, in research, and in student recruitment. They are our peers. We not only compete with them but best them in many areas besides basketball. It's FB and our association with the NNNBE that dings our national reputation.

Compete for fans and eyeballs locally. Not in the big picture athletically.