I still think Temple / Memphis were awful additions

[ConnHuskBask]

I realize this is water under the bridge, but it still boggles my mind how Temple and Memphis were added to the conference. Is there anyone that can convince me or at least rationalize why they were added?

My take:

-Perennially among the worse teams in college football on the field - Temple has been decent lately.
-Nationally viewed as two of the worse teams in college football - more important.
-There is absolutely no way their addition to the conference will cover their tv contract payout, in turn decreasing UConn's cut from the pie.
-Once again is a hoops only generated decision, which proves the Big East still doesn't get it's all about football. (I'm in favor of the hybrid, but not catering to the hoops schools).
-Once Navy comes on board all we needed was 1 more football only school to have a conference title game.
-Creates an 18 team basketball conference, which actually dilutes the basketball tv product as it further reduces home and home games with schools like UConn, Louisville, Villanova, Georgetown, ND, etc.

I know this has been rehashed a million times, but I was just thinking about it again today and I just can't justify it at all.

 

[whaler11]

Temple filled out the 2012 schedule. Memphis shut Pitino up for a while.

Up until those moves they were doing pretty well.

 

[Rumrunner]

Heavens. I wish there existed a way for you to see how slooo...www...lll..yyy I'm typing this reply. All patronizing aside, the Big East serves two masters- one basketball, one football.

One only cares about the welfare of the other insofar as it impacts the other's welfare.

Using that principle, Boise, SMU, UCF and Houston satisfied the football masters. That kept Seton Hall's pathetic athletic department from slipping into more irrelevancy. So Seton Hall agreed.

Temple and Memphis State satisfied the basketball master. That's lex Romana for quid pro quo.

The fact that Memphis and Temple failed in the past 50 years to show a financial and institutional commitment to football is irrelevant.

It is why the Big East is destined to be less successful than the other five conferences, notwithstanding the greatest media buyers in the world assembled in one place, poised to do battle against all that is evil carrying the righteousness of Dave Gavitt's spirit like a lance upon a horse.

In the end it is the 5th team in Florida playing against the fifth team in California, or the 5th team in Texas, or a community college, or a commuter college...

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Heavens. I wish there existed a way for you to see how slooo...www...lll..yyy I'm typing this reply. All patronizing aside, the Big East serves two masters- one basketball, one football.

Right, but from a basketball perspective as I noted above, doesn't this actually detract from the basketball product in terms of matchups?

If you're Providence, wouldn't it be in your best interests to try and get one of the catholics or UConn, Cincy, Louisville in your building on more regularity than Temple/Memphis every other season?

Not sure how much incremental revenue comes from advancing a round or two in the NCAA Tournament but that is the only value I can possibly see them adding and I'm assuming that comes up way short of what they take back in the upcoming tv deal.

As for filling the 2012 schedule, wouldn't it have been easier to try and buy a last minute game from a FCS or MAC squad? I mean, it just seems pretty short sighted when we're essentially filling our schedule with a MAC team anyway. The premium we would have had to pay that late in the scheduling process I feel would have been more than made up by the money we will be forfeiting in the sharing the tv deal with them down the line.

 

[metsfan2323]

From January - March we will like the decision to add Memphis and Temple. Memphis actually has a very passionate basketball fan base, I can see them bringing a lot of people to the Big East Tournament. We don't yet know the extent of the role FedEx played in the addition of Memphis, but they definitely played a role. They have the money and the Liberty Bowl doesn't hurt either.

Remember we don't have to play last year's abysmal Memphis football team or this years Memphis team. Hopefully they will ramp up their program soon. Their football history is not as bad as their recent performance. Also with a 14 team conference we won't be playing these teams every year.

 

[Srqhusky]

Just remember where Cincinnati and Louisville were before they became bi east additions. Temple learned its lessons from their first failure. They have the coach our booster wanted. They are here to play. Last year they had penn state on the ropes. There was a time when we were temple. Memphis I don't know what to say but they are in the south and they don't give a crap about grades therefore they are probably some good coaching away from competing.

 

[HuskyFan16]

I didn't like the Temple decision, but in reality I don't think the Big East could have made WVU stay for another year without being eviscerated through expansion by the big 12.

As far as Memphis is concerned I don't get it. The bball schools already knew that they were eventually going to be outnumbered by football schools so why cost yourself money by adding an institution that adds nothing back. For the liberty bowl? For FedEx? Talk about lipstick on a pig. The worst part is they weren't going anywhere so why take them then? For even numbers is not a rational (or accurate considering Navy) explanation.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Brands, Markets, and Basketball. I don't care that UCF or San Diego St. have been marginally decent football programs in the recent past. They are not known brand names in any sport. No casual fan has ever heard of them. Memphis is a huge brand in a decent sized market as far as hoops goes. Temple is a large public school in a huge market that has been historically above average at basketball. People have heard of both of these schools. That is why they were added. It's not that complicated. Maybe 18 members does dilute the basketball league but from my point of view the basketball league is clearly stronger with them than without.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Brands, Markets, and Basketball. I don't care that UCF or San Diego St. have been marginally decent football programs in the recent past. They are not known brand names in any sport. No casual fan has ever heard of them. Memphis is a huge brand in a decent sized market as far as hoops goes. Temple is a large public school in a huge market that has been historically above average at basketball. People have heard of both of these schools. That is why they were added. It's not that complicated. Maybe 18 members does dilute the basketball league but from my point of view the basketball league is clearly stronger with them than without.

Historically above average basketball team in a big market with no regard for football...hmm...if only someone had the foresight to create a conferrence like this before I wonder how that would have turned out!

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Historically above average basketball team in a big market with no regard for football...hmm...if only someone had the foresight to create a conferrence like this before I wonder how that would have turned out!

At least Memphis and Temple are in the game and have been for quite some time. That alone makes them more valuable than the likes of Providence and DePaul. Hell, Memphis and Temple should have been added last time instead of Marquette and DePaul. I'm not going to extoll the virtues of being a basketball first conference but the BE basketball product is improved by adding these two. The Big East has to have a strong basketball product. It's the hallmark of the league. We'll just have to disagree on this. We'll know soon enough how everything is going to work out.

 

[ZooCougar]

Just remember where Cincinnati and Louisville were before they became bi east additions. Temple learned its lessons from their first failure. They have the coach our booster wanted. They are here to play. Last year they had penn state on the ropes. There was a time when we were temple. Memphis I don't know what to say but they are in the south and they don't give a crap about grades therefore they are probably some good coaching away from competing.

Cincy and Louisville were always much better schools than Memphis. Contrary to what most of us easterners think, not all of these urban schools in the middle of the country are created equal.

 

[HuskyFan16]

It depends on how you measure an improvement of the basketball conference I think. To the enjoyment of the the basketball viewer, the Memphis and Temple additions may very well help. I would say to strengthen the basketball conference these two schools should have to bring a measurable increase in TV revenue on a per team basis to the rest of the conference members. I can't see how that's possibly the case.

 

[mattp]

I know this has been rehashed a million times, but I was just thinking about it again today and I just can't justify it at all.

we needed teams. who would you have rather brought in? the only teams we didn't invite that were at all appealing IMO were ECU or Tulane. ECU is good on the field and packs their stadium, but TV viewership wise they're not helpful and they'll always be thought of as the 4th-5th best team in North Carolina, even though they're better than Duke and WF. Tulane is lousy in football and bball and won't help our perception at all. i hate to say it but i think Tmple/Memphis were the best in a set of not-so-great options

 

[noeynox]

From January - March we will like the decision to add Memphis and Temple. Memphis actually has a very passionate basketball fan base, I can see them bringing a lot of people to the Big East Tournament. We don't yet know the extent of the role FedEx played in the addition of Memphis, but they definitely played a role. They have the money and the Liberty Bowl doesn't hurt either.

Remember we don't have to play last year's abysmal Memphis football team or this years Memphis team. Hopefully they will ramp up their program soon. Their football history is not as bad as their recent performance. Also with a 14 team conference we won't be playing these teams every year.

There has been some internet chatter that FedEx may look to finance a Big East anchor bowl. If it turns out this way, then you have to give Marinatto, credit for thinking strategically. I think Temple Basketball in the Big East has the potential to be a monster, as does Memphis Basketball. Temple football, well I don't know about that one. Playing games in a 2/3 empty pro stadium looks like on TV.

To me the real question will be if we could entice BYU and Airforce and form a Big East west division. I have to think they're keeping a real close eye on the recent developments in the conference and see big potential in what is happening.

 

[ZooCougar]

ECU/Temple are mox nix on the off the field issues. But ECU is better long term as far as becoming an enduring football presence. They have a better history, they fill their stadium and they already have some cache.

Temple is lucky that they even have a stadium to play in. Philly is a pro sports town. And Temple will always be the third best program in PA.

 

[Dann]

byu//2nd cali school or a vada school. forma east west and then split the bballs from east and west into own leagues. schools like gonzaga and st marys will eat that up quick. and thats just more tv $$$. thats why i say go to 18. get bigger and more inventory. makes you safe no matter the next round of expansion and maxes out inventory over 3 time zones for the most $$ possible.

fball
east=uconn/ruty/temple/cincy/navy/usf/ucf/lville/ecu
west=memphis/smu/uh/sdsu/bsu//byu/fresno/unr
-if not ecu then add memphis east and add in unlv or tulsa or hawaii
-winner of each div plays in the ship game for bcs. game is at higher ranked teams place...

bball and other sports-have a big east and big west type alliance.
east + prov/shu/sju/nova/gtown/dep/marq. 7 + 9 is 16. theres your bball league
west+ zaga/st mary/lbst...find a few more and there u go.

 

[pj]

Temple and Memphis were simple: maximize the value of this TV deal. That means you need a conference championship game, ergo 12 teams. That means you need major media markets. Philly #4, Memphis #38.

They wanted the service academies which bring a national audience but Navy delayed and Army and Air Force are playing wait and see. BYU brings a national audience of Mormons but they also didn't commit. So, you had to jump on what was available. Every other available team comes from a smaller media market and has less potential.

 

[junglehusky]

I go back to my initial reaction, channeling Andy Kaufmann:

"MAEMPHUSS??? MAEMPHUSSS TAENUHSAEE????"

I know they've made final fours, and have a better than decent history. But how much of their recent success was skewed by having the squid who is now at UK, and can we realistically expect anything other than an occasional blip above averageness (or even mediocrity) in football? And even if we have some FedEx sponsored bowl in a rennovated stadium, will anybody give a *? They would not fit the academic profile of the OBE and at the time Marinatto took them it smacked of desperation for warm bodies. I hope they prove me wrong in the long term but it will take a big investment in football and academics for them to do that.

 

[UConnDan97]

I agreed with the Temple decision. I think it was a simple decision to make, since they are good in football, really good in basketball, in the northeast, and in a big city.

The Memphis decision made me shake my head, since they are the worst football team in 1-A, but that comes with a caveat. The caveat is this; if the strategy of leveraging big tv markets is the reason why people are still throwing out numbers of 14+ million for our schools, even after we lost 4 teams, then you have to say that the strategy seems to be sound. I have tempered my sour attitude on Memphis for that reason. Give me their tv sets and their Fed Ex partnership, and let's roll the dice...

 

[junglehusky]

Memphis is in SEC country, near Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi. Temple is in Philly, next to a ton of pro sports teams, Penn State (who admittedly will be on a downswing), and a handful of other colleges. I really hope the overall size of those markets compensates for the fact that those schools can't realistically be expected to win over a majority or even plurality of their market in terms of branding, attention, etc.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Memphis is in SEC country, near Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi. Temple is in Philly, next to a ton of pro sports teams, Penn State (who admittedly will be on a downswing), and a handful of other colleges. I really hope the overall size of those markets compensates for the fact that those schools can't realistically be expected to win over a majority or even plurality of their market in terms of branding, attention, etc.

Temple will have a harder time with this IMO. Philly is a pro-sports town. Memphis is a southern town that has embraced Memphis basketball with a passion. I think it's a draw who is more popular in their market between the Grizzlies and the Tigers. Both are intensely popular. The city of Memphis will embrace a winning Tigers football team. I don't have any doubt about that. Many people of Memphis consider those SEC teams to be rivals not rooting interests, as ridiculous as you may find that.

 

[whaler11]

Temple qualifies as good? Did not win a game in their time in the MAC against a league opponent with a winning record. That is good?

That erases 10-80 and whatever they were last go around?

 

[UConnDan97]

Temple qualifies as good? Did not win a game in their time in the MAC against a league opponent with a winning record. That is good?

That erases 10-80 and whatever they were last go around?

No, I think that the trouncing of Wyoming in a bowl game, along with the fact that they have played Penn State tight in recent years, along with the fact that they beat us and almost beat us in our own house qualifies them as being a good football team.

2009 - 9-4 (bowl loss to UCLA)
2010 - 8-4
2011 - 9-4 (bowl win over Wyoming)

I didn't say great. I didn't even say really good. I said good. Some of those MAC teams that they beat with losing records had losing records because they beat them.

 

[mattp]

everyone keeps focusing on how lousy Temple and Memphis are on the grid iron, but you need to realize that lousy teams are necessary. Florida doesn't exist if they don't have Vandy, Ole Miss and MS St to beat up on. FSU wouldn't have existed if they didn't have Duke and WF to kick around every year. the Big East hasn't had anyone that bad since we kicked out Temple and Rutgers made themselves respectable. i think our lack of awful teams has hurt us almost as much as our lack of a marquee team, and in reality our lack of truly awful programs has probably contributed to us not having a marquee team. it's hard to us to get a team ranked when everyone beats each other. when Rutgers was truly terrible and the BE had Temple, nobody questioned whether the BE was a major conference b/c conferences aren't judged on their cannon fodder, they're judged on their ranked teams

 

[whaler11]

They can't beat a good MAC team, proved they couldn't compete in the old Big East but are going to keep up this time based on beating Wyoming and not getting killed by Penn State. I'll believe it when I see it.