I like this Team

[Pudge]

The Mid-Major talk from many of you is bothersome. Did you put your Blue gear in the closet too? This is a year that we have seen a handful of times. (maybe more)

Let me remind you that we barely had the Internet & Saint Jim Calhoun had not been on the job more than a handful of years and we were often circling .500 and NIT bound. Even after National Championships in 1999 and 2004, we had ... cough cough ... less than stellar years. Last summer, when many were posting "Why aren't we in the EXALTED category with Schools X, Y or Z? ... were you aware that we often didn't reload like they did. Yet, still, we win National Championships with guards who are tenacious and kids that developed over 3-5 years. But, you are ready to call Kevin Ollie out as a "Mike Davis" clone?

Needless to point out, Larry Brown is a damn good coach. Kevin Ollie had little response. If YOU did not like the officiating in the crucial first 7 minutes, I am with you (and you can complain to Dan Leibovitz at dleibovitz@theamerican.org) But, going Small is not effective in all instances. Tulane & Tulsa had no threats; SMU had Kennedy and about 3 others.

Amida Brimah is on an incredible path upwards and WILL be here 4 years; he had too much desire not to develop more. I feel equally excited about Daniel Hamilton. Both are going to be here awhile & lead in future years (which is part of today's problem ... lack of experience and no leaders beyond Boat). Stars in UConn National Flag Blue.

I disagree with the consensus I read (and want the silent majority to speak): Kentan Facey has a good future & is developing (gosh ... look at some of the guys sitting on Izzo's or Bo Ryan's bench for models of development). Rodney is not a Ferrari; but, he isn't Rashamel Jones (as someone posted). He has ample athleticism. And he's going to get better. Omar is a plug in our offense & better than last year. Samuel actually plays great defense and has a role on offense.

Therefore ... the real question for the coming years is the Recruiting. Jalen Adams will be a stud; Enoch - I expect - will surprise. But, we need to pull a few rabbits out of a hat here in the Spring. A Giffey type or a long stretch Power Forward and a Ballhandler. Shooters all. Has the UConn MBB team had a history of this? Yes. I think we have. (Hilton Armstrong, Marcus White, Charlie Villanueva, Antonio Kellogg, Craig Austrie, Robert Garrison, Gavin Edwards, Hasheem Thabeet, Donnell Beverly, Chuck Okwandu, Scottie Haralsen, Ater Majok, Darius Smith, Jamaal Trice, Shabazz Napier, Tyler Olander, Roscoe Smith, DeAndre Daniels, Andre Drummond) These are the guys Calhoun signed after the first Wave of LOI in November. Look ... we have had mistakes & they more often came from Ballhandlers we grabbed late. I hope Ollie really grabs a good one because Adams is going to need more than Samuel helping him.

 

[zls44]

I agree with several of your points, but the rest I have a real issue with.

If YOU did not like the officiating in the crucial first 7 minutes, I am with you (and you can complain to Dan Leibovitz at dleibovitz@theamerican.org)

Great. A terrible low-major coach probably thinks these refs are good. It explains a lot, actually.

Amida Brimah is on an incredible path upwards

Based on...?

he had too much desire not to develop more.

Oh, ok, its based on BS stuff like "desire", got it. Not, you know, actual basketball ability.

Rodney is not a Ferrari; but, he isn't Rashamel Jones (as someone posted). He has ample athleticism.

Please cite examples of said athleticism in games that are not from high school three years ago. Thank you.

Has the UConn MBB team had a history of this? Yes. I think we have. (Hilton Armstrong, Marcus White, Charlie Villanueva, Antonio Kellogg, Craig Austrie, Robert Garrison, Gavin Edwards, Hasheem Thabeet, Donnell Beverly, Chuck Okwandu, Scottie Haralson, Ater Majok, Darius Smith, Jamaal Trice, Shabazz Napier, Tyler Olander, Roscoe Smith, DeAndre Daniels, Andre Drummond) These are the guys Calhoun signed after the first Wave of LOI in November

Of the 19 names you listed, 9 of them were MASSIVE disappointments/non-factors. And that's not including Tyler and Chuck just to be nice. Basically, that's a list where 5 of the 19 are impact players and the rest are average at best. That is not a batting average to be proud of, and I have very little confidence in the bench beyond KO, based on lots of examples, being able to reach that level.

There needs to be a change on the staff. My fear is that KO won't be able to make that call because of how tight he is with all of them. But the need is obvious.

 

[3rdbass]

I agree with several of your points, but the rest I have a real issue with.




Great. A terrible low-major coach probably thinks these refs are good. It explains a lot, actually.



Based on...?



Oh, ok, its based on BS stuff like "desire", got it. Not, you know, actual basketball ability.



Please cite examples of said athleticism in games that are not from high school three years ago. Thank you.



Of the 19 names you listed, 9 of them were MASSIVE disappointments/non-factors. And that's not including Tyler and Chuck just to be nice. Basically, that's a list where 5 of the 19 are impact players and the rest are average at best. That is not a batting average to be proud of, and I have very little confidence in the bench beyond KO, based on lots of examples, being able to reach that level.

There needs to be a change on the staff. My fear is that KO won't be able to make that call because of how tight he is with all of them. But the need is obvious.

How were Marcus White and Gavin Edwards big time disappointments or underachievers. Marcus White was a great player for us that year we lost to texas in the Elite 8 and Gavin Edwards became a very serviceable big after not coming in with great expectations. I might even argue against lumping DB in there too as he was so important to our 2011 team as a another ball handler but that might be pushing it. Though I agree most of the other players definitely didn't pan out.

 

[OkaForPrez]

@zls44 Amida is 3rd in the American in winshares per 40 as a Sophomore. His biggest weakness and ours as a team (possibly only to ball handling) is when he hits the bench.

Win Shares Per 40 Minutes

1. Ryan Boatright Connecticut .221
2. Yanick Moreira SMU .212
3. Amida Brimah Connecticut .204
4. Nic Moore SMU .198
5. Octavius Ellis Cincinnati .192
6. Gary Clark Cincinnati .190
7. Shaquille Harrison Tulsa .181
8. Austin Nichols Memphis .177
9. Shaq Goodwin Memphis .176
10. Trahson Burrell Memphis .175

 

[zls44]

@zls44 Amida is 3rd in the American in winshares per 40 as a Sophomore. His biggest weakness and ours as a team (possibly only to ball handling) is when he hits the bench.

Win Shares Per 40 Minutes

1. Ryan Boatright Connecticut .221
2. Yanick Moreira SMU .212
3. Amida Brimah Connecticut .204
4. Nic Moore SMU .198
5. Octavius Ellis Cincinnati .192
6. Gary Clark Cincinnati .190
7. Shaquille Harrison Tulsa .181
8. Austin Nichols Memphis .177
9. Shaq Goodwin Memphis .176
10. Trahson Burrell Memphis .175

Fair point, and I actually have been vocal about wanting him on the court more. I just disagree with this idea that he's on some Olajuwon-esque upward trajectory.

I also think those comparisons are based on some really uncomfortable ideas, but that's besides the point.

 

[zls44]

How were Marcus White and Gavin Edwards big time disappointments or underachievers. Marcus White was a great player for us that year we lost to texas in the Elite 8 and Gavin Edwards became a very serviceable big after not coming in with great expectations. I might even argue against lumping DB in there too as he was so important to our 2011 team as a another ball handler but that might be pushing it. Though I agree most of the other players definitely didn't pan out.

Yes, Marcus was outstanding for the 12 games he contributed at UConn. Before he transferred.

Gavin Edwards became the second-best player on an NIT quarterfinalist, which I believe makes my point for me.

 

[ASweet3781]

A more appropriate title to this thread based on what you wrote is, I like this team....if Ollie is able to pull some rabbits out of his hat in recruiting this spring.

That's a big IF.

 

[Pudge]

I disagree on Brimah.

I have seen far too many kids - 7footer and athletic - over watching basketball since mid UCLA Championship string come on strong as they get into their 20s. Anyone who thinks we have seen his ceiling, I'd point to quite a few examples. Hasheem is the guy that UConn fans would go-to. Not the same body type nor path. I think we still have more to come on Amida.

I AGREE ON STAFF CHANGES. Assistant coaching positions should have everything to do with Production - not that they are from the UConn family. I think we need to know that the prospecting and the harvesting and the signing of UConn future guys is on track. I think I am feeling the same as you. However, I yield to the Gurleyman: we were effected by the Sanctions. More than meets the eye.

Leibovitz will send you a great return email. However, he is forever tied to Walt Harrison at the University of Hartford - whom I regard as the Devil.

Yes. We have a full nuggets in post-November signings (since 2002). But, in general, we have brought in a lot of kids with issues. That's what the List says to me. And, far more problems at PG/Ballhandlers from the Calhoun years than Bigs in this period. Hope Ollie does better.

And Purvis? I don't think it is rust. He simply is not a high 5 Star kid; don't knock that. He has supreme strength for his Frame and can get to the hoop on a drive easier than most any kid I have seen with his frame. I think his 3 point shot is average and helpful. Defensively? He is not good; I do expect he can get better. I would judge him as Serviceable. In a 8 person lineup, he has a role. If he was whining about not being a Star, I would have a problem with him. At this point, he has not displayed that temperament; he is a Team guy.

And ... for bonus Points? I think Lubin can be a good player off the bench ... with time.

 

[3rdbass]

Yes, Marcus was outstanding for the 12 games he contributed at UConn. Before he transferred.

Gavin Edwards became the second-best player on an NIT quarterfinalist, which I believe makes my point for me.

Well I wouldn't blame GE for that NIT game. He was productive for us and definitely gave more than what was expected. I think JD and SR were the bigger culprits that year as both of them were Top 100 recruits who had awful years.

 

[Pudge]

A more appropriate title to this thread based on what you wrote is, I like this team....if Ollie is able to pull some rabbits out of his hat in recruiting this spring.

That's a big IF.

I don't agree.

I think normal UConn progress will yield decent plugs in our current line-up. I do have high hopes (I always do) for Adams & Enoch. Better than the Boatright Team? Yes.

 

[mauconnfan]

Well I wouldn't blame GE for that NIT game. He was productive for us and definitely gave more than what was expected. I think JD and SR were the bigger culprits that year as both of them were Top 100 recruits who had awful years.

I never blame an NIT loss on anyone. After the title with Cliffy and gang UConn has been "too good" to really want to be there. Hence some awful performances.

 

[zls44]

I disagree on Brimah.

I have seen far too many kids - 7footer and athletic - over watching basketball since mid UCLA Championship string come on strong as they get into their 20s. Anyone who thinks we have seen his ceiling, I'd point to quite a few examples. Hasheem is the guy that UConn fans would go-to. Not the same body type nor path. I think we still have more to come on Amida.

I AGREE ON STAFF CHANGES. Assistant coaching positions should have everything to do with Production - not that they are from the UConn family. I think we need to know that the prospecting and the harvesting and the signing of UConn future guys is on track. I think I am feeling the same as you. However, I yield to the Gurleyman: we were effected by the Sanctions. More than meets the eye.

Leibovitz will send you a great return email. However, he is forever tied to Walt Harrison at the University of Hartford - whom I regard as the Devil.

Yes. We have a full nuggets in post-November signings (since 2002). But, in general, we have brought in a lot of kids with issues. That's what the List says to me. And, far more problems at PG/Ballhandlers from the Calhoun years than Bigs in this period. Hope Ollie does better.

And Purvis? I don't think it is rust. He simply is not a high 5 Star kid; don't knock that. He has supreme strength for his Frame and can get to the hoop on a drive easier than most any kid I have seen with his frame. I think his 3 point shot is average and helpful. Defensively? He is not good; I do expect he can get better. I would judge him as Serviceable. In a 8 person lineup, he has a role. If he was whining about not being a Star, I would have a problem with him. At this point, he has not displayed that temperament; he is a Team guy.

And ... for bonus Points? I think Lubin can be a good player off the bench ... with time.

Fair...enough...I...agree...

 

[OkaForPrez]

Fair point, and I actually have been vocal about wanting him on the court more. I just disagree with this idea that he's on some Olajuwon-esque upward trajectory.

I also think those comparisons are based on some really uncomfortable ideas, but that's besides the point.

I think the exponential improvement trend comments are more about where Amida is coming from vs. where he's going. The kid is a 3 star prospect with less than 5? years of organized basketball experience who is the most important player on the floor this year after boat. That speaks to how far he's developed thus far. I believe that is what gives people confidence the sky is the limit for him, not the fact that he's from Accra.

Amida flashes a lot of things you can't teach (athleticism, instincts around the rim and touch). He's also desperately in need of the things you can (defensive positioning, footwork and smart physicality). Some of the latter is coming around faster than others. I'm disappointed in his lack of growth in avoiding the stupid foul, particularly because...

It's obvious how important it is that Amida stays on the freaking floor and out of foul trouble. We're a team built for defense first. Physical ball pressure guards funneling the defense to the rim where we can create fast break basketball with the block. The whole strategy implodes when you go from Amida to Nolan. There is no plan B, and that's why this team feels Jeckyl and Hyde. When Amida stays in the game and dominates like he did against Tulsa, folks around here are talking Selection Sunday, when he plays 15 minutes like SMU and Stanford (9!) we get our doors blown off. SMU's shot chart on Saturday was like a stack of casino chips over the rim. Someone brought up the point that even though we lost by 18, Amida's +/- was positive!!! It's not just because he's critical to our defensive strategy which in turn is essential to fast and middle break offense, but also because...

The threat of the lob at the rim in the half-court is the only thing that keeps the defense from cheating forward and clogging up the mid range attack.

We're simply not deep enough in the front court and with Diamond stoning us, I'm not sure we have an answer next year either.

 

[mauconnfan]

I don't agree.

I think normal UConn progress will yield decent plugs in our current line-up. I do have high hopes (I always do) for Adams & Enoch. Better than the Boatright Team? Yes.

Pudge I normally agree with you 90% of the time (like it matters, i'm nobody so take this with a grain of salt) and a lot of the OP is really spot on.

But I do agree mostly with what ASweet says, it's almost do or die time in a way. While I am thrilled to have Jalen and Steve coming in we need more, better athletes and smarter players to create at least depth. I can wait for the finished product, 1 or 2 more years I am not spoiled. But we can't get better players without getting back to the dance next year for sure. And as of now I am not confident our path is positive for this success to occur.

The players we have coming back are either good, decent or inexperienced (frosh/Lubin etc). There is "eventually great" in DHam and he is the closest. We have a center who you have more faith in than I. I like him and hope he gets better and better. Sorry but when you get in foul trouble in almost every game we say "We need Amida to stay out of foul trouble" and then continue it 3/4's into your sophomore year, I am concerned about his growth mentally in the game. Let's be honest, it may never be what it needs to be. By no means am I saying he's stupid he's not, great kid. But on the court he continues to prove on both ends he is well short of where we need him to be. Is it possible a full summer will help him develop, yes in his game. But not sure about the smarts. We need that next level to be 2 or 3 levels from him and Facey next year. I am less sold on Facey getting there but would be happy if he was my Gavin Edwards for his last 2 years off the bench. But he's not close yet although more athletic. Rodney's points above I totally agree with, spot on. TSam needs to be a 12-15 minute guy, as well as Omar Calhoun. We either need to get lucky via Europe or transfer/Sr. for next year in order to be a contender. We can't ask that much of Adams coming in, unfair. He will be the next great guard but he needs time despite his obvious talents. And if we strike out more in recruiting/transfers the 2016 class will be beyond HUGE. There will be "musts" which is not the situation we need it to be.

Brown/Carter and Greek kid would be a great start but there are more needs than what we will throw out there next year. Just my opinion.

 

[breezy]

Yes, Marcus was outstanding for the 12 games he contributed at UConn. Before he transferred. Gavin Edwards became the second-best player on an NIT quarterfinalist, which I believe makes my point for me.

I know nothing about GE's expectations coming in and therefore can't speak to him being a disappointment or not, but if senior or junior year Edwards was on this team we would be a lot better.

 

[ctchamps]

I can't wait for the neurons in Amida's brain to completely connect with the muscles in his hands and eyes. Mine connected early but I'm only 5'10.

I wonder when he hit his growth spurt.

 

[OkaForPrez]

@mauconnfan 5th in the country in FG%, 7th in the country in block %. Obvious he needs to do more to stay on the court but when he is, what more do you want from him?

 

[ctchamps]

@mauconnfan 5th in the country in FG%, 7th in the country in block %. Obvious he needs to do more to stay on the court but when he is, what more do you want from him?

To see this production against opponents with better bigs.

 

[OkaForPrez]

To see this production against opponents with better bigs.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/co...&hasheem-thabeet=2007-2008&p1=hasheem-thabeet

Current comparison of Amida vs. Hasheem as sophmores. Amida is winning in PP40, Offensive efficiency, block %, etc. Losing in rebounding %.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pl...&chart3=assists&chart4=rebounds_total&chart5=

Note the point production from Thabeet by game. All over the map with some really low numbers in conference play.

 

[joober jones]

Donnell Beverly is arguably the most under-appreciated guy ever to put on a UConn uniform. Simply put, without his leadership and off the court contributions, we don't get a title in 2011.

 

[mauconnfan]

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/co...&hasheem-thabeet=2007-2008&p1=hasheem-thabeet

Current comparison of Amida vs. Hasheem as sophmores. Amida is winning in PP40, Offensive efficiency, block %, etc. Losing in rebounding %.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pl...&chart3=assists&chart4=rebounds_total&chart5=

Note the point production from Thabeet by game. All over the map with some really low numbers in conference play.

He's not as good as Hasheem. Not close, sorry. Hasheem was more physical, stayed in games and was more intimidating. Note the players Hasheem played with, they could score so they did;t have to throw it into him all that much unless they needed to change the game plan. Teams actually threw the ball back out when they got rebounds during his soph and Jr years, not the same here. I like the kid but you guys are weighing too much on him being "better." And I gave him the benefit of the doubt with this shoulder issues over the summer. But this far into the season and the same ole mistakes and lackluster fouls, while not being at all competitive against any good players. Haven't even talked about rebounding, yikes!

We need to see him grow like mad over the summer, physically as well as mentally and be a more dominant player. His little spurt this year is not impressing me, but have at it.

 

[OkaForPrez]

@mauconnfan Hash was definitely more physical and could block shots standing still which helped him stay out of foul trouble as well. But Amida is decidedly more offensively polished at this stage. Hasheem started out throwing drop step hooks off the side of the backboard. I don't remember him ever having the 12-15 foot face up game that Amida has right now. Not even as a junior.

I don't think Amida will ever be in the same hemisphere as Hash at rebounding, but he can definitely be a better offensive player especially away from the rim. He makes the lob dunk look easier than it is, its a essential part of our offense because he is able to get the ball anywhere in a fairly large area and slam it down. He has an uncanny awareness of where the rim is.

He needs to play more physical and smarter within that. He needs to take less risks. But if he was playing closer to 30 min a game we would have at least 4 more wins this year.

 

[djct1999]

Donnell Beverly is arguably the most under-appreciated guy ever to put on a UConn uniform. Simply put, without his leadership and off the court contributions, we don't get a title in 2011.

and Brandon Jennings the most under appreciated guy not to put on a UConn uniform. Simply put, if he committed to UConn, we don't get a national title in 2011.

 

[OkaForPrez]

@mauconnfan homework assignment for me tonight. I'm watching 2008 games around this time of the year:

http://uconnhuskygames.com/2007-2008-mens-basketball-games-replays/

I'll report. @tcf15 , @gampelcrazies I love you guys.

 

[Danzz]

Pudge I normally agree with you 90% of the time (like it matters, i'm nobody so take this with a grain of salt) and a lot of the OP is really spot on.

But I do agree mostly with what ASweet says, it's almost do or die time in a way. While I am thrilled to have Jalen and Steve coming in we need more, better athletes and smarter players to create at least depth. I can wait for the finished product, 1 or 2 more years I am not spoiled. But we can't get better players without getting back to the dance next year for sure. And as of now I am not confident our path is positive for this success to occur.

The players we have coming back are either good, decent or inexperienced (frosh/Lubin etc). There is "eventually great" in DHam and he is the closest. We have a center who you have more faith in than I. I like him and hope he gets better and better. Sorry but when you get in foul trouble in almost every game we say "We need Amida to stay out of foul trouble" and then continue it 3/4's into your sophomore year, I am concerned about his growth mentally in the game. Let's be honest, it may never be what it needs to be. By no means am I saying he's stupid he's not, great kid. But on the court he continues to prove on both ends he is well short of where we need him to be. Is it possible a full summer will help him develop, yes in his game. But not sure about the smarts. We need that next level to be 2 or 3 levels from him and Facey next year. I am less sold on Facey getting there but would be happy if he was my Gavin Edwards for his last 2 years off the bench. But he's not close yet although more athletic. Rodney's points above I totally agree with, spot on. TSam needs to be a 12-15 minute guy, as well as Omar Calhoun. We either need to get lucky via Europe or transfer/Sr. for next year in order to be a contender. We can't ask that much of Adams coming in, unfair. He will be the next great guard but he needs time despite his obvious talents. And if we strike out more in recruiting/transfers the 2016 class will be beyond HUGE. There will be "musts" which is not the situation we need it to be.

Brown/Carter and Greek kid would be a great start but there are more needs than what we will throw out there next year. Just my opinion.

We need a real PG besides Adams so TSam has to play fewer minutes. He simply isn't a good enough PG to start on a contender. A 6'8" PF would be nice so Hamilton can go back to the 3. Maybe Enoch will be that guy. But a real live PG with a decent shot is #1. Agree on Adams, we may be asking too much of the freshman.
I still have hope Sam Jr. can learn to play decent D. He is as good a ball handler and better passer than TSam right now. This would make a huge difference.