I know the NBA makes a LOT more money. But…

[HuskyNan]

…I don’t have to like this. Who won a championship again?

 

[VaConnFan11]

It's not about the players. It's about how much money the public/fans are willing to spend on the players. When the public/fans start spending the same amount of money on the women as they do on the men, the salaries will become much more equal. Unfortunately it will probably never happen.

 

[cancontent]

While the disparity sucks, it's better than what it used to be prior to the introduction of a rookie contract scale. Had this been back in the days of those 10 year/$100M deals, yikes.....

Hopefully with how things are trending and another strong season will give the WNBPA more leverage during CBA negotiations.

 

[Galaxyshooter]

As long as women can continue growing the college game, the W will grow as well. It's not a coincidence that the W has grown more over the last 2 seasons, thanks to players like Catlin, Angel, and Paige. Now, the question is, who's the next superstar coming from college? In my opinion, there are 2 number one picks that the public is interested in, and JuJu in 2 years and Strong in 3 years, but if Azzi can have a dominant year like she did in the championship game and lead Uconn to another title the I predict she's be a number 1 pick and keep the momentum going.

 

[oldude]

On the other hand, Cooper Flagg could fade into obscurity, vis a vis other big name pros in the NBA, when it comes to advertising endorsements, while Paige will be earning 7-8 figure income from marketing herself as one of the faces of the WNBA.

Just think how pleased Nike & Gatorade must be after buying all those ad spots during the women’s tournament to run Paige Bueckers ads over and over again.

 

[Rowdy831]

CC has brought a lot of new fans to the WNBA and the Fever are filling big venues in every city. If players like Paige and Juju can bring the same excitement with them then the WNBA will have the ability to break away from the NBA and have money to invest back into the players. I know you hate some words Nan so I will say that the more the WNBA resembles the way UConn plays basketball and less like the WWE the more fans will be interested.

In my opinion this is a pivotal year for the league overall and may very well be what launches them to the next level. I hope it happens and I also hope the new CBA doesn't derail what has been gained.

 

[azfan]

It's not about the players. It's about how much money the public/fans are willing to spend on the players. When the public/fans start spending the same amount of money on the women as they do on the men, the salaries will become much more equal. Unfortunately it will probably never happen.

Absolutely.

 

[MooseJaw]

Apples to oranges. Same sport obvious reasons for disparity.
1. number of games played
2. The W does not make a profit
3. The W is subsidized by the NBA
4. the W will have a new league contract next year, things will change.
5. W In its infancy the NBA is decades old, how long has the W been a factor.
There are other factors, but I think the point has been made.

 

[azfan]

This is the entertainment industry.

As fans of the wbb segment of entertainment we of course support increasing this segment of entertainment with the accompanying positives for those entertainers.

Realistically reviewing the entertainment industry there are a number of issues that are worth considering:

1. Growth rate in the industry

2. Competing options for entertainment

3. Relative viewership in the various avenues of entertainment

4. Cost of entertainment

5. Macroeconomic challenges

On the margin I think an argument could be made that wbb has slightly increased the growth rate in the entertainment industry that is a small increase in the dollars spent on entertainment. This will have little to no effect on future growth of salaries for the entertainers in women's basketball.

Competing options in entertainment. The sports subsegment of entertainment is experiencing a proliferation of competitors when one thinks about things like pickleball, minor league professional football, women's soccer which is a major competitor in my view to eyeballs for women's basketball well the list goes on. The challenge for women's basketball is to generate growth rates above these competitors. Of course the ultimate challenge for all participants in this segment of entertainment is market saturation.

I think relative viewership of woman's basketball is the biggest uncertainty moving forward both due to the proliferation of new options for sports entertainment as well as options for other forms of entertainment. As an example I love women's basketball and in season it is my major form of entertainment. With that said however I'm a 70 year old retiree. Clearly not the target market for anyone who wants to grow an industry or a sub segment of an industry. The question becomes what are the preferences of those who are the future of entertainment in general and women's basketball in particular. Anecdotally it's my view that younger consumers of entertainment often choose soccer, volleyball, pickleball in the sports subsegment and of course in the non-sport segment they certainly love digital entertainment. Some colleges now have digital gaming teams and my grandchildren tell me that they actually watch other gamers on the internet. While I find this as baffling as some of my friends find my love of women's basketball baffling it's important to consider the impact that this will have on changing the segmentation within the entertainment industry. Digital Don sport entertainment is a major competitor in the entertainment industry to sports.

Cost of women's basketball as well as relative cost. I always chuckle when I read on the BY comparisons of income for women basketball players and the desire for increases in those salaries. Increase costs of entertainment will clearly be passed on to consumers. I fully expect that. As an example my WNBA League pass is $40. ESPN plus to watch women's basketball was $100. General admission season tickets for NAU Lumberjacks and Grand Canyon Antelopes and ASU Sun Devils are $60 each. The desired increase in compensation for entertainers in women's basketball will increase the cost to me the consumer. Basic economics predicts what will happen - I will consume less. Given this major challenge the conundrum will be how to continue to increase relative women's basketball share of entertainment in the face of increasing costs. Has cost for one basketball increases I would expect that within the entertainment industry soccer pickleball, volleyball, track and field would increase as a proportion of sports entertainment and in fact marginal women's basketball shift their dollars and attention to non-sport entertainment.

Macroeconomic impacts. Has a discretionary and often luxury good entertainment is susceptible to cyclicality and as the economy approaches another change in the business cycle we should be prepared for those impacts as spending on entertainment faults.

 

[azfan]

Apples to oranges. Same sport obvious reasons for disparity.
1. number of games played
2. The W does not make a profit
3. The W is subsidized by the NBA
4. the W will have a new league contract next year, things will change.
5. W In its infancy the NBA is decades old, how long has the W been a factor.
There are other factors, but I think the point has been made.

Yes the point has been well made.

 

[azfan]

Just think how pleased Nike & Gatorade must be after buying all those ad spots during the women’s tournament to run Paige Bueckers ads over and over again.

This is the key.

To please major funders of the entertainment industry.

This is one of the reasons why nil is so important to the future of women's basketball.

 

[SVCBeercats]

…I don’t have to like this. Who won a championship again?

Like it or not; a business cannot pay high wages, if it fails to make a profit. The WNBA has never earned a profit. I don't understand why it is still considered a business and not a hobby. The NBA is a financial behemoth. In the past 20 years alone, the average franchise value of NBA teams went from 265 million U.S. dollars to 4.42 billion U.S. dollars. Meanwhile, league-wide revenue in the NBA totaled 11.34 billion U.S. dollars in the 2023/24 season. The NBA is projected to earn $13B this season. The NBA can and should pay its players quite well since they generate the massive revenue. What has the WNBA done is the past 20 years or more? They lost millions!
The WNBA will continue to lose money because they have no clue how to take advantage of the Caitlin Clark effect. In fact, they do the opposite. They try to quash the Clark effect. Too many customers and prospects it is racism, sexism, and moronic business practices. Perhaps they have learned a lesson or two and won't try to quash the Bueckers effect.

Under the IRS' rules, a business is treated as a hobby when it meets certain criteria, primarily outlined in Internal Revenue Code Section 183. Key points include:

• The IRS considers an activity as a hobby if it is engaged in for pleasure rather than for profit.
• If a business claims a net loss for too many years, it may be classified as a hobby. (Considering the NBA's financial support perhaps charity is more appropriate.)
• When classified as a hobby, the IRS limits deductions for expenses and does not allow the deduction of any losses on the tax return.

 

[Centerstream]

I don't know if this has any bearing but playing in the summer and fall might not be a good idea, except it frees up the real basketball season for foreign leagues. Most indoor sports are played during the winter, except for the NBA and NHL which now play into the late spring.

 

[PacoSwede]

just proves we've fallen for/adopted/been bamboozled into accepting an immoral system and, amazingly, people -- necessary in make it work -- lap it up and don't even realize they are being screwed. why this is what we live with is a story that is complicated and most people won't accept. it's unfortunate. paige would see it as god's plan, grin and bear it. but it's definitely a bad deal.

 

[socalhusky]

Immoral? I just did a quick search of the top earners in the music industry. Dominated by women with Taylor Swift and Beyonce blowing everyone away. Is that immoral? Should we be complaining about how unfair it is to the men? It's an entertainment business, and, as well stated, the WNBA loses money. It the teams were making gobs of money and not sharing it with the players then that would be immoral

 

[cancontent]

Like it or not; a business cannot pay high wages, if it fails to make a profit. The WNBA has never earned a profit. I don't understand why it is still considered a business and not a hobby. The NBA is a financial behemoth. In the past 20 years alone, the average franchise value of NBA teams went from 265 million U.S. dollars to 4.42 billion U.S. dollars. Meanwhile, league-wide revenue in the NBA totaled 11.34 billion U.S. dollars in the 2023/24 season. The NBA is projected to earn $13B this season. The NBA can and should pay its players quite well since they generate the massive revenue. What has the WNBA done is the past 20 years or more? They lost millions!
The WNBA will continue to lose money because they have no clue how to take advantage of the Caitlin Clark effect. In fact, they do the opposite. They try to quash the Clark effect. Too many customers and prospects it is racism, sexism, and moronic business practices. Perhaps they have learned a lesson or two and won't try to quash the Bueckers effect.

Under the IRS' rules, a business is treated as a hobby when it meets certain criteria, primarily outlined in Internal Revenue Code Section 183. Key points include:

• The IRS considers an activity as a hobby if it is engaged in for pleasure rather than for profit.
• If a business claims a net loss for too many years, it may be classified as a hobby. (Considering the NBA's financial support perhaps charity is more appropriate.)
• When classified as a hobby, the IRS limits deductions for expenses and does not allow the deduction of any losses on the tax return.

Yes, the NBA is a financial behemoth but how long did it take for the league to get to that point? It could have been seen as a hobby up until the early 80s, which feels wrong to type considering the legends who were playing then.

Until Bird, Johnson games weren't being broadcast on live television. Then with Jordan things exploded. The league had been in existence much longer than the WNBA at that point.

 

[Dugway]

The title to this thread is: I know the NBA makes a LOT more money. But…

I love Paige and most all of the other women players in the league. But the simple fact of the matter is that the WNBA makes NO MONEY. In 2024, the league's best year ever, the WNBA still lost $40 million for the season. This was the 26th-straight year where it failed to turn a profit. Even with the low salaries that it pays the players, never in history has the professional women’s basketball league made a single dollar; not since it first came to exist in the spring of 1996.

​

 

[azfan]

The title to this thread is: I know the NBA makes a LOT more money. But…

I love Paige and most all of the other women players in the league. But the simple fact of the matter is that the WNBA makes NO MONEY. In 2024, the league's best year ever, the WNBA still lost $40 million for the season. This was the 26th-straight year where it failed to turn a profit. Even with the low salaries that it pays the players, never in history has the professional women’s basketball league made a single dollar; not since it first came to exist in the spring of 1996.

​

Key point. WBB (professional) is niche entertainment and "investment" in this element of entertainment is for non pecuniary returns - psychic returns. It is internally rewarding and some are willing to subsidize their "investment" in the sport. I also see a bit of signaling behavior in the "investment"

That said as a fan, a consumer of WBB, I am very grateful for those who subsidize this entertainment.

 

[Kat]

In the 2024-25 NBA season, an estimated 22 million fans attended regular season games, averaging 18,147 per game.

The average viewership for regular season NBA games across ABC, ESPN, and TNT was 1.53 million, per game, in the 2024-25 season.

That’s not including the playoff numbers. The WNBA is what, 27 or so years old? The NBA wasn’t doing so great at their 25-year point, either.

The viewership and attendance are just beginning to get going. Until they match what the NBA is doing, the pay is going to be less. Of course that does not keep certain WNBA stars from doing commercials and taking in the influencer bucks. Paige made almost a million dollars in a year when she did not play a minute of basketball. She’ll be okay.

 

[Dugway]

Season Tickets - Connecticut Sun

 

[MooseJaw]

In the 2024-25 NBA season, an estimated 22 million fans attended regular season games, averaging 18,147 per game.

The average viewership for regular season NBA games across ABC, ESPN, and TNT was 1.53 million, per game, in the 2024-25 season.

That’s not including the playoff numbers. The WNBA is what, 27 or so years old? The NBA wasn’t doing so great at their 25-year point, either.

The viewership and attendance are just beginning to get going. Until they match what the NBA is doing, the pay is going to be less. Of course that does not keep certain WNBA stars from doing commercials and taking in the influencer bucks. Paige made almost a million dollars in a year when she did not play a minute of basketball. She’ll be okay.

Yes, and when do we mention that in the NBA the number of games per season is more than double the number of games in the W.