I am starting to think that the UConn Athletic Department is just cursed | The Boneyard

I am starting to think that the UConn Athletic Department is just cursed

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UConnSportsGuy

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In the past 2 years, we have won a National Championship in Men's Basketball and Women's Basketball, and have been to a BCS Bowl Game with our football team. Normally, it would be the height of success for any athletic department and the sky would be the limit going forward.

But here at UConn, we have since fired our Athletic Director, have the potential to be suspended from postseason action for our MBB team due to APR, and have our conference crumbling around us with our future athletic success potentially killed by our conference affiliations (or lack there of).

How does that happen? How do we find a way to screw up what is a historic level of success with this pie that we are currently eating?! It is incredible to think about. Maybe we are just cursed and we are stuck living this bi-polar life as UConn fans for enternity!? But it is madening to no end!
 

tykurez

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Take a deep breath. Last year at this time the climate was much worse (women's team an exception) and I'd say we faired pretty well. A lot of people see the hiring of a new President and firing of the AD as a step in the right direction. Everyone knows the APR is flawed, but UConn is righting the ship in that department (and doing it honestly). The conference thing is still a big question mark, but at the very least UConn has shown its loyalty. We're up in the karma department ...
 

fleudslipcon

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The AD dismissal was the only action that has occurred. The other two situations are TBD.

Personally I'm happy JH was encouraged to leave. He is part of the APR problem imo. There are other causes to be sure regarding this matter, but I've stated them ad nauseam in other threads.

I don't think UConn will have to worry about any post season bans regarding the APR. I wish I could reassure you that any NCAA ruling will not impact UConn negatively because the ruling most likely will be going forth and not retroactive. And I believe that Herbst removed JH to ensure compliance and students in good standing.

The conference realignment is still very fluid. In the end I believe UConn and its athletic program will survive the shuffling. The sky fell in in 2003 for many of us. That turned into fruitless worry. Just wait until all the events play out.
 
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It was a ship without a rudder. We will get back on track with Herbst in place. Hopefully, Pendergrast is a smooth operator as well. I understand where you are coming from, but at least we have been winning. Rutgers is in the same position we are but they suck at everything.
 
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If "what ifs" ruled the world, I'd be getting head right now. Step away from the computer, breathe, and let's see how this all plays out.
 

fleudslipcon

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Take a deep breath. Last year at this time the climate was much worse (women's team an exception) and I'd say we faired pretty well. A lot of people see the hiring of a new President and firing of the AD as a step in the right direction. Everyone knows the APR is flawed, but UConn is righting the ship in that department (and doing it honestly). The conference thing is still a big question mark, but at the very least UConn has shown its loyalty. We're up in the karma department ...
I'm having trouble posting in another thread because aceboon has that sig. So I'm letting you know here, I was going to post the same thing to his post about people picking on Doug Wiggens. I was going to say they are picking on Doug because they can't pick on Jerome. I'm glad you were able to post it. I would have given you a Like for the post.
 

fleudslipcon

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If "what ifs" ruled the world, I'd be getting head right now. Step away from the computer, breathe, and let's see how this all plays out.

Are you implying the fate of UConn is in the hands of coin toss?:cool:
 
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In the past 2 years, we have won a National Championship in Men's Basketball and Women's Basketball, and have been to a BCS Bowl Game with our football team. Normally, it would be the height of success for any athletic department and the sky would be the limit going forward.

But here at UConn, we have since fired our Athletic Director, have the potential to be suspended from postseason action for our MBB team due to APR, and have our conference crumbling around us with our future athletic success potentially killed by our conference affiliations (or lack there of).

How does that happen? How do we find a way to screw up what is a historic level of success with this pie that we are currently eating?! It is incredible to think about. Maybe we are just cursed and we are stuck living this bi-polar life as UConn fans for enternity!? But it is madening to no end!

Now then, tell me. What did Migs say to you?

He hissed at you. What did he say?
 
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The AD dismissal was the only action that has occurred. The other two situations are TBD.

Personally I'm happy JH was encouraged to leave. He is part of the APR problem imo. There are other causes to be sure regarding this matter, but I've stated them ad nauseam in other threads.

I don't think UConn will have to worry about any post season bans regarding the APR. I wish I could reassure you that any NCAA ruling will not impact UConn negatively because the ruling most likely will be going forth and not retroactive. And I believe that Herbst removed JH to ensure compliance and students in good standing.

The conference realignment is still very fluid. In the end I believe UConn and its athletic program will survive the shuffling. The sky fell in in 2003 for many of us. That turned into fruitless worry. Just wait until all the events play out.
I agree. The NCAA would not want to take their perfect sports/advertising bonanza and turn it controversial in March. A top 5 team banned from the tourney? No way, because any winner is tainted forever. Any ban has to be forward and not back which still presents problems but we have to get real here.
 
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I can't help but think a lot of this stuff is interconnected. Would we be leaving for the ACC right now without a flagging APR and without the Miles scenario? Maybe. If the reports are true that we were the top choice over Pitt, it would've been a lot harder to deny us without these convenient excuses. I also can't help but notice that the year that really kicks our APR in the balls, also happened to occur during a year in which the athletic department was busy dealing with the Miles scandal. I'm not saying one thing caused the other, but I'm sure it contributed.
 
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There really has been a lot of off the court drama with Uconn over the last few years. It seems like there is always something, but the last 3-4 years has had its share of B.S
 

zls44

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Just curious, at ANY point, does anyone even HINT that MAYBE the coaching staff shares a LITTLE responsibility for the APR mess? Ever? Or are we just going to pretend it was completely out of their hands because of the "IN JC WE TRUST!!!!1111one" bullcrap.
 
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Tell me how Hathaway was part of the APR problem.
Were not the compliance posts left vacant during the JH tenure??? My understanding is that there was no one on guard for NCAA compliance.
 
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Not cursed, under staffed and did not do their job... that is why we fired the AD when they should be naming building after him in storrs campus
 

MTHusky

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that is why we fired the AD when they should be naming building after him in storrs campus

Huh???
 
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Whose responsibility is it? Pretty much everyone involved. Can the coaching staff do more to target those who would perform better academically at the expense of basketball talent? (Do we even want that?) Can the staff somehow encourage the students to go to classes, pay attention, study? To some extent, but are they going to be calling them every day, banging down their dorm doors? Sitting them for a game or two if they flunk a quiz?

Do we want the coaching staff saying, this stud player is pretty good but kinda stupid, let's spend a schollie on this brainiac who would be better suited at the D2 level to compensate?

Any student, not just athletes, have access to facilities and extra academic help. The responsibility is mostly on the student to first of all, want to succeed academically, and secondly to seek out help if needed. For some guys (Andre Drummond) chances are he doesn't need to go to class. I think everyone understands this with guys who are looking at the NBA. Anyone and everyone can be encouraging and pushing student athletes to study and do well, but if they decide not to, no one can stop them.

Having standards like 2.6 GPA do no good when you have such a range of schools. Is a 2.5 GPA at a top college really worthy of being penalized as much as a 1.2 at the lousiest academic school?
 
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Tell me how Hathaway was part of the APR problem.

No problem.

The head coach/staff are the front line for compliance.

If they fall asleep at the wheel, then the AD/staff are next up on the line for compliance.

If the AD/staff fall asleep at the wheel, then the President is next up on the line for compliance.

IMO, it appears that either the compliance officer was imcompetent or he/she fell asleep and failed to give due diligence to the APR of the men's basketball program.

These are, of course, just my opinions.

Peace,

John Fryer
 

fleudslipcon

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Whose responsibility is it? Pretty much everyone involved. Can the coaching staff do more to target those who would perform better academically at the expense of basketball talent? (Do we even want that?) Can the staff somehow encourage the students to go to classes, pay attention, study? To some extent, but are they going to be calling them every day, banging down their dorm doors? Sitting them for a game or two if they flunk a quiz?

Do we want the coaching staff saying, this stud player is pretty good but kinda stupid, let's spend a schollie on this brainiac who would be better suited at the D2 level to compensate?

Any student, not just athletes, have access to facilities and extra academic help. The responsibility is mostly on the student to first of all, want to succeed academically, and secondly to seek out help if needed. For some guys (Andre Drummond) chances are he doesn't need to go to class. I think everyone understands this with guys who are looking at the NBA. Anyone and everyone can be encouraging and pushing student athletes to study and do well, but if they decide not to, no one can stop them.

Having standards like 2.6 GPA do no good when you have such a range of schools. Is a 2.5 GPA at a top college really worthy of being penalized as much as a 1.2 at the lousiest academic school?
A lot of good points. An additional point. Should an institution be punished if a student athlete transfers after earning a 2.5 when that institution has more stringent standards in it's course requirements compared to an institution in which the course load is no where near as difficult and the student earns a 2.75 before transferring.

Unless the NCAA sets standards for course requirements and unless the NCAA audits universities to ensure what is reported is accurate, the APR is a farce.

I'll state it again. The men's bb program may indeed have a poorer APR than many sports programs. Or the men's program may have faced the perfect storm - an athletic director whose animosity towards the coach, made sure the numbers were accurately reported for the men's team even as most schools fudged their numbers in reporting the APR. And this could include JH fudging numbers for other UConn sports teams to make JC look bad. Without an oversight by the NCAA to investigate the accuracy of reporting no one can be certain which of these two possibilities is accurate.
 

tykurez

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I'll state it again. The men's bb program may indeed have a poorer APR than many sports programs. Or the men's program may have faced the perfect storm - an athletic director whose animosity towards the coach, made sure the numbers were accurately reported for the men's team even as most schools fudged their numbers in reporting the APR. And this could include JH fudging numbers for other UConn sports teams to make JC look bad. Without an oversight by the NCAA to investigate the accuracy of reporting no one can be certain which of these two possibilities is accurate.

I would love to believe this ... but that's total conjecture.

However, there seems to be ample evidence (as you and another poster were talking about in a different thread) that other programs are offering up bogus classes to their "student" athletes. If the NCAA wants the APR to be effective, they should look at auditing it as opposed to increasing the requirements.
 

fleudslipcon

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I would love to believe this ... but that's total conjecture.

However, there seems to be ample evidence (as you and another poster were talking about in a different thread) that other programs are offering up bogus classes to their "student" athletes. If the NCAA wants the APR to be effective, they should look at auditing it as opposed to increasing the requirements.
It would only be conjecture if I concluded JH took those steps. I'm not making a conclusion. I proposed two possibilities surrounding the men's program. The first is that the men's bb program has problems and those problems are not pervasive in many other athletic programs.

The second proposal is the APR problem is pervasive and that there has been rampant cheating in the reporting of numbers. I propose a sub possibility, but did not conclude, that JH could have manipulated numbers in other athletic programs but not JC's program.

People have to decide if any of these suggestions are plausible. And then test them.

Just some added thoughts why I made the suggestion regarding JH and why I haven't ruled him out as a problem is this matter. JH made statements to the NCAA regarding the Nate Miles issue, which, for anyone bothering to analyze the way sentences are constructed to create impact, were phrased in a manner that would be condemning to JC. He was very deliberate in his phraseology. In and of itself it is not conclusive, but it is a red flag that increases my interest in seeing other things he has said about JC.

The second thing is he ran the Athletic Department with minimal staff, which meant he had control over all the activity within the department. Most of us presume the dismissal of the various positions such as academic supervisor and fund raiser in the department was a problem in that Jeff couldn't handle all the responsibilities adequately. And that this decision by JH exhibited poor judgement. That certainly is one possibility. But what if the choice was conscious and not poor judgement. What if the intent was to eliminate any internal oversight allowing JH to run things improperly, which may or may not have involved JC. This could have been the case especially considering there was no oversight by the university regarding his department.

If an impartial oversight review was performed then we could get verification of which of these suggestions are indeed correct. But we don't know if it had been done. We know a review of the AD had been taken, but it was sealed. So there is no way of knowing if any of my ideas are ridiculous or plausible or even have been investigated.
I'm taking to task people who have automatically presumed the men's program is an isolated event and have condemned JC. It may be an isolated event in which case JC has to share responsibility, or it may be the norm for major athletics. If it is the norm we have to decide if it is acceptable. And if it isn't acceptable we may have to decide to accept a weaker athletic product.
 

intlzncster

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Something also rarely talked about, but has always been puzzling to me: what if a kid can't handle the academics at a particular school (given the time required to play basketball)? For some kids, it is simply too much. You try to identify who will make it and who won't before hand, but it's ultimately a guessing game.

So if a kid can't keep up, his grades suffer. He would be best served by transferring to another school that is less stringent academically and perhaps less time intensive basketball wise. Perhaps he needs to go to a Juco to get his grades/credits up. A school then is penalized by doing what's best for the kid (moving him to a place where he might be able to succeed).

That is likely to be the case for a few of UConn's players. I'll refrain from conjecturing who.
 
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This definitely applies. I know some of the UConn professors and they've all spoken very highly of student athletes (not just basketball) as far as work ethic and attendance goes. According to them, they're some of the hardest working students they have, probably in part due to the coaching oversight. On the other hand, many can struggle due to the time pressure that practice and away games puts on them. Throw in pressure to party, first year without parental supervision, maybe first year of having to manage one's own time properly, and it's a wonder many of them can succeed at all.
 

tykurez

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It would only be conjecture if I concluded JH took those steps. I'm not making a conclusion. I proposed two possibilities surrounding the men's program. The first is that the men's bb program has problems and those problems are not pervasive in many other athletic programs.

The second proposal is the APR problem is pervasive and that there has been rampant cheating in the reporting of numbers. I propose a sub possibility, but did not conclude, that JH could have manipulated numbers in other athletic programs but not JC's program.

People have to decide if any of these suggestions are plausible. And then test them.

Just some added thoughts why I made the suggestion regarding JH and why I haven't ruled him out as a problem is this matter. JH made statements to the NCAA regarding the Nate Miles issue, which, for anyone bothering to analyze the way sentences are constructed to create impact, were phrased in a manner that would be condemning to JC. He was very deliberate in his phraseology. In and of itself it is not conclusive, but it is a red flag that increases my interest in seeing other things he has said about JC.

The second thing is he ran the Athletic Department with minimal staff, which meant he had control over all the activity within the department. Most of us presume the dismissal of the various positions such as academic supervisor and fund raiser in the department was a problem in that Jeff couldn't handle all the responsibilities adequately. And that this decision by JH exhibited poor judgement. That certainly is one possibility. But what if the choice was conscious and not poor judgement. What if the intent was to eliminate any internal oversight allowing JH to run things improperly, which may or may not have involved JC. This could have been the case especially considering there was no oversight by the university regarding his department.

If an impartial oversight review was performed then we could get verification of which of these suggestions are indeed correct. But we don't know if it had been done. We know a review of the AD had been taken, but it was sealed. So there is no way of knowing if any of my ideas are ridiculous or plausible or even have been investigated.
I'm taking to task people who have automatically presumed the men's program is an isolated event and have condemned JC. It may be an isolated event in which case JC has to share responsibility, or it may be the norm for major athletics. If it is the norm we have to decide if it is acceptable. And if it isn't acceptable we may have to decide to accept a weaker athletic product.

There's no doubt JH bears some responsibility, and I agree with you and your "taking to task" the people who have solely condemned JC. Leaving those two positions open for an extended period of time is and was inexcusable and certainly plays a part in the myriad of problems currently surrounding the program. And I also agree that it's clear there was animosity between Hathaway and Calhoun and JH's handling of the Nate Miles situation was, at best, in poor taste.

But ultimately, no one will ever know if Hathaway was intentionally reporting the correct men's ball APR numbers to the NCAA in an effort to slight Calhoun and the program as you suggested as a possibility. Even given the evidence, I don't think there's enough to make that implication. I just fail to see how, as the AD, it would benefit him to create a stranglehold on the program and limit it's chances for success. Now, if he was "fudging" the numbers for the other programs then it's another story, but again ... something we probably won't ever know. Additionally, I think you and I would both agree that being honest about what is reported to the NCAA in terms of APR as well as limiting the "Football 101" courses they provide for players is ultimately the better, albeit more difficult, route to take in this whole mess.
 

intlzncster

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But ultimately, no one will ever know if Hathaway was intentionally reporting the correct men's ball APR numbers to the NCAA in an effort to slight Calhoun and the program as you suggested as a possibility. Even given the evidence, I don't think there's enough to make that implication. I just fail to see how, as the AD, it would benefit him to create a stranglehold on the program and limit it's chances for success. Now, if he was "fudging" the numbers for the other programs then it's another story, but again ... something we probably won't ever know. Additionally, I think you and I would both agree that being honest about what is reported to the NCAA in terms of APR as well as limiting the "Football 101" courses they provide for players is ultimately the better, albeit more difficult, route to take in this whole mess.

Yeah, I'd stop short of this as well. Would JH really want to create an issue with UConn nationally? His AD is under the gun/microscope here too. I highly doubt he'd want to give himself innumerable headaches simply to spite Jim Calhoun.

Although, there is now retroactive precedent with Deflipper at BC, so....

kidding.
 
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