Huskies Reorg and Next Year

[ctchamps]

@businesslawyer this entire post started under the premise of hoping these changes are positive and the program returns back to the top where we belong.

my point was that if they think this is going to buy them time, with an impatient and frustrated fan base, they're mistaken. we're already suffering from an apathetic periphery. If it takes 2-3 years to rebuild from here, we're in trouble

@huskyinfl no one has ever questioned KOs character, drive, and passion. His love for this state and program is also the stuff of legend. his integrity and dedication to his kids is clear. but sometimes those qualities are not enough. the jury is still out, and I really really really want him to turn the ship and stay with the program for the next 30yrs. But he has some work to do to win back the support he had just 3 years ago

It comes down to what are reasonable expectations. And that's subjective. I'm just curious. What's your thoughts on the APR sanctions?

 

[Huskybass]

It comes down to what are reasonable expectations. And that's subjective. I'm just curious. What's your thoughts on the APR sanctions?

You have to get over the APR sanctions. That ship sailed years ago. How about the fact that KO willingly only used 11 of 13 scholarships this year, which made the injuries that occurred more drastic in their impact? That is the equivalent of self imposed recruiting limitations, and frankly a really unintelligent move. Are you ever going to get the fact that the guy is in over his head? We literally have 2 completely healthy players returning next season. I am prepared for another ugly year, which unfortunately has become the new normal under KO.

 

[Stainmaster]

You have to get over the APR sanctions. That ship sailed years ago. How about the fact that KO willingly only used 11 of 13 scholarships this year, which made the injuries that occurred more drastic in their impact? That is the equivalent of self imposed recruiting limitations, and frankly a really unintelligent move. Are you ever going to get the fact that the guy is in over his head? We literally have 2 completely healthy players returning next season. I am prepared for another ugly year, which unfortunately has become the new normal under KO.

Yeah, I remember the time he sat on his behind all of last year (especially last spring) and didn't try to bring in any more players. Staying at 11 guys was totally a conscious choice he made. Sounds like you're the one who's in over your head.

 

[Huskybass]

Yeah, I remember the time he sat on his behind all of last year (especially last spring) and didn't try to bring in any more players. Staying at 11 guys was totally a conscious choice he made. Sounds like you're the one who's in over your head.

What a ridiculous response. Any 2 D1 caliber players would have been better than having no bench at all once the injuries hit. Wake up.

 

[Stainmaster]

What a ridiculous response. Any 2 D1 caliber players would have been better than having no bench at all once the injuries hit. Wake up.

And you would've been one of the guys cursing Ollie out for recruiting such inferior players every time they saw the court. Nice try.

 

[Huskybass]

No, I simply believe that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not filling out the roster like virtually every other program did. As it stands now, we return 2 fully healthy players for next season.

 

[ctchamps]

You have to get over the APR sanctions. That ship sailed years ago. How about the fact that KO willingly only used 11 of 13 scholarships this year, which made the injuries that occurred more drastic in their impact? That is the equivalent of self imposed recruiting limitations, and frankly a really unintelligent move. Are you ever going to get the fact that the guy is in over his head? We literally have 2 completely healthy players returning next season. I am prepared for another ugly year, which unfortunately has become the new normal under KO.

That's something I'm not willing to do since some things have impacts for some time past the point of removal and I believe those impacts ended only this year. The injuries took over where the apr ended.

As to the choice of taking only 11 players, it ended up to be a mistake but I didn't see you calling it a problem preseason. Show me all the posters that thought so. Most people thought it was a good idea to keep those scholarships available.

Of course hindsight is always brilliant.

Anyways, you and I have one thing in common. We love this program and want to see it succeed. You believe we should part ways with KO because he's in over his head. I haven't come to that conclusion yet because of the circumstances. You and I will never convince the other which universe is correct. I just know that if you're right I waited too long and if I'm right we could be pushing out a coach that under better circumstances could be brilliant.

 

[nyhuskies13]

It comes down to what are reasonable expectations. And that's subjective. I'm just curious. What's your thoughts on the APR sanctions?

With the APR sanctions, like most people here, I think we were fkd. I saw this article recently on Hawaii and it's just a reminder of how ridiculous we were treated. Hawaii earned an appeal based on a change in rules. We were given no such opportunity. Hawaii wins appeal, can play in postseason

In general, fans have issues with "non-profit" organizations who rule with an iron fist - especially when participants who drive revenue do not receive compensation. The APR sanctions served as just one example with the NCAA. Another occurred this week with FIFA. They suspended Messi 4 games for arguing a call with a ref. This is the same organization that took millions worth of bribes, used glorified slave labor to build stadiums, and profits off of impoverished countries who overbuild infrastructure for a month-long event.

In terms of impact on the program, I don't think it was that negative and relatively contained on paper. Michael Bradley transferred - who cares. Alex Oriakhi left for what would have been his senior year - who cares. Drummond and Lamb left to become lottery picks - would have happened anyway. The biggest long-term impact was Roscoe who became a beast rebounder and still had eligibility.

The scholarship reduction means you don't have an 12th/13th guy at the end of your bench - not a huge deal. And the cut back on communication with recruits might have had the biggest impact since the Facey, Brimah, Samuel class was a bit of a bust.

I do think it had a positive impact on that team. They played with a massive chip on their shoulder that led to the '14 title. Overall, that was 5 years. I have a hard time connecting today's problems to sanctions handed out in 2012.

If you want to argue that the sanctions became a major reason we were left out of the ACC, that's a separate argument and worth a thread on its own.

 

[BlueDogs]

The point is we keep giving this team a pass for their short-comings. Its getting old...

14/15: No tournament because national title hang over
15/16: 70 foot shot gets us in, out in the 2nd round
16/17: No tournament because of injuries
17/18: No tournament because its a transition year?????

The point is accountability. Not allowing KO, the media, the administration, the players, or anyone to use excuses and keep kicking the can down the road.

We're at a precarious time for this program. But I guess you can feel free to be content with next year's effort if we improved by a few wins because of all the changes this offseason. I know, I know... we'll be awesome in 18/19

The excuse is already built-in...don't kid yourself. KO will milk the favorite son thing until enough people wake up and realize there is a full fledged raging inferno, and then it will be a 3-4 years rebuild. He's got this thing eph-up beyond all recognition. I hope Benedict is out there looking. I really do. UConn basketball has to be more important than KO, and if next season flops the cord needs to be cut.

 

[Stainmaster]

there is a full fledged raging inferno, and then it will be a 3-4 years rebuild. He's got this thing eph-up beyond all recognition.

You want a full-fledged raging inferno and things to be ephed-up beyond all recognition? Get rid of Ollie and observe what unfolds.

 

[Huskybass]

That's something I'm not willing to do since some things have impacts for some time past the point of removal and I believe those impacts ended only this year. The injuries took over where the apr ended.

As to the choice of taking only 11 players, it ended up to be a mistake but I didn't see you calling it a problem preseason. Show me all the posters that thought so. Most people thought it was a good idea to keep those scholarships available.

Of course hindsight is always brilliant.

Anyways, you and I have one thing in common. We love this program and want to see it succeed. You believe we should part ways with KO because he's in over his head. I haven't come to that conclusion yet because of the circumstances. You and I will never convince the other which universe is correct. I just know that if you're right I waited too long and if I'm right we could be pushing out a coach that under better circumstances could be brilliant.

To some degree I want to understand where you are coming from, but honestly, after 3 disappointing seasons in a row I find it hard to feel any genuine optimism, especially with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

I have had season tickets for most seasons since I was a student in the 80's. KO had confidence and swagger his first 2 seasons. He, along with Bazz willed that team to a title in 2014. Since that season, its like someone knocked the wind out of him and he never recovered.

I would love to be wrong about all this and see the program return to being a relevant one on the national landscape. Unfortunately, next year is probably going to be another rough one,and 4 lackluster seasons in a row just doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

[tzznandrew]

15/16: 70 foot shot gets us in, out in the 2nd round

They were in regardless. Tulsa freaking got in. But it fits your narrative to pretend not. Oh well.

 

[ctchamps]

With the APR sanctions, like most people here, I think we were fkd. I saw this article recently on Hawaii and it's just a reminder of how ridiculous we were treated. Hawaii earned an appeal based on a change in rules. We were given no such opportunity. Hawaii wins appeal, can play in postseason

In general, fans have issues with "non-profit" organizations who rule with an iron fist - especially when participants who drive revenue do not receive compensation. The APR sanctions served as just one example with the NCAA. Another occurred this week with FIFA. They suspended Messi 4 games for arguing a call with a ref. This is the same organization that took millions worth of bribes, used glorified slave labor to build stadiums, and profits off of impoverished countries who overbuild infrastructure for a month-long event.

In terms of impact on the program, I don't think it was that negative and relatively contained on paper. Michael Bradley transferred - who cares. Alex Oriakhi left for what would have been his senior year - who cares. Drummond and Lamb left to become lottery picks - would have happened anyway. The biggest long-term impact was Roscoe who became a beast rebounder and still had eligibility.

The scholarship reduction means you don't have an 12th/13th guy at the end of your bench - not a huge deal. And the cut back on communication with recruits might have had the biggest impact since the Facey, Brimah, Samuel class was a bit of a bust.

I do think it had a positive impact on that team. They played with a massive chip on their shoulder that led to the '14 title. Overall, that was 5 years. I have a hard time connecting today's problems to sanctions handed out in 2012.

If you want to argue that the sanctions became a major reason we were left out of the ACC, that's a separate argument and worth a thread on its own.

Nice summary. I differ on the conclusion only because once the sanctions were lifted UConn managed to recruit this class which was a top ten class. Now the class didn't pan out because you still were missing a decent five to fix the problem Steve and Amida presented (one that was fixed with Brown in the next class and than unfixed) and it did not take into consideration Durham would suffer a second ACL which in effect eliminated a backup to Terry (but gave us Vance) nor did it consider the injury to Alterique.

People point out how Christian and Vance improved over the season. I would have loved to have watched a healthy Terry, Alterique, Mamadou and Juwan develop over the season to determine if the APR sanctions were the culprit. But that didn't happen. So I have to disagree with you on that point. Had those players stayed healthy all season ( and Juwan not suffered the second ACL after committing) and this season ended the same way, I'd be on the bandwagon questioning KO.

 

[ctchamps]

To some degree I want to understand where you are coming from, but honestly, after 3 disappointing seasons in a row I find it hard to feel any genuine optimism, especially with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

I have had season tickets for most seasons since I was a student in the 80's. KO had confidence and swagger his first 2 seasons. He, along with Bazz willed that team to a title in 2014. Since that season, its like someone knocked the wind out of him and he never recovered.

I would love to be wrong about all this and see the program return to being a relevant one on the national landscape. Unfortunately, next year is probably going to be another rough one,and 4 lackluster seasons in a row just doesn't inspire much confidence.

See my post prior to this.

 

[gtcam]

A coach has to be able to relate to and communicate with players and do it in such a way that they don't get angry and po'ed all the time. Some people have the personality to be able to do this and be liked and respected while others will be hated. Don't know which category KO falls in to.

Then I guess you don't know KO
Whats your point?
Are you saying the kids don't like KO - if so- come out and say it

 

[nyhuskies13]

They were in regardless. Tulsa freaking got in. But it fits your narrative to pretend not. Oh well.

Ok, remove that line about the 70ft shot. We got in and we were ousted in the 2nd round...

Since when is that acceptable as the best season we've had in 3 years?? We're not southwest idaho state tech

 

[ucp990411]

I admit there are things that happen that I have no idea about but I think Glen Miller got the shaft.

 

[CTBasketball]

I admit there are things that happen that I have no idea about but I think Glen Miller got the shaft.

Yep.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Ok, remove that line about the 70ft shot. We got in and we were ousted in the 2nd round...

Since when is that acceptable as the best season we've had in 3 years?? We're not southwest idaho state tech

It's not acceptable. Kevin Ollie knows that as well as anyone. What is you solution? Complain all you want but what do you propose? If it's firing Ollie, are you funding the many millions for that? Because UConn doesn't have the money. Then who are you hiring that is a clear and obvious upgrade? Because there are probably only a handful of guys who would be and none of them are coming here. You might get lucky and find the next Gregg Marshall, or you might find a guy who is awful. I am critical of Ollie because I think he needed to make changes in his staff and approach. But firing him would be insane.

Ollie has changed a key coach, brought in a great recruiter and may have changed the strength coach. Two players are gone. Others may decide to come to Storrs. We have no idea what else he plans to change in his approach, game planning, or anything else.

 

[hardcorehusky]

I disagree with the scary part, as what would have been scary was facing another year with Diaco, wondering when he would get fired! Edsall wasn't really on my radar, but I'm happy he was on someone's. He makes sense, he hit the ground running, and has made some good hires and recruiting successes. It's time for our football fans to get behind him, and knock off what happened when he left. I feel strongly there's a reason he did what he did, and we may never know, but it's done, he's here, and I for one can't wait for the Friday night Spring game. Sure would do wonders for the kids on the field, and those recruits coming in, if we had a nice crowd in the house.

Oddly enough, I was talking about basketball here. But you could easily have put that onto the football program. Both programs are suffering from lack of attendance which affects the bottom line. Changes had to be made.

 

[nyhuskies13]

It's not acceptable. Kevin Ollie knows that as well as anyone. What is you solution? Complain all you want but what do you propose? If it's firing Ollie, are you funding the many millions for that? Because UConn doesn't have the money. Then who are you hiring that is a clear and obvious upgrade? Because there are probably only a handful of guys who would be and none of them are coming here. You might get lucky and find the next Gregg Marshall, or you might find a guy who is awful. I am critical of Ollie because I think he needed to make changes in his staff and approach. But firing him would be insane.

Ollie has changed a key coach, brought in a great recruiter and may have changed the strength coach. Two players are gone. Others may decide to come to Storrs. We have no idea what else he plans to change in his approach, game planning, or anything else.

I don't have a solution. But I also don't get paid $3 million/year to figure it out either. I don't think we should fire Ollie. That's never been part of anything I've posted. But the program should understand they don't get a pass for 2-3 years just because changes were just made this offseason.

Being critical of the KO/team critiques is getting a little old. In good times, the team receives the love and adoration of an entire state and fanbase. People spend hard earned money and devote countless hours to show their support. KO is awarded contract extensions and gets paid millions. The state throws parades and pep rallies.

And when things go sour, we're allowed to be upset. We're allowed to be critical. We're allowed to vent frustrations - especially on the boneyard. I applaud the blind supporters, I really do. It takes some strength to see the good and remain positive at this point in our history. I just don't have that type of extreme optimism in me.

 

[upstater]

Going out in the second round of the NCAA tournament to a team like Kansas. Those of you who say this is unacceptable have crazy unrealistic expectations.

You want UConn in some years to go to a Final 8 or Final 4, but to say anything but that is unacceptable is just crazy.

Look around; get a clue.

 

[nyhuskies13]

Going out in the second round of the NCAA tournament to a team like Kansas. Those of you who say this is unacceptable have crazy unrealistic expectations.

You want UConn in some years to go to a Final 8 or Final 4, but to say anything but that is unacceptable is just crazy.

Look around; get a clue.

Dude, I don't even know how to respond to that.

Losing that one game to #1 Kansas in the 2nd round - no one has issue with that.

In 3 years, we've been to 1 tournament. So our best season in 3 years is a round of 32 appearance.... that's a problem

If those are your expectations for the program going forward, we'll never see eye to eye

 

[Vancat]

I admit there are things that happen that I have no idea about but I think Glen Miller got the shaft.

He's a bad mutha. (shut yo mouth)

 

[upstater]

Dude, I don't even know how to respond to that.

Losing that one game to #1 Kansas in the 2nd round - no one has issue with that.

In 3 years, we've been to 1 tournament. So our best season in 3 years is a round of 32 appearance.... that's a problem

If those are your expectations for the program going forward, we'll never see eye to eye

I expected more of this year. It's been this year that was a disappointment. A conference championship and a 2nd round exit is not unacceptable. It's not what they are shooting for, but it is acceptable. The previous year they had a lot of turnover after the seniors left (after winning a national championship).

You have one year of awfulness. Coaches like, for instance, Jay Wright, have had several of these.

Factor in the injuries, they were huge, and also the loss of Daniel Hamilton.

 

[Marat]

Jacob's thoughts on this topic:
www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-jacobs-column-uconn-bbturmoil-0330-20170329-column.html

He rightfully attacks Vance Sr and provides his thoughts.

 

[Vancat]

OMG. I agree with JJ.

 

[Tenspro2002]

This line stood out to me: "[Ollie] loves the toughness I tend to bring out in players..."

- Assuming it's not just a throw-away line, I'm very excited to hear that this is something KO is prioritizing among his players and staff
- I wonder if this is something KO recognized was failing, especially given that one area our bigs had shown very little of was toughness. This could potentially be another reason Miller was shown the door -- he doesn't strike me as someone who can instill and promote competitiveness and toughness, too cerebral (which is great in some areas, but not in the capacity of big-man coach).
- Likewise, I wonder if Enoch, and to a lesser extent Jackson, may have bristled at the suggestion that he needs to get tougher, and decided he wants out

Of course, it could just be a line that sounds good and not necessarily means much, but I think there's something to it.

 

[nyhuskies13]

This line stood out to me: "[Ollie] loves the toughness I tend to bring out in players..."

- Assuming it's not just a throw-away line, I'm very excited to hear that this is something KO is prioritizing among his players and staff
- I wonder if this is something KO recognized was failing, especially given that one area our bigs had shown very little of was toughness. This could potentially be another reason Miller was shown the door -- he doesn't strike me as someone who can instill and promote competitiveness and toughness, too cerebral (which is great in some areas, but not in the capacity of big-man coach).
- Likewise, I wonder if Enoch, and to a lesser extent Jackson, may have bristled at the suggestion that he needs to get tougher, and decided he wants out

Of course, it could just be a line that sounds good and not necessarily means much, but I think there's something to it.

If I could hit your post with 50 Likes, I would...

We lacked so hard in the toughness department this year. It was hard to watch. How bad? Ollie was quoted after the cincy game saying we got bullied and muscled around, or something to that extent.

UConn used to be the baddest team on the block. We used to intimidate and strike fear in another squads front court. If you were playing UConn, you better be ready for a back alley brawl. We were physical and tough.

The squad was soft this year. Cincy never has close to the talent we have on our roster. They never recruit over us. But Mick Cronin is on those kids every play (Calhoun-esque). And they respond by pushing us around. Can you imagine a 6'1 guard grabbing a rebound over our front court? Calhoun cursed you out and sat for the half. Ollie claps and encourages and let's you play through.

Kids respond to different approaches. But we just weren't tough enough this year. We got what? One technical this year. for Amida slamming the ball, after his 300th foul of the season that occurred 16feet from the hoop while going for a steal on a driving point guard..

 

[Mooch82]

I admit there are things that happen that I have no idea about but I think Glen Miller got the shaft.

I mean...maybe he did but something had to change. Ollie wasn't going to go. We just hired Killings, and Moore is young and potentially up and coming. It was broke, so you at least need to try to fix SOMETHING. I don't know what position Miller is in charge of but we really haven't had players improve at ANY position in the last 5 years so development is certainly not his strong suit. And our recruiting has been OK, not great. You certainly can't put the whole thing on Miller, or even more than 25% or it on Miller, but at some point a change needs to be made and unfortunately he was the victim.