Hugh Bailey: What does UConn owe Hartford? Maybe nothing (Hearst Editorial)

[CL82]

Largely agree. But 15k XL center doesn’t make more than 10k at Gampel due to the extra cost of playing there. Also, keep in mind that we don’t get parking or concession revenue in Hartford. money not earned his money lost.

Quick and dirty comp:

12500 x$3 = $37,500 + $40,000 = $77,500 per game.

11 x $77,500 = $852,500 x2 = $1,705,000
That would be the outlay for men’s and women’s basketball. Let’s call it half that for men’s and women’s hockey, so another $852,500. That makes the total out-of- costs for the XL $2,557,500.

Now that was, like I said, quick and dirty, if you want to refine that feel free.

That actually may be a little low since we know the total cost is 4 million for both the rent in the XL center and the cost for the rent is 175,000 per game. 175,000×6 equals $1,050,000. So that would make the cost for the XL about 3 million.

Also keep in mind that there is also a facility fee of approximately $20-$30,000 in addition to those fees above.

Oh and the actual lease rates are 40,500 and 20,500 that would be about an additional $16,500.

 

[Kemba Time]

Largely agree. But 15k XL center doesn’t make more than 10k at Gampel due to the extra cost of playing there. Also, keep in mind that we don’t get parking or concession revenue in Hartford. money not earned his money lost.

Quick and dirty comp:

12500 x$3 = $37,500 + $40,000 = $77,500 per game.

11 x $77,500 = $852,500 x2 = $1,705,000

That would be the outlay for men’s and women’s basketball. Let’s call it half that for men’s and women’s hockey, so another $852,500. That makes the total out-of- costs for the XL $2,557,500.

Now that was, like I said, quick and dirty, if you want to refine that feel free.

These numbers don’t seem to add up.

You can’t add that $3 charge to every game at 12,500. It is only that if 12,500 (and it’s actually 12,450) tickets are sold. An early season game that draws say 9,000 fans has a surcharge of $3 x 9,000, which is 10k below what you are saying. That is especially important where you have added women’s games to this and their opener had 7,000 fans.

The men play 8 games in the XL Center, if we used your per game number (which is high unless each game draws 12,500 fans) that would add up to $620,000, not the $852,000 you have and then doubled. I believe the women play 7 games there so their total would be even less.

We are also talking about basketball, not sure why hockey would get added in to me saying UConn does not lose $4 million playing basketball in Hartford.

Now that we are back to a number that is close to the 560,000 I laid out for men’s basketball, the additional $ from 5,000 paying fans at 5 XL sellouts over the same games as a Gampel sellout still covers that rent + surcharge number.

I mentioned parking + concessions in my original post as it becomes a matter of those two additional revenues for a Gampel game against lost seat licensing and donations from XL fans and corporations.

 

[Salty Dog]

I don't mind playing certain games at XL (games when students are on break, early season cupcakes, etc). We should under no circumstances be paying to play there. Don't care what type of accounting trick the state is trying to slide.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I don't mind playing certain games at XL (games when students are on break, early season cupcakes, etc). We should under no circumstances be paying to play there. Don't care what type of accounting trick the state is trying to slide.

This is what I’m thinking. Bare minimum have the state stop charging UConn to play there. Especially when UConn is carrying the building on its shoulders.

 

[Hoophound]

Funny thing is only in CT would that drive be considered “ far”. That’s a trip to grocery store in Kansas

In fariness, Rhode Islanders are far worse. Anything over 10 minutes is met with “Why would you wanna go all the way ova theya?”

 

[John]

I don't mind playing certain games at XL (games when students are on break, early season cupcakes, etc). We should under no circumstances be paying to play there. Don't care what type of accounting trick the state is trying to slide.

Cupcakes cost too much to play at the XL. Gampel needs to get all the cupcakes to make the numbers work.

 

[August_West]

The way this staff elects to schedule you'd be sticking Hartford with ooc dregs all in a months worth of time.

See that’s what I hate. XL supporters want it there because it’s easier to get to then bitch and make excuses for not attending because we play a cupcake. Then we get 5000 in a 15k arena with no concessions or parking revenue. The fact of the matter is the Hartford supporters don’t show out unless it’s a marquee game, so what’s the point of playing there at all?

The only way Hartford can make sense is if we put 12000 plus in there EVERY game.

 

[CL82]

These numbers don’t seem to add up.

You can’t add that $3 charge to every game at 12,500. It is only that if 12,500 (and it’s actually 12,450) tickets are sold. An early season game that draws say 9,000 fans has a surcharge of $3 x 9,000, which is 10k below what you are saying. That is especially important where you have added women’s games to this and their opener had 7,000 fans.

The men play 8 games in the XL Center, if we used your per game number (which is high unless each game draws 12,500 fans) that would add up to $620,000, not the $852,000 you have and then doubled. I believe the women play 7 games there so their total would be even less.

We are also talking about basketball, not sure why hockey would get added in to me saying UConn does not lose $4 million playing basketball in Hartford.

Now that we are back to a number that is close to the 560,000 I laid out for men’s basketball, the additional $ from 5,000 paying fans at 5 XL sellouts over the same games as a Gampel sellout still covers that rent + surcharge number.

I mentioned parking + concessions in my original post as it becomes a matter of those two additional revenues for a Gampel game against lost seat licensing and donations from XL fans and corporations.

Assuming that every game is a sellout is a best case scenario for the XL Center. Remember that you need a sellout to essentially break even revenue wise with games at Gampel. If not, the $40,000 lease has a greater impact. If you can have 10,000 people in Hartford and pay $70,000 for the privilege to do that or have 10,000 people in Gampel, which makes more sense financially?

We are talking about is the total amount money paid to the CDRA and the negative impact it has on the athletic department. I did break out the numbers in the post above so you can look at it from just the men’s basketball perspective if you want. I don’t think it’s a meaningful number as a standalone.

So, revising the number of games for basketball we are looking at:

8 x $78,000 = $624,000 x2 = $1,248,000

Including hockey we are looking $1,872,000.

And in addition, we are losing parking in concession revenue. In addition to that there is a facility fee of between 20 and $30,000 and I saw an article. I did a quick Google and couldn’t find it but I’m pretty sure I took a screen grab of it. If I think of it, I’ll go back and look but I didn’t include it in the numbers above anyway.

That’s a big nut.

So here’s the thing. If the state wants to thinks it’s desirable to attempt to subsidize Hartford’s economy, it is welcome to do so, but should not use the university’s athletic department as a conduit for that, because all that does is push the loss onto the universities books.

Where we find agreement is that the deal in Hartford is a bad deal financially. Again, perhaps the easiest fix is to renegotiate it, so that the university makes the same amount of money in either facility. That results in the CDRA having greater losses on its books but otherwise it’s a net nothing to the state. It’s a far more reasonable and logical approach.

Independent of that is the fact that teams prefer to play in Storrs and have become increasingly vocal about that with early, Auriemma, and Cavenaugh all having spoken about it. That doesn’t change the numbers, but it’s something were thinking about as well.

 

[CL82]

See that’s what I hate. XL supporters want it there because it’s easier to get to then bitch and make excuses for not attending because we play a cupcake. Then we get 5000 in a 15k arena with no concessions or parking revenue. The fact of the matter is the Hartford supporters don’t show out unless it’s a marquee game, so what’s the point of playing there at all?

The only way Hartford can make sense is if we put 12000 plus in there EVERY game.

agree, but it needs to be a sell out otherwise we make more money in Storrs.

 

[huskymedic]

These numbers don’t seem to add up.

You can’t add that $3 charge to every game at 12,500. It is only that if 12,500 (and it’s actually 12,450) tickets are sold. An early season game that draws say 9,000 fans has a surcharge of $3 x 9,000, which is 10k below what you are saying. That is especially important where you have added women’s games to this and their opener had 7,000 fans.

The men play 8 games in the XL Center, if we used your per game number (which is high unless each game draws 12,500 fans) that would add up to $620,000, not the $852,000 you have and then doubled. I believe the women play 7 games there so their total would be even less.

We are also talking about basketball, not sure why hockey would get added in to me saying UConn does not lose $4 million playing basketball in Hartford.

Now that we are back to a number that is close to the 560,000 I laid out for men’s basketball, the additional $ from 5,000 paying fans at 5 XL sellouts over the same games as a Gampel sellout still covers that rent + surcharge number.

I mentioned parking + concessions in my original post as it becomes a matter of those two additional revenues for a Gampel game against lost seat licensing and donations from XL fans and corporations.

Assuming that every game is a sellout is a best case scenario for the XL Center. Remember that you need a sellout to essentially break even revenue wise with games at Gampel. If not, the $40,000 lease has a greater impact. If you can have 10,000 people in Hartford and pay $70,000 for the privilege to do that or have 10,000 people in Gampel, which makes more sense financially?

We are talking about is the total amount money paid to the CDRA and the negative impact it has on the athletic department. I did break out the numbers in the post above so you can look at it from just the men’s basketball perspective if you want. I don’t think it’s a meaningful number as a standalone.

So, revising the number of games for basketball we are looking at:

8 x $78,000 = $624,000 x2 = $1,248,000

Including hockey we are looking $1,872,000.

And in addition, we are losing parking in concession revenue. In addition to that there is a facility fee of between 20 and $30,000 and I saw an article. I did a quick Google and couldn’t find it but I’m pretty sure I took a screen grab of it. If I think of it, I’ll go back and look but I didn’t include it in the numbers above anyway.

That’s a big nut.

So here’s the thing. If the state wants to thinks it’s desirable to attempt to subsidize Hartford’s economy, it is welcome to do so, but should not use the university’s athletic department as a conduit for that, because all that does is push the loss onto the universities books.

Where we find agreement is that the deal in Hartford is a bad deal financially. Again, perhaps the easiest fix is to renegotiate it, so that the university makes the same amount of money in either facility. That results in the CDRA having greater losses on its books but otherwise it’s a net nothing to the state. It’s a far more reasonable and logical approach.

Independent of that is the fact that teams prefer to play in Storrs and have become increasingly vocal about that with early, Auriemma, and Cavenaugh all having spoken about it. That doesn’t change the numbers, but it’s something were thinking about as well.

Once you get past the snark and self serving commentary - this article has some additional data for the equation:

-> “For men’s basketball, consider the average of 10,000 fans at XL at the average ticket price of $35. That equals $350,000 with a cost at the building of $40k in rent and $35k in game day expenses. That still means a net earn of $280,000.”

Freimuth said expenses for UConn athletics at the XL are as follows: hockey $29k per game; men’s basketball $75k and women’s basketball $65k. Meanwhile, the approximate gross ticket sales per game per sport: Hockey, $37k; men’s basketball, 308k and women’s basketball 175k.

Consider the UConn men’s basketball home game at the XL Center Dec. 28 vs. Villanova. The game was announced as a sellout (15,564). Actual tickets sold came to 11,858 at an average ticket price of $38.93. That’s a gross revenue of $461,666. And who, again, is telling Maric that leaving Hartford is a good idea?

“Now it’s fair that there may be some transportation/hotel expenses to the program for XL,” Freimuth said. “But let's not forget there are 80,000 UConn alumni within 30 minutes of XL, three campuses in Hartford (Law, Business and Regional) and the corporate sponsors that are downtown. Without digging too deep, XL also pays $225,000 to UConn each year for its IMG sponsorship deal and UConn fees are maxed at the XL per existing contract for all three sports at $1.8M. Somehow, they've come up with $4M per year.” <-

 

[August_West]

agree, but it needs to be a sell out otherwise we make more money in Storrs.

yes. But Im just putting it in the frame of reasonable fan support in this case. We do not get reasonable fan support at XL generally, it's hyped for marquee games once maybe twice a year, sure, but a ghost town for the UMBC's of the world and early schedule.

Here is something else that I don't get since we are all UConn fans here.

Competitive advantage.

Having a steady home arena (especially on campus) is a competitive advantage. We, as fans, should want every competitive advantage our team can have. Make no mistake about it, we mitigate our home competitive advantage (in both arenas!) by splitting our home games. If anyone in this thread tries to tell me we don't have a bigger competitive advantage in Gampel, than Hartford, we don't see basketball the same way.

I promise you that every BigEast opposing coach when they get the season's schedule looks first thing at their UConn road game to see if it is at XL or Gampel and if it is at XL they breathe a sigh of relief. Opposing coaches know Gampel is a competitive advantage over XL, opposing fans know Gampel is a competitive advantage over XL (don't believe me? Head over to Friar Talk and read the threads before last weeks game). Why doesn't a big part of our fanbase know that?

Hurley can never say it publicly, but I know he knows this too.

Duke plays all their home games at Cameron it's smaller than Gampel. It is one of the best Home competitive advantages in college basketball.

If UConn played ALL their games at Gampel and it was our Cameron it would be an even greater competitive advantage than it all ready is, because of home familiarity. By only playing 1/2 the games there, we are giving away competitive advantage and it keeps us from making it a truly monstrous place to play.

Instead we play something that is a quasi neutral site game every time we play in Hartford, ( it is way more of a home game than a neutral site to be sure, but it is less of a home game than Gampel)

But god forbid FFC residents drive an extra 25-30 minutes.

 

[Captbluefin]

People more worried about the extra 20mins instead of a much better atmosphere and winning games. And playing where the coaches and players want to play.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

yes. But Im just putting it in the frame of reasonable fan support in this case. We do not get reasonable fan support at XL generally, it's hyped for marquee games once maybe twice a year, sure, but a ghost town for the UMBC's of the world and early schedule.

Here is something else that I don't get since we are all UConn fans here.

Competitive advantage.

Having a steady home arena (especially on campus) is a competitive advantage. We, as fans, should want every competitive advantage our team can have. Make no mistake about it, we mitigate our home competitive advantage (in both arenas!) by splitting our home games. If anyone in this thread tries to tell me we don't have a bigger competitive advantage in Gampel, than Hartford, we don't see basketball the same way.

I promise you that every BigEast opposing coach when they get the season's schedule looks first thing at their UConn road game to see if it is at XL or Gampel and if it is at XL they breathe a sigh of relief. Opposing coaches know Gampel is a competitive advantage over XL, opposing fans know Gampel is a competitive advantage over XL (don't believe me? Head over to Friar Talk and read the threads before last weeks game). Why doesn't a big part of our fanbase know that?

Hurley can never say it publicly, but I know he knows this too.

Duke plays all their home games at Cameron it's smaller than Gampel. It is one of the best Home competitive advantages in college basketball.

If UConn played ALL their games at Gampel and it was our Cameron it would be an even greater competitive advantage than it all ready is, because of home familiarity. By only playing 1/2 the games there, we are giving away competitive advantage and it keeps us from making it a truly monstrous place to play.

Instead we play something that is a quasi neutral site game every time we play in Hartford, ( it is way more of a home game than a neutral site to be sure, but it is less of a home game than Gampel)

But god forbid FFC residents drive an extra 25-30 minutes.

Another tiny little additional burr in my saddle about Fairfield County residents - they don't count for us DMA wise, they belong to Rutgers.

 

[UConntLose]

Nothing gets me more annoyed than people complaining that Storrs isn't as convenient as Hartford. That is such a weak and pathetic argument. I live near Danbury and would much rather go to Storrs to see a game. Why is it that in a state as small as Connecticut, people moan and groan about going to Storrs over Hartford? People from Kentucky - a much bigger state than Connecticut - will drive all over to see their Wildcats. They don't need a secondary location.

For the people in Fairfield County: get familiar with 384. It's so freaking easy if you go that way (literally stay in the left lane and just go straight till you see the UConn sign and then turn right). And if you're driving from Fairfield, take the 25-26 exit off I-91 (3 North) to bypass Hartford altogether.

Stop the b!+ching and enjoy college sports where they are meant to be played - on campus.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

So wait, The Gampel truthers have gone from we lose $4M a year playing in Hartford to well we don't make as much there, maybe.

Still never have accounted for a larger season ticket holder base in Hartford which accounts for more revenue via the PSLs as well as the intangible aspects of being more accessible for a larger audience and playing nice with the state.

I've had season tickets for both - my take is that for a big game the atmospheres are equal, but to the many points made above for the dregs on the schedule Civic center is a ghost town. To act like Gampel is somehow above that though... please we all saw the AAC Ollie days when the students wouldn't even fill up the opposite end student section.

 

[uconnric]

Nothing gets me more annoyed than people complaining that Storrs isn't as convenient as Hartford. That is such a weak and pathetic argument. I live near Danbury and would much rather go to Storrs to see a game. Why is it that in a state as small as Connecticut, people moan and groan about going to Storrs over Hartford? People from Kentucky - a much bigger state than Connecticut - will drive all over to see their Wildcats. They don't need a secondary location.

For the people in Fairfield County: get familiar with 384. It's so freaking easy if you go that way (literally stay in the left lane and just go straight till you see the UConn sign and then turn right). And if you're driving from Fairfield, take the 25-26 exit off I-91 (3 North) to bypass Hartford altogether.

Stop the b!+ching and enjoy college sports where they are meant to be played - on campus.

Maybe instead of all the posturing taking place in this thread, maybe the season ticket holders and donors should be polled by UConn as to where people want to see the games. Otherwise there is nothing much accomplished here.

 

[Inyatkin]

Someone please enlighten me to the point in time when Miami could claim being UConn's top rival. Oh wait, you can't because that isn't true for even a single day.

Sorry you don't remember the late '90s, but they absolutely were

 

[Kemba Time]

Sorry you don't remember the late '90s, but they absolutely were

I remember the late 90s quite well, and I was a student at UConn during the infamous Darius Rice game in 2002. Miami had a little uptick for a few years there with Tim James, Salmons and Co. under Hamilton but there is no point that it was a bigger rivalry than take your pick of Syracuse, St. John's, Nova or G'Town even during that stretch, which is the claim in the story using "UConn's top rival"

 

[Inyatkin]

I remember the late 90s quite well, and I was a student at UConn during the infamous Darius Rice game in 2002. Miami had a little uptick for a few years there with Tim James, Salmons and Co. under Hamilton but there is no point that it was a bigger rivalry than take your pick of Syracuse, St. John's, Nova or G'Town even during that stretch, which is the claim in the story using "UConn's top rival"

I was a student in '99, and they were the most feared game by far, with good reason. The Big East was also going through a down stretch. I'd have no problem saying they were our top rival for a short stretch.

 

[CL82]

Consider the UConn men’s basketball home game at the XL Center Dec. 28 vs. Villanova. The game was announced as a sellout (15,564). Actual tickets sold came to 11,858 at an average ticket price of $38.93. That’s a gross revenue of $461,666.

I’ll read the article when I get a chance later today, but I am glad the CDRA is feeling pressure on this and good to see better number is coming out.

Regarding the quote above, it’s disingenuous by Freimuth. he takes a best case scenario of a sellout and says, well they still made nearly a half million. If he was honest, he would also take the lowest attendance game at XL and say well they lost about X dollars. And he also uses “average ticket price” instead of actual ticket revenue. So if you take the least expensive ticket at XL in the most expensive, add them together and divide by two you come up with an average ticket price of $40. But that doesn’t mean that the university is earning $40 for every seat. All this stuff is “quick and dirty” and he’s certainly entitled to represent the figures in the way that’s most favorable to him, but that doesn’t mean that the university made a half million on that game. Note that he also disregards the cost to the team of hotel rooms, transportation, off-campus, meals, etc.

Note that that doesn’t change the amount of money that they’re leaving on the table. The notion that “well, the university still made money” doesn’t change the fact that they are still out of pocket the cost of leasing the facility. (For the math impaired, if you sell your car on your own, you’d make $100, but say alternatively, you decide to sell your car on my website at a cost of charge you $200, if you sell your car for $150, have you made more money?)

Again, the bottom line on all of this is, if the state of Connecticut wants the university to subsidize Hartford’s economy by playing in Hartford, the cost of that shouldn’t be incurred by the University.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Sorry you don't remember the late '90s, but they absolutely were

Yeah, for about three and a half hours.

 

[huskymedic]

Note that he also disregards the cost to the team of hotel rooms, transportation, off-campus, meals, etc.

He didn't disregard them...

“Now it’s fair that there may be some transportation/hotel expenses to the program for XL,” Freimuth said. “But let's not forget there are 80,000 UConn alumni within 30 minutes of XL, three campuses in Hartford (Law, Business and Regional) and the corporate sponsors that are downtown. Without digging too deep, XL also pays $225,000 to UConn each year for its IMG sponsorship deal and UConn fees are maxed at the XL per existing contract for all three sports at $1.8M. Somehow, they've come up with $4M per year.”

 

[CL82]

He didn't disregard them...

“Now it’s fair that there may be some transportation/hotel expenses to the program for XL,” Freimuth said. “But let's not forget there are 80,000 UConn alumni within 30 minutes of XL, three campuses in Hartford (Law, Business and Regional) and the corporate sponsors that are downtown. Without digging too deep, XL also pays $225,000 to UConn each year for its IMG sponsorship deal and UConn fees are maxed at the XL per existing contract for all three sports at $1.8M. Somehow, they've come up with $4M per year.”

He mentioned them later in the article, but he didn’t include them in that particular example from December 28th, did he? I will also note that in the quote above he talked about lease payments to the XL Center only, even though he is well aware that the $4 million figure includes what UConn pays the CDRA for use of the Rent. That’s a little disingenuous, no?

FWIW, I have no problem whatsoever with him, presenting the figures in a favorable manner to the CDRA. I just noticed that in the quotes you provided.

 

[Kolumbo]

Please, someone, explain this to me.

Why does UCONN pay to play in Hartford rather than Hartford paying UCONN to play in Hartford? It makes Zero sense to me. UCONN needs to go big. Hartford needs to go big. Put this XL Center nonsense to rest.

 

[Waquoit]

Maybe instead of all the posturing taking place in this thread, maybe the season ticket holders and donors should be polled by UConn as to where people want to see the games. Otherwise there is nothing much accomplished here.

Fans that buy tickets at face value, pay seat donations in the hundreds of dollars and go to games have already voted with their wallet. The chat room commandos are the ones that would vote against it.