How UConn athletic director David Benedict views conference realignment: ‘Landscape is changing’ (Borges)

[UConnJim]

March Madness is a $1b a year thing.

Let's say the football schools took it over and made it a lot less interesting. What would it be worth?

Yes, it is a $1 billion business. But, most of the money that does not get distributed to the D1 schools goes towards funding the NCAA, insurance, legal, D2 and D3 schools and championships, and the non-revenue NCAA D1 championships. And, funds get distributed to almost every college in the US. There are over 1000 colleges touched by the NCAA distributions. Do you think the SEC and Big 10 will want to take that money away from 1000 other schools? Politically, do you think they can get away with it?

 

[Chief00]

Don’t discount some iteration of the OBE. With UT and OK going to the SEC the Big 12 just doesn’t seem very exciting and small market. The SEC now will be the football conference in TX especially since A&M is already a member.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Yes, it is a $1 billion business. But, most of the money that does not get distributed to the D1 schools goes towards funding the NCAA, insurance, legal, D2 and D3 schools and championships, and the non-revenue NCAA D1 championships. And, funds get distributed to almost every college in the US. There are over 1000 colleges touched by the NCAA distributions. Do you think the SEC and Big 10 will want to take that money away from 1000 other schools? Politically, do you think they can get away with it?

It doesn't matter what the NCAA tournament is worth all that matters is can they make more than they are currently making by creating something new?

The P5 have already "left" the NCAA in regards to the Football playoff. The CFP pays money directly to the conferences not to the NCAA for distribution.

If they get someone to pay them they can create the SEC/B1G basketball championship which would be an event they wouldn't have to share with anyone else.

Would someone be willing to pay for that, and if so, how much? I don't have a clue but, be assured if it's more than their current share of the tournament it will definitely be on the table

 

[bendm]

if they get someone to pay them they can create the SEC/B1G basketball championship which would be an event they wouldn't have to share with anyone else.

who in the bleep thinks an SEC-B1G challenge is comparable to march madness. dont they already have that?

 

[Hondo 77]

Call me crazy (I am) but if the ACC was smart and they were losing Clemson/FSU (and ND), they actually should just absorb the Big East and do a hybrid league. Let's face it, if you want to keep UNC happy it's through basketball and not football. Assuming the Big 12 stays put, you can add Memphis to bring it to an even football number (14) and then you'd have a 24 league basketball league you could regionalize into 3 divisions of 8. You could make a super basketball conference to rival the super football leagues -- it's your only hope, really to get as much money as possible.

To get your ~20 conference games, you play everyone in your division twice (14 games) and then 3 from each of the other divisions on a rotating basis. Big East Tournament in MSG could take the top 16 teams (top 4 from each division and then 4 "Wild Cards"). Hell, if you wanted to make it start on Tuesday and give out some byes to include all 24 teams, you could do that too.

(* denotes football school)

Big East Coast Conference North:

1. BC*
2. Syracuse*
3. UConn*
4. Providence
5. Villanova
6. Georgetown
7. St. Johns
8. Seton Hall

BECC Midwest

1. Memphis*
2. Louisville*
3. Marquette
4. Xavier
5. Butler
6. Creighton
7. DePaul
8. Pitt*

BECC South:

1. UVA*
2. Va Tech*
3. Duke*
4. NC State*
5. UNC*
6. Wake*
7. Ga Tech*
8. Miami*

A football conference of 14 teams is still solid: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, UVA, Va Tech, Duke, NC State, UNC, Wake, Ga Tech, Miami, Memphis, UConn. Let's face it, without Clemson or FSU the ACC is essentially useless in football -- but maybe Va Tech/Miami/Louisville/Pitt can catch fire every year and make some noise in an 8-team CFP. Also, how fun of a baseball conference would this be?

The Catholics want nothing further to do with football schools.

 

[upstater]

A lot less. Chump change compared to what those schools would already be making- over 100 million each from football alone. There’s gotta be a limit to the greed. They’d be destroying it just for the sake of it.

There is no limit to their greed.

 

[upstater]

Yes, it is a $1 billion business. But, most of the money that does not get distributed to the D1 schools goes towards funding the NCAA, insurance, legal, D2 and D3 schools and championships, and the non-revenue NCAA D1 championships. And, funds get distributed to almost every college in the US. There are over 1000 colleges touched by the NCAA distributions. Do you think the SEC and Big 10 will want to take that money away from 1000 other schools? Politically, do you think they can get away with it?

Yes, of course they can get away with it. And yes, they'll be glad to take the money away.

 

[bendm]

The Catholics want nothing further to do with football schools.

but the catholics love money too

if the BE merged w/ the top football teams in the north atlantic region that aren't invited to the superconference (e.g. Cuse, BC, Pitt, Temple, Wake, Army, Navy, Memphis and NC St or Lville) we could have a great ~20 team bball league and a really solid ~10 team football league

if the football schools split 2/3 of the revenue between them and the bball only schools spit 1/3 between them, i bet it would be worth more than the BE pays out now, especially without UConn as a member anymore.

 

[Slick]

Yes, it is a $1 billion business. But, most of the money that does not get distributed to the D1 schools goes towards funding the NCAA, insurance, legal, D2 and D3 schools and championships, and the non-revenue NCAA D1 championships. And, funds get distributed to almost every college in the US. There are over 1000 colleges touched by the NCAA distributions. Do you think the SEC and Big 10 will want to take that money away from 1000 other schools? Politically, do you think they can get away with it?

They absolutely don’t care about other schools. Just look how much ucla and usc cared about leaving the pac 12 after 93 years

 

[HuskyHawk]

Would be a monumentally stupid idea.

Indeed. It won't happen for that reason. College football is just different. There is no Cinderella storyline (despite Cincy last year). The NCAA tournament is popular because of the Loyala-Chicago and St. Peters moments.

If a football super-conference emerges, I think it will just be for football. Other conferences will exist for Olympic sports even for those schools in the super football league. The rest of the D1 football schools will simply become an effective 1A level sport, possibly with a tournament of their own.

 

[CL82]

There’s gotta be a limit to the greed

 

[CL82]

Indeed. It won't happen for that reason. College football is just different. There is no Cinderella storyline (despite Cincy last year). The NCAA tournament is popular because of the Loyala-Chicago and St. Peters moments.

If a football super-conference emerges, I think it will just be for football. Other conferences will exist for Olympic sports even for those schools in the super football league. The rest of the D1 football schools will simply become an effective 1A level sport, possibly with a tournament of their own.

So what is the monetary value of the “Cinderella story line“? Let’s say, hypothetically, it’s worth 50% of the value of the NCAA tournament. If you are the P2, do you leave a half $1 billion a year on the table?

(For what it’s worth, there will always be Cinderella teams. If Rutgers, or Northwestern goes on a run, there’s your Cinderella.)

 

[CL82]

Do you think the SEC and Big 10 will want to take that money away from 1000 other schools?

Yes.

Politically, do you think they can get away with it?

Yes.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So what is the monetary value of the “Cinderella story line“? Let’s say, hypothetically, it’s worth 50% of the value of the NCAA tournament. If you are the P2, do you leave a half $1 billion a year on the table?

(For what it’s worth, there will always be Cinderella teams. If Rutgers, or Northwestern goes on a run, there’s your Cinderella.)

It's about how broad the appeal is in my opinion. We tend to think about UConn, other flagship state universities and a few elite private schools. Most people attend schools more like CCSU. Knowing they can get in, or go on a run if they do, expands the appeal of college basketball. Unlike football, there are 350 D1 basketball programs. So the number "left out" is much larger. Narrow the access to the NCAA tournament from 350 to 60, and honestly not many people would care about it anymore.

 

[bobbyinaz]

who in the bleep thinks an SEC-B1G challenge is comparable to march madness. dont they already have that?

It doesn't have to compare to March Madness. You keep thinking they care about keeping the magic of the tournament when all they care about is how can they make more money.

My point is that IF someone is willing to pay them more money than each of those conferences currently gets in distributions from the NCAA they will absolutely explore it.

 

[CL82]

It's about how broad the appeal is in my opinion. We tend to think about UConn, other flagship state universities and a few elite private schools. Most people attend schools more like CCSU. Knowing they can get in, or go on a run if they do, expands the appeal of college basketball. Unlike football, there are 350 D1 basketball programs. So the number "left out" is much larger. Narrow the access to the NCAA tournament from 350 to 60, and honestly not many people would care about it anymore.

How much do the Cinderella fans really care about their programs, in the context that you were talking about? Do they have media deals? Is that an indicator of the perception of the strengths of their fandom?

Now, look at the vast majority of the high majors and particularly the P2 schools. What is their level of fan intensity? I don’t know what the value is of “oh look St. Mary’s is having a run, isn’t that nice?” Versus the day in, day out intensity of, say, a Michigan fan. If, say, 20% of the people in the country bring 90% of the viewership value to watching college sports, is it a better investment to target that 20% or to take a shotgun approach trying to get the remaining 10% of viewership?

(60 is probably too low number, but 80 to 90 schools, might be the sweet spot.)

Keep in mind, also, that a P2 owned tournament wouldn’t necessarily have to exclude the rest of the schools. They could invite other schools to participate. If the P2 tournament payment was greater than the NCAA tournament payment, schools would pick it over the NCAA, and the NCAA would go the way of the NIT.

 

[bobbyinaz]

So what is the monetary value of the “Cinderella story line“? Let’s say, hypothetically, it’s worth 50% of the value of the NCAA tournament. If you are the P2, do you leave a half $1 billion a year on the table?

(For what it’s worth, there will always be Cinderella teams. If Rutgers, or Northwestern goes on a run, there’s your Cinderella.)

It doesn't even have to be $500MM to make a move. This article shows the money paid to each conference for the tournament:

March Madness — ACC, Big Ten Earn $36.4 Million in NCAA Tournament

The ACC and Big Ten made the most money in the 2022 NCAA Tournament.

www.basketballinsiders.com

Would someone be willing to pay the SEC/B1G $100+MM/year to play a 16 or 24 team tournament? I don't know, but if people don't think they will explore it they're being foolish.

 

[superjohn]

How much do the Cinderella fans really care about their programs, in the context that you were talking about? Do they have media deals? Is that an indicator of the perception of the strengths of their fandom?

Now, look at the vast majority of the high majors and particularly the P2 schools. What is their level of fan intensity? I don’t know what the value is of “oh look St. Mary’s is having a run, isn’t that nice?” Versus the day in, day out intensity of, say, a Michigan fan. If, say, 20% of the people in the country bring 90% of the viewership value to watching college sports, is it a better investment to target that 20% or to take a shotgun approach trying to get the remaining 10% of viewership?

(60 is probably too low number, but 80 to 90 schools, might be the sweet spot.)

Keep in mind, also, that a P2 owned tournament wouldn’t necessarily have to exclude the rest of the schools. They could invite other schools to participate. If the P2 tournament payment was greater than the NCAA tournament payment, schools would pick it over the NCAA, and the NCAA would go the way of the NIT.

It's not about alumni of the small Cinderella schools, it's that the small schools have a chance of competing against the huge schools with all the advantages. It's what gets everyone around the country to tune in and care about the tournament. You get people who never watch college basketball or sports in general to actually care about it and no Rutgers winning a couple of games doesn't have any of that same effect that the Roadrunners, Peacocks or Banana Slugs winning a couple of games does.

 

[CL82]

It's not about alumni of the small Cinderella schools, it's that the small schools have a chance of competing against the huge schools with all the advantages. It's what gets everyone around the country to tune in and care about the tournament. You get people who never watch college basketball or sports in general to actually care about it and no Rutgers winning a couple of games doesn't have any of that same effect that the Roadrunners, Peacocks or Banana Slugs winning a couple of games does.

I get it, but think about all your favorite division two teams who don’t get a chance to compete for in March madness… On a 0 to 10 scale, how frustrated are you every March that they are not competing for the D1 championship? It will be the same way with whomever are the cast offs from D1. Out of sight, out of mind.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to be wrong on this. I just don’t think I am.

 

[87Xfer]

 

[McLovin]

Certainly a better pitch than playing games on Nickelodeon!

 

[McLovin]

How much do the Cinderella fans really care about their programs, in the context that you were talking about? Do they have media deals? Is that an indicator of the perception of the strengths of their fandom?

Now, look at the vast majority of the high majors and particularly the P2 schools. What is their level of fan intensity? I don’t know what the value is of “oh look St. Mary’s is having a run, isn’t that nice?” Versus the day in, day out intensity of, say, a Michigan fan. If, say, 20% of the people in the country bring 90% of the viewership value to watching college sports, is it a better investment to target that 20% or to take a shotgun approach trying to get the remaining 10% of viewership?

(60 is probably too low number, but 80 to 90 schools, might be the sweet spot.)

Keep in mind, also, that a P2 owned tournament wouldn’t necessarily have to exclude the rest of the schools. They could invite other schools to participate. If the P2 tournament payment was greater than the NCAA tournament payment, schools would pick it over the NCAA, and the NCAA would go the way of the NIT.

For basketball I think your right, the pool needs to be bigger than the 40/48 in the 2 super leagues to have a legitimate tournament.

I’d hate it, but I’d bet it would become somewhere where a .500 or better conference record from the 2 super leagues guarantee a spot and the rest of the “at large” field will be hand picked to fill out the 64 slots. Gone will be the auto bids for the MAAC and American East.

And if the super leagues own the tournament and it’s rights, they can payout the money to participating schools any way they want, meaning they can choose to pay little to no money. Would UConn accept an invite to play in March Madness for $0 but a shot at glory / taking down the super league, or would they choose to play the NIT for some small NCAA distributions. A decision we may have to make one day…

 

[superjohn]

I get it, but think about all your favorite division two teams who don’t get a chance to compete for in March madness… On a 0 to 10 scale, how frustrated are you every March that they are not competing for the D1 championship? It will be the same way with whomever are the cast offs from D1. Out of sight, out of mind.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to be wrong on this. I just don’t think I am.

I strongly disagree and I've never watched a D2 game in my life.

 

[McLovin]

I've never watched a D2 game in my life.

That was his point. They are irrelevant and no one cares about their programs simply because their exclusion from March Madness has made it that way.

 

[ThabeetDown]

The latest rumor is that UNC/UVA/FSU/Clemson are trying to go to SEC and ESPN is trying to void their ACC deal. I'm not even going to bother posting the tweet even though it's by a verified Twitter user since he's a swimming reporter. With that said, both scenarios are obviously realistic and I think the hybrid BE/ACC would still make the most sense. Like I said in my crazy post yesterday, there is still value in basketball, even if it's less than football.

Duke now becomes the sole biggest brand in the new ACC, and they are basketball. Appease to them. Adding UConn/BE schools especially Nova are a huge boost to salvage what's left. You get MSG for the Big East Coast Conference tourney. It's worth noting the current BE media deal expires after 2024-25...aka 3 years...aka when Mora said he wants to be in the ACC...

I think 24 teams (14 for football) should still be on the table. But instead of UNC/UVA being included like my proposed list yesterday you probably have to add USF and then who knows (with UConn/Memphis already in to play football). SMU? UNC Charlotte? And that's of course if the B12 doesn't pick off Pitt/Louisville -- maybe the BE/ACC can pick off WVU first?