How much does coaching matter?

[Jaydumo20]

There needs to be some level of athletic ability among players. With that being said, how much does coaching matter?

Given the same players that we had last year and the year before do you think there is another staff in the country that would've accomplished the same thing? That being 12 consecutive wins by double digits?

If we are the best, how much of an advantage is that? Is it better to have a cooper flagg with Duke's staff? Or our guys with our staff?

(I'll say it before anyone states the obvious. It's better to have our staff and the best players. But that's not reality)

Have fun

 

[Waquoit]

It's a function. The closer the teams are in ability, the more coaching matters.

 

[imno1]

A Lot

 

[shizzle787]

A lot in college. Some in the NBA, but definitely less so.

 

[Fishy]

I think our last two teams were really, really talented, so maybe some coaches could have come in and won a title with them.

But two titles, crushing everyone along the way….no.

The offense, especially last year, was something beyond what most other coaches could do.

 

[ctchamps]

Zero. According to Boneyard legend UConn got its fourth National Championship without a coach.

 

[Dogfish]

Your Honor, I present to the court exhibit A: John Calipari.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

There needs to be some level of athletic ability among players. With that being said, how much does coaching matter?

Given the same players that we had last year and the year before do you think there is another staff in the country that would've accomplished the same thing? That being 12 consecutive wins by double digits?

If we are the best, how much of an advantage is that? Is it better to have a cooper flagg with Duke's staff? Or our guys with our staff?

(I'll say it before anyone states the obvious. It's better to have our staff and the best players. But that's not reality)

Have fun

That depends on how you define coaching:

In todays world is multifaceted:
Player recruitment either through traditional methods , or portal both incoming and outgoing are over half the battle
*Player development is another aspect although in the current world of a few super talented 4 year players and transfers its a little overrated as you simply don’t have the time anymore
Game Preparation and scouting occupy the days leading up to game and the quality of your staff , important in all phases teally have prepare you that their are no suprises
Finally game iitselef is more motivational , putting the best combination on the floor and reminders of things you’ve already discussed
The players simply have to execute

* My standard for player development is turning a weakness into a strength or acquiring a new skill set ( it’s rare ) Since basketball players mature simply doing what they do on a more consistent basis is more maturation than development.

 

[Waquoit]

Zero. According to Boneyard legend UConn got its fourth National Championship without a coach.

Player-coach

 

[Chasm64]

Zero. According to Boneyard legend UConn got its fourth National Championship without a coach.

That team had 2 great coaches named Napier and Boatright.

 

[alphasigko]

The offense, especially last year, was something beyond what most other coaches could do.

This!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think our last two teams were really, really talented, so maybe some coaches could have come in and won a title with them.

But two titles, crushing everyone along the way….no.

The offense, especially last year, was something beyond what most other coaches could do.

I think there are a lot of good coaches out there, but I think the best coaches build a plan around the talent they have, and build their talent around their plan. The best coaches know those two things are symbiotic.

Hurley/Murray's offense is revolutionary, and exploits huge holes in modern, analytics-oriented defenses. Hurley and the staff put together the perfect team to maximize this new offense.

You look at a lot of old time coaches, and they basically played pickup offenses, with the goal of getting their stars as many shots as possible. They would win if they had the best players, and would lose if they didn't. Calipari is an extreme example of someone that was abysmal as a coach despite potentially having as many future NBA Hall of Famers over the last 15 years as the rest of the colleges combined. Boeheim is a better example of a coach that basically didn't have an offense, had a well-executed but unoriginal defense, and was very successful with this style when he had players that liked that.

Those offenses have not aged well though. The better coaches focus on the type of shot rather than who takes it, and scoring is balancing out within teams as offenses become more efficient. Analytics offenses are good at eliminating the 5-10 worst shots a game that teams used to take. As they continue to refine, you are seeing a return of post play because some coaches are better understanding the continuous probability nature of measuring shot efficiency.

 

[Palatine]

Who was the last lousy coach to win a tittle. And don't say Ollie. He had that team playing at a very high level.

 

[Fishy]

Who was the last lousy coach to win a tittle. And don't say Ollie. He had that team playing at a very high level.

It’s Kevin Ollie.

But outside of that…probably Tubby Smith whenever he won at Kentucky.

 

[RuffRuff]

It’s Kevin Ollie.

But outside of that…probably Tubby Smith whenever he won at Kentucky.

Unique situation when you adopt upperclassmen that were developed by a legend.

 

[freescooter]

I think there are a lot of good coaches out there, but I think the best coaches build a plan around the talent they have, and build their talent around their plan. The best coaches know those two things are symbiotic.

Hurley/Murray's offense is revolutionary, and exploits huge holes in modern, analytics-oriented defenses. Hurley and the staff put together the perfect team to maximize this new offense.

You look at a lot of old time coaches, and they basically played pickup offenses, with the goal of getting their stars as many shots as possible. They would win if they had the best players, and would lose if they didn't. Calipari is an extreme example of someone that was abysmal as a coach despite potentially having as many future NBA Hall of Famers over the last 15 years as the rest of the colleges combined. Boeheim is a better example of a coach that basically didn't have an offense, had a well-executed but unoriginal defense, and was very successful with this style when he had players that liked that.

Those offenses have not aged well though. The better coaches focus on the type of shot rather than who takes it, and scoring is balancing out within teams as offenses become more efficient. Analytics offenses are good at eliminating the 5-10 worst shots a game that teams used to take. As they continue to refine, you are seeing a return of post play because some coaches are better understanding the continuous probability nature of measuring shot efficiency.

I think that is a good analysis. I also think that good mid-major coaches are different than good power conference coaches and it might be why they don’t automatically make the transition. The good mid major guys need to know what they can do and can’t do and design their play to reflect that. Take advantage of the strengths and hide weaknesses. Power conference teams have a different dynamic. Obviously they have strengths and weaknesses too. But the difference is not as significant. And it isn’t as critical to not miss something. In some ways Hurley coaches more like a mid-major guy.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Who was the last lousy coach to win a tittle. And don't say Ollie. He had that team playing at a very high level.

Not even a question. Calipari is a terrible coach.

 

[ctchamps]

Player-coach

That team had 2 great coaches named Napier and Boatright.

Did they have a contract? Were they hired by an AD? That’s the point of this thread. And the Boneyard has determined a coach is redundant.

Speaking of player coaches Khalid did as much if not more in orchestrating his teams. Changed a lot in the way the previously over controlling JC handled players. Do you consider him a player coach?

 

[HailUConn]

It matters. Just ask Kentucky fans…

 

[RuffRuff]

It matters. Just ask Kentucky fans…

They are thrilled with Pope, to the point they think the portal is now the way to go vs OADs. While simultaneously laughing butts off at what is going on in Fayetville.

 

[Gurleyman]

The Ollie title and subsequent downfall still makes no sense to me. He came in and we had this huge exodus of players - Drummond, Roscoe, Lamb, Alex, even Michael Bradley. We basically pulled in Phil Nolan and had to try to win without bigs and go entirely away from the Calhoun model - which had been rolling with Thabeet, Adrien and Sticks across the front line or sometimes Oriakhi and Okwandu playing together with Roscoe at the three.

So Ollie inherited two tiny guards and spent two years (with his staff) reconstructing everything around them and a small lineup and milking everything he could out of Phil Nolan and Tyler Olander. Fortunately he added Brimah, who we needed, but who was raw. Then he got into the NCAA Tournament - and surely if he could be exposed, the gauntlet of Wright, Hoiberg, Izzo and Donovan could have done it. But we were prepared for everything on that tourney run - when we were down 20-10 to Nova and Bazz went to the bench with two fouls, we put a 15-0 run on them. We were prepared for Iowa State and MSU and punched back when MSU went up. We didn’t look prepared when Florida went up 16-4 and were smothering us defensively, particularly getting the ball out of Bazz’s hands, we made adjustments and killed them the rest of the way. Florida went zone in the second half, and we were on it and lobbed them to death to put that game away. We were rolling Kentucky before foul trouble in the first half killed us and turned it into a game, but we played Giffey at center and found a way. Along the way, we exposed bigger guards and didn’t let better front lines expose us.

It was kind of a master class in coaching that year - accomplishing a lot with a little. And then, that was that. He won and it was like he didn’t want to do the job any more. The 2015 team stepped back - and that was fine. DD was an unexpected departure after winning a title and Purvis wasn’t quite ready. But that team two years later with DHam, Shonn Miller, Gibbs, Purvis and Birmah (with Adams off the bench) had a world of potential. And yet they might not have gotten in without the Adams 70 footer and they basically rolled over for Kansas.

 

[RuffRuff]

If you want to know how much coaching matters, take a look at Louisville. They’ve won more games in half a season under Kelsey than they won in two seasons under Payne.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The Ollie title and subsequent downfall still makes no sense to me. He came in and we had this huge exodus of players - Drummond, Roscoe, Lamb, Alex, even Michael Bradley. We basically pulled in Phil Nolan and had to try to win without bigs and go entirely away from the Calhoun model - which had been rolling with Thabeet, Adrien and Sticks across the front line or sometimes Oriakhi and Okwandu playing together with Roscoe at the three.

So Ollie inherited two tiny guards and spent two years (with his staff) reconstructing everything around them and a small lineup and milking everything he could out of Phil Nolan and Tyler Olander. Fortunately he added Brimah, who we needed, but who was raw. Then he got into the NCAA Tournament - and surely if he could be exposed, the gauntlet of Wright, Hoiberg, Izzo and Donovan could have done it. But we were prepared for everything on that tourney run - when we were down 20-10 to Nova and Bazz went to the bench with two fouls, we put a 15-0 run on them. We were prepared for Iowa State and MSU and punched back when MSU went up. We didn’t look prepared when Florida went up 16-4 and were smothering us defensively, particularly getting the ball out of Bazz’s hands, we made adjustments and killed them the rest of the way. Florida went zone in the second half, and we were on it and lobbed them to death to put that game away. We were rolling Kentucky before foul trouble in the first half killed us and turned it into a game, but we played Giffey at center and found a way. Along the way, we exposed bigger guards and didn’t let better front lines expose us.

It was kind of a master class in coaching that year - accomplishing a lot with a little. And then, that was that. He won and it was like he didn’t want to do the job any more. The 2015 team stepped back - and that was fine. DD was an unexpected departure after winning a title and Purvis wasn’t quite ready. But that team two years later with DHam, Shonn Miller, Gibbs, Purvis and Birmah (with Adams off the bench) had a world of potential. And yet they might not have gotten in without the Adams 70 footer and they basically rolled over for Kansas.

Thank you for this thoughtful, rational, and thorough post.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Here is a thought experiment. Take the 10 best Kentucky players from 2010 to 2020, and put them on one NBA team, and that team would win 70 games every season for the next 5 years. Calipari has likely coached more future NBA Hall of Famers during any 10 year stretch of his time at Kentucky than any other coach in college basketball history has during any 10 year stretch in their time coaching. The amount of supreme talent that he coached is staggering, and a lot of the Kentucky guys that never made it big in the NBA were really, really good too. And he has one title.

There is a reason no radio or cable talk show host or podcaster ever asks the question: "who is the worst college basketball coach to win a title". The answer is too obvious.