How important are sports to universities?

[upstater]

You may not believe the exposure is valuable but the free advertising does have value and its in the millions. That's just the reality.

I don't think it's anywhere near as valuable as people are assuming. When you spend, you expect a return in value. Otherwise you're making a bad investment. We started this discussion by my saying this whole run was good for FGCU (I'd never heard of it before) but that it wasn't huge for them. I also said some schools have surely benefited hugely. Like Boise and BCU and likely UConn. But for the vast majority, I don't think you get value back. This Miss Sports Biz person is glorifying her position at ESPN. When someone declares themselves a Biz Analyst and their credentials are questionable, you have to wonder.

 

[upstater]

I mean none of us here heard of this school before. Now we all know,they have a beach on campus. That has to be mean and be worth something. I wasn't suggesting they were going to be competing against Yale for students with the op.

Nor was I. The question is, how does this make the school any different from the other Florida schools like USF and UCF and FIU and FAU? Put it this way, if I were a student who only cared about sports and sun and fun, I think I'd rather go to FIU and FAU. And the next question is, why would schools want students like that? And, finally, we are talking about a low major here, low majors rarely make the same splash twice.

 

[huskymedic]

Can someone explain to what end this is valuable?

Assuming they go back to the beach and we never hear from them again...

What is the actual impact to the university?

More people apply? Well the sort of student who applies to a school because it has a beach is probably not going to improve your academics.

It's a public school - the fact that more people know you exist doesn't much change anything for them. Many public schools aren't even looking to really improve their academic standing anyway. States need universities to provide an education to a broad spectrum of students.

It would defeat the purpose for a school like say Central to be hell bent on improving their academics anyway. The state needs them to educate the type of students they currently enroll.

From the Kristi Dosh article above:

>>Economists and brothers Devin and Jaren Pope have studied the impact sports can have on university admissions. Their study titled “Understanding College Application Decisions: Why College Sports Success Matters,” concluded by saying, ““While a sports victory for a given school may not change the awareness of in-state students regarding its existence, the sports victory may present a significant shock in attention/awareness for out-of-state students.” This has certainly been true for VCU. In the fall of 2008, 92 percent of first-time freshmen were from the state of Virginia. However, by the fall of 2012 that number had decreased to 85 percent.

Why are out-of-state students so important? For the 2012-13 school year, out-of-state students at VCU paid $13,415 more than in-state students. The difference between having just 8 percent out-of-state students (as VCU did in 2008) and 15 percent (as VCU did in 2012) could amount to $3.4 million based on VCU’s fall 2012 enrollment and tuition rates.

FGCU has plenty of room to grow when it comes to attracting out-of-state students. In the fall of 2011, 91 percent of first-time freshmen at FGCU were from the state of Florida. Like VCU, there’s a sizeable difference between FGCU’s in-state and out-of-state tuition rates: $634.79 per credit hour, to be exact.<<

We can pick it apart for days and the impact other than increased apparel sales won't be known for a few years (and we will have all moved onto something else equally important) but past history has shown tangible benefits. Magnitude can be argued but there is clearly a positive impact.

 

[upstater]

From the Kristi Dosh article above:

>>Economists and brothers Devin and Jaren Pope have studied the impact sports can have on university admissions. Their study titled “Understanding College Application Decisions: Why College Sports Success Matters,” concluded by saying, ““While a sports victory for a given school may not change the awareness of in-state students regarding its existence, the sports victory may present a significant shock in attention/awareness for out-of-state students.” This has certainly been true for VCU. In the fall of 2008, 92 percent of first-time freshmen were from the state of Virginia. However, by the fall of 2012 that number had decreased to 85 percent.

Why are out-of-state students so important? For the 2012-13 school year, out-of-state students at VCU paid $13,415 more than in-state students. The difference between having just 8 percent out-of-state students (as VCU did in 2008) and 15 percent (as VCU did in 2012) could amount to $3.4 million based on VCU’s fall 2012 enrollment and tuition rates.

FGCU has plenty of room to grow when it comes to attracting out-of-state students. In the fall of 2011, 91 percent of first-time freshmen at FGCU were from the state of Florida. Like VCU, there’s a sizeable difference between FGCU’s in-state and out-of-state tuition rates: $634.79 per credit hour, to be exact.<<

We can pick it apart for days and the impact other than increased apparel sales won't be known for a few years (and we will have all moved onto something else equally important) but past history has shown tangible benefits. Magnitude can be argued but there is clearly a positive impact.

The same study she cites goes on to look at in depth studies by formidable people like the Orzag's and Zimbalist among others refuting all of this. It's linked in this very thread. You have to disambiguate admission applications from like schools with similar numbers to explain the difference. We're in an era where gov'ts are slashing school funding year by year and schools are responding by admitting more international students and out-of-staters. EVERYWHERE. The way to increase your numbers of out of staters is to DROP standards. Which is happening. So, call this picking apart, but I'd say it's people like Dosh who are doing the lazy cherry-picking. Tell her to read the Orszag report and then come back to me. I doubt she has.

 

[husky91]

Not as much when you're in a crap conference

 

[huskymedic]

"disambiguate admission applications"???

Okay.

 

[upstater]

"disambiguate admission applications"???

Okay.

It's a statistic term. In this case, it means how do you know the rise in applications is due to last year's sweet 16 appearance--especially in a time when everyone's out-of-state apps are rising?

 

[huskymedic]

It's a statistic term. In this case, it means how do you know the rise in applications is due to last year's sweet 16 appearance--especially in a time when everyone's out-of-state apps are rising?

Academics.... Yeesh.

Can we agree that any publicity is good publicity?

 

[upstater]

Academics.... Yeesh.

Can we agree that any publicity is good publicity?

Eh.

In FGCU's case, this week, yes. Just don't think it matters much.

 

[J187Money]

Yeah - like my son the high school junior baseball player. (btw - to my surprise, they have a top 30 baseball program). Mom shut that down.

darren rovell (@darrenrovell)
3/24/13, 11:14 PM
Florida Gulf Coast University Google Search Chart

View attachment 2581

She didn't want you going down there to visit him.

 

[huskymedic]

SportsBizMiss 1:45pm via Web
Final numbers from #FGCU's bookstore: $524,067 worth of apparel/hats sold in March. In March 2012 it was $26,708.

Quick $1/2mil...

 

[upstater]

SportsBizMiss 1:45pm via Web
Final numbers from #FGCU's bookstore: $524,067 worth of apparel/hats sold in March. In March 2012 it was $26,708.

Quick $1/2mil...

- Nike's take, - materials, right?

 

[huskymedic]

- Nike's take, - materials, right?

Cripes - I didn't say profit. Have no clue what margin is. Gawd. Let it go.

 

[upstater]

Cripes - I didn't say profit. Have no clue what margin is. Gawd. Let it go.

You're saying that to me?

 

[noeynox]

I mean regardless of the take/split, its gotta be better to sell 1/2 million of merchandise vs 26k in merchandise. Gotta figure that's just the start for them.

 

[huskymedic]

You're saying that to me?

People have been following the thread... relevant post. I find the dynamics interesting but not everything has to be dissected to the nth degree. . Got your points along the way.

 

[upstater]

I mean regardless of the take/split, its gotta be better to sell 1/2 million of merchandise vs 26k in merchandise. Gotta figure that's just the start for them.

As I said, it's good. I've been saying that from the beginning. I just think it's totally fleeting. I'd put money down that they are never to be heard from again (and by that I mean they don't win another NCAA game for the next 2 decades). -- I'm actually assuming that, say, Brown and Feiler are seniors, but if that team is back again, then you're right, they can continue to do damage.

 

[whaler11]

I mean regardless of the take/split, its gotta be better to sell 1/2 million of merchandise vs 26k in merchandise. Gotta figure that's just the start for them.

It's probably the end.

 

[Hoophound]

I think you underestimate the benefit of getting the local population to become fans. The area was in a mania over FGCU. People want them to succeed and since most of us are transplants, we find it easy to get on board with them versus UF/FSU. They are our team and it is very exciting. I haven't felt that kind of excitement since 1990.

 

[whaler11]

I think you underestimate the benefit of getting the local population to become fans. The area was in a mania over FGCU. People want them to succeed and since most of us are transplants, we find it easy to get on board with them versus UF/FSU. They are our team and it is very exciting. I haven't felt that kind of excitement since 1990.

And Enfield is already gone. That didn't take long.

 

[upstater]

Like I always say: it's better to make longterm assessments after you've been to your second rodeo.

Well, I never really say that but, what the was a Fugcoo anyway? Come on people!!!

 

[huskymedic]

Like I always say: it's better to make longterm assessments after you've been to your second rodeo.

Well, I never really say that but, what the was a Fugcoo anyway? Come on people!!!

Should be easier to find a new coach now after all that positive publicity
(Sorry - Couldn't help myself)

But hey - baseball team is still ranked in top 30!

 

[Husky25]

It's probably the end.

Andy Enfield is taking his talents and his wife to SoCal and the Pac12.

 

[Hoophound]

His body of work is rather small. He had some great athletes and a great point guard to feed them. The loss of Enfield would be nowhere as large as the loss of pg Brett Comer would be. I'm not sure Enfield has quite yet earned a job like USC. Oh, well.

 

[upstater]

His body of work is rather small. He had some great athletes and a great point guard to feed them. The loss of Enfield would be nowhere as large as the loss of pg Brett Comer would be. I'm not sure Enfield has quite yet earned a job like USC. Oh, well.

Are you serious? The loss of the coach isn't as serious as the loss of the PG? Then how do you expect a school to sustain competitiveness in college basketball if success depends on an underrecruited PG who will obviously leave the school soon?

 

[Hoophound]

Are you serious? The loss of the coach isn't as serious as the loss of the PG? Then how do you expect a school to sustain competitiveness in college basketball if success depends on an underrecruited PG who will obviously leave the school soon?

Yes, I'm serious. Having one great player can get you a long way in college basketball. Enfield was there two years and this season was nothing special until the conference tourney. If I were hiring for a big job, I'd consider his resume thin. Nonetheless, the coach has nothing to do with this debate.

Again, the debate we've been dragging out for days in regard to FGCU is whether or not their tourney run was huge for the university. You have now changed that debate to saying the run won't help sustain basketball success. That was never the argument until you arbitrarily switched it yesterday.

 

[upstater]

Yes, I'm serious. Having one great player can get you a long way in college basketball. Enfield was there two years and this season was nothing special until the conference tourney. If I were hiring for a big job, I'd consider his resume thin. Nonetheless, the coach has nothing to do with this debate.

Again, the debate we've been dragging out for days in regard to FGCU is whether or not their tourney run was huge for the university. You have now changed that debate to saying the run won't help sustain basketball success. That was never the argument until you arbitrarily switched it yesterday.

I never switched anything. Read back. You'll see where I wrote in my very first post on the subject that athletic success will be fleeting and that the university will be forgotten. This is what we are talking about, are we not? The tie between athletics and academics? I compared them to Cleveland State. I think with Enfield's departure that future is practically already here.