How good is STONE really?

[Yankees32123]

Because I too am a believer that we have a great shot at getting him and WILL sign him, but my question is, how good is he?

Maybe I'm gun shy from 2012, because Andre looked like an unstoppable force in his highlight reels, a FREAK who should have came in and dominated college basketball. I'm glad to see him play like a MONSTER in the NBA now but his UCONN season left much to be desired.

What kind of player do you expect STONE to be, what college big man does his game resemble? Is he more Andre or say Julius Randle? Maybe someone else? Plenty of hype with this kid, and it seems like he's a no brainer ONE and DONE, is it worth it?

Interested to hear everyone's insight on him, his game, and how good you think he will be in his first and only college year.

The thought of having him, 3rd year Brimah, Facey, Lubin, and Enoch is down right scary, very reminiscent of those 2004-2006 teams with Meka, Boone, Armstrong, and Adrien, difference compared to 06, we will have plenty of ball handlers to dominate the back court (Adams, Purvis, Cassell, Samuel)

See for yourself! He has all the tools. Amazing footwork, great size, strong hands, can block shots, etc. He's going to be a great NBA center.

 

[mauconnfan]

One of the biggest fallacies on the boneyard is that AD didn't have a great freshman season. He did.

I think the biggest fallacy isn't whether he was great or not but more whether he was disappointing. He wasn't disappointing unless you expected more form a kid who obviously needed more coaching than he had prior to enrolling at UConn. While I agree with those who don't think he was a disappointment I will not a agree he was "great." He did some great things and 10 and 7 is a wonderful job by any freshman big man at a demanding program. But great is giving him a little more than his impact deserved I would say. On the other hand the veterans of the club made his entire freshman year very difficult to survive. Not on him at all.........

 

[jazyj]

good

 

[champs99and04]

I don't think you can just look at the numbers and call Drummond's freshman season great. Sure, he was great for what you'd normally expect from a freshman, but if you're grading him on a curve, it's tough to say he exceeded expectations. The numbers look good, but he anchored a mediocre defense, couldn't create any offense, and struggled defending the perimeter. Again, he did plenty to offset that, but I would reserve words like great for J-Lamb, MKG, Noel type freshman years. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I do remember there being concerns about effort when Drummond was in high school. Biggest concern for him coming in was: how hard would he try?

Nobody's mentioned anything like that with Stone afaik

 

[CTBasketball]

See for yourself! He has all the tools. Amazing footwork, great size, strong hands, can block shots, etc. He's going to be a great NBA center.

The title of this video is "Diamond Stone has Phenominal Footwork!" - sounds like an adult film title.

I digress, the fact that his family wants to move with him could play against us also...

 

[intlzncster]

Drummond had a great freshman year. Maybe not compared to our expectations, or to Anthony Davis, but if we could get that kind of production out of Stone, I'd be psyched. (Except for FTs. I'd expect better than 30% from the line...)

The gap between Andre's expected output and his actual production was way down the list of reasons why the team underachieved that season, IMO.

(To answer your question, I don't know how good he is.)

Andre's expected output was 35/20/10. Irrationally so. But it is what it is.

 

[intlzncster]

Good article on Stone from July by Luke Winn: http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2014/07/17/diamond-stone-post-uconn-kentucky

"He's probably the best high-school post scorer we've seen since DeMarcus Cousins," said Evan Daniels of Scout.com, which has Stone ranked as the No. 1 overall player in the 2015 class. "He's just polished on the offensive end. He's not physically dominant yet, but he has terrific hands, great touch, he can hit hooks over both shoulders, he has counter moves, and he can step out and hit jump shots."

Also, in that article, Diamond says his parents are going to move with him to whichever school he ends up at, so I think that works against Wisconsin. Can't necessarily sell the close to home aspect when your family is going to move with you.

Or it works FOR Wisconsin, in that, there's no need to move (uproot the family)) at all. Who knows?

 

[intlzncster]

Stone seems to be infinitely more talented; in terms of pure basketball talent, than Andre. The difference is that Drummond may be the best athlete at his size ever. The college game was never going to treat AD very well as his game is transition and playing the pick and roll game. Stone will be a big time college player.

I don't know, a few years at college, and I think Drummond and the rest of the team could figure it out. I'm guessing he would have crushed it.

 

[intlzncster]

Josh Boone's mom moved down the street from me with his aunt when he came here. I actually went down to hang out the night he was drafted. It was pretty crazy.

Re: Drummond, he should have been better, just looking at how good he was the next year. He had one of the very best rookie seasons (efficiency-wise) by a center ever, and every other center who was comparable as a rookie, and I mean every single one, had been a no-doubt superstar in college the year before. By PER, he was better than Ewing, Olajuwon, Sampson, Walton, Parish, Camby, etc.

That's because the people getting the ball to him were a lot better. And the players understood offensive/defensive sets a lot better. Centers, more than any other position on the floor, are at the mercy of the other players (talents) they play with.

 

[mauconnfan]

Well this was about Diamond Stone not Andre so I will throw my 20 cents out on Mr Stone while comparing them. It seems like Mr Stone knows what he's going to be and where his bread is buttered. He does not have the crazy athleticism of Andre so while he can step out and drain 12-15 footers on occasion, he also knew with his body and game he would be a low block player. So he seems to have honed his footwork, drop steps and strength down low and ability to score. What's cool about his game is while he is obviously really really good, he isn't going to be a definite 1 and done because he isn't the "athletic" guy they cream over as NBA scouts. There's a chance he's at UConn (okay, or Madison) for 2 years.

In Andre's defense the kid had guard skills and athleticism and his coaches prior to UConn let him do what he wanted to do and why not? JC let him run a little more outside his strength too because he was special but it did;t help him fundamentally when he arrived.

Oh yeah the answer to the question, Stone is really really good and we need him here!!

 

[Tenspro2002]

Andre's expected output was 35/20/10. Irrationally so. But it is what it is.

It wasn't about the numbers. It was about looking like he'd never played organized basketball before. Little sense of defensive positioning. No back to the basket moves. Half of his points came on alley-oop lobs because he could out-jump everyone else at his height.

For a freshman center, his season was pretty good. For the #2 high school prospect and guaranteed lotto-pick whom this fan base had been dreaming about for years, his season was disappointing.

The real source of that disappointment was his high school "coaches" who didn't prepare him at all for this level.

Edit: I want to add that my impression of Stone is that he's much more skilled as a basketball player and so in that sense should be a lot less frustrating than Drummond was. Less flash, but more consistent production. Sullinger (maybe a little bigger) might not be a bad comp.

 

[CallMeBruce]

If Drummond didn't know how to play basketball when he was at UConn, how was a dominant NBA player by the next season?

 

[patrick]

How good is Stone?

His high school bus doesn't pick him up. He picks up the bus.

He once scored a basket while just thinking about it.

He's the kind of player who, when he says a certain college is kind of cool, that coach creams his pants.

Proms are thrown for him, not the class.

Where ever he goes he is always on center court.

When he goes to church late the minister pauses and apologizes for starting early.

He is the most interesting player in the world.

This is GREAT!

 

[exray2345]

Reminds me of a quicker version of Elton Brand which would be a great college player/1st team all american, just my humble opinion

 

[boog204]

If Drummond didn't know how to play basketball when he was at UConn, how was a dominant NBA player by the next season?

It's mostly just freakish athleticism and that really plays more to the NBA game. He's really only started to show "true" post moves this year. And even then they are a little fugly.



This is a recent preseason game. I counted three dunks, an athletic layup, 2 really nice jump hooks, and then three of the ugliest, left handed alex oriahki throw the ball towards the hoop and pray they go in jump hooks i've ever seen. They all went in though. Even his career high scoring game last year was predominately all layups and dunks (and free throws after they starting intentionally fouling him). Mostly athleticism (and the ability to finish) against a very unathletic 76er team.

I still feel like his ceiling is Orlando Magic Dwight Howard. Obviously that is not a bad thing but like Howard the talk is going to be of whether he can develop any post skills to go along with the unbelievable athleticism. Howard pretty much stalled in that regard.

 

[Walker11]

I still feel like his ceiling is Orlando Magic Dwight Howard. Obviously that is not a bad thing but like Howard the talk is going to be of whether he can develop any post skills to go along with the unbelievable athleticism. Howard pretty much stalled in that regard.

Dwight was a consensus top 3 player in the league his last few years in Orlando. This is extremely high praise. I think Andre has better hands and much more fluidity but Dwight has a big edge on D and defensive rebounding at this stage. Still, sky is the limit.

 

[nomar]

I don't think you can just look at the numbers and call Drummond's freshman season great. Sure, he was great for what you'd normally expect from a freshman, but if you're grading him on a curve, it's tough to say he exceeded expectations. The numbers look good, but he anchored a mediocre defense, couldn't create any offense, and struggled defending the perimeter. Again, he did plenty to offset that, but I would reserve words like great for J-Lamb, MKG, Noel type freshman years. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics.

I think you are. But that's half of what arguing on the internet is all about!

Noel averaged 10.5, 9.5, 4.4 in 32 mpg. Shot 59%.
Dre averaged 10.0, 7.6, 2.7 in 28 mpg. Shot 54%.

Hard to say one of those is a great line and the other isn't. One's better but they're comparable. If Dre put up Noel's line, he would have gone #2.

MKG couldn't shoot. He averaged 11.9 ppg (and 7.4 rpg) in 31 mpg but his offensive game was all slashing. He was drafted on raw athleticism as much as if not more than Drummond was.

Lamb finished strong but struggled throughout his freshman season. He averaged 11.1 ppg and 4.5 rpg in 28 mpg. (He did shoot very well: 57% TS.)

Drummond was inconsistent on a game-to-game basis but he was always a presence defensively and on the boards.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Dwight was a consensus top 3 player in the league his last few years in Orlando. This is extremely high praise. I think Andre has better hands and much more fluidity but Dwight has a big edge on D and defensive rebounding at this stage. Still, sky is the limit.

Yeah, Dwight from 2007 to 2010 or so may have been the second best player in the league.

 

[boog204]

Dwight was a consensus top 3 player in the league his last few years in Orlando. This is extremely high praise. I think Andre has better hands and much more fluidity but Dwight has a big edge on D and defensive rebounding at this stage. Still, sky is the limit.

Exactly... That's the ceiling. But despite Dwight being there briefly, in some ways I think he's been a disappointment because he has kind of regressed from those brief heights. I think Andre can get there if he specifically works on his post game. You can only go so far being a pick and roll dunker and offensive rebound put back guy.

 

[aceboon]

Exactly... That's the ceiling. But despite Dwight being there briefly, in some ways I think he's been a disappointment because he has kind of regressed from those brief heights. I think Andre can get there if he specifically works on his post game. You can only go so far being a pick and roll dunker and offensive rebound put back guy.

Dwight's back injury has alot to do with that, there's been a noticeable dip since the surgery. He's still arguably the best C in the game, but as you said no longer in that top 3 like he was before.

 

[champs99and04]

I think you are. But that's half of what arguing on the internet is all about!

Noel averaged 10.5, 9.5, 4.4 in 32 mpg. Shot 59%.
Dre averaged 10.0, 7.6, 2.7 in 28 mpg. Shot 54%.

Hard to say one of those is a great line and the other isn't. One's better but they're comparable. If Dre put up Noel's line, he would have gone #2.

MKG couldn't shoot. He averaged 11.9 ppg (and 7.4 rpg) in 31 mpg but his offensive game was all slashing. He was drafted on raw athleticism as much as if not more than Drummond was.

Lamb finished strong but struggled throughout his freshman season. He averaged 11.1 ppg and 4.5 rpg in 28 mpg. (He did shoot very well: 57% TS.)

Drummond was inconsistent on a game-to-game basis but he was always a presence defensively and on the boards.

I think Noel and MKG were both significantly better college players than Drummond. Maybe there are certain statistics that are more favorable to 'Dre, but in my opinion, Noel was among the best players in the country before he was injured and almost single-handedly kept that Kentucky team above water. Sans Anthony Davis, I haven't seen a big man in college basketball over the last few years as rangy, disruptive, and versatile as Noel was. The 4.4 blocks per game is nothing to sneeze at in its own right - which is really where he distinguished himself from Drummond, IMO - but I thought he was more adept moving laterally than Drummond. To me, Drummond an Noel were fairly similar offensively, and you could probably argue that Drummond was even better. But I think Noel was better defensively by a large margin.

MKG is basically Nerlens Noel reincarnated as a small forward. You're right - he had plenty of limitations offensively, especially in the half-court, but he was so devastating in transition and as an off-ball cutter that he brought a lot to the table. He was a phenomenal defender, and, much like Noel, was capable of defending three, four positions.

You may have a case with Lamb, and I suppose my assessment on him was more subjective in that I weighted March more heavily than I did other months. November through February, I agree Drummond was as good or better.

For the record, I'm a huge Drummond fan, and much of the grief he took here was unwarranted. His final stat line was about right what I expected it to be. I don't think I'm being too harsh, though, in thinking he merely met expectations rather than exceeded them.

 

[aceboon]

I think you are. But that's half of what arguing on the internet is all about!

Noel averaged 10.5, 9.5, 4.4 in 32 mpg. Shot 59%.
Dre averaged 10.0, 7.6, 2.7 in 28 mpg. Shot 54%.

Hard to say one of those is a great line and the other isn't. One's better but they're comparable. If Dre put up Noel's line, he would have gone #2.

MKG couldn't shoot. He averaged 11.9 ppg (and 7.4 rpg) in 31 mpg but his offensive game was all slashing. He was drafted on raw athleticism as much as if not more than Drummond was.

Lamb finished strong but struggled throughout his freshman season. He averaged 11.1 ppg and 4.5 rpg in 28 mpg. (He did shoot very well: 57% TS.)

Drummond was inconsistent on a game-to-game basis but he was always a presence defensively and on the boards.

Not sure if I'm alone on this but I never thought AD was anything special defensively or on the boards his freshman year. Not that he's solely responsible for the poor team defense because Bazz and Lamb were not good defenders at all that year, but I don't really remember AD being a guy that cleaned up their mistakes in the paint, really he still has major issues in defending the rim and the paint in the NBA now. Also, while I don't think he was lazy, right off the bat for the Pistons I saw AD grabbing up more rebounds out of his area than I saw at UConn, I know the numbers were good his first year but it seemed like he kicked it up a couple of levels in the way that he attacked rebounding once he hit the league.

 

[uconn34]

Good enough that Ollie is recruiting him hard. I have a tendency to think well of Ollie, person and coach!

 

[nomar]

Not sure if I'm alone on this but I never thought AD was anything special defensively or on the boards his freshman year. Not that he's solely responsible for the poor team defense because Bazz and Lamb were not good defenders at all that year, but I don't really remember AD being a guy that cleaned up their mistakes in the paint, really he still has major issues in defending the rim and the paint in the NBA now. Also, while I don't think he was lazy, right off the bat for the Pistons I saw AD grabbing up more rebounds out of his area than I saw at UConn, I know the numbers were good his first year but it seemed like he kicked it up a couple of levels in the way that he attacked rebounding once he hit the league.

We probably agree more than we disagree. All I said was that he was a presence. Considering how good he is now, 7.6 rpg and 2.7 bpg in 28 mpg isn't exactly mindblowing. But it's been a while since we've had a center who could stay on the court long enough and had the talent to put up that kind of production.

Also, I don't know if the numbers back this up, but that mask really seemed to limit his aggressiveness.