How do you work from home?

[temery]

Just curious. I spoke with a neighbor yesterday and he said his employer installed software that tracks mouse clicks. If he doesn't click the mouse at least every four minutes, he'll get a call or email.

Nothing about productivity, just mouse clicks.

 

[JMick]

No. Just that they won’t have picked up as much mentorship as workers who work together in an office, and that as a group they therefore will not be as good at running organizations.

Most companies don't even hire management positions from within anymore so pretty much everyone is just learning leadership on the job. It's rare that anyone goes out of their way to mentor people or set them up for promotions in most lines of work.

 

[B1GEast]

Used to be in 5 days a week 40 hours. Now post COVID we're supposed to being 3 days a week, but my boss is in Chicago. And i'm the only director in NY. I frequently leave @ 1:00-3:00, log back in @ home, take a nap. So long as we swipe our badge it counts as a day in. They hired this loser HR team to monitor eveyrone being in 3 days a week and they were a bunch of incompetent dweebs. They once wrote me up for coming in 2 days a week when I had a doctors note post knee surgery. Very happy they will eventually be jobless soon.

I continue to get great reviews / bonuses - and max my 401k. Reckon i'll do this until they force me out or I retire early. If hybrid work schedules have taught me anything it's how much more i want to do what I REALLY enjoy and spend time with my family.

The three office day hybrid seems to be the trend if you live within a certain radius of an office. I know several other companies that do this. What varies is the compliance to the three day. Some people log out after lunch and finish the work day at home. Some people also will work from home if they have a family issue, kids, dr's appointment, etc. It's the same policy enforced differently depending on the company.

 

[B1GEast]

Most companies don't even hire management positions from within anymore so pretty much everyone is just learning leadership on the job. It's rare that anyone goes out of their way to mentor people or set them up for promotions in most lines of work.

One of the companies I worked for cleaned house at the leadership level and several others jumped ship. Most of the new managers had very little experience in the role. Their credentials were great, but they had a steep learning curve and leaned on their subordinates to understand the job.

It was an odd experience. On paper the new managers looked great, in action they were silent and non visible. We'd have department team meetings you'd only hear the managers that were always around speak.

I've been fortunate to have mentoring relationships at a few of the companies I've worked for and it's served me to survive some of the poor companies I've unfortunately had to deal with.

I try to pass that knowledge on to younger employees whenever I get the opportunity. If you stick around long enough to understand why they hired you, that's half the battle. Your role is often bigger than your title.

 

[navery12]

The answer is there is zero chance people who were just starting their careers when Covid and telecommuting hit will be mentored as much as prior generations, and thus will be as good as senior leaders in 30 years as prior generations. If you don’t need leaders, and everyone doing their job is enough in a business, great, but most companies need not just workers but leaders. Law firms certainly do.

Counterpoint, in 30 years those people will be leading teams of people who all they know is the hybrid/WFH model and they'll still be great leaders and mentors still

 

[businesslawyer]

Counterpoint, in 30 years those people will be leading teams of people who all they know is the hybrid/WFH model and they'll still be great leaders and mentors still

It really is simple math — if you don’t maximize your exposure to more senior leaders who you learn from, you won’t have all the tools you otherwise would have.

Look, my commute is roughly an hour and a half round trip. Do I like saving that amount of time? Of course I do. But do I really think that only coming in half the time younger people are learning from me the full amount they would be if they were all in the office? Of course they’re not.

I’m not an old person howling into the wind. I recognize various benefits from people working from home and am not wasting time fighting the inevitable. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be pointing out the clear negative consequences as well.

 

[uconnfan68]

Funny usually people have teams so you can see when someone is online. Dated someone who’s mom had a mouse that spun automatically to keep her laptop active as she did stuff around the house/ran errands.

Your neighbor is going to have to find something for mouse clicks.

Yup, there are apps for that.

 

[navery12]

It really is simple math — if you don’t maximize your exposure to more senior leaders who you learn from, you won’t have all the tools you otherwise would have.

Look, my commute is roughly an hour and a half round trip. Do I like saving that amount of time? Of course I do. But do I really think that only coming in half the time younger people are learning from me the full amount they would be if they were all in the office? Of course they’re not.

I’m not an old person howling into the wind. I recognize various benefits from people working from home and am not wasting time fighting the inevitable. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be pointing out the clear negative consequences as well.

And I'm saying there's plenty of opportunity to learn while working from home. That's just an incredibly outdated mindset. The world is changing and it's time to accept that

 

[Icehawk]

Yup, there are apps for that.

And you don’t want to get caught running one. We are fully aware of all software on your device (and things like USB jigglers too). A larger org will just block all that stuff anyways.

I think there can be value “in-person” but it depends on a lot of factors how valuable that really is. Hard to have informal conversations with random coworkers if you are not physically together, IMO coming in once every other week would provide enough of that for MY job. Currently we are told to come in 2x a week by our direct mgmt but the corporate directive is 3x. They checking badging but… we only swipe in.

 

[businesslawyer]

And I'm saying there's plenty of opportunity to learn while working from home. That's just an incredibly outdated mindset. The world is changing and it's time to accept that

I fully agree and have already said I agree with your first and third sentences. As for the second one, I recognize that in ‘Merica 2024 telling people they can’t have their cake and eat it too is a waste of time. But that doesn’t change reality.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Most companies don't even hire management positions from within anymore so pretty much everyone is just learning leadership on the job. It's rare that anyone goes out of their way to mentor people or set them up for promotions in most lines of work.

That sounds industry specific.

Anything to back it up?

 

[huskymedic]

Assisted access if needed <<

 

[HuskyHawk]

It really is simple math — if you don’t maximize your exposure to more senior leaders who you learn from, you won’t have all the tools you otherwise would have.

Look, my commute is roughly an hour and a half round trip. Do I like saving that amount of time? Of course I do. But do I really think that only coming in half the time younger people are learning from me the full amount they would be if they were all in the office? Of course they’re not.

I’m not an old person howling into the wind. I recognize various benefits from people working from home and am not wasting time fighting the inevitable. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be pointing out the clear negative consequences as well.

This is why my company (a very big one) went back to 3 days a week in the office. There were concerned about development of younger employees. But ultimately it has failed, at least in the legal department. I opted for full remote, as did many others. There just wasn't enough incentive to come in, and as an older (55+) worker I just don't want to do it anymore. I don't even want to live in a metro where we have offices anymore. In other groups it is working a little better, but still not like before.

My daughter is a senior in college, and I do worry about the work experience of younger people now, it's not the same. I recall a blend of learning from experienced people, making friends with people roughly my age and teaching/mentoring younger people. I had a tendency towards Socratic method as a manager. Young people will benefit from the office environment of the past, but I don't know if they will get it.

As for @temery's question, I'm sitting here before my day officially begins, but I have already gotten some work done as well. Being home makes it easier to start early or accept a later meeting/call. Also allows me to eat lunch outside on my deck and maybe go for a walk around 4:00. No click monitoring SW here, I don't know how that would work, you're not typing while on video calls.

 

[Chin Diesel]

It really is simple math — if you don’t maximize your exposure to more senior leaders who you learn from, you won’t have all the tools you otherwise would have.

Look, my commute is roughly an hour and a half round trip. Do I like saving that amount of time? Of course I do. But do I really think that only coming in half the time younger people are learning from me the full amount they would be if they were all in the office? Of course they’re not.

I’m not an old person howling into the wind. I recognize various benefits from people working from home and am not wasting time fighting the inevitable. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be pointing out the clear negative consequences as well.

This is why my company (a very big one) went back to 3 days a week in the office. There were concerned about development of younger employees. But ultimately it has failed, at least in the legal department. I opted for full remote, as did many others. There just wasn't enough incentive to come in, and as an older (55+) worker I just don't want to do it anymore. I don't even want to live in a metro where we have offices anymore. In other groups it is working a little better, but still not like before.

My daughter is a senior in college, and I do worry about the work experience of younger people now, it's not the same. I recall a blend of learning from experienced people, making friends with people roughly my age and teaching/mentoring younger people. I had a tendency towards Socratic method as a manager. Young people will benefit from the office environment of the past, but I don't know if they will get it.

As for @temery's question, I'm sitting here before my day officially begins, but I have already gotten some work done as well. Being home makes it easier to start early or accept a later meeting/call. Also allows me to eat lunch outside on my deck and maybe go for a walk around 4:00. No click monitoring SW here, I don't know how that would work, you're not typing while on video calls.

The team I was part of when Covid hit was split between Texas and Florida but everyone had worked with at least one other person on the team before we got sent home. We had two people we hired during Covid, and while we were mostly remote, we did have some face to face (even if it was breakfast a restaurant). By October 2020 we were freed up to travel to clients and support customers on site. Our new guys struggled since they hadn't had as much experience working with customers yet and hadn't fine tuned their skills needed. Trying to integrate both of them sucked. We also noticed many of our customers were jacked up because their teams weren't meeting and their new hires were integrated well in to their teams.

Long story short and master of the obvious: If you already have a team which is established and has norms, it will have a better chance of succeeding than teams which are put together remotely and don't meet in person.

 

[temery]

It really is simple math — if you don’t maximize your exposure to more senior leaders who you learn from, you won’t have all the tools you otherwise would have.

Look, my commute is roughly an hour and a half round trip. Do I like saving that amount of time? Of course I do. But do I really think that only coming in half the time younger people are learning from me the full amount they would be if they were all in the office? Of course they’re not.

I’m not an old person howling into the wind. I recognize various benefits from people working from home and am not wasting time fighting the inevitable. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be pointing out the clear negative consequences as well.

Funny thing is during Covid the experienced teachers needed the young teachers to help them with the technology needed for remote learning.

A year before I retired I applied for an open technology position: Teach students three classes/day, help teachers the rest of the day.

They hired a lady who quit by the end of the year. Had the librarian cover for a while, then hired a guy who was actually a good teacher, but he showed a class a couple minutes of an adult video.

Apparently everyone in the video was wearing body paint, but he didn't notice until a student asked why the lead character was called "tripod." He didn't know, so they watched a couple more minutes of the video until they danced in the rain and the paint washed off.

Back on topic - Covid hit and they offered me the job if I'd come back. They're still waiting for my answer.

TL;dr Asking experienced teachers to embrace distance learning with or without help is far less realistic than expecting middle school students to tune out when watching a tiktoc video about a man called "tripod."

 

[Chin Diesel]

Funny thing is during Covid the experienced teachers needed the young teachers to help them with the technology needed for remote learning.

A year before I retired I applied for an open technology position: Teach students three classes/day, help teachers the rest of the day.

They hired a lady who quit by the end of the year. Had the librarian cover for a while, then hired a guy who was actually a good teacher, but he showed a class a couple minutes of an adult video.

Apparently everyone in the video was wearing body paint, but he didn't notice until a student asked why the lead character was called "tripod." He didn't know, so they watched a couple more minutes of the video until they danced in the rain and the paint washed off.

Back on topic - Covid hit and they offered me the job if I'd come back. They're still waiting for my answer.

TL;dr Asking experienced teachers to embrace distance learning with or without help is far less realistic than expecting middle school students to tune out when watching a tiktoc video about a man called "tripod."

Seems about right. There was a bunch of scrambling that hit schools when Covid hit. Decisions had to be made quickly and were done haphazardly rather than stategically. Post-Covid smart organizations took their lessons learned but started building distance learning or remote learning classes from scratch. Crappy ones just kept their Flex Tape slapped on and carried on about their business.

I'm taking two classes for my master's this summer. One is for Distance Learning Policy the other is Distance Learning Implementation.
The 8th edition of "Teaching and Learning At A Distance: Foundations of Distance Education" is a great book. Plenty of learning theory and plenty of real life examples.

 

[B1GEast]

 

[JMick]

Another good reason to spend your work time browsing the boneyard on your company issued device.

Any manager that cares about how many key strokes you make vs how productive you are is a moron. Years ago I got my work day down to three hours like clockwork before I was promoted. They had to hire two people to replace me. If I was wfh and got monitored by inputs would I have been fired instead of promoted?

Nowadays I implement policies and procedures to increase workplace efficiency. I've saved every department tons of time that would have been otherwise lost if they didn't recognize the value of outputs instead of inputs.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Another good reason to spend your work time browsing the boneyard on your company issued device.

Any manager that cares about how many key strokes you make vs how productive you are is a moron. Years ago I got my work day down to three hours like clockwork before I was promoted. They had to hire two people to replace me. If I was wfh and got monitored by inputs would I have been fired instead of promoted?

Nowadays I implement policies and procedures to increase workplace efficiency. I've saved every department tons of time that would have been otherwise lost if they didn't recognize the value of outputs instead of inputs.

It's really absurd, depending on what you do. Some of my time involves actual thinking and reading of documents. Some of it involves discussing things with colleagues or negotiating with customers/partners, problem solving etc. The value is efficiency, I know what I'm doing, I can steer things in the right direction. If I'm clicking or typing, it's often less valuable time.

If a CEO spends an hour in a nice chair, eyes closed, thinking about the strategic direction of his or her industry and how to best position the company, that's work. That's probably really high value work.

 

[CL82]

If a CEO spends an hour in a nice chair, eyes closed, thinking about the strategic direction of his or her industry and how to best position the company, that's work. That's probably really high value work.

Employee: Mr. Hawk? Mr. Hawk?!

HuskyHawk: Wuh, wuh, what?

Employee: I'm sorry to wake you, sir, But you're 2:30 is here.

HuskyHawk: Not a problem, but I wasn't asleep. I was thinking about the strategic direction of the industry and how to best position the company.

Employee: Uh, huh. Well, you might just want to clean up that pool of "strategic direction" that dribbled out of your mouth onto the desk before your meeting.

 

[Martin]

Today at 4 I had to run out to get dogfood and realized I was in my work clothes. Button down shirt, basketball shorts and sandals. Business on the top casual on the bottom. Lolol. My kids are like, you went out like that? I do review, compliance like work. Very siloed. No big need for an office. It made training more challenging but I accept that for getting 2 hours more sleep and we are always caught up on laundry I get lunch with my daughters frequently and spend time with my dogs.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Today at 4 I had to run out to get dogfood and realized I was in my work clothes. Button down shirt, basketball shorts and sandals. Business on the top casual on the bottom. Lolol. My kids are like, you went out like that? I do review, compliance like work. Very siloed. No big need for an office. It made training more challenging but I accept that for getting 2 hours more sleep and we are always caught up on laundry I get lunch with my daughters frequently and spend time with my dogs.

The number of times I've gone on a grocery run or ran errands midday and came back to hear Mrs. Diesel say "You went out in public like that?" is a pretty high count.

 

[temery]

enough to rack up 2 million miles on AA.

Bill Wilson approves.

 

[temery]

Today at 4 I had to run out to get dogfood and realized I was in my work clothes. Button down shirt, basketball shorts and sandals. Business on the top casual on the bottom. Lolol. My kids are like, you went out like that? I do review, compliance like work. Very siloed. No big need for an office. It made training more challenging but I accept that for getting 2 hours more sleep and we are always caught up on laundry I get lunch with my daughters frequently and spend time with my dogs.

During Covid my school instituted a dress code for students during zoom classes. A few parents made it a point to bring this up at a school committee meeting, saying "you can't tell my child what s/he can wear.

"Did you read the actual dress code policy?"

"No. Doesn't matter. You can't tell my kid what s/he must wear"

"Sir, the dress code policy is that all students must be dressed. We've had shirtless boys, and girls still wearing their bikinis after a quick dip in the pool at lunch."

"Oh."

 

[Chin Diesel]

Today at 4 I had to run out to get dogfood and realized I was in my work clothes. Button down shirt, basketball shorts and sandals. Business on the top casual on the bottom. Lolol. My kids are like, you went out like that? I do review, compliance like work. Very siloed. No big need for an office. It made training more challenging but I accept that for getting 2 hours more sleep and we are always caught up on laundry I get lunch with my daughters frequently and spend time with my dogs.

 

[Hunt for 7]

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Covid changed everything…..