How do you call that Technical?

[Dove]

That technical on Drummond is in the same territory as the Donny Marshall "sarcastic clapping" technical foul.

Nah, Donny was a jerk there. Drummond simply gave the ball to a ref that couldn't catch the ball.

 

[freescooter]

It was a blown call. It happens. the Technical was a bad call but the ref was looking away and got hit with the ball and reacted. Don't know that it changed the game though...we were totally incapable of stopping them by that point. And that was the real problem. We had decided we needed to shoot 3s rahter than feed Drummond and Oriaki down low where they were absolutley dominating. I can't remember Drummond getting the ball inside in the final 10 minutes.

 

[dsturdy5]

Can you please, in either the NFHS or NCAA rules, show me where it says that a foul can occur without contact? Also, I found this in the NCAA book about the elbowing rule (10.13 and 10.14)

Art. 13. Illegal contact caused by the swinging of the elbow(s) that:
a. Results from total body movement is a common or flagrant 1 personal foul
b. Is excessive per Rule 4-36.7 is a flagrant 2 foul.
c. Occurs above the shoulders of an opponent is a flagrant 1 or flagrant 2
personal foul.
d. Occurs below the shoulders of an opponent is a common, flagrant 1 or
flagrant 2 personal foul.
Art. 14. Illegal contact with an elbow that does not involve the swinging of the
elbow shall be considered a foul unless the contact is incidental per Rule 4-40.

Notice the word "contact" in there. If there is no contact, it is a violation as indicated below:

Rule 4-36.7
Art. 7. The following shall be considered excessive swinging:
a. When arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung about while using the shoulders as
pivots, and the speed of the extended arm(s) and elbow(s) exceeds that of
the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot; or
b. When the speed and vigor with which the arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung
is such that injury could result if another player were contacted.

"COULD result in injury IF another player WERE contacted." IE, no contact happened, it is a violation.

Just to be certain, I'll check in with my board's rules interpreter tonight, I should see him.

 

[UConnLen]

That technical on Drummond is in the same territory as the Donny Marshall "sarcastic clapping" technical foul.

Was there at PCC that night, and that was really bad. Only difference was Ollie dribbling the length of court and laying it in for a W at buzzer!

 

[dsturdy5]

This is what you wrote:

"Any foul involving excessive swinging of the arm(s) and elbow(s) (Rule 4-36.7), either above or below the shoulders during a live ball, or that otherwise meets the requirements of Rule 4-29.2.c and 4-29.3.f.1 shall be penalized by a flagrant personal foul."

It says "foul". I showed you where the rulebook mentions a foul must include contact. For what it's worth I spoke to an NCAA official last night who is also our board's rules interpreter and he agreed with my previous post.

 

[dsturdy5]

Rule 4-36.7 (rule four is where all definitions are listed) explain what "excessive swinging of the elbows" is. The lack of contact takes it from a foul to a violation, Rule 9, as mentioned below:

Section 13. Elbow(s)
Art. 1. A player shall not excessively swing his or her arm(s) or elbow(s), even
without contacting an opponent.
Art. 2. A player may extend arm(s) or elbow(s) to hold the ball under the chin or
against the body.
Art. 3. Action of arm(s) and elbow(s) resulting from total body movement as
in pivoting or movement of the ball incidental to feinting with it, releasing it,
or moving it to prevent a held ball or loss of control shall not be considered
excessive.

Rule 10 is where the fouls are listed. In rule 10.13-10.14 (prior post) you can see about "contact" made from swinging of the elbows. The contact makes it a foul, not a violation.