Holly Warlick Contract Extension [merged thread]

[MainefanSC]

UT filed NCAA complaint alleging UConn violations

May the pill be more bitter and the suffering be longer.

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more to say.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

DeShields has been having a successful rookie campaign and Tennessee underachieved during her years there as well. That's a case where Holly clearly had a player with WNBA talent.

For that matter, Aja Wilson has been stupendous in her rookie season, far exceeding her performance in college. She was never fully integrated into South Carolina's offense, as she has been in the pros.

Good to see DeShields perform better in the pros. Perhaps maturity and the knowledge that she was really on probation due to her frequent blow-ups in college have led to that better output.

 

[bballnut90]

For that matter, Aja Wilson has been stupendous in her rookie season, far exceeding her performance in college. She was never fully integrated into South Carolina's offense, as she has been in the pros.

Good to see DeShields perform better in the pros. Perhaps maturity and the knowledge that she was really on probation due to her frequent blow-ups in college have led to that better output.

Not to get off topic..but Wilson now has teammates who can hit open shots which creates much better spacing for her to operate inside or from the high post. She didn’t have that her last year at SC, she was essentially the only strong offensive threat on the roster. In the pros she’s been very good, but she’s also had a green light unlike any rookie I’ve seen before. She’s had more than her share of bad shooting nights (12 games where she’s shot between 20-38%) and she always takes 10+ shots per game. Vegas needs her to be effective so I don’t see any problem with that, but I don’t see her as being a whole lot more integrated as a pro as much as she has better teammates and has landed on a team that desperately needed size and production from the post.

And Deshields never had blowups, she always kept her cool. She just never seemed all that passionate on the court and was rarely in sync with teammates. Never saw a shot she disliked and knew she could play Diamond ball since she was so talented and Holly never kept her in line. The pros she’s played with much more control and hasn’t forced the issue, in part because she probably knows she can’t or she’ll be benched in favor of another good player. She knew she wasn’t ever going to be benched at Tennessee.

 

[EricLA]

What??? I don't feel bad for them at all - they deserve it. For all I care the mediocrity can continue into eternity. Holly's extension is a good head start on that - self-inflicted mediocrity.

In 2022, when this latest contract extension expires and the Lady Vols again crash out of the NCAA tourney in round 2 (if they even get in), that year's crop of incoming high school recruits will have been 3 years old the last time TN won a national championship. How long has it been since Tennessee had a bona fide All American? This is just a place where McDonald's AA's go to regress into averageness. The Lady Vols are already irrelevant. They'll soon be irrelevant and long forgotten.

Whilst I LOVE your prediction and sentiments, I don't believe Tennessee will ever be irrelevant. Don't get me wrong - I will always root for them to drop out of the top 25 forever, but the history of WCBB is not THAT long and Tennessee is the 2nd greatest program of all time. That reputation and aura will at least get them in the door with recruits. If you look at the current list of top uncommitted recruits, Tennessee is often in the final 5.

Additionally, people have often wondered why Tenn continues to get top 10-15 kids. Just my $.02 but i think it's a couple reasons. First, the history/repuatation. Besides UCONN, there is no program that has achieved anything close to what Tenn did under Pat. Many kids would love to be the next Catch or Holdsclaw or Lawson or Parker.

Second, from what I understand, Pat and her staff have done a terrific job of being on talented kids early and often. Additionally, they preach a "family" atmosphere and developing strong relationships with recruits can't be over stated.

Third, once you have a couple talented kids it's easier to get more to come. "Commit to Tenn and play with Russell, Nared, Hayes, Davis, Westbrook, etc etc." It doesn't seem to matter to these kids that they aren't developed.

Last, the fan base. Tenn is always in the top 5 in attendance and easily has one of the most rabid and committed fan base in WCBB. Recruits WANT to play in legendary TBA in front of 15,000 rabid fans.

 

[cbraarj]

Whilst I LOVE your prediction and sentiments, I don't believe Tennessee will ever be irrelevant. Don't get me wrong - I will always root for them to drop out of the top 25 forever, but the history of WCBB is not THAT long and Tennessee is the 2nd greatest program of all time. That reputation and aura will at least get them in the door with recruits. If you look at the current list of top uncommitted recruits, Tennessee is often in the final 5.

Additionally, people have often wondered why Tenn continues to get top 10-15 kids. Just my $.02 but i think it's a couple reasons. First, the history/repuatation. Besides UCONN, there is no program that has achieved anything close to what Tenn did under Pat. Many kids would love to be the next Catch or Holdsclaw or Lawson or Parker.

Second, from what I understand, Pat and her staff have done a terrific job of being on talented kids early and often. Additionally, they preach a "family" atmosphere and developing strong relationships with recruits can't be over stated.

Third, once you have a couple talented kids it's easier to get more to come. "Commit to Tenn and play with Russell, Nared, Hayes, Davis, Westbrook, etc etc." It doesn't seem to matter to these kids that they aren't developed.

Last, the fan base. Tenn is always in the top 5 in attendance and easily has one of the most rabid and committed fan base in WCBB. Recruits WANT to play in legendary TBA in front of 15,000 rabid fans.

Lawson never won a NC. The other three won at least two.

 

[oldude]

UT filed NCAA complaint alleging UConn violations

May the pill be more bitter and the suffering be longer.

OK, I get it. The TN coaching staff and Administration are a bunch of bums. I don’t assign the same level of blame to the entire fan base.

 

[j66kicker]

OK, I get it. The TN coaching staff and Administration are a bunch of bums. I don’t assign the same level of blame to the entire fan base.

I'm sure there are some nice people in their fan base. But they are represented by the vocal fans who are much worse than the coaching staff and administration bums. Unfortunately some of the nice ones will have to burn in hell with the rest ("the farthest place in hell", props to Eric )

 

[Carnac]

If nothing else, Fulmer is loyal to the Nth degree. Obviously, he does not view the Lady Vol's fall from grace over the past few years the same way their fan base does. He sees something they don't. Sometimes administrators think and see things differently than fans and alumni do. SMH. Does anyone here see Warlick turning this program around under her watch?

Even though it's been about 12 or so years since Pat Summitt and Tennesse fired the first volley of enemy fire at UConn, to long time UConn fans, it's like it was yesterday. The wounds are still fresh, the ire is still hot and thick, and the wounds won't heal anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Some folks want to describe the Tennessee program as mediocre, but it is so only in
comparison to what it was under Summitt. By normal standards the program has
been quite successful. Tennessee makes the tournament every year, is ranked every
year, and challenges for the conference title every year. How many programs can say
that?

N0 doubt in Philip Fulmer's eyes, the program has been quite successful. I'm not surprised
that Holly got an extension.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

If nothing else, Fulmer is loyal to the Nth degree. Obviously, he does not view the Lady Vol's fall from grace over the past few years the same way their fan base does. He sees something they don't. Sometimes administrators think and see things differently than fans and alumni do. SMH. Does anyone here see Warlick turning this program around under her watch?

Even though it's been about 12 or so years since Pat Summitt and Tennesse fired the first volley of enemy fire at UConn, to long time UConn fans, it's like it was yesterday. The wounds are still fresh, the ire is still hot and thick, and the wounds won't heal anytime in the foreseeable future.

He sees an Athletics Department that is still paying several former football coaches and is hurting for money.

 

[Alydar]

Quite a while ago, when I use to periodically access the Lady Vols site , I posted that the Vols were missing-out on not signing Kara Lawson as their next coach. It was no great revelation on my part in that she has, had all the right credentials : a highly successful former point guard, a Tenn alum and most importantly, an exceptionally keen basketball mind. Then, as now, she lacked coaching experience, and Tenn posters shot her potential candidacy down based on a “no experience” qualifier . Whether she would have considered coaching back then , is unknown. She now has indicated she would definitely consider it ...assuming the right opportunity. Tennessee may have missed the boat, at least temporarily, on the type individual with the potential for turning their program around ( again dominating the SEC and again becoming a Final Four candidate..similiar to past exploits ).

Interestingly both Summitt & Auriemma got hired without any head coaching experience.

 

[Vowelguy]

Quite a while ago, when I use to periodically access the Lady Vols site , I posted that the Vols were missing-out on not signing Kara Lawson as their next coach. It was no great revelation on my part in that she has, had all the right credentials : a highly successful former point guard, a Tenn alum and most importantly, an exceptionally keen basketball mind.

What she doesn't have: discernible interest in coaching. She also has a pretty nice gig right now, as the lead WCBB analyst for ESPN, an increasing MCBB analyst, and the 1st female analyst for the NBA's Washington Wizards.

Also I think you are muddling great presentation/analysis with great coaching. They are related and overlap, but not entirely.
While the base for coaching and TV is BB analysis,
a great TV analyst also needs to be a great speaker and presenter
while a great coach needs to be a great teacher to kids and recruiter

I have no idea if Lawson can do the latter things. And I don't know why a top tier program would take a chance on an unproven commodity, when it surely could hire a top coach away from most other P5 schools.

 

[bballnut90]

Interestingly both Summitt & Auriemma got hired without any head coaching experience.

Different eras and caliber programs back then, but valid point. Nicki Collin didn’t have any head coaching experience and she has done a heck of a job with the Dream this season.

I’d welcome Kara in a heartbeat. I don’t know how her interpersonal skills are (although she seems quite likeable), but she clearly has the knowledge to be a great coach and understands the Xs and Os quite well. How well she teaches and manages a team remains to be seen. I have zero doubt she’d be a great recruiter and would be able to target a certain personality types that will blend well with her coaching style, similar to Geno/Muffet.

I can’t imagine a program of Tennessee’s caliber hiring someone without any head coaching experience, or at least extensive assistant coaching experience, but I’d rather give Kara a shot than Holly. Top of my wish list includes Rueck, Schaefer, Lawson, Ralph, Banghart, Collen and Ivey. All are long shots but if I was the AD that’s who I’d target.

 

[bballnut90]

What she doesn't have: discernible interest in coaching. She also has a pretty nice gig right now, as the lead WCBB analyst for ESPN, an increasing MCBB analyst, and the 1st female analyst for the NBA's Washington Wizards.

Also I think you are muddling great presentation/analysis with great coaching. They are related and overlap, but not entirely.
While the base for coaching and TV is BB analysis,
a great TV analyst also needs to be a great speaker and presenter
while a great coach needs to be a great teacher to kids and recruiter

I have no idea if Lawson can do the latter things. And I don't know why a top tier program would take a chance on an unproven commodity, when it surely could hire a top coach away from most other P5 schools.

She did coach last summer the U18 3x3 teams. I have no idea how much she makes as an announcer, but I’m guessing she’d easily be able to land a P5 coaching job if she wanted one and would start out making at least 300k+ in her first year. Overachieve expectations and land a bigger gig in a couple of years, or collect a really nice payday on her next contract. She does have a great gig, but I think she can always fall back on announcing if she doesn’t find success as a coach.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I've gone back and forth over the past few years about Warlick. It's clear to me something has been wrong with the program the past few years and on paper they should have accomplished much more. However, as bad as they've looked at times they still manage to win a fair share of games and have wound up with records most programs would love. I've watched some games they lost and thought "she needs to go" then would remember later she isn't Summitt and no one else is either.

Warlick was given a situation that she couldn't have imagined and appeared to have held the ship steady for a couple of seasons. I still consider UT to be among the top programs mainly due to its history, facilities, fan support and name recognition. Even today's recruits who haven't seen UT in the FF know the legacy of the program. It's understandable she would receive an extension so she can continue to recruit. How long her leash is remains to be seen. There doesn't appear to have been a full blown mutiny and I definitely felt like the team last season had much better chemistry for whatever reason.

I don't know what to think about the team this upcoming season. The now sophomore class looked very good at times and not such much in other situations. The new freshmen enter with good reputations and could help them out. This team is young and doesn't have much depth. It could be a good year in Knoxville but it could also be the end of Warlick's time if there isn't a major improvement.

 

[bballnut90]

I've gone back and forth over the past few years about Warlick. It's clear to me something has been wrong with the program the past few years and on paper they should have accomplished much more. However, as bad as they've looked at times they still manage to win a fair share of games and have wound up with records most programs would love. I've watched some games they lost and thought "she needs to go" then would remember later she isn't Summitt and no one else is either.

Warlick was given a situation that she couldn't have imagined and appeared to have held the ship steady for a couple of seasons. I still consider UT to be among the top programs mainly due to its history, facilities, fan support and name recognition. Even today's recruits who haven't seen UT in the FF know the legacy of the program. It's understandable she would receive an extension so she can continue to recruit. How long her leash is remains to be seen. There doesn't appear to have been a full blown mutiny and I definitely felt like the team last season had much better chemistry for whatever reason.

I don't know what to think about the team this upcoming season. The now sophomore class looked very good at times and not such much in other situations. The new freshmen enter with good reputations and could help them out. This team is young and doesn't have much depth. It could be a good year in Knoxville but it could also be the end of Warlick's time if there isn't a major improvement.

I don't think any (reasonable) fans expect her to be the next Pat Summitt, but we do expect her to be a successful coach considering she inherited an immensely successful program. It's the same issue at Tennessee that Duke has had with Coach P.....yes, she can recruit good players, but they don't improve much under her tutelage and her teams consistently underachieve relative to expectations. Sure, Tennessee can be a steady top 25 program that makes the Sweet 16/Elite 8 every other year, but they aren't ever going to get over the hump under Holly. Even when they've had an extremely favorable draw (2013 and 2016), Holly still couldn't deliver.

Her only saving grace IMO is her recruiting, which honestly hasn't been very strong besides solid hauls in 2013 and 2017. No matter who is coaching, Tennessee will always be able to recruit well being a P5 school with rich history, great facilities and a strong fan base. Players will come to play for the name on the jersey alone. Get a better coach in there who can build and develop talent rather than keeping Holly on board who is the queen of accomplishing less with more.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I've gone back and forth over the past few years about Warlick. It's clear to me something has been wrong with the program the past few years and on paper they should have accomplished much more. However, as bad as they've looked at times they still manage to win a fair share of games and have wound up with records most programs would love. I've watched some games they lost and thought "she needs to go" then would remember later she isn't Summitt and no one else is either.

Warlick was given a situation that she couldn't have imagined and appeared to have held the ship steady for a couple of seasons. I still consider UT to be among the top programs mainly due to its history, facilities, fan support and name recognition. Even today's recruits who haven't seen UT in the FF know the legacy of the program. It's understandable she would receive an extension so she can continue to recruit. How long her leash is remains to be seen. There doesn't appear to have been a full blown mutiny and I definitely felt like the team last season had much better chemistry for whatever reason.

I don't know what to think about the team this upcoming season. The now sophomore class looked very good at times and not such much in other situations. The new freshmen enter with good reputations and could help them out. This team is young and doesn't have much depth. It could be a good year in Knoxville but it could also be the end of Warlick's time if there isn't a major improvement.

The tragedy of her tenure is in the way she is leading her team..... it is only my opinion, but her team seems to lack discipline, and a good handle on the fundamentals as well. She needs help developing a more sophisticated offensive scheme.... or needs to seek help in this regard.... The old defense rebounding and effort formula is passé.

 

[Volup1]

Something to watch this year is the role of Bridgette Gordon who was hired in July 2017 as Assistant Coach for the Lady Vols. Her jersey hangs in the rafters at TBA and her college resume is every bit as impressive as those of Holdsclaw, Catchings, and Parker. Her coaching resume, however, does not stand out. She has a very imposing presence, but it remains to be seen if she will be an effective teacher of the game and disciplinarian for our very young team:
University of Tennessee Athletics

 

[Bayareahusky]

Something to watch this year is the role of Bridgette Gordon who was hired in July 2017 as Assistant Coach for the Lady Vols. Her jersey hangs in the rafters at TBA and her college resume is every bit as impressive as those of Holdsclaw, Catchings, and Parker. Her coaching resume, however, does not stand out. She has a very imposing presence, but it remains to be seen if she will be an effective teacher of the game and disciplinarian for our very young team:
University of Tennessee Athletics

I hope for your sake that Gordon shines..... As it is I think Tenn would be better if Gordon was Head Coach..... seldom have I seen an assistant coach make a discernible difference in any sport.... as an assistant, Gordon will march to Holly's music.... unless she is allowed to assert herself and burst through....

 

[HuskylnSC]

I read a point on Vol Nation that made some sense to me. The poster said the new contract has very much reduced HW's benefits if she is fired. It will be cheaper to fire her with the new contract. That will allow the administration to select a time to let her go when it will have the least negative impact on recruiting. It was an interesting take. However, I don't know if the poster had any inside info on the contract wording.

 

[oldude]

I read a point on Vol Nation that made some sense to me. The poster said the new contract has very much reduced HW's benefits if she is fired. It will be cheaper to fire her with the new contract. That will allow the administration to select a time to let her go when it will have the least negative impact on recruiting. It was an interesting take. However, I don't know if the poster had any inside info on the contract wording.

Interesting point, if true, but it may just be wishful thinking on the part of the poster.

 

[oldude]

Tennessee can be a steady top 25 program that makes the Sweet 16/Elite 8 every other year.

This past season was one of those “other” years, and that’s what makes the contract extension so difficult to understand. A very talented Lady Vol team crashes and burns on their home court in Knoxville in the 2nd round vs a rebuilding OSU team with a very good coach.

The contrast between the Lady Vols and the Beavers programs is striking. Had TN football or MBB ended their season so ignominiously, the last thing anyone would have been talking about would be a contract extension for the respective coaches.

 

[Husky pride]

What she doesn't have: discernible interest in coaching. She also has a pretty nice gig right now, as the lead WCBB analyst for ESPN, an increasing MCBB analyst, and the 1st female analyst for the NBA's Washington Wizards.

Also I think you are muddling great presentation/analysis with great coaching. They are related and overlap, but not entirely.
While the base for coaching and TV is BB analysis,
a great TV analyst also needs to be a great speaker and presenter
while a great coach needs to be a great teacher to kids and recruiter

I have no idea if Lawson can do the latter things. And I don't know why a top tier program would take a chance on an unproven commodity, when it surely could hire a top coach away from most other P5 schools.

You make some good points. At this time, we don’t know whether her “great analysis” would transfer over to coaching. In that she has had the added benefit of being “schooled” by Pat.......my money is on her to be able to handle the challenge!! True, she has a great current job ( monetarily, reportedly $350K) but, assuming an interest, Tennessee could easily cover that if not more and, if successful, she could have higher coaching paychecks ahead. Would a program with the pedigree of the Lady Vols being taking a chance? Sure! But , she’s definitely, as of late, shown to have an interest in coaching and , I would think, should command attention from many women’s programs should she elect to change career paths. Stay tuned!

 

[Vowelguy]

In that she has had the added benefit of being “schooled” by Pat..

I will also note that Kellie Jolly Harper was a very good TN guard who even had a solid coaching record at W Carolina (2 NCAAs, 2 WNITs in 5 yrs). She failed at NC St.

It's not easy.

 

[Vowelguy]

Among major college sports, it is only in WCBB that folks seem to think a former player can come in with no experience and be a great coach. Why do many think so little of what it takes to be a great WCBB coach?

No one suggested that Ray Allen should've been the UConn MCBB coach. That would've been crazy.