Holly Warlick Contract Extension [merged thread] | The Boneyard

Holly Warlick Contract Extension [merged thread]

Maybe the talent that for inexplicable reasons continues to go there will bail them out in the regular season, but they will remain pretenders under Ms. Holly. Meanwhile, I will get to enjoy multiple Holly "I don't know....I just don't know" Pressers! :D
 
.@phillipfulmer: "There is no one better suited to lead what is one of the most unique and tradition-laden programs in the sport. Holly and her staff have recruited at an elite level, and the young women have developed on the court while also excelling academically."
 
In fairness... Holly HAS recruited gangbusters. People just complain she's not developing players.

For all the "Mercedes never developed", what exactly has she accomplished this year in the WNBA so far? She barely made a roster and gets garbage time. Possibly she simply was not as good as her #1 ranking indicated. It remains to be seen if she improves next year, but she's just not that good. And Nared isn't exactly lighting it up for Vegas either.

The scary part is they were the 2 best players on the team. Not sure if they were just over rated coming out of HS, if Holly really didn't develop them, or something else. I have no doubt Hayes, Westbrook and Davis will all be better this year, but they still lost their 2 best players. And I'm not convinced the freshmen they have coming in are "impact" players. Probably good to be sure, but I doubt they are going to light anything up, unless Holly plays them big minutes and lets them do whatever they want.

Not sure what my point is now that I think about it. But Holly has recruited as well as anyone in WCBB. we will see what that means in the next few years.
 
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EricLA said:
In fairness... Holly HAS recruited gangbusters. People just complain she's not developing players.

For all the "Mercedes never developed", what exactly has she accomplished this year in the WNBA so far? She barely made a roster and gets garbage time. Possibly she simply was not as good as her #1 ranking indicated. It remains to be seen if she improves next year, but she's just not that good. And Nared isn't exactly lighting it up for Vegas either.

The scary part is they were the 2 best players on the team. Not sure if they were just over rated coming out of HS, if Holly really didn't develop them, or something else. I have no doubt Hayes, Westbrook and Davis will all be better this year, but they still lost their 2 best players. And I'm not convinced the freshmen they have coming in are "impact" players. Probably good to be sure, but I doubt they are going to light anything up, unless Holly plays them big minutes and lets them do whatever they want.

Not sure what my point is now that I think about it. But Holly has recruited as well as anyone in WCBB. we will see what that means in the next few years.
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Russell not being a WNBA caliber player means she wasn’t developed. She didn’t come into college with a WNBA ready game, but most number one recruits don’t. None of KLS, Walker Stewart, Charles, Wilson, etc. had polished games by the time they hit college. Their games were developed and improved during their 4 years. That’s a sign of good coaching.

Tennessee’s players just don’t improve as much, if at all under Holly. Guards don’t learn what’s a good shot, how to make a good entry pass, and how to run any sort of offense. Posts do not learn necessary skills needed for the pro game and players just aren’t much better than they coming into the program, nor are they challenged to work hard or held accountable when they play lazy or sloppy basketball. Russell is a prime example of that. I have little doubt that Russell would’ve been a star player at many other schools but she just didn’t make big strides under Holly and wasn’t pushed to improve as a player. I posted this on Volnation, but from 2011-2014, Tennessee landed 5 of the 20 players who were ranked top 5 in their class. 0 went on to become All-Americans, while 9 of the 14 others (1 didn’t play college basketball) become AP All Americans, with 8 of them earning AP honors in multiple seasons. All of the #1 recruits were multiple season AAs besides Russell. None of the 5 players look like they’ll be strong WNBA players besides Deshields who only played under Holly for 2 years. That is extremely telling.

Talent without coaching can only get you so far. Tennessee has been the poster child for this the last few years under Holly. Same with McGuff at Ohio State. The scary thing about this situation for Tennessee fans is that Holly is recruiting well enough to put together teams that appear to be top 5-10 on paper, but they perform like a 20-30th ranked team that will many some games solely on talent, but they’ll never compete for a title under Holly. Quite the change from Pat’s era of greatness.

Top recruits will still come because Tennessee is one of the easiest schools to recruit to (facilities, fan base, historical success, location, etc), so I don’t doubt that Holly will continue to land good kids, but the program will continue to be mediocre as long as she is there.

This upcoming season has high potential to be a disastrous one for Tennessee. The only proven player they have coming back is Davis...there is zero proven experience in the post and both returning point guards struggled shooting the ball and had awful A/TO ratios. The incoming class has a lot of kids, but no one who appears to be a stud that can average double figures from the get go. It’s a very young roster too. Holly has her work cut out for her.
 
I guess if the Lady Vol program wants to continuously recruit elite talent, underachieve every year, and have their players leave the program mediocre instead of elite as they went into the program....... Then there truly isn't anyone better suited than Holly.
 
EricLA said:
For all the "Mercedes never developed", what exactly has she accomplished this year in the WNBA so far? She barely made a roster and gets garbage time. Possibly she simply was not as good as her #1 ranking indicated. It remains to be seen if she improves next year, but she's just not that good. And Nared isn't exactly lighting it up for Vegas either.
Expand ...

DeShields has been having a successful rookie campaign and Tennessee underachieved during her years there as well. That's a case where Holly clearly had a player with WNBA talent.
 
Russell is a rookie. Seattle has a MVP type player in Stewart. Also Howard is is a pretty good player.
 
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I feel like both Russell and Nared would have had much more successful careers had they stayed home and played under Rueck and Oregon State. Can’t blame them for making the decision as Oregon State and Oregon were both pretty much at their low point when they were both being recruited, but I was surprised to see Westbrook go to Tennessee too, where she saw former top recruits out of Oregon and the lackluster performances they were having at Tennessee while Oregon State was making Final fours. I think Russell couldve been a too player if she developed the way Oregon St. developed Hamblin and Gulich
 
In all honesty, I feel bad for dedicated Lady Vol fans. After years of being one of the top programs in WBB under Pat Summit, TN has embraced mediocrity under HW. I’m sure that VolNation is hurting.
 
DaBball said:
I feel like both Russell and Nared would have had much more successful careers had they stayed home and played under Rueck and Oregon State. Can’t blame them for making the decision as Oregon State and Oregon were both pretty much at their low point when they were both being recruited, but I was surprised to see Westbrook go to Tennessee too, where she saw former top recruits out of Oregon and the lackluster performances they were having at Tennessee while Oregon State was making Final fours. I think Russell couldve been a too player if she developed the way Oregon St. developed Hamblin and Gulich
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Agreed. I’m honestly surprised that there weren’t any transfers this offseason by the freshmen. Holly had to play the freshmen more than she probably wanted to with Cooper and Deshields leaving in the offseason, but both PGs looked super burnt out by the end of the year after they were tossed in the fire when they weren’t ready for it. They’ll be in control of the team this year as sophomores and have their chance to take on a bigger role, but if they have another tough year maybe a lightbulb will go off that it’s probably in their best interest to transfer to a school where they’ll get better coaching.
 
oldude said:
In all honesty, I feel bad for dedicated Lady Vol fans. After years of being one of the top programs in WBB under Pat Summit, TN has embraced mediocrity under HW. I’m sure that VolNation is hurting.
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What??? I don't feel bad for them at all - they deserve it. For all I care the mediocrity can continue into eternity. Holly's extension is a good head start on that - self-inflicted mediocrity.

In 2022, when this latest contract extension expires and the Lady Vols again crash out of the NCAA tourney in round 2 (if they even get in), that year's crop of incoming high school recruits will have been 3 years old the last time TN won a national championship. How long has it been since Tennessee had a bona fide All American? This is just a place where McDonald's AA's go to regress into averageness. The Lady Vols are already irrelevant. They'll soon be irrelevant and long forgotten.
 
Wow, I am absolutely amazed that she got an extension! I think we should look to enter the coaching ranks, there are not many jobs in this world, where you can be as bad as Warlick, and still get a contract extension!
 
Tennessee’s players just don’t improve as much, if at all under Holly. Guards don’t learn what’s a good shot, how to make a good entry pass, and how to run any sort of offense. Posts do not learn necessary skills needed for the pro game and players just aren’t much better than they coming into the program, nor are they challenged to work hard or held accountable when they play lazy or sloppy basketball. Russell is a prime example of that. I have little doubt that Russell would’ve been a star player at many other schools but she just didn’t make big strides under Holly and wasn’t pushed to improve as a player. I posted this on Volnation, but from 2011-2014, Tennessee landed 5 of the 20 players who were ranked top 5 in their class. 0 went on to become All-Americans, while 9 of the 14 others (1 didn’t play college basketball) become AP All Americans, with 8 of them earning AP honors in multiple seasons. All of the #1 recruits were multiple season AAs besides Russell. None of the 5 players look like they’ll be strong WNBA players besides Deshields who only played under Holly for 2 years. That is extremely telling.

Talent without coaching can only get you so far. Tennessee has been the poster child for this the last few years under Holly. Same with McGuff at Ohio State. The scary thing about this situation for Tennessee fans is that Holly is recruiting well enough to put together teams that appear to be top 5-10 on paper, but they perform like a 20-30th ranked team that will many some games solely on talent, but they’ll never compete for a title under Holly.

Great insight BB..... yes goes to the coaching and the fundamentals.... and as a former coach, I see things that are easy to spot and I think are elementary to correct..... I have always thought that Holly does not have the respect of her players to the degree that they will listen to her and implement her teachings... that is if she passes along anything worth embracing.... I give Mercedes a pass.... only because once in a while highly touted prospects are not for real.... but yes she would have been better off with Altman or Rueuk.... Holly has been able to recruit well, yet her teams go nowhere.... no surprise to objective fans where the problem lies
 
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j66kicker said:
What??? I don't feel bad for them at all - they deserve it. For all I care the mediocrity can continue into eternity. Holly's extension is a good head start on that - self-inflicted mediocrity.

In 2022, when this latest contract extension expires and the Lady Vols again crash out of the NCAA tourney in round 2 (if they even get in), that year's crop of incoming high school recruits will have been 3 years old the last time TN won a national championship. How long has it been since Tennessee had a bona fide All American? This is just a place where McDonald's AA's go to regress into averageness. The Lady Vols are already irrelevant. They'll soon be irrelevant and long forgotten.
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While I agree with your suggestion that the Lady Vols are becoming irrelevant, I’m not sure why you would suggest that loyal Lady Vol fans “deserve” mediocrity. Many of these fans are knowledgeable individuals who have been asking...no begging for a coaching change for years. Their pleas have been falling on deaf ears at TN. This latest contract extension for HW has to be a bitter pill for many long suffering supporters of the Lady Vols.
 
TitleTown said:
Wow, I am absolutely amazed that she got an extension! I think we should look to enter the coaching ranks, there are not many jobs in this world, where you can be as bad as Warlick, and still get a contract extension!
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How much of the contract is guaranteed? or is this a ploy to help to recruit
 
Checkmate said:
How much of the contract is guaranteed? or is this a ploy to help to recruit
Expand ...
Almost all coaching contracts are fully guaranteed, and almost all NCAA coaching contract extensions are a “ploy” to help recruiting.
 
j66kicker said:
What??? I don't feel bad for them at all - they deserve it. For all I care the mediocrity can continue into eternity. Holly's extension is a good head start on that - self-inflicted mediocrity.

In 2022, when this latest contract extension expires and the Lady Vols again crash out of the NCAA tourney in round 2 (if they even get in), that year's crop of incoming high school recruits will have been 3 years old the last time TN won a national championship. How long has it been since Tennessee had a bona fide All American? This is just a place where McDonald's AA's go to regress into averageness. The Lady Vols are already irrelevant. They'll soon be irrelevant and long forgotten.
Expand ...

Have some chocolate @j66kicker - very good for the mood.
 
bballnut90 said:
Russell not being a WNBA caliber player means she wasn’t developed. She didn’t come into college with a WNBA ready game, but most number one recruits don’t. None of KLS, Walker Stewart, Charles, Wilson, etc. had polished games by the time they hit college. Their games were developed and improved during their 4 years. That’s a sign of good coaching.

Tennessee’s players just don’t improve as much, if at all under Holly. Guards don’t learn what’s a good shot, how to make a good entry pass, and how to run any sort of offense. Posts do not learn necessary skills needed for the pro game and players just aren’t much better than they coming into the program, nor are they challenged to work hard or held accountable when they play lazy or sloppy basketball. Russell is a prime example of that. I have little doubt that Russell would’ve been a star player at many other schools but she just didn’t make big strides under Holly and wasn’t pushed to improve as a player. I posted this on Volnation, but from 2011-2014, Tennessee landed 5 of the 20 players who were ranked top 5 in their class. 0 went on to become All-Americans, while 9 of the 14 others (1 didn’t play college basketball) become AP All Americans, with 8 of them earning AP honors in multiple seasons. All of the #1 recruits were multiple season AAs besides Russell. None of the 5 players look like they’ll be strong WNBA players besides Deshields who only played under Holly for 2 years. That is extremely telling.

Talent without coaching can only get you so far. Tennessee has been the poster child for this the last few years under Holly. Same with McGuff at Ohio State. The scary thing about this situation for Tennessee fans is that Holly is recruiting well enough to put together teams that appear to be top 5-10 on paper, but they perform like a 20-30th ranked team that will many some games solely on talent, but they’ll never compete for a title under Holly. Quite the change from Pat’s era of greatness.

Top recruits will still come because Tennessee is one of the easiest schools to recruit to (facilities, fan base, historical success, location, etc), so I don’t doubt that Holly will continue to land good kids, but the program will continue to be mediocre as long as she is there.

This upcoming season has high potential to be a disastrous one for Tennessee. The only proven player they have coming back is Davis...there is zero proven experience in the post and both returning point guards struggled shooting the ball and had awful A/TO ratios. The incoming class has a lot of kids, but no one who appears to be a stud that can average double figures from the get go. It’s a very young roster too. Holly has her work cut out for her.
Expand ...
Quite a while ago, when I use to periodically access the Lady Vols site , I posted that the Vols were missing-out on not signing Kara Lawson as their next coach. It was no great revelation on my part in that she has, had all the right credentials : a highly successful former point guard, a Tenn alum and most importantly, an exceptionally keen basketball mind. Then, as now, she lacked coaching experience, and Tenn posters shot her potential candidacy down based on a “no experience” qualifier . Whether she would have considered coaching back then , is unknown. She now has indicated she would definitely consider it ...assuming the right opportunity. Tennessee may have missed the boat, at least temporarily, on the type individual with the potential for turning their program around ( again dominating the SEC and again becoming a Final Four candidate..similiar to past exploits ).
 
oldude said:
While I agree with your suggestion that the Lady Vols are becoming irrelevant, I’m not sure why you would suggest that loyal Lady Vol fans “deserve” mediocrity. Many of these fans are knowledgeable individuals who have been asking...no begging for a coaching change for years. Their pleas have been falling on deaf ears at TN. This latest contract extension for HW has to be a bitter pill for many long suffering supporters of the Lady Vols.
Expand ...
UT filed NCAA complaint alleging UConn violations

May the pill be more bitter and the suffering be longer.
 
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Husky pride said:
Quite a while ago, when I use to periodically access the Lady Vols site , I posted that the Vols were missing-out on not signing Kara Lawson as their next coach. It was no great revelation on my part in that she has, had all the right credentials : a highly successful former point guard, a Tenn alum and most importantly, an exceptionally keen basketball mind. Then, as now, she lacked coaching experience, and Tenn posters shot her potential candidacy down based on a “no experience” qualifier . Whether she would have considered coaching back then , is unknown. She now has indicated she would definitely consider it ...assuming the right opportunity. Tennessee may have missed the boat, at least temporarily, on the type individual with the potential for turning their program around ( again dominating the SEC and again becoming a Final Four candidate..similiar to past exploits ).
Expand ...
I should have indicated that, although she also played the point, Kara was primarily a shooting guard. My error.
 
nwhoopfan said:
DeShields has been having a successful rookie campaign and Tennessee underachieved during her years there as well. That's a case where Holly clearly had a player with WNBA talent.
Expand ...

For that matter, Aja Wilson has been stupendous in her rookie season, far exceeding her performance in college. She was never fully integrated into South Carolina's offense, as she has been in the pros.

Good to see DeShields perform better in the pros. Perhaps maturity and the knowledge that she was really on probation due to her frequent blow-ups in college have led to that better output.
 
Fairfield Fan said:
For that matter, Aja Wilson has been stupendous in her rookie season, far exceeding her performance in college. She was never fully integrated into South Carolina's offense, as she has been in the pros.

Good to see DeShields perform better in the pros. Perhaps maturity and the knowledge that she was really on probation due to her frequent blow-ups in college have led to that better output.
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Not to get off topic..but Wilson now has teammates who can hit open shots which creates much better spacing for her to operate inside or from the high post. She didn’t have that her last year at SC, she was essentially the only strong offensive threat on the roster. In the pros she’s been very good, but she’s also had a green light unlike any rookie I’ve seen before. She’s had more than her share of bad shooting nights (12 games where she’s shot between 20-38%) and she always takes 10+ shots per game. Vegas needs her to be effective so I don’t see any problem with that, but I don’t see her as being a whole lot more integrated as a pro as much as she has better teammates and has landed on a team that desperately needed size and production from the post.

And Deshields never had blowups, she always kept her cool. She just never seemed all that passionate on the court and was rarely in sync with teammates. Never saw a shot she disliked and knew she could play Diamond ball since she was so talented and Holly never kept her in line. The pros she’s played with much more control and hasn’t forced the issue, in part because she probably knows she can’t or she’ll be benched in favor of another good player. She knew she wasn’t ever going to be benched at Tennessee.
 
j66kicker said:
What??? I don't feel bad for them at all - they deserve it. For all I care the mediocrity can continue into eternity. Holly's extension is a good head start on that - self-inflicted mediocrity.

In 2022, when this latest contract extension expires and the Lady Vols again crash out of the NCAA tourney in round 2 (if they even get in), that year's crop of incoming high school recruits will have been 3 years old the last time TN won a national championship. How long has it been since Tennessee had a bona fide All American? This is just a place where McDonald's AA's go to regress into averageness. The Lady Vols are already irrelevant. They'll soon be irrelevant and long forgotten.
Expand ...
Whilst I LOVE your prediction and sentiments, I don't believe Tennessee will ever be irrelevant. Don't get me wrong - I will always root for them to drop out of the top 25 forever, but the history of WCBB is not THAT long and Tennessee is the 2nd greatest program of all time. That reputation and aura will at least get them in the door with recruits. If you look at the current list of top uncommitted recruits, Tennessee is often in the final 5.

Additionally, people have often wondered why Tenn continues to get top 10-15 kids. Just my $.02 but i think it's a couple reasons. First, the history/repuatation. Besides UCONN, there is no program that has achieved anything close to what Tenn did under Pat. Many kids would love to be the next Catch or Holdsclaw or Lawson or Parker.

Second, from what I understand, Pat and her staff have done a terrific job of being on talented kids early and often. Additionally, they preach a "family" atmosphere and developing strong relationships with recruits can't be over stated.

Third, once you have a couple talented kids it's easier to get more to come. "Commit to Tenn and play with Russell, Nared, Hayes, Davis, Westbrook, etc etc." It doesn't seem to matter to these kids that they aren't developed.

Last, the fan base. Tenn is always in the top 5 in attendance and easily has one of the most rabid and committed fan base in WCBB. Recruits WANT to play in legendary TBA in front of 15,000 rabid fans.
 
EricLA said:
Whilst I LOVE your prediction and sentiments, I don't believe Tennessee will ever be irrelevant. Don't get me wrong - I will always root for them to drop out of the top 25 forever, but the history of WCBB is not THAT long and Tennessee is the 2nd greatest program of all time. That reputation and aura will at least get them in the door with recruits. If you look at the current list of top uncommitted recruits, Tennessee is often in the final 5.

Additionally, people have often wondered why Tenn continues to get top 10-15 kids. Just my $.02 but i think it's a couple reasons. First, the history/repuatation. Besides UCONN, there is no program that has achieved anything close to what Tenn did under Pat. Many kids would love to be the next Catch or Holdsclaw or Lawson or Parker.

Second, from what I understand, Pat and her staff have done a terrific job of being on talented kids early and often. Additionally, they preach a "family" atmosphere and developing strong relationships with recruits can't be over stated.

Third, once you have a couple talented kids it's easier to get more to come. "Commit to Tenn and play with Russell, Nared, Hayes, Davis, Westbrook, etc etc." It doesn't seem to matter to these kids that they aren't developed.

Last, the fan base. Tenn is always in the top 5 in attendance and easily has one of the most rabid and committed fan base in WCBB. Recruits WANT to play in legendary TBA in front of 15,000 rabid fans.
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Lawson never won a NC. The other three won at least two.
 
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