Holly or Coach P, who gets to a Final Four first?

[Bayareahusky]

I know you can't post anything here that sounds even a little bit supportive of UT but I feel for Holly having waited all these years for Pat to step aside (even if she only did so after her health concerns required it) and now she is being expected to win like Pat did. And I don't see redeaming qualities in Coach P's approah, but Salvadores is going to make a tremendous difference at Duke. I think they get there while Salvadores is there. On the other hand, Diamond is a wild card and while I think that she will score and have great games along the way, I don't think she gets them to the Emerald City. They both have great talent but Salvadores is special and by '17 I think Duke is in the Final Four.

Oh I do not think people on this board feel offended at all by positive comments about Holly or U Tennessee in general..... Of course it is a partisan board..... but all others are welcome with their opinions...... the posters will certainly give their opinions..... and I think in very good taste..... without the vitriol one sees on other boards.....

 

[Bayareahusky]

Holly in the three years as Head Coach. Three SEC titles win or shared. Two E8 and one Sweet 16. How many head coaches have that after three years? We have seen Diamond as Freshman at UNC. We know what a great athlete she is. To me the key to this season is Russell. She provides some needed size. Also fully healthy we can see her improvement.

Yes Holly did reach those bars..... but lost to Louisville and Maryland last 3 years.... should have gone further..... JMO!!!! Even with 6 HS All Americans (that is after injuries)..... couldn't seem to get past what I considered to be weaker competition..... I do not have a vested interest in Holly's success or lack of success, I just do not think she has the "it" factor..... I think you are right in saying that Mercedes holds one of the keys for Lady Vol success next year. Hope she is feeling better..... because she is going to have to bring it

 

[BroadwayVa]

Holly. Because of Diamond. And because I think Duke's "talent" is consistently overrated. And their coach is flawed.

Diamond DeShields, needs a lot of growing up to do. She's a big talent, but one who has faltered ---at times her heart and soul aren't in playing hard to win games.
Coach McCallie has my vote, she has the talent, she has the experience, what she needs is good people (assistants) who speak their minds and actually help Coach P in the effort to win. In after games media rooms Coach has been less than fair to some of her players (I'v thought that true with other BT coaches,) but all a coach can do is scout, practice, and provide all the information her/his talented team needs to win--then, in truth, the players MUST perform, win or lose on their own---ONE biggie that coaches receive a lot of "mouth" about is CONDITIONING and without it all the above isn't worth a hill of beans--Uconn has won many games in the second half --by being conditioned properly i.e. running with the MARINES, Semper Fi !!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

Walz was on the board quickly.

Walz was/is a great coach got a lot out of players his predecessor couldn't. He ran a long way with limited talented kids who bought into him. I thought he was the next Geno in the WBB game, but he too has missed opportunities. He has recruited well --so we'll see if he truly is what I perceived..

 

[stwainfan]

Yes Holly did reach those bars..... but lost to Louisville and Maryland last 3 years.... should have gone further..... JMO!!!! Even with 6 HS All Americans (that is after injuries)..... couldn't seem to get past what I considered to be weaker competition..... I do not have a vested interest in Holly's success or lack of success, I just do not think she has the "it" factor..... I think you are right in saying that Mercedes holds one of the keys for Lady Vol success next year. Hope she is feeling better..... because she is going to have to bring it

Yes I think we will see the Mercedes we expected. Also since Cooper and DeShields have trained together. So having familiar face will help Cooper.

 

[cabbie191]

I tend toward Holly IF she can control and motivate DeShields. I know - a big if!

More seriously, I think Holly's coaching improved this past year; I don't think there's been any improvement on JPM's part.

 

[HuskyNan]

Walz was/is a great coach got a lot out of players his predecessor couldn't. He ran a long way with limited talented kids who bought into him.

I think you forgot that Angel McCaughtry was already at Louisville when Walz started there.

 

[Geno-ista]

Coach P, 10 years ago

Diamond DeShields, needs a lot of growing up to do. She's a big talent, but one who has faltered ---at times her heart and soul aren't in playing hard to win games.
Coach McCallie has my vote, she has the talent, she has the experience, what she needs is good people (assistants) who speak their minds and actually help Coach P in the effort to win. In after games media rooms Coach has been less than fair to some of her players (I'v thought that true with other BT coaches,) but all a coach can do is scout, practice, and provide all the information her/his talented team needs to win--then, in truth, the players MUST perform, win or lose on their own---ONE biggie that coaches receive a lot of "mouth" about is CONDITIONING and without it all the above isn't worth a hill of beans--Uconn has won many games in the second half --by being conditioned properly i.e. running with the MARINES, Semper Fi !!!

Br Way- where have you seen DD not give her all in tough games? I saw a really banged up Diamond carrying her NC team in the Tmt her freshman yr. u may be correct- I just havnt noticed. The Coach P train left the station a long time ago. DD carries Holly next yr to the FF-

 

[nd2tty]

Tennessee's ability to make the F4 in the next, say, 4 years might have a lot to do with seeding. If they manage #1 seeds and avoid drawing the same regional as some heavy hitters, then they might make it. The fact that they have missed the F4 the last three years without having to face UCONN, Notre Dame, Baylor, Stanford, etc, is a bit of a red flag. We saw what happened 2010-2012 when they faced Baylor twice (albeit Griner-era) and ND, and were handled pretty easily. Unless they get seeded well and draw well 2016-2020, Tennessee might look back on the 2013-2015 window and rue their missed chances to make a F4.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I think you forgot that Angel McCaughtry was already at Louisville when Walz started there.

Yeah, not sure you can say that Tom Collen didn't get a decent amount out of his Cards players with teams that averaged 22 wins in his last four seasons there and had a great duo of Angel McCoughtry and Jazz Covington for a 2007 team that lost in the second round and ended with 27 wins. But Covington graduated that year, and you could argue that McCoughtry had her best stats in her sophomore year before Walz arrived. She became much more of a volume shooter under Walz, and the arrival of transfer Candyce Binghan helped to propel the Cards to first a S16 appearance and then the NC game in 2009 in McCoughtry's senior year.

Walz didn't exactly inherit nothing, but it was certainly not a very deep team, and he has almost always gotten the most out of teams with far less stellar recruits than say a Duke in the ACC league they now sunk in.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I think Jeff Walz is a very good coach, though I don't like everything he does. He has had good success with less than top talent.

I could be a smart and say that Karen Aston's team was within 52 points of making the Elite 8--but I won't. I agree with Alex--I think that Karen is in the mix with JPM and Holly. In time, she may surpass them.

 

[meyers7]

Great post. From what I saw of Diamond, Holly will have problems controlling and directing her. When I saw Salvadores recently she was outstanding. IN total agreement that teams have talent, but the coaching is suspect. Right on about the 12 teams and seeding. Luck comes into play here. Final thought---we have all seen in every sport and at every level a select few coaches dominate. Being old school, over the last decade --again at every level (like parenting) it is clear that more teams are being run by the players and not the coach. Tennessee is one of them. Coach P is missing a hard edge or toughness. I have even seen a softening in Rutgers coach (I know she is older now) and IMHO Dawn Staley is tough at times, but coddles more than I would like. Her platooning is an example. Wacht out for Baylor --talent with Mulkey's fire. It's funny, Maryland's coach is super positive and motivating (pre-game and halftime), but her game coaching falls short. Coaches that allow the one-on-one dribble around offense will have a hard time winning it all. Quality 5 player teamwork set up by the coach and executed by a top point guard will continue to win. -- Sorry for being long winded and rambling.

Believe me, this is not considered long winded or rambling, on here.

 

[Bestiarius]

Holly in the three years as Head Coach. Three SEC titles win or shared. Two E8 and one Sweet 16. How many head coaches have that after three years? We have seen Diamond as Freshman at UNC. We know what a great athlete she is. To me the key to this season is Russell. She provides some needed size. Also fully healthy we can see her improvement.

Comparing Holly to other 3 year coaches is not valid. I’d equate Holly to Conrad Hilton’s sons taking over the Hilton hotel empire. The hotels were going to continue on even if the sons were incompetent, at least for a while.

Holly inherited an empire that was still governed by the aura of Head Coach Emeritus Summitt. Pat’s reputation and what she built at Tenn, enabled Holly to recruit and utilize the stable full of top recruits who all came because of Pat

Holly’s true test will be the future, as Pat’s influence diminishes via the passage of time. Next year will be critical in assessing Holly’s ability. Coaching Diamond, Mercedes and Cooper and coping with the loss of 3 key players, Massengale, Harrison and Burdick will enable an assessment of Holly’s true coaching ability. If Tenn cannot win the SEC or make the final four, it could spell trouble for recruiting. If all goes well next year, that will be an indication of Holly being a better coach than assessed by many. If it doesn’t go well, I think we can expect to see a steady erosion of Tennessee as a women’s basketball power.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Losing the Big 3 is going to be tuff for the Lady Vols..... Diamond is a given and we all expect her to shine....

What I am interested in is how soon Te'a can make the adjustment to the next level and how Mercedes is doing with her "lower body injury" as they say in hockey. Mercedes deserves some good luck.

How well they adjust will of course be a determinant in whether Holly gets to the FF

 

[stwainfan]

I expect that Diamond to be a star. I think that because of her it will change how teams defend Tennessee. A defense will have to know where she is it get lit up. Much like when Parker was there. That can open shots for others like Graves and Russell.

 

[BlueDevils]

Is this a thread about two coaches 72% of the boneyard dislikes? We were better putting up Karen Ashton, or even other young coaches who haven't been made the final four such as the Dayton coach alongside the two for cleverness. Oh and as someone else said Coach P has made it to the final four just not with Duke... Nice job.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Is this a thread about two coaches 72% of the boneyard dislikes? We were better putting up Karen Ashton, or even other young coaches who haven't been made the final four such as the Dayton coach alongside the two for cleverness. Oh and as someone else said Coach P has made it to the final four just not with Duke... Nice job.

I think you hit it on the head BD..... I know neither coach is a favorite..... but does not matter ..... what is the saying "it be what it be"... I have had the chance to see quite a few games for both these teams the last few years..... am not a great believer in either coach..... but have been telling myself voicing that on the BY serves no purpose!!! Both teams have great players..... so hopefully they will go far next year