Hockey East move is official.

[brasssbonanzaa]

The resources thing is a tough scope through which to view him. While he did not have any scholarships to work with, AHA doesn't allow any team to have more than (12?), which is far below the number that most leagues have, which I believe is around 20. And I'm not positive many of the schools in AHA actually have 12 since many are shoestring budget athletic departments and don't make much money at all on ticket sales. The thing that gets me is that he could not build the program to be a consistent competitor in an overall bad league. Yes, there have been some top teams, RIT is a solid program, Air Force has built a solid program, but UConn has been generally a bottom half of the league team. He's not consistently beating the likes of Canisius, AIC, Sacred Heart, and Bentley. He shouldn't need scholarships to build a program that's every year head and shoulders above those teams.

 

[freescooter]

Again, I have my concerns over marshal as a coach, but I still come back to the fact that he had minmal resources, against programs that had maybe a few more, and that makes a difference. I haven't been able to find the data but I recall a few years back that UConn, Holy Cross and RIT had zero scholarships. The next lowest number was 7. And that is a lot. Army and Air Force, obvioulsy, are a special case. Clearly there is a reason why the NCAA takes away scholarships as a penalty for rules infractions...it makes a difference. Now having said that, I am inclined to by dobbs' idea that to some degree, ove rthe last few years Marshall has in essence thrown up his hands and said "we can't compete." We'll see if the changed circumstances changes his outlook and his results. The difference between Bruce Marshall of D3 where he built a program that had always struggled into really a regional power, and the Bruce at D1 is pretty difficult to balance. For the 100th time, I don't want to be an apologist, but I do think you need to give some consideration to the circumstances.

 

[zls44]

I've been a pretty vocal anti-Marshall guy in the past, but the reality is that UConn is going to get it's mouth kicked in the first few seasons at a minimum. Even if York was the coach, that's just the reality, they're gonna get smoked. So, with that in mind, let the guy who's been a good soldier get his few years in the sun, and then, later, you can respectfully move on. Retirement, whatever you want to call it. Bruce is a good guy.

But the truth is, letting him have a shot AND be the guy who takes the bullet of having a horrid team the first few years prevents you from having to go through the coaching search process twice, plus it prevents the program from being branded as having unrealistic expectations and scaring off good coaches who want to make the leap in their careers.

 

[freescooter]

ugh, no. they're the only team in the country that is worse and has a smaller following than SHU. if you're going to go into Massachusetts, take Amherst.

Expect to see AIC on the UConn schedule in the future though. They were the first team UConn played as a varsity program, UConn has played them more than any other opponent and they opened Freitas, too. I think they have a few other "firsts" along the way and they've been on the schedule every year since 1960. I suspect they will continue to be there at least semi-regularly, Add to that that it is a close trip, give AIC a non-conference game with minimal travel costs and I can see them wanting to keep it.

 

[freescooter]

I've been a pretty vocal anti-Marshall guy in the past, but the reality is that UConn is going to get it's mouth kicked in the first few seasons at a minimum. Even if York was the coach, that's just the reality, they're gonna get smoked. So, with that in mind, let the guy who's been a good soldier get his few years in the sun, and then, later, you can respectfully move on. Retirement, whatever you want to call it. Bruce is a good guy.

But the truth is, letting him have a shot AND be the guy who takes the bullet of having a horrid team the first few years prevents you from having to go through the coaching search process twice, plus it prevents the program from being branded as having unrealistic expectations and scaring off good coaches who want to make the leap in their careers.

I think that's a pretty fair assessment of the situation, and one I agree with. You could bring in York and Parker as co-coaches, with Jack Kelly and Snooks Kelly as their assistants and UCONN still struggles mightily for the first few years. Bruce played at UConn, came back and coached there under pretty difficult circumstances with some success. I think he's earned this shot at the limelight for a few years, too.

 

[kingdobbs]

Expect to see AIC on the UConn schedule in the future though. They were the first team UConn played as a varsity program, UConn has played them more than any other opponent and they opened Freitas, too. I think they have a few other "firsts" along the way and they've been on the schedule every year since 1960. I suspect they will continue to be there at least semi-regularly, Add to that that it is a close trip, give AIC a non-conference game with minimal travel costs and I can see them wanting to keep it.

I would expect to see a few former AHA foes continue to be scheduled, given that UConn will now have twelve non-conference games to fill (two of which will, presumably, still be dedicated to the New Years' tourney). My guess is that the bulk of UConn's non-league games will still be in the "Eastern" region (i.e. New England plus New York/PA/NJ), and I expect these teams to be played more often than others.

Holy Cross/AIC - These two have been UConn foes as long as there's been UConn hockey.
Quinnipiac - It's hard to see us not renewing the rivalry with Quinny (even if the Heroes' Hat trophy is no longer a part of it) given that we'll both have a 22/12 con/non-con split.
Yale - They've been good friends to us while we've been D-I, being one of the few teams who's actually come to Freitas (and one of only two from a "Big 4" league that has given us a home date that isn't part of the New Years' tourney).
Union - Another team with 12 dates a year to fill, who's been a good partner (and the other of two Big 4 teams to play at Freitas outside the tournament).
Army - Very close by, and we've been 'scheduling rivals' in the past with them.
SHU - I have to imagine we'll give some games to our in-state "rival"; they've been the opponent for the two biggest 'event' games we've had in the last decade (the Freitas name-change dedication, and the Rentschler outdoor game last year).
RPI/Colgate - We've played them to some degree in the past, and they're another "12-game" schedule filler.
Penn State - Likely to have a lot of games free, and would certainly like non-con partners more their speed given that they'll be brutalized in the Big Whatever.

I can see us only ever playing home vs. AIC and SHU, playing 1 for 1s with Freitas as the home base for Yale, Union, Colgate, Penn State (likely to be 2-for-2, though), Army, and Holy Cross. For Quinnipiac, I can actually see us BOTH wanting to play at the Civic Center rather than our home arenas, and I can also see RPI thinking about playing us there rather than at Freitas (RPI has a Hartford campus just north of I-84, which could make a convenient staging ground for an alumni event that then shuttles or walks to the XL).

 

[freescooter]

I think that's a pretty good assemssment of things, though I suspect that Holy Cross and maybe Army are more like 2 for 1 deals, at least in time. while we might be a struggling HEA member, we'll be an HEA member and will probably want to play them at home more than on the road.

Just a note, but didn't Merrimack play us at home a couple of years ago? I know they've appeared in the tourney. But I thought they played another road game at Freitas as well.

 

[Dann]

psu has to be a big priority for warde to get on the schedule. need some b10 eyes where ever we can get them. give them a bball game if we have to. maybe a relationship develops over time and wala a fball game series like @uconn @ psu @nyc or something.

 

[freescooter]

Dan,
Penn State is coming to Freitas for a pair of games next season. Forget the dates. this will be their first varsity season and they are playing as an "independent." For what its worth, I think their first D1 game is against AIC. They may well lose it. Getting Penn State on the schedule isn't going to be all that hard. I think the B-10 Hockey conference will have something like 14 non-conference games. We'll have 12 based on the current HEA thinking. We'll be the low man in a big name conference. So will they. In both our interests to have an on-going relationship in hockey.

 

[Dann]

Dan,
Penn State is coming to Freitas for a pair of games next season. Forget the dates. this will be their first varsity season and they are playing as an "independent." For what its worth, I think their first D1 game is against AIC. They may well lose it. Getting Penn State on the schedule isn't going to be all that hard. I think the B-10 Hockey conference will have something like 14 non-conference games. We'll have 12 based on the current HEA thinking. We'll be the low man in a big name conference. So will they. In both our interests to have an on-going relationship in hockey.

thats great, i didn't know we already have them on the schedule. extend that for the next 10 years then! then work on other sports. the more we hang out with other big publics with big time fan bases, the faster we rise as a athletic dept and fan base.

 

[freescooter]

thats great, i didn't know we already have them on the schedule. extend that for the next 10 years then! then work on other sports. the more we hang out with other big publics with big time fan bases, the faster we rise as a athletic dept and fan base.

Remains to be seen how big time Penn State hockey is. They have never had a varsity team before this year and going into a league with Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State & Ohio State isn't going to be any picnic. And the thing about hockey that is a little different is that the powers aren't necessarily the big schools...clearly some are, like Michgan and Minnesota, but North Dakota, Boston University, Cornell among the Ivies, Denver, Colorado College all have pretty high profiles, too. Obivously Boston College, which is a middlin' program in other sports but just won the National Championship, I think their 3rd in 5 years or so. It is about hanging with the major players in the sport, more than the major players in any sports if you get what I mean. In some ways its like Lacrosse, where schools like Johns Hopkins are powers while not exactly being household names in other sports.

 

[Dann]

Remains to be seen how big time Penn State hockey is. They have never had a varsity team before this year and going into a league with Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State & Ohio State isn't going to be any picnic. And the thing about hockey that is a little different is that the powers aren't necessarily the big schools...clearly some are, like Michgan and Minnesota, but North Dakota, Boston University, Cornell among the Ivies, Denver, Colorado College all have pretty high profiles, too. Obivously Boston College, which is a middlin' program in other sports but just won the National Championship, I think their 3rd in 5 years or so. It is about hanging with the major players in the sport, more than the major players in any sports if you get what I mean. In some ways its like Lacrosse, where schools like Johns Hopkins are powers while not exactly being household names in other sports.

I hear ya, I just want Susan and Warde to take every possible advantage of any type of b10 game possible. I don't care if its flag football or basketball.

 

[kingdobbs]

I hear ya, I just want Susan and Warde to take every possible advantage of any type of b10 game possible. I don't care if its flag football or basketball.

Be careful what you wish for. Nothing says "Please respect us and notice us!" like going to Yost or Mariucci and getting pounded.

 

[freescooter]

hey, we'll be going to Conte and Agganis and getting pounded. Why not Yost and Mariucci? For what its worth, I think we've been to both, though maybe only 1. Not so sure we got pounded, but we did lose.

 

[kingdobbs]

hey, we'll be going to Conte and Agganis and getting pounded. Why not Yost and Mariucci?

Conte and Agganis are a 2-3 hour bus ride?

And we've been to Michigan. It was to be a two game set (for which I think we traded a basketball series or something), but we ended up giving one game to UAH and taking one of theirs with Bowling Green.

 

[freescooter]

Hey if we can go to Michigan and Mariuccci and in return they come here for games, that will be well worth it. I don't expect us to get clobbered every time, either. In the early part of this adventure, playing teams like that, and BC, BU and others, close, in exciting games, will be huge and part of the fun. This years games against Lowell, where we won there and lost in the UConn tournament close are the models for the first year. Exciting hockey, hanging in with a chance to win late. Of course, there will be times we get bombed, too.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Hey if we can go to Michigan and Mariuccci and in return they come here for games, that will be well worth it. I don't expect us to get clobbered every time, either. In the early part of this adventure, playing teams like that, and BC, BU and others, close, in exciting games, will be huge and part of the fun. This years games against Lowell, where we won there and lost in the UConn tournament close are the models for the first year. Exciting hockey, hanging in with a chance to win late. Of course, there will be times we get bombed, too.

UConn MIGHT get Michigan to come east, but unlikely. Minnesota won't, they rarely come east for anyone. This year they're going to Vermont, which is the first time they've come to the east coast for a regular season series since 2005 when they played at BU. The western teams generally don't like coming east, Michigan being one of a small handful of exceptions.

 

[freescooter]

UConn MIGHT get Michigan to come east, but unlikely. Minnesota won't, they rarely come east for anyone. This year they're going to Vermont, which is the first time they've come to the east coast for a regular season series since 2005 when they played at BU. The western teams generally don't like coming east, Michigan being one of a small handful of exceptions.

In the new conference era, I'm not so sure thase rules will apply. the new set up seems to be tailor made for 12-14 non-conference games rather than 6 or 7. I mean how many times can a 6 team league play each other? Plus with the B-10 Hockey League, you won't see on-conference games against Big 10 bretheren in the CCHA, obviously. Not to say they'll come running for a chance to play in Hartford or Storrs, just that I suspect the old rules will be less applicable in the future.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Maybe a bit less so, but you can also expect to see a lot of the B10 teams playing their old rivals from the WCHA and CCHA. MN has already said they'll continue playing North Dakota, and I would suspect DU and CC will be on a regular rotation as well. Plus, Minny will be under a lot of pressure to play the other state schools from MN (St. Cloud, Mankato, and Bemidji) since they left them behind for the B1G. I would also expect to see Notre Dame playing a bunch of B1G teams. MN is like the Florida football of hockey, they rarely if ever play anyone OOC on the road, they think they can just get everyone to play on their home ice. Most fans are shocked they'd even consider playing in Burlington. It would certainly be possible to see some of the lower end Nacho league teams coming to CT, and definitely some of the new WCHA programs, which would still be fairly good gets for UConn in their early stages. Getting Penn State would be doable most likely since the program likely won't be terribly good for a while. I would also expect to see a bunch of ECAC teams, probably RPI, Yale, and QU, and maybe even Cornell. If Cornell came, there likely would be more Cornell fans in the rink than UConn fans.

 

[kingdobbs]

It would certainly be possible to see some of the lower end Nacho league teams coming to CT, and definitely some of the new WCHA programs, which would still be fairly good gets for UConn in their early stages.

I think this is definitely doable. Someone like Bowling Green or Lake State would make for a good, if not nationally exciting, 2-year series as we develop. Any of the Minnesota teams gets us exposure into those Midwest recruiting grounds (though I doubt we'll be beating any of them to the blue chippers there any time soon). The question is, though, as strapped for cash as some of them may become with the dynamiting of the old Western leagues, will they want to make the trip for seemingly less benefit than staying regional?

Also, an interesting possibility: If Hockey East wants to preserve home and homes (i.e. everyone plays every team once home and once away) with the new schedule, the league can try and arrange "travel partner" deals with other Midwestern teams near Notre Dame, so that when, say, UConn and UMass-Amherst go out to play Notre Dame, they switch off with someone like Miami, Bowling Green, Western Michigan, etc. for non-con games. Likewise, for Notre Dame's trips east, they can bring someone along for the ride for some quality (if not always elite quality) non-cons there. I don't see the league actually doing it, however, but it'd be pretty cool to see.

Getting Penn State would be doable most likely since the program likely won't be terribly good for a while. I would also expect to see a bunch of ECAC teams, probably RPI, Yale, and QU, and maybe even Cornell. If Cornell came, there likely would be more Cornell fans in the rink than UConn fans.

Cornell's another team I would see saying, "Hartford-only" to us. And given how well they tend to draw for road events, I can't say the XL managers saying "no".

 

[freescooter]

Maybe a bit less so, but you can also expect to see a lot of the B10 teams playing their old rivals from the WCHA and CCHA. MN has already said they'll continue playing North Dakota, and I would suspect DU and CC will be on a regular rotation as well. Plus, Minny will be under a lot of pressure to play the other state schools from MN (St. Cloud, Mankato, and Bemidji) since they left them behind for the B1G. I would also expect to see Notre Dame playing a bunch of B1G teams. MN is like the Florida football of hockey, they rarely if ever play anyone OOC on the road, they think they can just get everyone to play on their home ice. Most fans are shocked they'd even consider playing in Burlington. It would certainly be possible to see some of the lower end Nacho league teams coming to CT, and definitely some of the new WCHA programs, which would still be fairly good gets for UConn in their early stages. Getting Penn State would be doable most likely since the program likely won't be terribly good for a while. I would also expect to see a bunch of ECAC teams, probably RPI, Yale, and QU, and maybe even Cornell. If Cornell came, there likely would be more Cornell fans in the rink than UConn fans.

I don't disagree with much of that. For UConn the level of competition is going to move up quite significantly, even with mid-lower level Nacho teams and ECAC members. We've had a longstanding relationship with Union, which I imagine will continue, too. Obviously Quinipiac and Yale make sense for all concerned. It is always good to have a road game that doesn't require you to travel very far. Plus, I think if you look at who they have brought in for the UConn tournament, you'll probably see some of those teams, too on occassion.

 

[huskymedic]

Since we are talking abot scheduling... #NotreDame hockey to face Miami (OH) at Soldier Field in February, #Wisconsin vs. #Minnesota in Game 2. Trib post: http://trib.in/MdqSZz

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Since we are talking abot scheduling... #NotreDame hockey to face Miami (OH) at Soldier Field in February, #Wisconsin vs. #Minnesota in Game 2. Trib post: http://trib.in/MdqSZz

Yeah, these outdoor games are going nuts, there's way too many of them. The Fenway games last year were largely a mess. BC-Northeastern was completely empty past the right field foul pole, and the Harvard-Union game drew maybe 2-3K. I'm not sure how well that will sell since those two matchups are pretty good, but none are in the team's hometown, so it'll be tough to sell 60K seats. They really need to stop doing these gimmick games multiple times a year.

 

[kingdobbs]

I'll say the one benefit of expansion (which it is safe to say 99% of BU & BC fans were against), is the ability to schedule more quality OOC games.

An ability that was, frankly, sorely needed in men's ice hockey. Schedules were way too insular across the board; we'll now be going from basically 7 teams having more than 7 non-conference games to more than 40 having at least 12 (depending on what AHA does, although I'm not sanguine they'll contract their conference schedule knowing it will reduce the number of home dates guaranteed to each team).

 

[freescooter]

An ability that was, frankly, sorely needed in men's ice hockey. Schedules were way too insular across the board; we'll now be going from basically 7 teams having more than 7 non-conference games to more than 40 having at least 12 (depending on what AHA does, although I'm not sanguine they'll contract their conference schedule knowing it will reduce the number of home dates guaranteed to each team).

I completely agree with you guys. Way too many conference games. I do think the new model, regardless of how you feel about Hockey East going to 12 teams, opens the way for some really good intersectional games. Whether its Minnesota at BC or BU at North Dakota or what ever else, when you have 12-14 games to schedule, you are going to look much more widely and consider things you wouldn't when you only have 6-7. As for Atlantic Hockey, I wouldn't be surprised to see them try and figure out how to expand a little bit. If they stay at 11 teams, maybe they end up with 10 spots. But as you point out, home games is a big issue for them. It is costly to always go on the road, to say nothing of the fact that you are usually at a disadvantage competetively. Realistically how many teams from the major conferences are going to the JAR or Olympic Sports? I realize it happens on occassion, but its rare. Bentely has 1 non-conference home game this year, Alabama-Huntsville. AIC has 2, Huntsville again, and Union. Penn State is willing to travel right now and Huntsville pretty much has to take whatever games they can get, which has helped the AHA land a few more home games than usual, but whether that lasts is questionable.