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What do those rules have to do with education? NOTHING.
Here we go ...
- Thread starter Inyatkin
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What do those rules have to do with education? NOTHING.
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You are aware UConn is on probation for cheating right now. But go ahead and tell yourself that has no bearing on UConn's efforts to get the ban waived.
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Your post is so full of wrong one can't even begin to address it.
MattMang23
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Drank a ton at lacrosse house in Carriage.
jleves
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Oh relax - he simply made the point that lots of high profile programs have been banned from the tourny for one year and bounced back. He was being supportive. Fact is we are on probation and we are facing a tourny ban unless something changes. Doesn't matter if the two are unrelated, they are both relevant. Both are a negative influence on the program from anyone looking in who isn't better versed in the details like a few hundred of us here.
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It sounds like you are saying that you don't want to see any rules. Maybe we could designate scholarship athletes as "resident athletes" instead of students and they wouldn't even be required to go to class. Instead of a degree they could get a athletic participation certificate. Graduation means you fullfilled the academic requirements to earn a degree. I think that has a lot to do with academics.
Nobody is out to screw us, we did it to ourselves.
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Looks like some of us have reached #5 while some of us are still at earlier stages.
The stages, popularly known by the acronym DABDA, include:[2]
Denial — "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me."
Denial is usually only a temporary defense for the individual. This feeling is generally replaced with heightened awareness of possessions and individuals that will be left behind after death. Denial can be conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, or the reality of the situation. Denial is a defense mechanism and some people can become locked in this stage.
Anger — "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; '"Who is to blame?"
Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to care for due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy.
Bargaining — "I'll do anything for a few more years."; "I will give my life savings if..."
The third stage involves the hope that the individual can somehow postpone or delay death. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made with a higher power in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. Psychologically, the individual is saying, "I understand I will die, but if I could just do something to buy more time..."
Depression — "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die soon so what's the point... What's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"
During the fourth stage, the dying person begins to understand the certainty of death. Because of this, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time crying and grieving. This process allows the dying person to disconnect from things of love and affection. It is not recommended to attempt to cheer up an individual who is in this stage. It is an important time for grieving that must be processed.
Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."
In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with their mortality, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event.
The stages, popularly known by the acronym DABDA, include:[2]
Denial — "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me."
Denial is usually only a temporary defense for the individual. This feeling is generally replaced with heightened awareness of possessions and individuals that will be left behind after death. Denial can be conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, or the reality of the situation. Denial is a defense mechanism and some people can become locked in this stage.
Anger — "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; '"Who is to blame?"
Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to care for due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy.
Bargaining — "I'll do anything for a few more years."; "I will give my life savings if..."
The third stage involves the hope that the individual can somehow postpone or delay death. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made with a higher power in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. Psychologically, the individual is saying, "I understand I will die, but if I could just do something to buy more time..."
Depression — "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die soon so what's the point... What's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"
During the fourth stage, the dying person begins to understand the certainty of death. Because of this, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time crying and grieving. This process allows the dying person to disconnect from things of love and affection. It is not recommended to attempt to cheer up an individual who is in this stage. It is an important time for grieving that must be processed.
Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."
In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with their mortality, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event.
UCweCONN
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Few top athletes these days go to school planning on being there four years. The NCAA needs a reality check or to make an agreement with the pro leagues that kids have to be three years memoved from high school to play in the pros. Fortunately, since this was on CNN, I doubt many saw it...
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Didn't say that.
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Disagree totally. UConn should not accept this ban as though they were guilty of cheating. They should fight it, regardless of getting in trouble for text messages.
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Calhoun may or may not have known, but the program did cheat and was caught doing so. Was the rule stupid? Of course, and while others surely broke the same rule, we have to deal with the consequences, and one of those consequences is a tainted image which doesn't help when the NCAA is throwing out this APR bullsiht.
Did transfers count against the graduation rate. Based on caws' breakdown, which seemed mostly accurate to me, it seems that if you come to UCONN you either transfer, go pro, graduate or do whatever Dove did. Not the end of the world IMO.
Did transfers count against the graduation rate. Based on caws' breakdown, which seemed mostly accurate to me, it seems that if you come to UCONN you either transfer, go pro, graduate or do whatever Dove did. Not the end of the world IMO.
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I believe that transfers count and entering the NBA draft doesn't otherwise Kentucky would be in deep dodo.
The coaching staff and thier recruiting decisions played a big part in this by signing kids that had little chance of getting PT. It is one thing to sign a Jamal Coombs-McDaniel and have him transfer but there have been too many Trice's who were not major Div. 1 players. The transfers buried us.
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Falling afoul of APR isn't cheating.
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What's the difference though between Beverly and Trice?
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Of course not. But being on probation for cheating, however minor the transgressions were, does the school no favors in this public image battle, which is aiding the NCAA while they try to pull a fast one and ban us from the tourney.
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That's one of the silly things. A large reason the school is suffering from the APR nonsense and the low graduation rate is because of poor recruiting.
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Still doesn't mean you have to meekly accept it.
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Venting on a message board does nothing to help, does it? We both understand the situation and realize it is completely BS, but what can you do other than "meekly" accepting it?
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Argh, I was referring to the initial post I responded to, from which this part of the discussion derives. Accept that the NCAA is going to screw you as they have others because you're already on probation.
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Guys who leave to go pro early don't count against the graduation rate, but guys who transfer do I believe.
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Did any of those guys graduate from the schools they transferred to?
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The school is doing everything it can to fight the ban. Everyone knows this, doesn't mean the NCAA is going to be reasonable. They never seem to be reasonable.
They seem to want to make UConn the poster child for the new emphasis on graduation rates. Everyone knows this is grandstanding to make the NCAA look like they are doing something about student athletes being real students. Fair or unfair it seems unlikely the NCAA will reverse its position.
A one year ban will not ruin the program; Syracuse was banned for 1993, made the tournament the next 3 years in a row, making it to the Final Four in 1996.
They seem to want to make UConn the poster child for the new emphasis on graduation rates. Everyone knows this is grandstanding to make the NCAA look like they are doing something about student athletes being real students. Fair or unfair it seems unlikely the NCAA will reverse its position.
A one year ban will not ruin the program; Syracuse was banned for 1993, made the tournament the next 3 years in a row, making it to the Final Four in 1996.
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Everybody counts, when you leave you have to be in good academic standing, that's all it is. If a guy leaves and doesn't finish the semester, gets all or I's, it hurts the APR. It doesn't matter why they leave.
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Good question.
Through quick google searches, it appears that Eaves and Marcus Johnson did by looking at their respective school websites.
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I know about the APR. I'm saying that I think transfers count towards graduation rates.
UConn only had 9 guys who have stayed for 4 years out of high school. Considering that Beverly and Austrie graduated, along with Okafor and probably Walker, it would be hard for UConn to have a 14% graduation rate for black basketball played if they didn't count transfers.
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The reason why transfers are counted as non-graduates in grad rate has little to do with academics. Grad rates are an assessment of the relative financial health of the schools themselves. This is why transfers are counted as non-grads. Because the financial health of a school is tied in many ways to its alumni. That's why grad rate is relevant, but only as an internal measure. Academically, the relevance of a grad rate is near zero precisely because the grad rate itself is almost always tied to the characteristics of the demographic (i.e. student income, financial aid, working hours, etc.). Granted, there are many dysfunctional schools out there that are not monitoring students efficiently, but for the most part, the rate should not diverge far from national means. Student parental income will be a much bigger factor in determining grad rates than anything else.
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This whole nonsense is essentially a punishment for being a transfer heavy-school. It's not surprising at all that Arizona has a worse graduation rate than us and IU and Michigan are the ones mentioned after us. All three of those schools have had a ton of transfers the last few years but that's in part to coaching changes and rebuilding projects.
The NCAA can spin this situation in whichever way they choose and right now they're spinning it in the worst and least-logical way possible. They're ignoring anything circumstantial or looking further into the situation. If a kid withdraws from school in early October to transfer they get all in UConn's side yet their own personal grades do not reflect those when they enroll in their next school. Could the NCAA be an dumber?
The NCAA can spin this situation in whichever way they choose and right now they're spinning it in the worst and least-logical way possible. They're ignoring anything circumstantial or looking further into the situation. If a kid withdraws from school in early October to transfer they get all in UConn's side yet their own personal grades do not reflect those when they enroll in their next school. Could the NCAA be an dumber?
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Very little difference Beverly/Trice but if you are going to recruit borderline Div 1 players like them you can expect transfers and transfers kill the APR. Not a wise choice if your APR is already in trouble.Chalk it up to poor evaluation or poor strategy.Either way the coaching staff has to take the responsibility.
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^^ That's why retroactively enforcing the APR is idiotic. If these rules were in place it very may well have affected the recruiting decisions back then. We could have just kept a scholarship instead of throwing one out to a mid-major prospect that had sliver of hope of being a diamond in the rough but would likely transfer.
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