Here is the tricky part of the NBE deal

[UConnSportsGuy]

If the rumors of a huge NBC offer are true, then they are definately going to want a very long GOR TV rights for the league. They are not going to want to give this huge contract and then find out 2 years in that UConn/UL/Rutgers leave for another conference and be stuck paying huge money for a very week conference. So this huge deal may be contingent on all of the BE signing a long term (20 year?) GOR for TV.

But here is the tricky part....do you sign that GOR if you are UConn/Rutgers/UL? Do you want to commit to a conference with Memphis, Temple, etc forever and be forced to turn down a potential invitation from the B1G if the realignment wheels turn in the right way (I know...not likely). But could you imagine if we sign this deal now and get a B1G invite in 5 years but have no way to accept the offer?!

This may be the tricky situation Herbst is in at this point. The only way you are going to get a huge contract is a long term commitment to the current league with a GOR--which eliminates any possibility of changing conferences.

I guess this is why Herbst makes the big money to make these decisions...tough call.

 

[Dann]

i commit to the gor to get the deal if its really a lot of $$. when i get invited to the b10/acc/b12 i then take all the $$ that this great contract got me and buy out of the gor.

 

[Carl Spackler]

i commit to the gor to get the deal if its really a lot of $$. when i get invited to the b10/acc/b12 i then take all the $$ that this great contract got me and buy out of the gor.

Granting rights to whom? This is getting out of hand. It's implicit in any contract, that tiers of broadcasting rights are being turned over to the Big East Conference for negotiations. The big east conference is the middle man, as is any conference entity, and turning over rights is implicit. Otherwise schools would all be doing what Notre Dame, Navy and BYU have done and negotiate television broadcasting rights on their own.

The concept of granting rights of all broadcasting to a conference leadership is a formality that is nothing more than a symbolic gesture of solidarity, internally within a conference, got nothign to do with the broadcasting company. I would say, that if a conference is need of something like that from it's members - that's a BAD sign.

If a conference can't fulfill it's contractual obligations for broadcasting - it's in default of the ENTIRE contract - the broadcasting company basically can void the contract and start over.

See actions of Chuck Neinas - Big X11 conference - 2011. Four programs gone, in less than two years. Everythign Neinas pushed through for the big 12, forcing Texas and Oklahoma to have to travel all of their big12 conference sports in and out of Morgantown? Was to make sure the conference didn't default on the existing Fox TV deal, and were able to get into a position for negotiations to bring the contract up to market value. Boy, those people down in TExas are going to really love having WVU - sarcasm - that's not going to turn out well. But neinas got the job he needed to get done, done. Oliver Luck was all too willing a pawn.

it's very important, I think, that all big east schools retain their lower tier broadcasting rights, to farm out locally as they please. I think that tier 1 and tier 2 rights, are going to be sold at market price, and third tier rights as well, but the conference isn't going to be the middle man for schools on that one.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

The concept of granting rights of all broadcasting to a conference leadership is a formality that is nothing more than a symbolic gesture of solidarity, internally within a conference, got nothign to do with the broadcasting company.

I am talking about granting your TV rights to the conference for the next 25 years. So if you decide to leave the conference in 5 years, you can leave....but the Big East has the rights to all of your games and media revenue during those 20 years. In other words, you cannot leave.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I am talking about granting your TV rights to the conference for the next 25 years. So if you decide to leave the conference in 5 years, you can leave....but the Big East has the rights to all of your games and media revenue during those 20 years. In other words, you cannot leave.

I think that if a TV negotiator were to come to the table with a point of interest like that to discuss, he/she would get laughed out of the room, and both sides would go get a snack, and come back in 15 minutes and start over and pretend it never happened, and whoever brought it up, wouldn't be involved in discussion anymore.

I understand what you're getting at, but understand that it's implicit in any broadcasting contract that rights are being turned over. Haven't we learned anything? A contract like that, if signed by UConn tomorrow with the Big East, could easily be broken in 2 years. There woudl be a dollar value attached, and that's that.

The most important thing, as it always has been, and always will be - for a conference. Is scheduling. Scheduling. All the exposure that can be had, all the income revenue through broadcasting, exposure, marketing, etc. etc......scheduling.

A grant of media rights, is a concept that is nothing more than a symbolic gesture of solidarity, internally, for a conference - it means nothing to a media company. The media company doesn't give a about how the conference chooses to divide up the checks they cut. I say again, that if a conferenc eleadership is trying to demand something like that from it's membership, that's a BAD sign. That's a sign of lack of solidarity, rather than solidarity.

The media contracts are going to specify for games on TV. Period. when, where, who, how it goes out on air, and when. Scheduling.

For too long, the big east, let ESPN have free reign as to when, how, and where those games would be played and broadcasted.

That needs to change. BAsketball is a huge power player in this negotiation, and will be able to swing things in a big way, if necessary.

Football needs to be easily accessible, in local primetime viewing windows across all 4 time zones. That's what the entire league is built on right now. That's the weakness in the negotiation, because the networks know it, that the value goes down if that's not possible to do, but it's a highly desrieabl thing to be able to do for a broadcasting company at the same time.

As for rights. I will be surprised if it turns out that the entire conference grants all rights to a single media outlet iike the ACC did with ESPN. It puts a major restriction on the additional income that a university can get, based on their local demographics. NBC would have to really come up with some kind of plan, to land that. Money won't do it. BAsketball, football, all of the other sports, need to be accessible on TV to the target audiences.

 

[mattp]

i can't imagine they'd expect anyone to grant them for more than 10 years. NBC may not be around in 25 years. that being said, if we do grant them for 10 years, and get a B1G offer in five years, we'll take the B1G offer and buy out of our TV contract. there's no way a TV contract can prevent us from leaving the conference any more than our 2 year required notice to leave the BE kept WVU from leaving with one summer notice

 

[HuskyHawk]

A formal grant of rights is different than the grant of rights that naturally comes from a school's membership in the conference. As proposed for the Big XII anyway, it extends beyond membership and is separate from it. I don't believe any media company will be a position to insist on such a grant of rights, but in response to the original question, I think we would refuse any contractual provision that would put a meaningful restriction on our ability to leave the BE. Paying the $5M, ok. Beyond that? I doubt it.

 

[observer]

Strong conferences do not need GORs to stay together; weak ones do. Big12 which has a GOR and the NBE are the only conferences that need a GOR.

 

[jrazz12]

Strong conferences do not need GORs to stay together; weak ones do. Big12 which has a GOR and the NBE are the only conferences that need a GOR.

D'Oh? Is that right dipsh1t?

"The Big Ten and Pac-12 members have signed grants of rights, which basically give all of the television rights from each university’s sports to the conference for a specified number of years. If a member switches conferences, the rights cannot be transferred.
The Big Ten has had this arrangement since 1988, the year before Commissioner Jim Delany arrived. The Pac-12 members did so, soon after Scott took office.
In a phone interview on Friday, Delany said the Big Ten had extended the grant of rights in 2007 for either 20 or 25 years. That he could not remember says a lot about how secure the league is. When the Big 12 situation is settled, it will make sense for the A.C.C. and the Big East to push their members to make such a commitment."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/s...real-revenue-sharing.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

 

[UConnDan97]

D'Oh? Is that right dipsh1t?

"The Big Ten and Pac-12 members have signed grants of rights, which basically give all of the television rights from each university’s sports to the conference for a specified number of years. If a member switches conferences, the rights cannot be transferred.
The Big Ten has had this arrangement since 1988, the year before Commissioner Jim Delany arrived. The Pac-12 members did so, soon after Scott took office.
In a phone interview on Friday, Delany said the Big Ten had extended the grant of rights in 2007 for either 20 or 25 years. That he could not remember says a lot about how secure the league is. When the Big 12 situation is settled, it will make sense for the A.C.C. and the Big East to push their members to make such a commitment."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/s...real-revenue-sharing.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Well, yeah, but besides the Big12, the Big10, the PAC12, and the Big East, can you name another major conference that would need a GOR?? Yeah, I didn't think so!!

You were right, that poster is a dipsh!t...

 

[coachcap]

One thing about Observer: He never let facts get in the way of a good rant. But then, he's a fan of the Thunder Chickens, so would you expect anything different?

 

[freescooter]

the reality is that a grant of rights can eventually be bought out if necessary. Just like a 27 month notice requirement. What it comes down to is that if a school wants to leave it will leave. No matter what arrangement is made, if it is worth it to leave, there will ultimately be an accommodation that lets the school that wants to leave go.

 

[Carl Spackler]

D'Oh? Is that right dipsh1t?

"The Big Ten and Pac-12 members have signed grants of rights, which basically give all of the television rights from each university’s sports to the conference for a specified number of years. If a member switches conferences, the rights cannot be transferred.
The Big Ten has had this arrangement since 1988, the year before Commissioner Jim Delany arrived. The Pac-12 members did so, soon after Scott took office.
In a phone interview on Friday, Delany said the Big Ten had extended the grant of rights in 2007 for either 20 or 25 years. That he could not remember says a lot about how secure the league is. When the Big 12 situation is settled, it will make sense for the A.C.C. and the Big East to push their members to make such a commitment."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/s...real-revenue-sharing.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

I will be very surprised if the big east conference membership agrees to such a thing PRIOR to obtaining a deal, and I simply can't imagine a TV exec putting it out there on the table to start with, IMO, not a very good thing to put out there to start with on their end for negotiations - but whatever - w'ere just bullsh*tters on a internet site talking anyway.

It's possible that some kind of solidarity internal symbolic sign, very well may come to play into the closing of a deal, such that to get the deal done, the conference would need to present that kind of agreement, at least for the duration of the contract. I doubt if it would look like other grant of rights situations.

BUt the whole concept, exists, as a symbolic method of indicating solidarity internally in a conference, when the landscape of intercollegiate athleitcs conferences was irreversibly destabilized in the mid 1980s. THe big 10, is the most solid conference in the current era, because they recognized the need for recognizing, monitorging and maintaining internal solidarity, as soon as the supreme court decision came down in Oklahoma/Georgia v. NCAA. They were looking at all of this in the late 1980s, PRIOR to Penn STate even joining - Penn state was still looking to get into the big east conference at the time.

The latest round of movement around television money (and it wasn't the first time, at all) in the past few years, has shown, that contracts, something like a grant of rights, aren't worth the paper they're printed on. That would get thrown out in a court, I think, no judge is going to hold an entire university hostage like that, because of a contract like that if a party trully wants out.

The only thing at this point, that might have teeth, is the monetary exit fee penalty for leaving a conference while an active media contract is in place, being astronomical.

That - you might see the Big East have to swallow. Some kind of incredible fee to pay, if a university leaves the conference while whatever media deal gets sign, is active, until it runs out.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Given what has happened with the Big 12, how can anyone say a GOR is out of the question.
If UofL or Uconn leave, this league is dead. Both schools have openly stated they are looking for better opportunities.
And we've seen example after example of schools trying to get out of exit fees.

And you think NBC is going to pay top dollar for a league that might be substantially different 5 years into the deal? If there is no GOR, the deal is for less than what ESPN offered last year.

 

[Carl Spackler]

A formal grant of rights is different than the grant of rights that naturally comes from a school's membership in the conference. As proposed for the Big XII anyway, it extends beyond membership and is separate from it. I don't believe any media company will be a position to insist on such a grant of rights, but in response to the original question, I think we would refuse any contractual provision that would put a meaningful restriction on our ability to leave the BE. Paying the $5M, ok. Beyond that? I doubt it.

I agree. But I think that if any other company, other than ESPN lands a deal, the entire reason they're doing it, is to get a slice of the intercollegiate pie, that ESPN, almost monopolizes. To be able to ratchet up the carrier fee charges a little bit, take a piece of the cake, whatever corny analogy you want to use. ESPN currently collects over $8 a month from ever single television household in the country - PER MONTH. It's ridiculous. All predictable, and ridiculous, which is why Disney bought ESPN.

But the mouse is ruining ESPN, and if the profit engine starts to run low on gas, the mouse will scrap it and move on to another source. The Big EAst conference isn't enough to provide significant competition to ESPN in the short or long term. But the Big East conference, with potential to reach 32 million households with live sports programming, can provide a major foothold, around which growth can occur.

Major League Baseball? Now that can create a dent.......

As for the big east, the concept of a long term grant of media rights beyond the exact same terms of whatever media contract is signed, is ridiculous. I think it's a possibility that the conference will need to jack up the exit fee, to some hefty, hefty, exit fees for leaving the conference, while the contract terms are active - to get a deal done with any company other than ESPN.

ESPN could care less about a granting of rights by the Big East conference, I think. I think a GOR is somethign they would have demanded from the prior leadership of the conference, and the prior leadership would have said - sure, we'll go get it from the football schools.

Not anymore.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Given what has happened with the Big 12, how can anyone say a GOR is out of the question.
If UofL or Uconn leave, this league is dead. Both schools have openly stated they are looking for better opportunities.
And we've seen example after example of schools trying to get out of exit fees.

And you think NBC is going to pay top dollar for a league that might be substantially different 5 years into the deal? If there is no GOR, the deal is for less than what ESPN offered last year.

But, dont' you see, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The entire concept of a grant of rights, ahs become meaningless. I can see a company that is really working hard to get a slice of what ESPN has got, looking for some kind of internal solidarity contract from the Big East, to get a deal done. That makes sense, but it's not going to be a deal breaker.

Take your example, if in 5 years, the big east conference defaults on it's conference arrangements with X media company, X media company simply breaks off the contract, and doesn't give a dime more (see what I did there?)......not a dime.

I will say, that if X media company (not the four letter), has something like that happen to them in a few years, and the four letter giant is going to get some federal investigations into whatever they can find regarding illegal business activity crawling up their butts.

Also - keep in mind that all the other major conferences are already locked into long term contracts, with escalation clauses in there as well, for value. What's the motivation for any other conference to change any of that?

THere is only one - Notre Dame, and Notre Dame is tied to the big east.

 

[CL82]

GOR protects the conference, a no change clause protects the network. In essence they say, here's our deal with your conference with the following members, if that changes, we reserve the right to renegotiate the deal. Now if a TV deal has that and I'm a university president that isn't particularly desirable on the open market, I might push for a GOR to protect me. One can argue, however, that if a university isn't particularly desireable on the open market, then they aren't the ones bringing the value to the TV contract in first place. So a name program might tell them to GPSUYA, in university speak of course. It will be an interesting six months.

BTW, I may have to un-ignore Observer. It makes it harder to follow these threads.

 

[Carl Spackler]

GOR protects the conference, a no change clause protects the network. In essence they say, here's our deal with your conference with the following members, if that changes, we reserve the right to renegotiate the deal. Now if a TV deal has that and I'm a university president that isn't particularly desirable on the open market, I might push for a GOR to protect me. One can argue, however, that if a university isn't particularly desireable on the open market, then they aren't the ones bringing the value to the TV contract in first place. So a name program might tell them to GPSUYA, in university speak of course. It will be an interesting six months.

BTW, I may have to un-ignore Observer. It makes it harder to follow these threads.

Said better than I have. The simple point I'm trying to make, is that given the events of the past two decades, more specifically the past 4 years, the concept of a binding contract among entire universities revolving around media rights deals and conference affiliations and stuff like that - well - there's nothing binding about them.

It's about the benjamins now, purely. If it's going to be something that's got to be on the table? I'd prefer to simply see it laid out as such, rather than have the legal hoops and bells and whistles of a granting of media rights. The time for that has passed.

You want to leave the conference while a media deal is in place? X amount of millions is what it costs on top of the existing exit fee, unless you arrange for a different univeristy to take your place, of which the rest of membership agrees upon. Period.

 

[pj]

You can be sure that termination provisions for schools and networks and conferences will be half or more of the contract. Everyone has seen conference realignment, and the contract will spell out what happens in any likely scenario.

TV rights buyers will be protected, whether the provision is a GoR or something else.

 

[Marty Jackson]

But, dont' you see, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The entire concept of a grant of rights, ahs become meaningless. I can see a company that is really working hard to get a slice of what ESPN has got, looking for some kind of internal solidarity contract from the Big East, to get a deal done. That makes sense, but it's not going to be a deal breaker.

Take your example, if in 5 years, the big east conference defaults on it's conference arrangements with X media company, X media company simply breaks off the contract, and doesn't give a dime more (see what I did there?)......not a dime.

I will say, that if X media company (not the four letter), has something like that happen to them in a few years, and the four letter giant is going to get some federal investigations into whatever they can find regarding illegal business activity crawling up their butts.

Also - keep in mind that all the other major conferences are already locked into long term contracts, with escalation clauses in there as well, for value. What's the motivation for any other conference to change any of that?

THere is only one - Notre Dame, and Notre Dame is tied to the big east.

It wasn't long ago the Big12 was dead. Now they've all signed a GOR and suddenly they are the most stable of conferences. ESpn isn't giving them $20M+ if Texas or OK can leave.
That same logic can be applied to the BE.

That's all I'm saying. Neither NBC nor ESPN will sign a long term deal if Uconn, UofL, or even Rutgers, Houston, or Cincy can readily leave. There will always be a price but I guarantee no school is leaving more than a year or two early. The price would be too steep.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

GOR protects the conference, a no change clause protects the network. In essence they say, here's our deal with your conference with the following members, if that changes, we reserve the right to renegotiate the deal. Now if a TV deal has that and I'm a university president that isn't particularly desirable on the open market, I might push for a GOR to protect me. One can argue, however, that if a university isn't particularly desireable on the open market, then they aren't the ones bringing the value to the TV contract in first place. So a name program might tell them to GPSUYA, in university speak of course. It will be an interesting six months.

BTW, I may have to un-ignore Observer. It makes it harder to follow these threads.

Wrong. NBC is going to have to make major investments in staff, equipment and marketing to promote the Big East. They won't do any of that unless they have assurances that membership will be stable going forward. There is a high probability they are going to ask for a Grant of Rights, and it is almost a certainty that the Big East schools will grant it.

You can't buy yourself out of a GOR. Once signed, the schools are locked in until it expires.

Everyone who things that UConn should sabotage a big NBC contract because it may get invited to the Big 10 at some point should not be allowed to post any more. The Big East got to this point because every school thought it would be the one with a life raft, and it turned out only TCU and WVU really had one. If Syracuse and Pitt had just held tight, I am confident the Big East would have gotten a deal that would have paid each football school at least $20 million a year. They jumped, got a crappy deal from the ACC, and the Big East deal will be barely acceptable considering the market.

The idea that the schools should tell NBC to buzz off because they may get an offer from the Big 10 is idiotic. Here is what will happen if there is no GOR:

- NBC decides that the Big East schools are not serious about staying together, decides to pass on college sports, walks away from the table. CBS and Turner never gets close for the same reason.

- As the only bidder, ESPN offers the football schools a low ball contract of up to $5MM a year, contingent on ratings, advertising and a bunch of other performance factors.

- ESPN notifies the other leagues that it will not provide financial support for any further raids of the Big East, since it is cheaper for ESPN to pay schools through the Big East than it is through the Big 12 or ACC.

- If, and this is a big if, the Big 10 decides to add a Big East school, it will be as a junior member at a significantly reduced payout (the Big 10 allegedly had discussions a couple of years ago of doing this with Rutgers).

- With the reduced revenue, all the quality coaches leave, and it is difficult to replace them with anything other than second tier assistants, since even coaches from CUSA, MWC and better MAC schools will be reluctant to go to a Big East school.

- The Big East athletic programs go into a slow but steady decline, making them even less attractive to other leagues.

But hey, hold out for that Big 10 offer. That is a great strategy.

If NBC wants a GOR, the Big East schools give NBC a GOR.

 

[CL82]

Wrong. NBC is going to have to make major investments in staff, equipment and marketing to promote the Big East. They won't do any of that unless they have assurances that membership will be stable going forward. There is a high probability they are going to ask for a Grant of Rights, and it is almost a certainty that the Big East schools will grant it. To whom do you think the is GoR going to be granted? NBC? Not happening.

You can't buy yourself out of a GOR. Once signed, the schools are locked in until it expires. 1. Who said that you could? 2. You can "buy your way" (meaning the parties can agree to a cash settlement in lieu of performance) out of pretty much anything - it is just a question of whether the price is worth it.

Everyone who things that UConn should sabotage a big NBC contract because it may get invited to the Big 10 at some point should not be allowed to post any more. Well we are in agreement here because I far as I can tell you are the only one who has suggested it. May we count on your restraint? The Big East got to this point because every school thought it would be the one with a life raft, and it turned out only TCU and WVU really had one. If Syracuse and Pitt had just held tight, I am confident the Big East would have gotten a deal that would have paid each football school at least $20 million a year. Maybe, I do agree that Cuse and Pitt blinked. They jumped, got a crappy deal from the ACC, and the Big East deal will be barely acceptable considering the market. We'll see.

The idea that the schools should tell NBC to buzz off because they may get an offer from the Big 10 is idiotic. And who again, besides you, is suggesting that? Here is what will happen if there is no GOR:

- NBC decides that the Big East schools are not serious about staying together, decides to pass on college sports, walks away from the table. And so they give up on business plan and the significant investment they made to enter that market? Unlikely. The beauty of going with NBC is we need each other. If we work together we'll prosper. CBS and Turner never gets close for the same reason. CBS and Turner have not positioned themselves to compete with ESPN. NBC has. CBS will buy a few marquis games for their broadcast network but they aren't players in this deal, except as a partner with ESPN, NBC or Fox.

- As the only bidder, ESPN offers the football schools a low ball contract of up to $5MM a year, contingent on ratings, advertising and a bunch of other performance factors. No point in talking about numbers you pull out of your butt.

- ESPN notifies the other leagues that it will not provide financial support for any further raids of the Big East, since it is cheaper for ESPN to pay schools through the Big East than it is through the Big 12 or ACC. ESPN makes a public admission that it has been bankrolling raids and has successfully devalued the Big East? I wish.

- If, and this is a big if, the Big 10 decides to add a Big East school, it will be as a junior member at a significantly reduced payout (the Big 10 allegedly had discussions a couple of years ago of doing this with Rutgers). I'm sorry how is this related to this topic?

- With the reduced revenue, all the quality coaches leave, and it is difficult to replace them with anything other than second tier assistants, since even coaches from CUSA, MWC and better MAC schools will be reluctant to go to a Big East school. I love when you get these apoplectic visions

- The Big East athletic programs go into a slow but steady decline, making them even less attractive to other leagues. This causes instability in the US as BE fans, who are located in major metropolitan areas become despondent. The US becomes destablized and is unable to act as world policeman. A nuclear war breaks out, and life as we know it comes to an end.

But hey, hold out for that Big 10 offer. That is a great strategy.

If NBC wants a GOR, the Big East schools give NBC a GOR.

Nelson, I think that you make some decent points in your posts but you have the tendency to make up stuff to rebut and attribute it to other poster. What the point of that? It just distracts from any legitmate points you are trying to make.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson, I think that you make some decent points in your posts but you have the tendency to make up stuff to rebut and attribute it to other poster. What the point of that? It just distracts from any legitmate points you are trying to make.

Rather than try and hit a moving target, let me ask two clarifying questions:

1) Why would NBC sign a big deal with the Big East if there was a material risk it could lose key teams? Why would NBC make the investment in staff, infrastructure and marketing when they are bearing all the risk that the Big East fractures at some point?

2) Why wouldn't Big East schools sign a GOR unless they thought they were going to get an invitation from the Big 10 or ACC?

 

[metsfan2323]

Sign the GOR and give the public notice that you are about to do so. If another conference wants to expand they will do it before the GOR is signed. Force the other conferences (and ESPN) to make a move now if they want to make a move. If I had to bet, I would bet that there will be more shuffling this fall. More turmoil to come. It's time to make ourselves look as attractive as possible, beating NC State and Maryland will help. The NC State game is the biggest OOC game we have ever had at the Rent.

 

[coachcap]

Sign the GOR and give the public notice that you are about to do so. If another conference wants to expand they will do it before the GOR is signed. Force the other conferences (and ESPN) to make a move now if they want to make a move. If I had to bet, I would bet that there will be more shuffling this fall. More turmoil to come. It's time to make ourselves look as attractive as possible, beating NC State and Maryland will help. The NC State game is the biggest OOC game we have ever had at the Rent.

On the biggest OOC game ever at the Rent: My opinion it was the UNC game that the Huskies gave away in the second half. Win that & Tobacco Road wouldn't have stood for the Thunder Chickens' shenanigans veto over who to add last fall.