OT: - Henry Ruggs | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: Henry Ruggs

uconnfan68 said:
You said animals don’t kill each other in cold blood. Never watched Nat Geo?
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Jeezum sometimes I wonder if the collective IQ of this place is less than a tortoise.

Yes I have watched too many hours of nat geo in my life.

No animals don't kill in cold blood. They are cognitively incapable of a cold blooded killing. They kill for meat, territory, etc. They don't kill out of spite or hate.

I think the exception would be thosr orangutans that Goodall wrote about. They did some messee up stuff.. but they're a lot closer to han intellect than most species.
 
husky429 said:
No animals don't kill in cold blood. They are cognitively incapable of a cold blooded killing. They kill for meat, territory, etc. They don't kill out of spite or hate.

I think the exception would be thosr orangutans that Goodall wrote about. They did some messee up stuff.. but they're a lot closer to han intellect than most species.
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actually a male lion will kill all the cubs of the prior male when he takes over a new pride.
 
NJHusky said:
Just saw it....Girlfriend is screaming for help (for Ruggs) totally unconcerned that someone just burned to death in a car because of Ruggs. Meanwhile Ruggs is sitting there talking to her....The level of indifference is mind numbing to me.
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Right? Almost like, “come help him, he’s Henry Ruggs,” like that matters any more than that poor soul burning in front of them. It’s disgusting.
 
NJHusky said:
actually a male lion will kill all the cubs of the prior male when he takes over a new pride.
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Yes. And that isn't vengeance, stupidity, or anything. The male lion doesn't think "f these guys. They could get in my way I'll kill them". It's an instinct.

Surplus killings and other weird/cruel stuff exists in the animal kingdom. It isn't cold-blooded killing. It's just the circle of life. Instinct. Evolutionary adaptations.

Congrats on joining the council of dimwits though. How you people can't get that animals aren't capable of complex rational thought it beyond me.
 
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Compassion? For Ruggs? Did someone spike his drinks? Or did someone drop a heavy rock on his gas pedal? He's losing everything because of the poor decisions he's made, and she got the worst of it. You should save your compassion for the victim and her family.
 
husky429 said:
Jeezum sometimes I wonder if the collective IQ of this place is less than a tortoise.

Yes I have watched too many hours of nat geo in my life.

No animals don't kill in cold blood. They are cognitively incapable of a cold blooded killing. They kill for meat, territory, etc. They don't kill out of spite or hate.

I think the exception would be thosr orangutans that Goodall wrote about. They did some messee up stuff.. but they're a lot closer to han intellect than most species.
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What special meaning does "in cold blood" have?

Compared to the things I've witnessed mother nature do, I'm failing to understand why that distinction should be made?
 
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Mr. Wonderful said:
What special meaning does "in cold blood" have?

Compared to the things I've witnessed mother nature do, I'm failing to understand why that distinction should be made?
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It's the opposite of "heat of passion." Think cold, calculated, deliberate, ruthless, cruel, calm, without remorse. An animal can't kill in cold blood or in the heat of passion. They can't rationalize anything in that way. They just kill by instinct--they don't have critical thinking... unless you're one of those maniacal chimps I guess. It's super interesting to read about.

Gombe Chimpanzee War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

www.discovermagazine.com

A Brief History of the Gombe Chimpanzee War

How the brutal splintering of a primate community echoed human conflict.
www.discovermagazine.com www.discovermagazine.com
 
Get a Job said:
Although you weren't addressing me, here's my two cents: I don't claim it is good or right (in the ethical sense of the terms) to have compassion for people who do harm to others. The reason I jumped in with my original comment was to whine about what I perceive as hypocrisy. I get the impression that the majority of people who would say "tough guy" things about how Ruggs should be punished are the same people who would say that compassion for all people is morally good (probably because they were taught that in a religious context).

As a non-believer and staunch critic of religion, I am often told (either directly by individuals or by osmosis in society) that I am a morally defective person. It therefore grinds my gears when I perceive others to be acting/talking in a way that goes against their proclaimed morals, especially when I find myself in accordance said morals, as is the case in the present discussion.

TL;DR: Why is it good to have compassion for bad people? I dunno. I am not saying it is. But don't tell me compassion is a virtue and then casually write off a young man to waste his life away in prison (or worse).
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Re: the part I put in bold. SO TRUE, man. I've alluded to how fraggin crazy my family is... I've got 5 siblings-in-law, 3 are felons (1 for ACCOMPLICE TO MURDER), and one is currently awaiting trial for beating someone up with a tire iron while he was high. Obviously, the parents are not thrilled about that... but the amount of crap we took for not having a wedding, the shaming we get for not attending church weekly, that we don't participate in grace at family dinners when we go down south for visits is insane. I love them... they grew up dirt poor with no prospects... how my fiance was able to get out of that Appalachian s-hole and get a law degree and PhD is beyond me (there's the compassion! ;) ).... but the last people who should be judging our actions are them.

The show "Midnight Mass" made me think about this a lot. Religious people who use religion as a crutch or a way to try to demonstrate their own morality are some of the most annoying kinds of people. You either do or don't do good things. Research pretty much unequivocally shows that religion doesn't affect morality in a positive way and if anything might have a slightly negative effect depending on how you measure it.

I think a lot of this argument comes down to semantics. We haven't really established a working definition of what we're referring to with compassion. There is definitely a lot of tough guys in the world that say "throw the book at 'em!" that would never follow through if it was someone in their family being treated that way. I'm pretty strongly in favor of fairly long sentences and a well-funded restorative justice program.
 
husky429 said:
Re: the part I put in bold. SO TRUE, man. I've alluded to how fraggin crazy my family is... I've got 5 siblings-in-law, 3 are felons (1 for ACCOMPLICE TO MURDER), and one is currently awaiting trial for beating someone up with a tire iron while he was high. Obviously, the parents are not thrilled about that... but the amount of crap we took for not having a wedding, the shaming we get for not attending church weekly, that we don't participate in grace at family dinners when we go down south for visits is insane. I love them... they grew up dirt poor with no prospects... how my fiance was able to get out of that Appalachian s-hole and get a law degree and PhD is beyond me (there's the compassion! ;) ).... but the last people who should be judging our actions are them.

The show "Midnight Mass" made me think about this a lot. Religious people who use religion as a crutch or a way to try to demonstrate their own morality are some of the most annoying kinds of people. You either do or don't do good things. Research pretty much unequivocally shows that religion doesn't affect morality in a positive way and if anything might have a slightly negative effect depending on how you measure it.

I think a lot of this argument comes down to semantics. We haven't really established a working definition of what we're referring to with compassion. There is definitely a lot of tough guys in the world that say "throw the book at 'em!" that would never follow through if it was someone in their family being treated that way. I'm pretty strongly in favor of fairly long sentences and a well-funded restorative justice program.
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Sounds like a wild family situation!

All I mean by compassion is the difference between viewing a criminal as an animal who hurt someone and can therefore be dealt with as such vs. viewing a criminal as a human being with a potential for redemption. I advocate for the latter, and then we can argue about how to deal with the specifics of criminal justice.
 
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Get a Job said:
Because America.
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that's a weird take. Cars are built all over the world and many of them go 150+.

I was over in Europe a few weeks ago and made in to Germany just to see what it was like on the open parts of the highway system. I was doing 115 mph (187 kph on the read out) and there were plenty of German, Belgian, Danes and other drivers in BMW's, MB's, Audi's, Skodas, VW and other manufacturers ripping by me. They were easily doing 130 mph or better on a highway.

I'm not excusing doing 156 on a state or local road but to suggest the only reason cars are built to go fast and driver's drive them fast is "America" is a really naïve take.
 
ucp990411 said:
Can someone explain to me why cars are made that can reach 156mph?
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So now you want us to all drive Corollas!? Cars don't kill people... guns kill people! [This was just a wise guy retort].

My son actually asked the same thing (I was pleasantly surprised that he asked that considering he'll start driving in a couple months).

Technology allows for maximum speed limits. I think they are mandatory in some European countries. The question would be what the maximum would be. I read that the highest speed limit currently in the US is 85. Do you cap at 100? 125? I think the limiters can be removed or changed by computer so if you want to take your car on a track that would be a possibility.

I'm not sure which side I'd be on for this question, but it's a legit question. If Ruggs car could only go 125, and he got it down to 100 before impact, are the woman and her dog alive? It would still allow for the amazing acceleration of a super- car, but stop you from breaking the sound barrier. Hmmm.
 
Chin Diesel said:
that's a weird take. Cars are built all over the world and many of them go 150+.

I was over in Europe a few weeks ago and made in to Germany just to see what it was like on the open parts of the highway system. I was doing 115 mph (187 kph on the read out) and there were plenty of German, Belgian, Danes and other drivers in BMW's, MB's, Audi's, Skodas, VW and other manufacturers ripping by me. They were easily doing 130 mph or better on a highway.

I'm not excusing doing 156 on a state or local road but to suggest the only reason cars are built to go fast and driver's drive them fast is "America" is a really naïve take.
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I am aware of the things you describe. I lived in Germany and did an internship at Daimler.

I am simply saying that, in the event that someone in this country tries to limit the top speeds of cars, the reason for people's opposition will be "America." There would be vehement opposition in Germany, too. Their reason would be "Fahrspaß" or "Freiheit", though.
 
Chin Diesel said:
that's a weird take. Cars are built all over the world and many of them go 150+.

I was over in Europe a few weeks ago and made in to Germany just to see what it was like on the open parts of the highway system. I was doing 115 mph (187 kph on the read out) and there were plenty of German, Belgian, Danes and other drivers in BMW's, MB's, Audi's, Skodas, VW and other manufacturers ripping by me. They were easily doing 130 mph or better on a highway.

I'm not excusing doing 156 on a state or local road but to suggest the only reason cars are built to go fast and driver's drive them fast is "America" is a really naïve take.
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2x over the limit?
 
uconnfan68 said:
2x over the limit?
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Not sure if you are referencing Ruggs being 2x the legal limit to drive, him driving, 3x - 4x speed limit or my story.

No excuse for him to drive that drunk. This isn't a .05-.08 where you might think you're okay; you're way over any reasonable ability to drive. His speed was equally stupid.

As for me, it was the unlimited part of the highways. Stay on the right, pass on the left and always check your mirrors.


www.simplegermany.com

The German Autobahn [A Detailed Guide For First-Timers]

This article will give you some facts, rules, and controversy on the infamous German Autobahn. Will it live up to its legendary status?
www.simplegermany.com www.simplegermany.com
 
husky429 said:
Why is that a necessary part of humanity at all? And why is it the HARDEST part? That's a bold claim to make without any sort of rationale. I mean there's about 99% of philosophers that study ethics that would disagree with you to some extent or another.

You're operating under a totally different moral paradigm than @Woof 101 is... he's saying that they don't deserve that compassion to begin with... so I'm not sure your argument makes much sense from a structural standpoint.
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I think perhaps he is talking about empathy from the standpoint of putting yourself in the place of the perpetrator. Many people have done some incredibly dangerous things to others without thinking and lived to deeply regret it. That is grief (sorrow) for the mistake(s) one has made. I can appreciate sympathy for someone who has committed a serious crime but a just system of law necessitates punishment as deterrent for crimes. Philosophy and ethics are based on some kind of standards of truth. An intellectual yardstick perhaps. Empathy doesn't have to negate justice in order to consider the plight of someone who suddenly will have to deal with a just punishment under law. That's just recognizing that the perpetrator is still a human being who will have to face himself and and his actions and pay the price under law and live with the loss of this young lady's life for the rest of his life. The word compassion comes from the Latin: "com passio" (to suffer with). I don't think any of us would want to be in his shoes today. By imagining yourself in his place it might inspire all of us to reconsider how one operates a motor vehicle and how easy it is to make a mistake that can cost lives even driving the speed limit. We all make mistakes. Yes, this was egregious and thoughtless. He failed to think. It was thoughtless of him and he was inebriated.
When an older child pushes a younger sibling down we correct them for doing something wrong. We explain that the younger sibling could get very seriously hurt by banging his/her head on a fireplace or coffee table. We want to impress upon them the consequences of what their actions would be and how sorry they would be if they hurt their younger sibling.
 
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My heart goes out to the women and her family of course.

There is no excuse. I don't know the character of Ruggs, but it doesn't matter.
Especially in the day of Uber, a man making millions, has no excuse to first getting in the car in his condition. The man is 22 years old. He knows better. He should be in jail for a long time. I understand people don't think straight when drunk, but then again, don't get yourself in to that situation.
 
Spaceman213J said:
My heart goes out to the women and her family of course.

There is no excuse. I don't know the character of Ruggs, but it doesn't matter.
Especially in the day of Uber, a man making millions, has no excuse to first getting in the car in his condition. The man is 22 years old. He knows better. He should be in jail for a long time. I understand people don't think straight when drunk, but then again, don't get yourself in to that situation.
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Kids, entitled kids, entitled kids with a ton of money all make mistakes. I don't know Ruggs, obviously, so I don't believe this necessarily means he is a bad person. He made a terrible mistake. I do agree that this mistake is inexcuseable and he needs to pay the full price.
 
ucp990411 said:
Can someone explain to me why cars are made that can reach 156mph?
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Simple one here and no attack, but because people are going to buy it. No different than Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini etc. If there's a market they will sell it.
Could put Audi and BMW and others to the mix. Same goes for Ford and Dodge, muscle helps sell the brand.
The car did not create this tragedy, the person behind the wheel did so. Sad but true .... :(
 
Chin Diesel said:
Not sure if you are referencing Ruggs being 2x the legal limit to drive, him driving, 3x - 4x speed limit or my story.

No excuse for him to drive that drunk. This isn't a .05-.08 where you might think you're okay; you're way over any reasonable ability to drive. His speed was equally stupid.

As for me, it was the unlimited part of the highways. Stay on the right, pass on the left and always check your mirrors.


www.simplegermany.com

The German Autobahn [A Detailed Guide For First-Timers]

This article will give you some facts, rules, and controversy on the infamous German Autobahn. Will it live up to its legendary status?
www.simplegermany.com www.simplegermany.com
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Was just wondering if you were 2x over the lager limit. ;^)
 
The additional video of him driving insanely fast (which has been taken down already) shows this was not a one time mistake or bad decision.
No matter, for some will think the punishment is too light and some will think it is too harsh.

In the end, what counts is a woman's life was needlessly cut short.
 
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Woof 101 said:
Simple one here and no attack, but because people are going to buy it. No different than Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini etc. If there's a market they will sell it.
Could put Audi and BMW and others to the mix. Same goes for Ford and Dodge, muscle helps sell the brand.
The car did not create this tragedy, the person behind the wheel did so. Sad but true .... :(
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So legalize heroin because people will buy it?
 
Get a Job said:
I am aware of the things you describe. I lived in Germany and did an internship at Daimler.

I am simply saying that, in the event that someone in this country tries to limit the top speeds of cars, the reason for people's opposition will be "America." There would be vehement opposition in Germany, too. Their reason would be "Fahrspaß" or "Freiheit", though.
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the reality is that speed in and of itself isn't an issue. it's all time/place. 150mph on the autobahn is nothing. there are plenty of highways in the US that could have speed limits of 100mph and it wouldn't cause any more issues. It's distracted driving, drunk driving, speeding on residential roads, weaving through traffic, etc. that is the actual problem.
 
nomar said:
Irrelevant to the tragedy, but it was a nice touch for him to have a loaded gun in the car. Seems like a real high-character guy.

Also: he killed the woman's dog, too.
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Best of the P5.
 
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