OT: Henry Ruggs

[J187Money]

In the bell curve of decision making, this was a 3rd degree SD bad choice. We all make bad choices. But my level of compassion is really dictated by circumstance and how far out the curve the bad choice is...

 

[YearoftheHusky]

TMZ realesed video Of Ruggs and his girlfriend sitting on the curb watching the car burn after the accident. It was absolutely harrowing. I can’t believe they would release that video. I pray the family does not have to see it.

 

[Chin Diesel]

How your heart breaks for the killer as much as the deceased is hard to comprehend. No personal attack, I simply cannot relate to the rationale of such thinking.
A young innocent woman had her life taken by a also young out of control college educated professional. High paid athlete on a drunk mission of thrill also that could have killed him and his girl friend. They were the lucky ones.
Compassion for the victim and her family 100%, for the accused party not a bit.

The hardest part of humanity is showing compassion and mercy for those who are undeserving of it. Not saying I disagree with your viewpoint

 

[husky429]

The hardest part of humanity is showing compassion and mercy for those who are undeserving of it. Not saying I disagree with your viewpoint

Why is that a necessary part of humanity at all? And why is it the HARDEST part? That's a bold claim to make without any sort of rationale. I mean there's about 99% of philosophers that study ethics that would disagree with you to some extent or another.

You're operating under a totally different moral paradigm than @Woof 101 is... he's saying that they don't deserve that compassion to begin with... so I'm not sure your argument makes much sense from a structural standpoint.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Why is that a necessary part of humanity at all? And why is it the HARDEST part? That's a bold claim to make without any sort of rationale. I mean there's about 99% of philosophers that study ethics that would disagree with you to some extent or another.

You're operating under a totally different moral paradigm than @Woof 101 is... he's saying that they don't deserve that compassion to begin with... so I'm not sure your argument makes much sense from a structural standpoint.

It's what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom and it's hard because it's irrational.

Love how you say I make a bold claim with nothing to back it up and then throw out a "99% of philosophers that study ethics that would disagree" and have nothing to back up that claim. I'm 100% sure that was unintentional irony on your part.

 

[NJHusky]

TMZ realesed video Of Ruggs and his girlfriend sitting on the curb watching the car burn after the accident. It was absolutely harrowing. I can’t believe they would release that video. I pray the family does not have to see it.

Just saw it....Girlfriend is screaming for help (for Ruggs) totally unconcerned that someone just burned to death in a car because of Ruggs. Meanwhile Ruggs is sitting there talking to her....The level of indifference is mind numbing to me.

 

[husky429]

Guess you haven't ever seen animals kill each other for no other reason than clearing out competition for mating, territory or reasons other than for food. Really odd statement to suggest animals don't kill each other or commit genocide. They most certainly do. It's way beyond my knowledge base to even try to discuss if animals are capable of raping each other.

As for why people show compassion to those who act way beyond societal norms, you'd be better off asking them than asking me why I think they do what they do.

You can't possibly be this obtuse dude. Duh, animals kill each other. But they aren't murdering each other in cold blood like humans do, or making the personal choice to drive 160mph while drunk. They operate on instinct absent of morality. An animal doesn't think "he slept with my wife so I'll shoot them both"--they CAN'T.

Your second paragraph also makes no sense. Why someone acts outside of a social norm is irrelevant. People do things for all sorts of reasons. The question is why to show them compassion when they hurt other people? I already answered the question FOR YOU, and you still don't have an answer.

I'm done with this man. You need a critical thinking class.

 

[Umami Zen]

Very poor judgment. Tragic results. Amazing that more damage to human lives wasn't done given the reckless nature of his actions.

Sad

 

[uconnfan68]

You can't possibly be this obtuse dude. Duh, animals kill each other. But they aren't murdering each other in cold blood like humans do, or making the personal choice to drive 160mph while drunk. They operate on instinct absent of morality. An animal doesn't think "he slept with my wife so I'll shoot them both"--they CAN'T.

Your second paragraph also makes no sense. Why someone acts outside of a social norm is irrelevant. People do things for all sorts of reasons. The question is why to show them compassion when they hurt other people? I already answered the question FOR YOU, and you still don't have an answer.

I'm done with this man. You need a critical thinking class.

You said animals don’t kill each other in cold blood. Never watched Nat Geo?

 

[Scoe]

I can understand the anger and the difficulty to forgive the "killer". He behaved in a horrifically irresponsible way that resulted in the tragic death of another person. I just think it's intellectually lazy to wash your hands of the matter by saying, "Poor girl. Hope the driver rots in prison." Why wouldn't you want him to be held accountable for his actions (prison time, money, etc.), and then come out on the other side of this a changed person? I suspect many of you would say, "Oh, I do want that, but we all know it's not going to happen." Would you say that if this was your son? I hope Henry Ruggs is in anguish over what happened, not because I wish him ill, but because it would indicate he is an empathetic person who feels remorse for his actions. But even though I "hope" he is in anguish, I still feel heartbroken for him and his situation. I can hear a lot of you screaming, "Forget his anguish! There is a dead girl and a grieving family!" I feel just as heartbroken for her and her loved ones as you do. I just feel compelled to encourage compassion for the other party as well, because I have not seen anyone else do it. This forum has a newly-minted champion in Maurice Clarett. When he went through his troubles, there were a lot of privileged, ignorant, intellectually lazy people who knew nothing about him personally who said, "I hope this guy rots in jail." Luckily he did not rot in jail, and he is now out there helping to prevent Maurice Clarett and Henry Ruggs scenarios from occurring. I am pretty sure he would agree with my take on this. Also, there is a fictional character, whom a lot of you think was real, whose morals are held in the highest regard by a lot of you (and me for that matter). I guaran-god-damn-tee you he would agree with my take as well. And you people gleefully fantasizing about Henry Ruggs being sexually assaulted: grow up.

I can understand the anger and the difficulty to forgive the "killer". He behaved in a horrifically irresponsible way that resulted in the tragic death of another person. I just think it's intellectually lazy to wash your hands of the matter by saying, "Poor girl. Hope the driver rots in prison." Why wouldn't you want him to be held accountable for his actions (prison time, money, etc.), and then come out on the other side of this a changed person? I suspect many of you would say, "Oh, I do want that, but we all know it's not going to happen." Would you say that if this was your son? I hope Henry Ruggs is in anguish over what happened, not because I wish him ill, but because it would indicate he is an empathetic person who feels remorse for his actions. But even though I "hope" he is in anguish, I still feel heartbroken for him and his situation. I can hear a lot of you screaming, "Forget his anguish! There is a dead girl and a grieving family!" I feel just as heartbroken for her and her loved ones as you do. I just feel compelled to encourage compassion for the other party as well, because I have not seen anyone else do it. This forum has a newly-minted champion in Maurice Clarett. When he went through his troubles, there were a lot of privileged, ignorant, intellectually lazy people who knew nothing about him personally who said, "I hope this guy rots in jail." Luckily he did not rot in jail, and he is now out there helping to prevent Maurice Clarett and Henry Ruggs scenarios from occurring. I am pretty sure he would agree with my take on this. Also, there is a fictional character, whom a lot of you think was real, whose morals are held in the highest regard by a lot of you (and me for that matter). I guaran-god-damn-tee you he would agree with my take as well. And you people gleefully fantasizing about Henry Ruggs being sexually assaulted: grow up.

I think there’s plenty of time to have sympathy for Ruggs and his family. I just can’t help but feel so angry about it because it was so avoidable and his gf was with him how does she not see that he is too intoxicated to drive, being that he is a father to a 2 year old making the selfish decision letting his family and teammates down then of course taking a life I just can’t comprehend it all.

 

[husky429]

You said animals don’t kill each other in cold blood. Never watched Nat Geo?

Jeezum sometimes I wonder if the collective IQ of this place is less than a tortoise.

Yes I have watched too many hours of nat geo in my life.

No animals don't kill in cold blood. They are cognitively incapable of a cold blooded killing. They kill for meat, territory, etc. They don't kill out of spite or hate.

I think the exception would be thosr orangutans that Goodall wrote about. They did some messee up stuff.. but they're a lot closer to han intellect than most species.

 

[NJHusky]

No animals don't kill in cold blood. They are cognitively incapable of a cold blooded killing. They kill for meat, territory, etc. They don't kill out of spite or hate.

I think the exception would be thosr orangutans that Goodall wrote about. They did some messee up stuff.. but they're a lot closer to han intellect than most species.

actually a male lion will kill all the cubs of the prior male when he takes over a new pride.

 

[YearoftheHusky]

Just saw it....Girlfriend is screaming for help (for Ruggs) totally unconcerned that someone just burned to death in a car because of Ruggs. Meanwhile Ruggs is sitting there talking to her....The level of indifference is mind numbing to me.

Right? Almost like, “come help him, he’s Henry Ruggs,” like that matters any more than that poor soul burning in front of them. It’s disgusting.

 

[husky429]

actually a male lion will kill all the cubs of the prior male when he takes over a new pride.

Yes. And that isn't vengeance, stupidity, or anything. The male lion doesn't think "f these guys. They could get in my way I'll kill them". It's an instinct.

Surplus killings and other weird/cruel stuff exists in the animal kingdom. It isn't cold-blooded killing. It's just the circle of life. Instinct. Evolutionary adaptations.

Congrats on joining the council of dimwits though. How you people can't get that animals aren't capable of complex rational thought it beyond me.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Compassion? For Ruggs? Did someone spike his drinks? Or did someone drop a heavy rock on his gas pedal? He's losing everything because of the poor decisions he's made, and she got the worst of it. You should save your compassion for the victim and her family.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Jeezum sometimes I wonder if the collective IQ of this place is less than a tortoise.

Yes I have watched too many hours of nat geo in my life.

No animals don't kill in cold blood. They are cognitively incapable of a cold blooded killing. They kill for meat, territory, etc. They don't kill out of spite or hate.

I think the exception would be thosr orangutans that Goodall wrote about. They did some messee up stuff.. but they're a lot closer to han intellect than most species.

What special meaning does "in cold blood" have?

Compared to the things I've witnessed mother nature do, I'm failing to understand why that distinction should be made?

 

[husky429]

What special meaning does "in cold blood" have?

Compared to the things I've witnessed mother nature do, I'm failing to understand why that distinction should be made?

It's the opposite of "heat of passion." Think cold, calculated, deliberate, ruthless, cruel, calm, without remorse. An animal can't kill in cold blood or in the heat of passion. They can't rationalize anything in that way. They just kill by instinct--they don't have critical thinking... unless you're one of those maniacal chimps I guess. It's super interesting to read about.

Gombe Chimpanzee War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A Brief History of the Gombe Chimpanzee War

How the brutal splintering of a primate community echoed human conflict.

www.discovermagazine.com

 

[husky429]

Although you weren't addressing me, here's my two cents: I don't claim it is good or right (in the ethical sense of the terms) to have compassion for people who do harm to others. The reason I jumped in with my original comment was to whine about what I perceive as hypocrisy. I get the impression that the majority of people who would say "tough guy" things about how Ruggs should be punished are the same people who would say that compassion for all people is morally good (probably because they were taught that in a religious context).

As a non-believer and staunch critic of religion, I am often told (either directly by individuals or by osmosis in society) that I am a morally defective person. It therefore grinds my gears when I perceive others to be acting/talking in a way that goes against their proclaimed morals, especially when I find myself in accordance said morals, as is the case in the present discussion.

TL;DR: Why is it good to have compassion for bad people? I dunno. I am not saying it is. But don't tell me compassion is a virtue and then casually write off a young man to waste his life away in prison (or worse).

Re: the part I put in bold. SO TRUE, man. I've alluded to how fraggin crazy my family is... I've got 5 siblings-in-law, 3 are felons (1 for ACCOMPLICE TO MURDER), and one is currently awaiting trial for beating someone up with a tire iron while he was high. Obviously, the parents are not thrilled about that... but the amount of crap we took for not having a wedding, the shaming we get for not attending church weekly, that we don't participate in grace at family dinners when we go down south for visits is insane. I love them... they grew up dirt poor with no prospects... how my fiance was able to get out of that Appalachian s-hole and get a law degree and PhD is beyond me (there's the compassion! ).... but the last people who should be judging our actions are them.

The show "Midnight Mass" made me think about this a lot. Religious people who use religion as a crutch or a way to try to demonstrate their own morality are some of the most annoying kinds of people. You either do or don't do good things. Research pretty much unequivocally shows that religion doesn't affect morality in a positive way and if anything might have a slightly negative effect depending on how you measure it.

I think a lot of this argument comes down to semantics. We haven't really established a working definition of what we're referring to with compassion. There is definitely a lot of tough guys in the world that say "throw the book at 'em!" that would never follow through if it was someone in their family being treated that way. I'm pretty strongly in favor of fairly long sentences and a well-funded restorative justice program.

 

[Get a Job]

Re: the part I put in bold. SO TRUE, man. I've alluded to how fraggin crazy my family is... I've got 5 siblings-in-law, 3 are felons (1 for ACCOMPLICE TO MURDER), and one is currently awaiting trial for beating someone up with a tire iron while he was high. Obviously, the parents are not thrilled about that... but the amount of crap we took for not having a wedding, the shaming we get for not attending church weekly, that we don't participate in grace at family dinners when we go down south for visits is insane. I love them... they grew up dirt poor with no prospects... how my fiance was able to get out of that Appalachian s-hole and get a law degree and PhD is beyond me (there's the compassion! ).... but the last people who should be judging our actions are them.

The show "Midnight Mass" made me think about this a lot. Religious people who use religion as a crutch or a way to try to demonstrate their own morality are some of the most annoying kinds of people. You either do or don't do good things. Research pretty much unequivocally shows that religion doesn't affect morality in a positive way and if anything might have a slightly negative effect depending on how you measure it.

I think a lot of this argument comes down to semantics. We haven't really established a working definition of what we're referring to with compassion. There is definitely a lot of tough guys in the world that say "throw the book at 'em!" that would never follow through if it was someone in their family being treated that way. I'm pretty strongly in favor of fairly long sentences and a well-funded restorative justice program.

Sounds like a wild family situation!

All I mean by compassion is the difference between viewing a criminal as an animal who hurt someone and can therefore be dealt with as such vs. viewing a criminal as a human being with a potential for redemption. I advocate for the latter, and then we can argue about how to deal with the specifics of criminal justice.

 

[ucp990411]

Can someone explain to me why cars are made that can reach 156mph?

 

[Get a Job]

Can someone explain to me why cars are made that can reach 156mph?

Because America.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Because America.

That scene from Joe Dirt where the chick is like “is that a Hemi?”, all turned on, comes to mind

 

[Chin Diesel]

Because America.

that's a weird take. Cars are built all over the world and many of them go 150+.

I was over in Europe a few weeks ago and made in to Germany just to see what it was like on the open parts of the highway system. I was doing 115 mph (187 kph on the read out) and there were plenty of German, Belgian, Danes and other drivers in BMW's, MB's, Audi's, Skodas, VW and other manufacturers ripping by me. They were easily doing 130 mph or better on a highway.

I'm not excusing doing 156 on a state or local road but to suggest the only reason cars are built to go fast and driver's drive them fast is "America" is a really naïve take.

 

[Chuck]

Can someone explain to me why cars are made that can reach 156mph?

So now you want us to all drive Corollas!? Cars don't kill people... guns kill people! [This was just a wise guy retort].

My son actually asked the same thing (I was pleasantly surprised that he asked that considering he'll start driving in a couple months).

Technology allows for maximum speed limits. I think they are mandatory in some European countries. The question would be what the maximum would be. I read that the highest speed limit currently in the US is 85. Do you cap at 100? 125? I think the limiters can be removed or changed by computer so if you want to take your car on a track that would be a possibility.

I'm not sure which side I'd be on for this question, but it's a legit question. If Ruggs car could only go 125, and he got it down to 100 before impact, are the woman and her dog alive? It would still allow for the amazing acceleration of a super- car, but stop you from breaking the sound barrier. Hmmm.

 

[Get a Job]

that's a weird take. Cars are built all over the world and many of them go 150+.

I was over in Europe a few weeks ago and made in to Germany just to see what it was like on the open parts of the highway system. I was doing 115 mph (187 kph on the read out) and there were plenty of German, Belgian, Danes and other drivers in BMW's, MB's, Audi's, Skodas, VW and other manufacturers ripping by me. They were easily doing 130 mph or better on a highway.

I'm not excusing doing 156 on a state or local road but to suggest the only reason cars are built to go fast and driver's drive them fast is "America" is a really naïve take.

I am aware of the things you describe. I lived in Germany and did an internship at Daimler.

I am simply saying that, in the event that someone in this country tries to limit the top speeds of cars, the reason for people's opposition will be "America." There would be vehement opposition in Germany, too. Their reason would be "Fahrspaß" or "Freiheit", though.