Harper vs Lawson.

[Darwin]

True, but that doesn't tell the full story. Holly did quite well her first 3 years. However, the team gradually got worse each season after that. It was evident there were significant issues in the program. Her last team lost in the first round and it was questionable if UT would even make the tournament that year. Things were trending downward and I don't believe they were going to get better.

However in year 5 this is Harper's program by now and they appear stuck in neutral and even trending down in a similar fashion. Her inability to recruit has left UT with a roster that isn't up to par with the expectations of the fan base and cannot compete with most top 25 programs. I've used the phrase "stopped the bleeding" which is exactly what Harper did when hired but now she doesn't seem to be able to move them forward. If the struggles continue for UT, they will possibly miss the tournament for the first time and the AD will have a big decision to make.

So you basically just reiterated what I said.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

I also post on Volnation and some fans there have been saying UT should have hired Lawson.

While Harper hasn't exactly been terrific, I'd say the jury is still very much out on Lawson. She has certainly recruited better and is perhaps a better in game coach but her body is work is still too small to see if she will get Duke anywhere close to the level they were under Gail.

UT expects and NC title contention with their base. Harper is probably not that person- but I don't believe Lawson is either.

No way any of the current top coaches will go to UT. UT would need to cough up more NIL AND find an experienced coach that is why Mulkey was successful. I just don't see that happening. Their base needs to accept that they need to invest for the long term, instead of looking for an instant fix.

 

[jumpstart]

Tennessee is now driven by football with the new NIL. The money is going to go to football and the upgrades are going to go to football. The men's basketball team will be next in line followed by the baseball team. The women's programs are not supported because most companies are interested in exposure. My experience has been that most donors are successful males with thriving companies.....not always but most of the time. They are not interested in women's programs that are not visible. Tennessee has a history, but it's a past history. That is not playing well in the "today's NIL".....it's true with most programs in the country but some universities will fund women's programs better than others. LSU would be a perfect example. The women's programs are once again playing catch up with scraps.....sad but true. It's changing but slowly.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

No way any of the current top coaches will go to UT. UT would need to cough up more NIL AND find an experienced coach that is why Mulkey was successful. I just don't see that happening. Their base needs to accept that they need to invest for the long term, instead of looking for an instant fix.

I agree, none of the top line of coaches are leaving their current jobs. I also felt in 2019 when Holly was fired it was going to be a tall order to coax one of those to Knoxville. Fulmer seemed to go with the safe choice meaning a female who happened to play for Pat and had been moderately successful at her previous program with limited resources, in addition to being a Tennessee native. I felt it was a good, not great hire but was willing to wait and see.

The recruiting is a bigger problem than game coaching at this point. Beyond Jacskon and Spear, would any of their players see real minutes on a top 10 team? I don't think they would and that's just being honest.

I don't think UT is a bad program right now, but they are a very average one. Harper's biggest program though seems to be recruiting even after she made staff changes. If she can't get better players, she won't be able to get them where the fans feel they belong.

 

[cancontent]

No way any of the current top coaches will go to UT. UT would need to cough up more NIL AND find an experienced coach that is why Mulkey was successful. I just don't see that happening. Their base needs to accept that they need to invest for the long term, instead of looking for an instant fix.

It's too early to say whether NIL is successful for LSU. I'm saying this based on the fact this is year 3 for Coach Mulkey. While early returns look good, if LSU only wins 1 title and nothing else, NIL may be a moot point.

Heck it's too soon to say NIL is helping teams get better overall. For example, in this thread there are posts stating that Lawson is doing better at recruiting than Harper. From what I recall Duke doesn't have much in the way of NIL yet they have a great 2023 class and a great group coming in for 2024. It conflicts with your statement.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

It's too early to say whether NIL is successful for LSU. I'm saying this based on the fact this is year 3 for Coach Mulkey. While early returns look good, if LSU only wins 1 title and nothing else, NIL may be a moot point.

Heck it's too soon to say NIL is helping teams get better overall. For example, in this thread there are posts stating that Lawson is doing better at recruiting than Harper. From what I recall Duke doesn't have much in the way of NIL yet they have a great 2023 class and a great group coming in for 2024. It conflicts with your statement.

No it doesn't conflict. Let me try to articulate this more thoroughly. Duke and UT are not comparable schools. Large Public schools that are not academically orientated need robust NIL AND a great coach if you want an instant fix. I am not saying NIL is a long term fix, but it certainly makes recruiting easier. In the short term, it helped Mulkey get a championship. Lawson can't instantly build because she doesn't have NIL and she has a very thin coaching resume.
Also, Duke is a small, private academically oriented school. It can attract top players who take the student part of their experience seriously and see the value of a top tier degree after basketball is over.
At the end of the day, a top notch recruiter knows the game that has to be played to highlight and exploit what their school/program has to offer a recruit. Harper can't or hasn't been able to do that, yet. Lawson has, but the formula to do so is different.

 

[triaddukefan]

It's too early to say whether NIL is successful for LSU. I'm saying this based on the fact this is year 3 for Coach Mulkey. While early returns look good, if LSU only wins 1 title and nothing else, NIL may be a moot point.

Heck it's too soon to say NIL is helping teams get better overall. For example, in this thread there are posts stating that Lawson is doing better at recruiting than Harper. From what I recall Duke doesn't have much in the way of NIL yet they have a great 2023 class and a great group coming in for 2024. It conflicts with your statement.

Remember we can offer real bbq and cheap tobacco in lieu of NIL.

 

[cancontent]

Remember we can offer real bbq and cheap tobacco in lieu of NIL.

And biscuits. Don't forget that part!

 

[triaddukefan]

And biscuits. Don't forget that part!

Ha... And iwas just getting ready to head over to Biscuitviille. You cant get Biscuitville in Knoxville.

 

[Geew1992]

No it doesn't conflict. Let me try to articulate this more thoroughly. Duke and UT are not comparable schools. Large Public schools that are not academically orientated need robust NIL AND a great coach if you want an instant fix. I am not saying NIL is a long term fix, but it certainly makes recruiting easier. In the short term, it helped Mulkey get a championship. Lawson can't instantly build because she doesn't have NIL and she has a very thin coaching resume.
Also, Duke is a small, private academically oriented school. It can attract top players who take the student part of their experience seriously and see the value of a top tier degree after basketball is over.
At the end of the day, a top notch recruiter knows the game that has to be played to highlight and exploit what their school/program has to offer a recruit. Harper can't or hasn't been able to do that, yet. Lawson has, but the formula to do so is different.

But Lawson is instantly building. Look at her recruiting. Her recruiting isn’t turning into winning though

 

[Ladeeeeda]

But Lawson is instantly building. Look at her recruiting. Her recruiting isn’t turning into winning though

She isn't instantly building at all. I am looking at her recruiting. High school recruiting is the long game. Her 1st true recruiting class is only sophomores.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Development?? Who has Lawson developed? I’d give the edge to Harper on that one.

Ashlon Jackson, for one.
Celeste Taylor, for another.
Emma Koabel, for a third.

Development takes all forms. For some with elite natural ability, it is harnessing that talent. For others without as high of a ceiling, it is maximizing the potential they do have.

 

[Geew1992]

Ashlon Jackson, for one.
Celeste Taylor, for another.
Emma Koabel, for a third.

Development takes all forms. For some with elite natural ability, it is harnessing that talent. For others without as high of a ceiling, it is maximizing the potential they do have.

But to say she’s developed better than Harper?? Have to disagree there

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

But to say she’s developed better than Harper?? Have to disagree there

You asked, " Who has Lawson developed?"
I responded with three quick examples.

 

[cancontent]

No it doesn't conflict. Let me try to articulate this more thoroughly. Duke and UT are not comparable schools. Large Public schools that are not academically orientated need robust NIL AND a great coach if you want an instant fix. I am not saying NIL is a long term fix, but it certainly makes recruiting easier. In the short term, it helped Mulkey get a championship. Lawson can't instantly build because she doesn't have NIL and she has a very thin coaching resume.
Also, Duke is a small, private academically oriented school. It can attract top players who take the student part of their experience seriously and see the value of a top tier degree after basketball is over.
At the end of the day, a top notch recruiter knows the game that has to be played to highlight and exploit what their school/program has to offer a recruit. Harper can't or hasn't been able to do that, yet. Lawson has, but the formula to do so is different.

That's fair. To me though, NIL is becoming a crutch with respect to the recruiting conversation. I'm not saying it doesn't have impact but how significant is that impact really? With all the chatter about how LSU has deep pockets, it didn't pan out for the WBB program when it comes to 2024 recruits.

The NCAA NIL experiment is still in its infancy. Results are mixed in WBB if you ask me. It's like free agency in pro sports. Making huge investments in free agents pays off on occasion, but there are way more examples of huge spending not paying off for a team.

And looking at the 2024 class rankings, how many of these programs have NIL initiatives with deep pockets? Several of the fanbases on the list complain on their boards that their NIL efforts are non-competitive. It doesn't seem to be stopping to players from choosing them.

2024 women's college basketball recruiting rankings: Updated top 25 classes

We break down the top 25 recruiting classes after the early signing window.

www.espn.com

 

[Bald Husky]

But to say she’s developed better than Harper?? Have to disagree there

Who has Harper developed? They haven't recruited anyone, all their decent players come from the portal, and the bench players are slow and not that good. First, they have to get high school recruits, not an easy task evidently. Coach Sam from Louisville was supposed to be a great recruiter but has done nothing except getting portal players, players who have been developed by some other coach. Kellie has to clean house if she is given another year after this. If you live and die by the portal, you will never have a team that displays your system. That team is really messed up now, and I don't know if Kellie can resurrect it.

 

[cancontent]

Who has Harper developed? They haven't recruited anyone, all their decent players come from the portal, and the bench players are slow and not that good. First, they have to get high school recruits, not an easy task evidently. Coach Sam from Louisville was supposed to be a great recruiter but has done nothing except getting portal players, players who have been developed by some other coach. Kellie has to clean house if she is given another year after this. If you live and die by the portal, you will never have a team that displays your system. That team is really messed up now, and I don't know if Kellie can resurrect it.

Wouldn't Horston and Burrell count? Horston had a great season as a rookie this year. Burrell has had her challenges sticking with a team but she kept getting contracts when teams needed depth due to injuries.