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I would wager a guess that UConn hockey helped to limit the available Saturday dates at the HCC.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Lolwut? If men's basketball is getting bumped by hockey, I'm burning this mother down.
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I wouldn't say they are getting bumped for it but they have to schedule mens and womens basketball, uconn hockey and the wolfpack. There are only so many slots available.
 
mauconnfan said:
We're a much better team with Deandre Daniels on it, there is no denying that. Maybe not FF caliber but we win 3-5 more games already.
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I disagree. DD wasn't a big create his own shot guy. He hit a lot of 3s that were set up by Napes and Boat. Because of Napes and Boat and Giffey he had room to work the midrange.

This is to take nothing away from him - he was awesome. But without a 2nd ball handler, he'd have a hard time finding his shot on this team.
 
Cheeky said:
I disagree. DD wasn't a big create his own shot guy. He hit a lot of 3s that were set up by Napes and Boat.
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did you miss the ncaa tourney? where he posted eye popping statlines like 27&10 and 20& 10, all with a ton of unassisted hoops. lots of post ups , triple threat drives to the rim. He didn't shoot off the dribble but his post/mid range game blows facey/brimahs/lubins/hamiltons out the water. That alone would have helped win games this year, he would also be an unquestioned leader brimming with confidence. Theres no doubt daniels staying would change the make up of this team; however it probably would have done nothing for his professional stock. thats the fine line a lot of posters here cant draw.
 
James said:
did you miss the ncaa tourney? where he posted eye popping statlines like 27&10 and 20& 10, all with a ton of unassisted hoops. lots of post ups , triple threat drives to the rim. He didn't shoot off the dribble but his post/mid range game blows facey/brimahs/lubins/hamiltons out the water. That alone would have helped win games this year, he would also be an unquestioned leader brimming with confidence. Theres no doubt daniels staying would change the make up of this team; however it probably would have done nothing for his professional stock. thats the fine line a lot of posters here cant draw.
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You must of forgot his very inconsistent play during the season. I can't deny he was a big part of are championship run, but the kid was absent many games. We absolutely need another ball handler above all.
 
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This is a completely different team with DeAndre Daniels on it. When he declared for the draft, our one legitimate pick and pop threat evaporated into the air. I don't think it's possible to overstate just how much the complexion of the offense changes with him on the court - rather than Facey or Lubin clogging up the lane, another defender has to be committed to the three point line which opens up room for Purvis and Hamilton, making their ball-handling deficiencies less hurtful.

Not to mention, Daniels was a better defensive player than Facey is now. Facey doesn't really protect the rim at all and he sometimes gets lost in pick and roll defense. Daniels was way more valuable on that end than people remember.

Even if Daniels was virtually the same player he was last year (which I find unlikely after he destroyed everybody in the tournament), you'd have to pencil him in for around 15 and 7 a night. That's the difference between this team being where they are now and a 16-4 type squad.
 
champs99and04 said:
This is a completely different team with DeAndre Daniels on it. When he declared for the draft, our one legitimate pick and pop threat evaporated into the air. I don't think it's possible to overstate just how much the complexion of the offense changes with him on the court - rather than Facey or Lubin clogging up the lane, another defender has to be committed to the three point line which opens up room for Purvis and Hamilton, making their ball-handling deficiencies less hurtful.

Not to mention, Daniels was a better defensive player than Facey is now. Facey doesn't really protect the rim at all and he sometimes gets lost in pick and roll defense. Daniels was way more valuable on that end than people remember.

Even if Daniels was virtually the same player he was last year (which I find unlikely after he destroyed everybody in the tournament), you'd have to pencil him in for around 15 and 7 a night. That's the difference between this team being where they are now and a 16-4 type squad.
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Methinks you are assuming a level of consistency that DeAndre Daniels never showed outside of the final 6 games he played at UConn.
 
zls44 said:
Methinks you are assuming a level of consistency that DeAndre Daniels never showed outside of the final 6 games he played at UConn.
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I actually didn't think he was all that inconsistent last year, certainly not any less consistent than Boatright. Daniels had one bad stretch that may have been related to a high ankle sprain, but he was a beast from March on. I'm not necessarily saying he'd be an all-American if he returned this year but he would be a very worthy second option.
 
CAHUSKY said:
Were debating weather a player who dominated the NCAA tourney, was a 2nd rd. NBA draft pick and plays a position we are solely lacking would make this team better? Really?
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No, we aren't. We are debating if he would have been a consistent force this year.

I think he would have been a great player half the time and the other half the time people would wonder why he can't be that guy all the time because he put up 8 and 6.
 
zls44 said:
No, we aren't. We are debating if he would have been a consistent force this year.

I think he would have been a great player half the time and the other half the time people would wonder why he can't be that guy all the time because he put up 8 and 6.
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I think you are understating what his production would have been. But even if what you said was correct, it would put us at least on the bubble.
 
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Waquoit said:
I think you are understating what his production would have been. But even if what you said was correct, it would put us at least on the bubble.
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To clarify: I certainly wish he was on the team for selfish reasons, but understand why he left.
 
Fishy said:
The rally at the end was nice, but meaningless. This felt like a loss five minutes into the game.

1) Kevin Ollie doesn't have this team ready to play. It's February and the games that we could stick in with our defense have evaporated as other teams have improved offensively throughout the year. Ollie's team hasn't improved one iota on offense.

I don't know if Ollie has ever shown himself to be a great coach - it's too early in his career to expect him to be one - but the one thing he has shown is that he is a magician in terms of managing and getting his players to play hard.

That is not happening now.

2) And the talent. People actually think that our roster scares off recruits...I have no idea why. Who gets the blame for this roster? There isn't a single shooter on the team. We have one ball handler. Not a one of them outside of Boatright can get their own shot. Our center is a project, our power forward is a project and our off guard spot is an interchangeable trio of guys who can't shoot or dribble a basketball. Our front court reserves are a pair of players who are MAAC-level talents. "But we win championships after bad years"...not with these parts, kids. We need the projects to get better, we need Omar and Rodney to play like they're capable, but we also need more talent.

3) I have high hopes for Rodney Purvis over the next two years, but I am starting to wonder if KO has ever seen a Ferrari. I think he saw a Fiat once and got confused.

4) Our players are routinely pushed all over the court. Our guys look juiced at the end of games. Nagging injuries sprout like daisies. Cincy and Houston look like they just walked out of a gym - we look soft as hell. Weight room.

5) If there was any justice in this world, Ryan Boatright would grow three inches between now and the draft. The difference between a truly humiliating defeat and a narrow loss was that superhuman little dude. Because of what he did in the the last eight minutes, Kevin Ollie won't be asked what exactly he spent the previous two hours doing.

6) I absolutely hate the AAC. I despise how they're selling us out to help the rest of the conference sell tickets on their Saturday dates and I hate how they are selling us out to fill gaps in weekend programming on Sundays. The defending champion just played a game 1,800 miles from campus in front of a dozen fans. You can hear the high-fives in Bristol, Syracuse and Chestnut Hill.

6) These are dangerous times for UConn athletics. If you want to see what happens when a program gets aced out of a major conference and has to make due in a mid-major league, take a look at Houston. They are the cautionary tale.

We can't afford to string together down years and we're not replacing players the way we need to. We didn't have a player to fill in next to Boatright in the backcourt. After a couple of years of failing to recruit a decent backcourt player, we're going to try to replace both Boatright and Napier next year with Adams. Enoch will help fill in the gap where Lubin and Nolan have thus far failed.

But that's not enough - we need another impact player in the backcourt. If we can weasel back into the Stone derby, great, but we need someone who can shoot and handle the ball. If that's one player, fine. If it takes two players to get that done, then get two.

This year is already f---ed - time to make sure that next year isn't f--ed, too.
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1993, 1997, 2001, 2007, 2010...

it's called prime-time inexperience and youth.

Now, your first #6 (which should have been #1) could very well accelerate this cycle, as recruiting is certainly suffering due to it.
 
Fishy said:
The rally at the end was nice, but meaningless. This felt like a loss five minutes into the game.

1) Kevin Ollie doesn't have this team ready to play. It's February and the games that we could stick in with our defense have evaporated as other teams have improved offensively throughout the year. Ollie's team hasn't improved one iota on offense.

I don't know if Ollie has ever shown himself to be a great coach - it's too early in his career to expect him to be one - but the one thing he has shown is that he is a magician in terms of managing and getting his players to play hard.

That is not happening now.

2) And the talent. People actually think that our roster scares off recruits...I have no idea why. Who gets the blame for this roster? There isn't a single shooter on the team. We have one ball handler. Not a one of them outside of Boatright can get their own shot. Our center is a project, our power forward is a project and our off guard spot is an interchangeable trio of guys who can't shoot or dribble a basketball. Our front court reserves are a pair of players who are MAAC-level talents. "But we win championships after bad years"...not with these parts, kids. We need the projects to get better, we need Omar and Rodney to play like they're capable, but we also need more talent.

3) I have high hopes for Rodney Purvis over the next two years, but I am starting to wonder if KO has ever seen a Ferrari. I think he saw a Fiat once and got confused.

4) Our players are routinely pushed all over the court. Our guys look juiced at the end of games. Nagging injuries sprout like daisies. Cincy and Houston look like they just walked out of a gym - we look soft as hell. Weight room.

5) If there was any justice in this world, Ryan Boatright would grow three inches between now and the draft. The difference between a truly humiliating defeat and a narrow loss was that superhuman little dude. Because of what he did in the the last eight minutes, Kevin Ollie won't be asked what exactly he spent the previous two hours doing.

6) I absolutely hate the AAC. I despise how they're selling us out to help the rest of the conference sell tickets on their Saturday dates and I hate how they are selling us out to fill gaps in weekend programming on Sundays. The defending champion just played a game 1,800 miles from campus in front of a dozen fans. You can hear the high-fives in Bristol, Syracuse and Chestnut Hill.

6) These are dangerous times for UConn athletics. If you want to see what happens when a program gets aced out of a major conference and has to make due in a mid-major league, take a look at Houston. They are the cautionary tale.

We can't afford to string together down years and we're not replacing players the way we need to. We didn't have a player to fill in next to Boatright in the backcourt. After a couple of years of failing to recruit a decent backcourt player, we're going to try to replace both Boatright and Napier next year with Adams. Enoch will help fill in the gap where Lubin and Nolan have thus far failed.

But that's not enough - we need another impact player in the backcourt. If we can weasel back into the Stone derby, great, but we need someone who can shoot and handle the ball. If that's one player, fine. If it takes two players to get that done, then get two.

This year is already f---ed - time to make sure that next year isn't f--ed, too.
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well said and I agree with every single word.
next year is a Big season for Uconn Men's Hoops.
in terms of how that team plays and what recruits we get between now and then.
 
champs99and04 said:
This is a completely different team with DeAndre Daniels on it. When he declared for the draft, our one legitimate pick and pop threat evaporated into the air. I don't think it's possible to overstate just how much the complexion of the offense changes with him on the court - rather than Facey or Lubin clogging up the lane, another defender has to be committed to the three point line which opens up room for Purvis and Hamilton, making their ball-handling deficiencies less hurtful.

Not to mention, Daniels was a better defensive player than Facey is now. Facey doesn't really protect the rim at all and he sometimes gets lost in pick and roll defense. Daniels was way more valuable on that end than people remember.

Even if Daniels was virtually the same player he was last year (which I find unlikely after he destroyed everybody in the tournament), you'd have to pencil him in for around 15 and 7 a night. That's the difference between this team being where they are now and a 16-4 type squad.
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the talent drop from facey daniels is often overstated, and i would declare it the main reason why we are struggling, no DOUBT. people are clamoring for more talent on the roster, asking for KO's head because they seem to think he has lackadaisical recruiting prowess. Insert the versatile DD into this squad and he is our best player 100%. Getting your 'best player' back changes EVERYTHING.

And please , with the whole "dd was inconsistent throughout the year blah blah blah he wouldn't have offered anything". look at his season numbers they were fantastic, he got his niche LATE in the season and was scintillating. I can't believe this mofo 'cheeky' ( he isn't cheeky in the uk sense,just an asinine poster) denigrated DD to guy who only thrived because of napier or boat passes... watch the tape. Its not about how many of his threes were assisted, he killed it for us when it mattered vs some of the best/ well coached teams in the country.AND to boot senior DD would be different than junior DD, and thats not even a leap in thinking.


This brings to me to a topic germane to the convo, of whether DD should have declared early, i really have turned and started to believe he should have stayed, but kind of in a selfish way. just so he can help UCONN, not necessarily his pro prospects. therefore i can't be mad at all at his move.
 
PradaMane said:
You must of forgot his very inconsistent play during the season. I can't deny he was a big part of are championship run, but the kid was absent many games. We absolutely need another ball handler above all.
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i disagree ... above a ball handler, we need a guy over 6'6 who can get buckets. in the mid range, on the block,off pick n pop, in transition and semi transition. we need scoring from wing positions.

People are misinterperting a flaw, we dont need 'ball handling'... as a team we need to increase our overall PASSING TALENT. we need to become a better PASSING team its that simple. prospects on our current roster haven't developed that. especially calhoun facey purvis. our offense looks like guys come to games and meet for the first time, its like they are playing pick up at the park. but the physical talent lets us be above average defensively. And KO isnt a guy who can jumpstart an offensive philosophy IMO, thats not his territory. last year he had a prodigious offensive college talent in napier. KO needs the personnel or his current guys need to really work on their overall feel on offense (KO is however an genius defensive mind as a coach),the bs live ball Turnovers we have are straight up abhorrent
 
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We lost two recruiting classes in the handoff from Calhoun to Ollie, and I put that 100% on Manuel.
 
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RMoore1999 said:
1993, 1997, 2001, 2007, 2010...

it's called prime-time inexperience and youth.

Now, your first #6 (which should have been #1) could very well accelerate this cycle, as recruiting is certainly suffering due to it.
Expand ...

This team isn't remotely as talented as the ones you're citing - not even in the same orbit.

Cassell, Samuel, Brimah, Nolan, Lubin...projecting our current three-star players to the teams above, maybe Brimah carves out a role on some of the rosters and perhaps benefits from the additional talent around him, but the other four aren't on the team.

1992-93...Ollie, Fair, Donny Marshall, Donnyell Marshall, Torraino Walker (for 30 seconds), Burrell, Hayward.

1996-97...Rip, Ricky, Rash, Freeman, Kirk King, Jake, Hardnett, Klaiber

2000-01...Taliek, Caron, Mouring, Robertson, Saunders, Cox, Deng, Wane

2006-2007...Adrien, Austrie, Dyson, Edwards, Johnson, Kelly, Price, Robinson, Thabeet, Wiggins

2009-2010...Dyson, Edwards, Majok, Oriakhi, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Beverly, Kemba, Okwandu, Darius Smith.
 
Fishy said:
This team isn't remotely as talented as the ones you're citing - not even in the same orbit.

Cassell, Samuel, Brimah, Nolan, Lubin...projecting our current three-star players to the teams above, maybe Brimah carves out a role as a reserve, but the other four aren't on the team.
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I think Samuel probably could've made the '07 roster if Ben Eaves could do it. I'm pretty much in agreement about everything else though.
 
Fishy said:
This team isn't remotely as talented as the ones you're citing - not even in the same orbit.

Cassell, Samuel, Brimah, Nolan, Lubin...projecting our current three-star players to the teams above, maybe Brimah carves out a role on some of the rosters and perhaps benefits from the additional talent around him, but the other four aren't on the team.

1992-93...Ollie, Fair, Donny Marshall, Donnyell Marshall, Torraino Walker (for 30 seconds), Burrell, Hayward.

1996-97...Rip, Ricky, Rash, Freeman, Kirk King, Jake, Hardnett, Klaiber

2000-01...Taliek, Caron, Mouring, Robertson, Saunders, Cox, Deng, Wane

2006-2007...Adrien, Austrie, Dyson, Edwards, Johnson, Kelly, Price, Robinson, Thabeet, Wiggins

2009-2010...Dyson, Edwards, Majok, Oriakhi, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Beverly, Kemba, Okwandu, Darius Smith.
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The overall talent on this team without a doubt is below UConn standard. But it's also inexperienced. Bazz, Boat, DD and Niels collectivity had loads of real game experience going into last year.

But more to the point, what really amazes me is how JC was able to recruit in the immediate aftermath of a post-season ban with a league schedule comprised of ECU, UCF, Tulsa, USF etc.

If only he could have played Cuse, LSVL, Pitt, GTown, Vill etc in prime time on ESPN, or could dangle MSG every postseason, imagine how much better recruiting would have been for him.

Ollie hasn't distinguished himself this year, but far and away, our talent acquisition inadequacies stem from our home in the AAC dumpster fire, not KO.
 
Fishy said:
This team isn't remotely as talented as the ones you're citing - not even in the same orbit.

Cassell, Samuel, Brimah, Nolan, Lubin...projecting our current three-star players to the teams above, maybe Brimah carves out a role on some of the rosters and perhaps benefits from the additional talent around him, but the other four aren't on the team.

1992-93...Ollie, Fair, Donny Marshall, Donnyell Marshall, Torraino Walker (for 30 seconds), Burrell, Hayward.

1996-97...Rip, Ricky, Rash, Freeman, Kirk King, Jake, Hardnett, Klaiber

2000-01...Taliek, Caron, Mouring, Robertson, Saunders, Cox, Deng, Wane

2006-2007...Adrien, Austrie, Dyson, Edwards, Johnson, Kelly, Price, Robinson, Thabeet, Wiggins

2009-2010...Dyson, Edwards, Majok, Oriakhi, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Beverly, Kemba, Okwandu, Darius Smith.
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RMoore1999 said:
The overall talent on this team without a doubt is below UConn standard. But it's also inexperienced. Bazz, Boat, DD and Niels collectivity had loads of real game experience going into last year.

But more to the point, what really amazes me is how JC was able to recruit in the immediate aftermath of a post-season ban with a league schedule comprised of ECU, UCF, Tulsa, USF etc.

If only he could have played Cuse, LSVL, Pitt, GTown, Vill etc in prime time on ESPN, or could dangle MSG every postseason, imagine how much better recruiting would have been for him.

Ollie hasn't distinguished himself this year, but far and away, our talent acquisition inadequacies stem from our home in the AAC dumpster fire, not KO.
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Lets see how the so called "Dumpster" teams finish out this year. Tulsa and SMU and Cincy could make runs in the NCAA.
 
CAHUSKY said:
Were debating whether a player who dominated the NCAA tourney, was a 2nd rd. NBA draft pick and plays a position we are solely lacking would make this team better? Really?
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No. He'd clearly make us better. The question is - how much better?

I maintain that his game was dependent on having the best PG, the best 2nd point guard, and the best 3 point shooter in the nation on the perimeter.

If DD was on this team and he touched the ball, then the defense would double or trap and force him to pass it. So he wouldn't be nearly as effective as last year.

But that should be obvious. A guy like Napier makes everybody better. Much better.
 
Cheeky said:
No. He'd clearly make us better. The question is - how much better?

I maintain that his game was dependent on having the best PG, the best 2nd point guard, and the best 3 point shooter in the nation on the perimeter.

If DD was on this team and he touched the ball, then the defense would double or trap and force him to pass it. So he wouldn't be nearly as effective as last year.

But that should be obvious. A guy like Napier makes everybody better. Much better.
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If the defense is set up to double team Daniels, they can't also double team Boatright. Having another weapon like Daniels would have had a huge impact on this team.
 
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Cheeky said:
No. He'd clearly make us better. The question is - how much better?

I maintain that his game was dependent on having the best PG, the best 2nd point guard, and the best 3 point shooter in the nation on the perimeter.

If DD was on this team and he touched the ball, then the defense would double or trap and force him to pass it. So he wouldn't be nearly as effective as last year.

But that should be obvious. A guy like Napier makes everybody better. Much better.
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It probably cost Toronto at least a million dollars for DD services. DD was not paid a million dollars because Bazz hit a few jumpers.
 
Fishy said:
This team isn't remotely as talented as the ones you're citing - not even in the same orbit.

Cassell, Samuel, Brimah, Nolan, Lubin...projecting our current three-star players to the teams above, maybe Brimah carves out a role on some of the rosters and perhaps benefits from the additional talent around him, but the other four aren't on the team.

1992-93...Ollie, Fair, Donny Marshall, Donnyell Marshall, Torraino Walker (for 30 seconds), Burrell, Hayward.

1996-97...Rip, Ricky, Rash, Freeman, Kirk King, Jake, Hardnett, Klaiber

2000-01...Taliek, Caron, Mouring, Robertson, Saunders, Cox, Deng, Wane

2006-2007...Adrien, Austrie, Dyson, Edwards, Johnson, Kelly, Price, Robinson, Thabeet, Wiggins

2009-2010...Dyson, Edwards, Majok, Oriakhi, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Beverly, Kemba, Okwandu, Darius Smith.
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This is a tremendous overstatement. First, three of those three-star guys played meaningful minutes on a national championship team, so I don't see how you can say that on our worst teams Brimah 'maybe' carves out a role and 'the other four aren't on the team'.

Second, do you have really sparkling memories of Cox, Klaiber Darius Smith, Trice, Deng, Dion Carson, Curtis Kelly, Cupp Cormier, Wiggins, et als when they were wearing Husky blue and white? As rough as it's been at times this year, is Terrence Samuel really a downgrade from Cormier? You don't think Lubin can reach the epic heights of Antric Klaiber? Nolan makes you yearn for Mandeldove? You wouldn't take Cassell over Darius Smith?

Third, we know a lot of the guys you listed were talented because of what they did in future years, not what they did for these teams. If you took a snapshot after any of those seasons, our opinions would be entirely different. In 1992-1993, Ollie was a below average point with no jumper and a frail frame, Donyell Marshall was a guy who had clear potential but lacked the ability to put it all together and put the team on his back, Donny Marshall was an undersized energy guy with no special talent. "Rickety Moore" had an absolutely horiffic year in 1996-97, Taliek had a lot of the same limitations as Samuel in 2000-2001, sophomore Kemba gave no indication at all of the degree to which he'd explode as a junior. You could say similar things about a number of the other guys.

Everything's become so cataclysmic around here. It's exhausting.
 
Unrelated, and Im making zero inferences here, just that I saw this on ESPN and thought you guys might like to read it. Its an ESPN article about how common negative recruiting has become in college football with testimonies from anonymous Head Coaches. I wonder if this applies to college basketball and what other rival coaches have said to a recruit about Calhoun/Ollie over the last 5 years.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/r...d/12249013/coaches-go-art-negative-recruiting
 
selles said:
This is a tremendous overstatement. First, three of those three-star guys played meaningful minutes on a national championship team, so I don't see how you can say that on our worst teams Brimah 'maybe' carves out a role and 'the other four aren't on the team'.

Second, do you have really sparkling memories of Cox, Klaiber Darius Smith, Trice, Deng, Dion Carson, Curtis Kelly, Cupp Cormier, Wiggins, et als when they were wearing Husky blue and white? As rough as it's been at times this year, is Terrence Samuel really a downgrade from Cormier? You don't think Lubin can reach the epic heights of Antric Klaiber? Nolan makes you yearn for Mandeldove? You wouldn't take Cassell over Darius Smith?

Third, we know a lot of the guys you listed were talented because of what they did in future years, not what they did for these teams. If you took a snapshot after any of those seasons, our opinions would be entirely different. In 1992-1993, Ollie was a below average point with no jumper and a frail frame, Donyell Marshall was a guy who had clear potential but lacked the ability to put it all together and put the team on his back, Donny Marshall was an undersized energy guy with no special talent. "Rickety Moore" had an absolutely horiffic year in 1996-97, Taliek had a lot of the same limitations as Samuel in 2000-2001, sophomore Kemba gave no indication at all of the degree to which he'd explode as a junior. You could say similar things about a number of the other guys.

Everything's become so cataclysmic around here. It's exhausting.
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Just stop.

There was no question even at the time that those rosters were reloading.

This one isn't.
 
djct1999 said:
I think Fishy pretty much nailed it on the head. Something just isn't right. What I watched yesterday was not UConn basketball. It was embarrassing and brought me back to KOs introductory pressor, when he said that "we play for the name on the front of the jersey". Outside of Boatright(and maybe Dham), no one else came even close to that yesterday.
I knew that long term getting shut out of the P5 would cripple the UConn athletic department. I felt then that UConn had a 5-10 year window for that to happen. I now feel that window is much smaller. As Fishy stated, "this is a very dangerous time for UConn athletics."
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Yup. AAC will destroy UConn athletics. Year over year it will get progressively harder to recruit top level talent. The UConn leadership needs to do anything possible to get the hell out of this death spiral and into a P5, even if it has to be heavily subsidized. Otherwise, expect a lot more seasons like this all around. Even women hoops will be taking a hit over time. Mark my words. I hope the state recognizes that UConn sports is a major industry here, and they are letting it go to seed.
 
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