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GT Hoyas coaches under investigation

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As a alumni of G.U. I am frustrated with the administration & it's policies. Hiring a coach & associate who seem to find a ' sick chicken' in their midst & terrorizing her in ways to make her want to ' destroy herself'' is beyond comprehension. What does this say about their hiring policies at the University? This for me not only regards athletics but also scholastic hires!
 
As a alumni of G.U. I am frustrated with the administration & it's policies. Hiring a coach & associate who seem to find a ' sick chicken' in their midst & terrorizing her in ways to make her want to ' destroy herself'' is beyond comprehension. What does this say about their hiring policies at the University? This for me not only regards athletics but also scholastic hires!

Artifact - if this is in fact an accurate reflection of what happened on the women's basketball team that led to the suspension, are you concerned that this is symptomatic of other Hoya athletics? Or is this possibly an isolated incident? Do you know if the coach and the assistant coach worked together before they came to GU?
 
Unimpressed with your broad brush. If you follow national girls basketball news, you'd know those being arrested are high school coaches....

Except of course for Lopez and Dixon. ;)
 
Artifact - if this is in fact an accurate reflection of what happened on the women's basketball team that led to the suspension, are you concerned that this is symptomatic of other Hoya athletics? Or is this possibly an isolated incident? Do you know if the coach and the assistant coach worked together before they came to GU?
I am unaware, at this time, if this incident involves any other Hoya sport coaches with the same 'mind set'. I pray that it is isolated incident. I have no prior knowledge as if these two coaches involved, knew each other before. To me, it represents a spillover of what is occurring, in a large front, at how the University is being administered. We are talking about coaches here, but their is a huge problem with some of the radical professorial hires. Speaking for myself, & sad to say, it seems that everything in Washington, D.C. is going to he_ _!
 
Just looking at the two posted links and with no knowledge of anything about the Georgetown athletic programs I have to say that a suicide attempt is not a balanced reaction to anything that happens in an athletic program (always excepting criminal attacks of physical and/or sexual nature and that does not appear to be the case here.) I am assuming that these two events are related and that the accusations originate from this. While the coaching staff may not have been supportive to this troubled person, when did we as a society designate coaches/teachers as the guardians of college age adults and their courses/programs as the support groups. College level athletics is a tough and competitive environment and one you must earn and not one that is a right. I agree that athletes deserve a nondiscriminatory program free of physical abuse, but to be competitive 'mental anguish' may come with the territory, just as failure to do good course work may lead to the mental anguish of highly critical comments, bad grades and expulsion. And the use of colorful language widespread in society and generally more so in physical occupations like athletics. The Rutgers situation was different in that it included physical abuse and language that goes well beyond 'colorful' to as I remember homophobic, etc.
I would have a different reaction with children's athletics, but by college, the athletes are supposedly adults less capable of intimidation and more capable of making life decisions.
We in this country have a mental health crisis and far too many childhood and young adult suicides and attempted suicides. And we have shifted responsibility from family, friends and medical professionals to teachers, coaches, administrators.
Now as more information comes out my assumptions may prove to be way off base. And a University or AD can choose to hire coaches and fire them based on any criteria, but if they want a good team, the program will be rigorous and demanding and athletes incapable of meeting those demands or who have personality clashes with the coaching staff will be dropped or transfer. Hopefully they will choose to find a program that better matches their commitment/skills or choose intramural sport.
As an aside, Walker recently left Uconn because of unhappiness with the 'program' that Geno runs. She was pretty miserable and transferred somewhere better for her. But she could have stuck around and made a formal complaint about Geno's language and demanding ways. Again - no idea if the GT situation goes far beyond that, but based on the links it might not. And if she had been mentally unstable, it might have lead to more critical life issues.
 
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"As an aside, Walker recently left Uconn because of unhappiness with the 'program' that Geno runs."


UCMiami - I'm pretty sure that Walker left for other reasons.
 
"As an aside, Walker recently left Uconn because of unhappiness with the 'program' that Geno runs."


UCMiami - I'm pretty sure that Walker left for other reasons.
Yes, vtc, Walker left for reasons distinctly other than the basketball program.
 
Yes, vtc, Walker left for reasons distinctly other than the basketball program.
Yes and no - she was failing in terms of practice and was left off one of the road trips and I believe there was a complaint about not getting along with teammates - I got the sense that it was all rolled together.
 
Nope, none of that was involved.

And you know that because .... ?

To my knowledge, no one really knows what happened with Samarie. The most common story I heard was that (a) she never really wanted to come to UConn, but did so because that's what her parents wanted, and (b) she wanted to be closer to her significant other. But there also was a fair amount of confusion about just what she wanted. To me, she seemed like a not-atypical lost teenager.

Nothing I ever heard makes me believe she had particular issues with Geno or her teammates.
That said, unless I'm missing some big parts of the story, I don't know why anyone would be sure what exactly did happen.

http://www.swishappeal.com/2011/1/2...rs-departure-from-uconn-leave-many-astonished
 
good points Vowel... people wanna use the girlfriend as an excuse cause it makes Samari look bad! others left but they "understood"
 
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Sorry - my earlier post 'aside' seems to have taken this off the original topic and the topic of my post. The aside was just to point out that different interpretations of the reasons players leave a program can exist and if it includes an attempted suicide and a complaint against a program people can pile on pretty quickly - and based on the complaints as reported so far, they do not seem to rise to the level of causing a 'stable' person to attempt suicide.
 
And you know that because .... ?

To my knowledge, no one really knows what happened with Samarie. The most common story I heard was that (a) she never really wanted to come to UConn, but did so because that's what her parents wanted, and (b) she wanted to be closer to her significant other. But there also was a fair amount of confusion about just what she wanted. To me, she seemed like a not-atypical lost teenager.

Nothing I ever heard makes me believe she had particular issues with Geno or her teammates.
That said, unless I'm missing some big parts of the story, I don't know why anyone would be sure what exactly did happen.

http://www.swishappeal.com/2011/1/2...rs-departure-from-uconn-leave-many-astonished
Any none of that is about the teammates, Geno, etc.
 
Sorry - my earlier post 'aside' seems to have taken this off the original topic and the topic of my post. The aside was just to point out that different interpretations of the reasons players leave a program can exist and if it includes an attempted suicide and a complaint against a program people can pile on pretty quickly - and based on the complaints as reported so far, they do not seem to rise to the level of causing a 'stable' person to attempt suicide.
That is true. The reasons you gave surrounding Walker's departure from UCONN were not.
 
Georgetown's head WBB Keith Brown resigned today

From the Washington Post
 
Not knowing the entire involved circumstances, nevertheless, may their now be peace for the players on Georgetown's woman's basketball team!
 
That is true. The reasons you gave surrounding Walker's departure from UCONN were not.


Are you a close personal friend of Ms Walker?
If not, then how do you know the reasons for her departure?

Most people, myself included, only know what was reported at the time (which wasnt much). Those may very well be correct. Or they may not.
 
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Georgetown's head WBB Keith Brown resigned today

From the Washington Post


Wow, two Big East programs with HC turnover in October!

I think it's safe to say that he wasnt forced out for saying a few curse words.
 
Are you a close personal friend of Ms Walker?
If not, then how do you know the reasons for her departure?

Most people, myself included, only know what was reported at the time (which wasnt much). Those may very well be correct. Or they may not.

There were sources of information very close to her and to the program that shared a significant amount of info about the situation. The driving issue was very personal and completely her own business. None of it had to do with treatment by UCONN or her teammates.
 
There were sources of information very close to her and to the program that shared a significant amount of info about the situation.

Which program? Surely not UConn, as they were on record as being stumped by her decisions.
http://www.swishappeal.com/2011/1/2...rs-departure-from-uconn-leave-many-astonished


"None of it had to do with treatment by UCONN or her teammates."

As I said earlier, I agree there's no evidence to support this. That's not the point. It's your certainty that you know exactly what happened and why.
 
ABC affiliate has story and audio. Reportedly some former players are coming forward.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/1...gns-after-verbally-abusing-players-95194.html

Hmm. I only read the text (not listened), but not sure I see a fire-worthy offense.

I believe Geno uses a fair amount of curse words, though I imagine he limits them to describing actions (that was stupid or what were you thinking), as opposed to directing them at players (you're an idiot) which is more demeaning.
 
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Hmm. I only read the text (not listened), but not sure I see a fire-worthy offense.

I believe Geno uses a fair amount of curse words, though I imagine he limits them to describing actions (that was stupid or what were you thinking), as opposed to directing them at players (you're an idiot) which is more demeaning.


I think it was Rich Little on the recording.

Is it legal to make the recording ? Brown must have gotten a good buyout to resign.
 
... Is it legal to make the recording ? ...

Federal law and its regulations on taping phone calls does not apply to locker rooms, unless the locker room chat was sent out over a cell phone to Punxsutawney, PA, and recorded there.
 
I don't have the answer to all of this. It certainly isn't an acceptable way to treat someone. I get it. Abuse isn't appropriate, and technically the language isn't either, although I suspect most coaches do plenty of cursing. And I do find it interesting that some, at least, of the players, supported the coach.

At the same time, there has been plenty of cursing and such at players over the years on numerous levels. Probably accepted to a degree at every level from High School on up to pro. Heck, I was a tubby nerd by any other name, and was belittled and picked on by gym teachers for years. I didn't get above a "D" grade in gym until my Junior year when my gym teacher, an officer in the National Guard, actually took a completely different approach and I actually earned an "A". But my point is "picked on and belittled" as a teaching tool by 4 different gym teachers over 4 years. It didn't work to motivate me, but I suppose there is an idea that it does work. And no one thought anything of it.

That's the dilemma, it looks like as values and ideas of pc behavior have changed, coaches will have to change or else, as well.
 
I don't have the answer to all of this. It certainly isn't an acceptable way to treat someone. I get it. Abuse isn't appropriate, and technically the language isn't either, although I suspect most coaches do plenty of cursing. And I do find it interesting that some, at least, of the players, supported the coach.

At the same time, there has been plenty of cursing and such at players over the years on numerous levels. Probably accepted to a degree at every level from High School on up to pro. Heck, I was a tubby nerd by any other name, and was belittled and picked on by gym teachers for years. I didn't get above a "D" grade in gym until my Junior year when my gym teacher, an officer in the National Guard, actually took a completely different approach and I actually earned an "A". But my point is "picked on and belittled" as a teaching tool by 4 different gym teachers over 4 years. It didn't work to motivate me, but I suppose there is an idea that it does work. And no one thought anything of it.

That's the dilemma, it looks like as values and ideas of pc behavior have changed, coaches will have to change or else, as well.


It is impossible to get a D in gym these days, if you show up, and are properly dressed you get an A. I don't know how you earned an A, there was no criteria for grades. I never got one an A, even though I was well behaved, and played two sports in college

Back to Coach Brown, the definition of abuse is so vague. Is yelling abuse, or just certain four and three letter words ? Does running suicides, or doing push-ups constitute abuse ? I do not think many of the all time great coaches would last very long these days.
 
Some new information in this story...

(WJLA) - Georgetown head women's basketball coach Keith Brown resigned Thursday, the school announced, amid allegations that he has consistently verbally abused his players over the past several seasons.

In audio recordings provided to ABC7 News, Brown can be heard shouting profanities at unidentified players on several occasions. Both of the recordings were taken after a Sept. 6 workout at Georgetown, and in one, he's heard telling a potentially injured player that she was a "dumb duck*."Brown's resignation comes after ABC7 obtained audio of the second-year head coach belittling and cursing out players who crossed him as recently as early last month, sources say, as part of what several current and former players call a pattern of verbal abuse.
Both Brown, the team's second year head coach, and assistant coach Tim Valentine were placed on administrative leave Oct. 1 amid allegations that he verbally abused his players. Sources say that targets of Brown's abuse have been left "broken and demoralized" over their treatment.
Valentine was never accused of verbally abusing players and has returned to the team, the university says.
"You're ****ing with me just to **** with me"
After the Sept. 6 workout, sources say that Brown decided to confront his players about their tendency to get along on the court but not off the court, during which he launched into a profanity-laced tirade.
"I'm being tested," he says. "The ones who know, know that you should never test me because I have no tolerance for foolishness. I don't believe in perpetuating that bull****."
In the recording, Brown goes on to single out one player who wasn't getting along with her teammates as being defiant.
"That was a Georgetown term," Brown said in reference to the word "defiance." "Now I'm going to translate it to you for the Keith Brown ****. (You're) ****ing with me just to **** with me. Is that what it is? If you're being defiant just to be defiant, you're ****ing with me.
"That's how I see it. I'm from the hood. An educated ****** from the hood."
Georgetown officials almost immediately rebuked Brown after hearing the audio.
"That behavior does not meet expectations and standards for the university and its leaders," Georgetown spokesperson Stacy Kerr said. "It's inconsistent with our values and has no place in our community."
Brown screams at potentially injured player
Later in the recording provided to ABC7, Brown can be heard berating a player who punched a wall in frustration, potentially leaving her unable to practice or play. Brown again referred to himself in third person and talked about his own "vocabulary."
"You're a grown God-****ed woman and (you've) been through this **** up and down a hundred times over," he says in the recording. "Your solution to the problem is not to get frustrated and hit a ****ing wall and **** your **** up so we ain't got no (player)."
He concluded his rant by telling the player, "You're a dumb ****."
We had Jake Wald with the Positive Coaching Alliance listen to the recording. His organization is considered a national leader in efforts to change the culture of coaching, and to make sure sports build up instead of tearing down someone’s character.
"Yeah, that's disappointing to say the least," he said."If you imagine a chemistry professor at Georgetown speaking the same way, how would that change your mind about this whole situation? I think they would be run out of the university right away."
And a former player, who at one time greatly admired Coach Brown, made her feelings clear:
"Unless he makes a major life change, I don't think that he should be coaching women's basketball anywhere in the country."
Brown did not respond to numerous attempts to reach him for comment.
Georgetown players rush to Brown's defense
In a statement released after Brown was placed on leave, Georgetown officials said in a statement that they had immediately started an investigation into the coach's behavior when they first learned of the allegations.
"We are taking steps to ensure this investigation proceeds expeditiously, thoroughly and fairly," Georgetown officials said. "It is important to the investigation for students, coaches, and staff to participate openly and honestly, and we have encouraged them to do so."
Brown has his supporters, most notably a group of players who immediately came to their coach's defense when the allegations became public. Though several players admitted that Brown swears at them when they make mistakes, many attributed his demeanor to his demanding attitude and don't take it personally.
"If you take what he says to heart, then it's going to hurt your feelings," freshman forward Shayla Cooper said. "But we're all D1 players in the Big East Conference, so a coach is not going to babysit us."
Both sophomore guard Katie McCormack and freshman guard Jade Martin defended their coach as well, with Martin saying that if players can't handle it, then they can't handle it.
"I think he's a great coach. I don't want to play with anybody else," McCormick said. "I think a lot of this is blown out of proportion."
"There's a line that can be crossed and that line was crossed"
While several current Hoyas came to Brown's defense, at least three of his former athletes strongly believe that their former coach shouldn't be anywhere near the basketball court.
This trio of former Hoyas all played under Brown over the last two years and have moved on from college basketball, but they say they were subject to their coach's verbal abuse. Each of the athlete's names are being withheld.
"Yeah, I've been called like a dumb "F" or a dumb "M-F'er ... It's a completely destructive and harmful environment with what these girls are experiencing now," one former player said about the culture under Brown. "It's upsetting and it brings me back to places I don't like to rethink.
"All that's used for is to bring a young woman's self-esteem and self-worth down. Unless he makes a major life change, I don't think that he should be coaching women's basketball anywhere in the country."
All three players said that the audio obtained by ABC7 is just the tip of the iceberg - they said that the way Brown is heard in the recording is how he normally speaks to his team.
"That was regular dialogue between him and the players," another ex-Hoya said. "Words hurt, especially from people that you consider your family. These are supposed to be people who uplift us."
"I do think that a lot of coaches are really hard on their players. However, there's a line that can be crossed and I think that line was crossed."
Coaches being hard on players to get the maximum results out of them is nothing new, both current and former players say almost universally. However, as another one of Brown's former players said, there's a line between tough love and outright abuse.
"It became a thing that we were so used to that it became kind of a norm," a third former player said. "Why would you put up with someone talking to you that way? You train yourself to get through it."
Verbal abuse in college sports a continuing trend
The verbal abuse of college athletes has become a hot-button issue over the past several months, a trend that is highlighted by the April dismissal of Rutgers head men's basketball coach Mike Rice.
Rice was caught on camera both verbally and physically abusing players at the New Jersey university, scenes that included the use of gay slurs and images of Rice throwing basketballs at his players when they made mistakes.
More recently, Louisville Cardinals women's lacrosse coach Kellie Young was accused of being abusive toward her players. The school has not taken any disciplinary action on her, and according to the Louisville Courier-Journal, school administrators have no planned "next steps" for dealing with the allegations.
 
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