Gov. Ned Lamont proposes $55M investment in Hartford’s XL Center arena

[XLCenterFan]

The CDRA is asking for $100M of taxpayer money. That’s a lot of money for a state that is in considerable financial difficulty. Even after that investment the quasi public venture they are running will continue to lose money, notwithstanding the fact that they are having UConn’s athletic department subsidize the XL. I fully agree that not everything the state does needs to make money, but at some point, it does need to show some fiscal responsibility. Perhaps this request to put yet another multi-million dollars patch on a money losing aging facility is one of those times.

So there's 2 options to me: Spend the money to patch it up, or spend more money to rebuild it. I'm fine with either. I would prefer to have the XL there than to not have it there. Also, the state's finances are in better shape than they were a few years ago, and the rainy-day fund is massive (over $2.5 B).

There will probably be a public hearing on this at some point. We should all attend, or just fire off a copy of this message board and have them read it!

 

[Deepster]

Correct - only I don't see it as a "loss," since I use the arena.
Throughout my life, I've probably been to the HCC/XL about 300 times.

This is the past few years, not including men's hoops games, which I attend regularly:
3-5 Wolfpack games per year (since they've started).
1-2 UCONN hockey games per year (since they've started).
Brought nephews and nieces to some ice thing and monster trucks.
NCAA tourney last year.
Justin Timberlake show.

So, a broke state that's struggling with what to do to fix it (tolls, marijuana, sports gambling) should spend 55 million for monster truck shows and minor league hockey? The last Wolf Pack game I went to had 1,200 people there and they offered 1.00 hot dogs and 2.00 beers.

 

[gioff2323]

Before they spend a dollar, they should evaluate what 100MM would get. I expected more from the Guv, a supposed businessman, but on this issue he is no different than little Danny. But start with an acknowledgement that Hartford does not need a 16K seat arena. How many events in the last decade have been a sell out there? How many have drawn more than 12k paying customers?

As an aside, the NHL is NEVER, EVER, EVER coming back. The NBA is NEVER, EVER, EVER coming. If you believe either is a possibility, then please put the pipe down and get some help.

Start with why do we need an arena in Hartford? You want to attract concerts, AHL, UConn and some specialty events, build a brand new ~10K arena CONDITIONED on Northland doing something, anything with the surrounding space. I know they think they'll be able to attract Tiffany there someday, but I would not do anything more to that arena without them committing to a broader use of the entire space, not 1/2.

Just please stop pouring money down the drain. The building is old and unintersting and no amount of lipstick is gonna make her look good. For crissakes, please stop spending millions in cosmetic upgrades. By the time you complete them, you'll have a nearly 50 year old building that is still 3rd rate and needs to suck off the UConn teet to show "respectable losses".

Are there any adults left in CT?

 

[XLCenterFan]

So, a broke state that's struggling with what to do to fix it (tolls, marijuana, sports gambling) should spend 55 million for monster truck shows and minor league hockey? The last Wolf Pack game I went to had 1,200 people there and they offered 1.00 hot dogs and 2.00 beers.

The state budget is about $18B. $55M is about .03% precent of that.
I would prefer a new, smaller arena, not "upgrades." I have zero issues with spending my tax dollars on an arena I have used 300 times in my life and will continue to use. I think it is important to have a place such as the HCC/XL in our capital city. At the end of the day, people can vote with their feet and their dollars. You don't want the XL there? Don't go.

It looks like we will never agree on this, but that's fine. We agree that we love UCONN hoops, and we can concentrate on that.

 

[J187Money]

>>A $100 million renovation of Hartford’s XL Center arena would dramatically cut annual operating losses at the 16,000-seat venue but not boost revenues enough to attract private investors to the project, a new study shows.

In a 179-page report, Conventions, Sports & Leisure International, a Texas-based consultant, said the renovation would likely cut annual losses of $2 million to $3 million to about $500,000.

However, “it is not anticipated that private financing will be a viable source of project funding,” CSL said in its report to the board of directors of the Capital Region Development Authority Thursday.<<

Alternate access link here<<

So like a 50 year payback. So dumb.

 

[J187Money]

I don’t get how you can spend $100 million and justify it by saying we will lose $500k, instead of $2 million.

just spend $250 mil on a new arena. Smh.

Can you build one for $250M now? Fiserv forum in Milwaukee cost $524M and they pretty much had a clear lot to build it on.

 

[John]

does Hartford even need an arena considering there's decent arenas at Storrs, Mohegan and Bridgeport?

 

[Chief00]

If you are pitching a $100M plan to bail you out from your own fiscal mismanagement, it's probably best if the projections you use at least give you a shot at turning profit. This one does not.

I agree, but again their goal, in my opinion, is to foremost fund their bloated quasi agency non-disclosed salaries and bonuses by allocating funds back to cover that overhead. This proposal is just another vehicle to do that.
The CRDA, to my knowledge, has never turned money back to the State as “profits”, unlike any soundly run enterprise. That is not a goal of theirs either at XL or the Rent. They contract hire third parties to actually do the work - something the state or university could easily do without this expensive middle man.

 

[Deepster]

I have zero issues with spending my tax dollars on an arena I have used 300 times in my life and will continue to use.

That 300 times figure you keep leaning on is ancient history. It makes no sense to wax poetically about times when you may have seen U2 there on the Joshua Tree tour in 1987. I was there that night and it's been a lonnnnnng time since things like that took place there.

Funnel the money to the area near the Yard Goats now before that park becomes an outdated relic.

 

[jibsey]

100 million? The seating and set up inside doesn't change? About 2/3 of the upper level seats are not great and wouldn't a new arena address that?

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Anytime someone uses a derivative nickname for a politician I immediately stop listening to them. I know it's the internet, but you don't HAVE to act like a child.

 

[JohnFSilver]

So, a broke state that's struggling with what to do to fix it (tolls, marijuana, sports gambling) should spend 55 million for monster truck shows and minor league hockey? The last Wolf Pack game I went to had 1,200 people there and they offered 1.00 hot dogs and 2.00 beers.

The state isn't broke. It just has tremendously high pension obligations because it was underfunded for 30 years.

That constrains what you can do because that pension eats up a bigger slice of the pie.

As far as bonding, with no tolls for infrastructure, I find it highly unlikely we will even get $100 million for XL and no chance at $250 for a new building.

I am for a total rebuild to try and make the thing solvent. I also don't trust CRDA to execute on the plan. The casinos have really taken away a lot of events, and they manage their properties better.

 

[Waquoit]

I will say I went to a concert at the XL Center a few months ago and it was awesome. I never would have expected a show at the dump center to be good but it was incredible.

It's OK to be honest. The XL is better for shows than any other arena around, including Mohegan and B'port.

 

[CL82]

What bugs me the most about the XL is how attempts to support it hurt UConn.

• Gampel was built small (8,500) so that it wouldn't complete with the Civic Center (and the New Haven Coliseum).
• We are under building the hockey arena, in part because of XL.
• Our Athletic Department subsidizes the XL by paying high leases while giving up parking and concession revenue. This makes the AD's financials look worse and the CDRA's financials look better. Think about that. XL is hemorrhaging money after UConn subsidizes it.

Now the CDRA is asking for an additional $100M in improvements even though their own (notoriously optimistic) projections do not predict that it will show a profit after them. At some point you have stop dragging Bernie around because he's never coming back to life.

 

[XLCenterFan]

At some point you have stop dragging Bernie around because he's never coming back to life.

This is hilarious. I initially thought it was a Bernie Sanders dig though. Took me a minute to realize what you meant, and I lol'd.

 

[Ts5034]

does Hartford even need an arena considering there's decent arenas at Storrs, Mohegan and Bridgeport?

It seems like this is an endless argument, but in my opinion, Mohegan Sun will always have the money to pay and out bid everywhere else in the state for big time acts. It wont matter if Hartford builds a new state of the art arena. I think the people making these decisions know that, and thats why they are budgeting money for small improvements that will just keep the XL Center above water. Like many have pointed out in these threads before, the XL Center is a ghost town in the summer because all the big concerts are at the Xfinity or Mohegan. Would a new arena change that? I highly doubt it. Thats why the main function of the XL is UConn basketball games. Is the place old and need improvements? Of course, but we are not at the point where the arena is unsafe or people are not attending games because the condition of the place.

 

[Waquoit]

What bugs me the most about the XL is how attempts to support it hurt UConn.

There is no UConn basketball without the XL. There is no UConn hockey without the XL. There is no UConn sports in the big-time without the XL. Blow up the XL if you want, but that doesn't help UConn. The XL is an asset for UConn.

 

[John]

It seems like this is an endless argument, but in my opinion, Mohegan Sun will always have the money to pay and out bid everywhere else in the state for big time acts. It wont matter if Hartford builds a new state of the art arena. I think the people making these decisions know that, and thats why they are budgeting money for small improvements that will just keep the XL Center above water. Like many have pointed out in these threads before, the XL Center is a ghost town in the summer because all the big concerts are at the Xfinity or Mohegan. Would a new arena change that? I highly doubt it. Thats why the main function of the XL is UConn basketball games. Is the place old and need improvements? Of course, but we are not at the point where the arena is unsafe or people are not attending games because the condition of the place.

yes - and Mohegan Sun has hijacked events out of the Hartford convention center too.

 

[John]

There is no UConn basketball without the XL. There is no UConn hockey without the XL. There is no UConn sports in the big-time without the XL. Blow up the XL if you want, but that doesn't help UConn. The XL is an asset for UConn.

if the UConn brand is as strong as we think it is and make it out to be, then it can still thrive being a strictly campus brand.

 

[Chief00]

The state isn't broke. It just has tremendously high pension obligations because it was underfunded for 30 years.

That constrains what you can do because that pension eats up a bigger slice of the pie.

As far as bonding, with no tolls for infrastructure, I find it highly unlikely we will even get $100 million for XL and no chance at $250 for a new building.

I am for a total rebuild to try and make the thing solvent. I also don't trust CRDA to execute on the plan. The casinos have really taken away a lot of events, and they manage their properties better.

Overall, I agree but the problem isn’t all on the contribution to pension side. The problem is also the design and structure of the pension and health benefits - they are too rich. Overtime and legislators travel expenses are two examples of items in pension calculations that shouldn’t be. Additionally, we need to tax pension money going out of state.

 

[Ts5034]

yes - and Mohegan Sun has hijacked events out of the Hartford convention center too.

Exactly, and thats why I think as far as the XL Center renovations go, instead of thinking “Big”, they should be thinking small. The article says that the money would be spent on the lower bowl and the addition of premium seating because that will offer a better ROI. Now, I agree that its insane that the XL Center suites are basically in the roof, but at this point, it is what it is. I said in my other post that the main event of the XL Center is UConn basketball. So in my opinion, any improvements to the arena should be made to offer a better game day experience. I know they just replaced all the seats about 20 years ago, and they seem to be holding up nice, but I think it would be a good idea to replace all the current seats with seats that have cup holders. MSG did a great job of that, and you kill two birds with one stone, new seats = more comfort, and you add a little amenity with the cup holder so people don’t have to constantly hold their drinks the entire time. How much could that actually cost? 5 million for the entire arena? That really is not a lot of money in the big picture of it all.

 

[glastonbury50]

I have total confidence that Lamont will find the most expensive way to run the XL into the ground.

 

[CL82]

There is no UConn basketball without the XL. There is no UConn hockey without the XL. There is no UConn sports in the big-time without the XL. Blow up the XL if you want, but that doesn't help UConn. The XL is an asset for UConn.

I think you pretty much have it backwards. There is no XL center without UConn. Right now UConn is subsidizing an out of date poorly managed arena. The current lease deal makes zero sense for UConn. I think Geno got it right when he suggested that rather having UConn lease there, the XL and UConn should simply split the profit. The only thing the current arrangement does is mask the deficit that the CDRA is running.

 

[John]

Considering the survey the season ticket holders got a few months ago concerning the premium seat renovation plan, how will people who were just sold "forever seats" fare when those seats no longer exist?

 

[Waquoit]

I think you pretty much have it backwards. There is no XL center without UConn.

I forgot you operate in a fact-free environment.

 

[Husky25]

I was at Monster Jam two weeks ago, tomorrow and I filled out the survey they sent too. One of the questions was, "What can we do better?". To which I left a one word answer: Venue.

Even in the 200s the rows are too close together. The only way I got rid of the cricks in my knees (I'm 5' 8-1/2" on a good day) was to straighten them on the drive home and drive with my toes.

Less than a week later, my family sat in Row H of the lower bowl for the Globetrotters. The rows were there are as close as above the concourse, only I didn't only have a 7 year old in tow. The father in the other family is 6'-4". We concluded that at least one seat in every row should be removed, with wider seats installed, but at the end of the day there is no inexpensive solution to put more room between rows.

About 24 hours later, I brought my 7 year old back to the XL Center for the Memphis game. I wrote about it in a different thread, but let's just concede that the arena and it's amenities are not built for 16,000 people as they exist in 2020. I was born in 1977, so I don't know for sure, but dare I say that it wasn't built for 16,000 people in 1970 either.

 

[John]

I forgot you operate in a fact-free environment.

Remove UConn basketball from the XL
vs.
Remove the XL from UConn basketball

You honestly think it's UConn basketball that'll be in trouble???

 

[CL82]

I forgot you operate in a fact-free environment.

Lol, well one of us does apparently, but thanks for doubling down on the notion there would be no UConn hockey or basketball without the XL Center. Those of us whose memories extend before 1974 respectfully disagree.

 

[John]

Lol, well one of us does apparently, but thanks for doubling down on the notion there would be no UConn hockey or basketball without the XL Center. Those of us whose memories extend before 1974 respectfully disagree.

I'd love to know his thought process. The XL is lucky that UConn even plays there at all, they certainly don't hold any sway over UConn basketball.

 

[CTBasketball]

I get yelled at to sit down more at Gampel so I will always love XL for that fact.

Tear it down and we all sit. Sounds lame.