Gov. Ned Lamont proposes $55M investment in Hartford’s XL Center arena

[ConnEd]

One significant problem is that concerts have moved to the casinos and outdoor venues. I went to many a concert in my youth at HCC. But now, if I want to see a show in an arena, I’ve got to schlep (I live west of Hartford) all the way to Ledyard or head to NYC. Part of that is that there aren’t as many touring acts that can fill a bigger arena any more as the music business has become more stratified. I wonder if Providence has suffered a similar fate - being skipped by tours in favor of Mohegan or Foxwoods then on to Boston?

This leads me to believe that without one or two pro teams to support it, a big arena will always struggle in Hartford without something else (music industry?) outside of its control changing too.

 

[Caronimo]

Maybe this will allow for properly working toilets. It's a start but not enough. The NCAA tourney showed what the biggest flaws of the place were and those need to be fixed... I am afraid that calls for a rebuild.

Ned will tax the air we breathe in the building so why not just go big?

 

[HuskyHawk]

One significant problem is that concerts have moved to the casinos and outdoor venues. I went to many a concert in my youth at HCC. But now, if I want to see a show in an arena, I’ve got to schlep (I live west of Hartford) all the way to Ledyard or head to NYC. Part of that is that there aren’t as many touring acts that can fill a bigger arena any more as the music business has become more stratified. I wonder if Providence has suffered a similar fate - being skipped by tours in favor of Mohegan or Foxwoods then on to Boston?

This leads me to believe that without one or two pro teams to support it, a big arena will always struggle in Hartford without something else (music industry?) outside of its control changing too.

The Dunk isn't much of a concert venue. I live 20 minutes away and 20 minutes from Xfinity Center in Mansfield MA. Shows seem to go to Boston Garden and sometimes Mohegan. Any show that can play there doesn't hit the Dunk. Xfinity gets shows that hit the similar outdoor venue in Hartford. Smaller shows go to Foxwoods and to the Boston outdoor venue in the Seaport. There's not much for those smaller areas like Worcester and Providence.

 

[Caronimo]

The Dunk isn't much of a concert venue. I live 20 minutes away and 20 minutes from Xfinity Center in Mansfield MA. Shows seem to go to Boston Garden and sometimes Mohegan. Any show that can play there doesn't hit the Dunk. Xfinity gets shows that hit the similar outdoor venue in Hartford. Smaller shows go to Foxwoods and to the Boston outdoor venue in the Seaport. There's not much for those smaller areas like Worcester and Providence.

I will say I went to a concert at the XL Center a few months ago and it was awesome. I never would have expected a show at the dump center to be good but it was incredible. The place has potential and always feels like a home to me, but it needs a lot more work than 55 mill

 

[CL82]

CDRA has to develop a plan that shows a reasonable ROI over a reasonable period. If they can't then just sell the place, if you can find a buyer. In the meantime, UConn and the XL need a new deal or UConn should only use the place a few times a year when the kids are on break or when the opponent justifies it. We can't afford what we pay to use it. I'm pretty confident that we make more money at Gampel given the difference in overhead, parking revenues, and bookstore sales.

 

[John]

I'm an XL season ticket holder, and as much as it'd hurt me, I've long felt they need to pull out of the XL with the exception of a handful of games, maybe 3 max.

 

[Deepster]

Anyone who yearns for or thinks of Hartford Civic/XL as a current or future concert venue needs to get out of the 1990's.

Iron Horse, Infinity Hall, Mohegan, Foxwoods, Xfinity have all become newer and/or better facilities to see live music.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Maybe it's Ned Ryerson, not Lamont?

Needle nose Ned?

 

[Austin316]

No sports club will come here with the arena as is. It may never happen again (RIP Whalers) but if it did at least XL can be up to date on amenities.

 

[Palatine]

No sports club will come here with the arena as is. It may never happen again (RIP Whalers) but if it did at least XL can be up to date on amenities.

NO sports team will come to a state losing population, jobs, Fortune 500 companies. For good measure add in high taxes and with no growth prospects on the horizon. No team in their right mind would move to the state.

 

[gampelcrazies]

Freimuth and his CRDA no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt. In exchange for my seat donations I was promised I could keep those seats as long as I continued the donation. Now we are putting luxury boxes and premium seating, which in theory will produce greater revenue on top of my seats. Thus, breaking the promise UConn made.
So while it’s untruthful and unethical it’s also bad business. Elsewhere, entertainment failure Freimuth, talks about seats that could be used for all events - as he fantasizes about the upscale luxury market’s appeal for the Hartford Wolfpack, who he has made the building’s top tenant by giving them priority on game dates. Something tells me this is going to end similar to all of Fremuth’s other XL Center ideas. This time $100 million wasted.

UConn isn't going to break a promise if they renovate the XL. They will offer you the same seat or if it doesn't exist it will be a comparable seat.

 

[Austin316]

NO sports team will come to a state losing population, jobs, Fortune 500 companies. For good measure add in high taxes and with no growth prospects on the horizon. No team in their right mind would move to the state.

 

[XLCenterFan]

Before people comment in this thread, they should list how often they attend the XL Center. I have attended roughly 10 events a year there since about 1990. That's 300 times.

I must say that I am glad to see Lamont throwing a few bucks at the arena. If I'm going to sip some Lil' Heaven and watch my games/shows, I wouldn't mind a slight upgrade!

 

[huskymedic]

>>A $100 million renovation of Hartford’s XL Center arena would dramatically cut annual operating losses at the 16,000-seat venue but not boost revenues enough to attract private investors to the project, a new study shows.

In a 179-page report, Conventions, Sports & Leisure International, a Texas-based consultant, said the renovation would likely cut annual losses of $2 million to $3 million to about $500,000.

However, “it is not anticipated that private financing will be a viable source of project funding,” CSL said in its report to the board of directors of the Capital Region Development Authority Thursday.<<

Alternate access link here<<

 

[SubbaBub]

Unfortunately, that arena is dead and no money is going to fix it. Without a major anchor attraction, it’s pissing away good money after bad. Get an NHL team in and do it right. Concert venues have eaten up that business and the Wolfpack isn’t the answer.

Yup, this is it. For a time there was a case to be made for prolonging the building as an interim home for an NHL team while a new arena is built should a team materialize. That case was built on interim renovations and the ability of the AHL, UConn, and concerts filling out enough of the calendar to support the effort.

That time has passed, this would be the third or fourth major renovation. UConn ticket sales are down and can not justify the size of the building. The AHL never took off (lol), and the civic center isn't competitive (or attractive) as a concert venue.

Take the $55M and build UConn a hockey rink. Then think real hard about if you want to continue hosting UConn games in the Hartford area. If the answer is yes, then figure out how to build an appropriate arena.

The current situation is a subsidy for Downtown Hartford, LAZ Parking and the seven restaurants that benefit from these events. Sell the land to Avalon or some other condo developer. The area is a ghost town on non-event nights.

 

[CL82]

So by investing $100M in renovation of the XL Center, it would "likely" cut annual losses of $2 million to $3 million to about $500,000. Oh and then there's this little nugget:

The financial projections assume CRDA will acquire the atrium and retail space outside the arena to expand the existing concourse and add more concessions and services.

Uh, good luck with that.

 

[John]

Yup, this is it. For a time there was a case to be made for prolonging the building as an interim home for an NHL team while a new arena is built should a team materialize. That case was built on interim renovations and the ability of the AHL, UConn, and concerts filling out enough of the calendar to support the effort.

That time has passed, this would be the third or fourth major renovation. UConn ticket sales are down and can not justify the size of the building. The AHL never took off (lol), and the civic center isn't competitive (or attractive) as a concert venue.

Take the $55M and build UConn a hockey rink. Then think real hard about if you want to continue hosting UConn games in the Hartford area. If the answer is yes, then figure out how to build an appropriate arena.

The current situation is a subsidy for Downtown Hartford, LAZ Parking and the seven restaurants that benefit from these events. Sell the land to Avalon or some other condo developer. The area is a ghost town on non-event nights.

It'll hurt me personally fan-wise but UConn has really got to think about bailing out of Hartford save maybe 2-3 games a year.

 

[Chin Diesel]

So by investing $100M in renovation of the XL Center, it would "likely" cut annual losses of $2 million to $3 million to about $500,000. Oh and then there's this little nugget:

Uh, good luck with that.

It sounds like a great deal. Invest $100M and recover that money in 35-45 years.

 

[CL82]

It sounds like a great deal. Invest $100M and recover that money in 35-45 years.

You mean recover that money never because even under the projections losses continue.

 

[uconnric]

Typical Lamont. Anything worth doing is worth doing half-arsed.

You’re right. We should do nothing and let the arena go to hell. You think a complete overhaul would pass the legislature? What do you propose ?

 

[Chin Diesel]

You mean recover that money never because even under the projections losses continue.

You must not be familiar with gov savings. Reducing losses from $2M to $500k is saving money, not results ng the amount of loss.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I don’t get how you can spend $100 million and justify it by saying we will lose $500k, instead of $2 million.

just spend $250 mil on a new arena. Smh.

 

[Watchdog]

I heard that is what happened when Gampel was built. Original plan was for a bigger arena. By the time they got through all the red tape they had to scale it back because the money allocated wouldn't buy as much. Not sure if this was true. Was told this by an engineering professor who I did some work with.

There was also a story that the politicos didn't want an arena on campus that would be large enough to justify pulling all games out of Hartford. Thus, make Gampel smaller and keep revenue flowing in Hartford too.

 

[Chief00]

You mean recover that money never because even under the projections losses continue.

Good point, but the real point is I imagine some of the bonding gets allocated back to pay various administration overhead at the quasi CRDA gov’t agency. In other words, this isn’t really primarily about the XL Center and UConn sports, it’s a pile of money that could be used to pay bloated salaries, bonuses, meals and entertainment for former political hacks without the disclosure requirements of state government. In short, it’s another example where corruption is legalized in CT.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

You’re right. We should do nothing and let the arena go to hell. You think a complete overhaul would pass the legislature? What do you propose ?

Sell the place outright and UConn cuts all ties.

 

[CL82]

Good point, but the real point is I imagine some of the bonding gets allocated back to pay various administration overhead at the quasi CRDA gov’t agency. In other words, this isn’t really primarily about the XL Center and UConn sports, it’s a pile of money that could be used to pay bloated salaries, bonuses, meals and entertainment for former political hacks without the disclosure requirements of state government. In short, it’s another example where corruption is legalized in CT.

If you are pitching a $100M plan to bail you out from your own fiscal mismanagement, it's probably best if the projections you use at least give you a shot at turning profit. This one does not.

 

[XLCenterFan]

I don't understand why people feel the need to make money off of everything. As a lifelong resident and tax-payer, I understand that not everything we spend money on as a society has to have a profit on the back end - this isn't a publicly traded company. As a tax-payer who loves attending events at the XL, I will gladly take the upgrades if it means I can attend more events and enjoy Lil' Heaven in the capital city. I understand that not EVERY venture can lose money. But in this instance, it is pointless to get upset with $500K-$2M in losses, especially in relation to the state's overall budget. Was anyone at the Memphis game? Who wants that to go away?

 

[Deepster]

I don't understand why people feel the need to make money off of everything. As a lifelong resident and tax-payer, I understand that not everything we spend money on as a society has to have a profit on the back end - this isn't a publicly traded company. As a tax-payer who loves attending events at the XL, I will gladly take the upgrades if it means I can attend more events and enjoy Lil' Heaven in the capital city. I understand that not EVERY venture can lose money. But in this instance, it is pointless to get upset with $500K-$2M in losses, especially in relation to the state's overall budget. Was anyone at the Memphis game? Who wants that to go away?

Yeah, I'll push here.

So you don't care if we lose money on a refurb of a really outdated arena so you can attend more events in Hartford. What are the non-UConn events you've been to at XL in the last 2 years?

 

[XLCenterFan]

Yeah, I'll push here.

So you don't care if we lose money on a refurb of a really outdated arena so you can attend more events in Hartford. What are the non-UConn events you've been to at XL in the last 2 years?

Correct - only I don't see it as a "loss," since I use the arena.
Throughout my life, I've probably been to the HCC/XL about 300 times.

This is the past few years, not including men's hoops games, which I attend regularly:
3-5 Wolfpack games per year (since they've started).
1-2 UCONN hockey games per year (since they've started).
Brought nephews and nieces to some ice thing and monster trucks.
NCAA tourney last year.
Justin Timberlake show.

 

[CL82]

I don't understand why people feel the need to make money off of everything. As a lifelong resident and tax-payer, I understand that not everything we spend money on as a society has to have a profit on the back end - this isn't a publicly traded company. As a tax-payer who loves attending events at the XL, I will gladly take the upgrades if it means I can attend more events and enjoy Lil' Heaven in the capital city. I understand that not EVERY venture can lose money. But in this instance, it is pointless to get upset with $500K-$2M in losses, especially in relation to the state's overall budget. Was anyone at the Memphis game? Who wants that to go away?

The CDRA is asking for $100M of taxpayer money. That’s a lot of money for a state that is in considerable financial difficulty. Even after that investment the quasi public venture they are running will continue to lose money, notwithstanding the fact that they are having UConn’s athletic department subsidize the XL. I fully agree that not everything the state does needs to make money, but at some point, it does need to show some fiscal responsibility. Perhaps this request to put yet another multi-million dollars patch on a money losing aging facility is one of those times.