Goodrich Starting Ahead of Diggins | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Goodrich Starting Ahead of Diggins

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Thanks. I hope she does the same as a pro or it could be a very short career.
 
Goodgood said:
Yep. The stats will show the biggest reason ND beat (not dominated, dominated means you stomp the other team by 18+)) UConn.

UConn 1 - 4-15, 2-4(3pt), 5 assist, 7 turnover
UConn 2 - 11-31, 0-5(3pt), 3 assist, 8 turnover
UConn 3 - 5-15, 0-2(3pt), 6 assist, 5 turnover
UConn 4 - 3-15, 0-3(3pt), 8 assist, 6 turnover
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I knew someone would mention my use of the word "dominate." I wasn't talking scoreboard or statistics; I'm talking confidence, belief that her team would win and controlling the game. Diggins was ND's most important player and she instilled confidence in her teammates. She didn't need to dominate statistically in order to dominate the game. She made big plays in big moments to win games and it didn't matter if she had already turned the ball over several times or missed more shots than she made. As Geno often says, it's not how many, it's when. That's what winners do. Geno: "That's what All-American guards do," Geno Auriemma said. "I've had a couple in my lifetime. They make plays. They make them when they need to be made. That's what makes them who they are."

She was the most important player on a ND team that defeated UConn 7 out of 8 games before last season's Final Four.
 
UConnCat said:
I knew someone would mention my use of the word "dominate." I wasn't talking scoreboard or statistics; I'm talking confidence, belief that her team would win and controlling the game. Diggins was ND's most important player and she instilled confidence in her teammates. She didn't need to dominate statistically in order to dominate the game. She made big plays in big moments to win games and it didn't matter if she had already turned the ball over several times or missed more shots than she made. As Geno often says, it's not how many, it's when. That's what winners do. Geno: "That's what All-American guards do," Geno Auriemma said. "I've had a couple in my lifetime. They make plays. They make them when they need to be made. That's what makes them who they are."

She was the most important player on a ND team that defeated UConn 7 out of 8 games before last season's Final Four.
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Spot-on!

There can be no question about Skylar's skill and leadership at ND, highlighted by her frequent success vs. UConn. She is an excellent player but so far has not been as successful as many expected her to be in her heavily hyped rookie season in the WNBA.

While I acknowledge her skill and leadership (again, in case anybody missed it), there are two traits that have not endeared her to non-ND fans, especially the ones here (on this board and in this state).

Her on-court mannerisms, including both her emotional outbursts and the persistent attention to her hairband, were often caught on-camera and became difficult to digest as ND pulled out victory after victory.

She also is inclined (excessively, even obnoxiously, to some) to self-promotion. It started when she committed to ND (big press conference, flashy display of her ND jersey, etc.) and continued at ND through her reference to "my fans" and public discussion of her twitter account.

These side issues do not detract from her quality as a player or a person, but they have fueled much of the discussion here.

There are two reasons she got drafted highly: she is good and the Tulsa team was bad. Not a good recipe for success by a small guard. I hope she improves and I expect she will. I wish her well, but I confess that I am glad she is no longer around to torment us UConn fans.
 
UConnCat said:
I knew someone would mention my use of the word "dominate." I wasn't talking scoreboard or statistics; I'm talking confidence, belief that her team would win and controlling the game. Diggins was ND's most important player and she instilled confidence in her teammates. She didn't need to dominate statistically in order to dominate the game. She made big plays in big moments to win games and it didn't matter if she had already turned the ball over several times or missed more shots than she made. As Geno often says, it's not how many, it's when. That's what winners do. Geno: "That's what All-American guards do," Geno Auriemma said. "I've had a couple in my lifetime. They make plays. They make them when they need to be made. That's what makes them who they are."

She was the most important player on a ND team that defeated UConn 7 out of 8 games before last season's Final Four.
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She was mentally dominant when things went her way not so much when they didn't. She like Prahalis is given to pouting. Her biggest asset was her ability to draw fouls often through terrible calls and converting at the foul line.

She never won a state title in basketball, she never won a NC in college, she won 1 Big East tourney title. She is not dominant. She IS a marketable image.
 
How do you go into a National Championship game against a team you beat 3 times and play as bad as she played? Maybe I should say shoot as bad as she shot. Skyler Diggins is obviously a pretty good player, but it ends there. Over rated IMO. It would help if she could lose that sense of entitlement/chip on shoulder thing.
 
Icebear said:
No, not really DC. Not as a shooter. Keep pressure on her at all and she struggles. She is good not great. 3 to See sold her as great. ESPN overly focused on selecting 3 seniors when there were numerous underclasswomen who would have been better choices.
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what ESPN did isnt Skylar's fault. too bad she's getting all the flack for it
 
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DaddyChoc said:
what ESPN did isnt Skylar's fault. too bad she's getting all the flack for it
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No, but she certainly played it up on Twitter and numerous other media formats and bought into the ESPN deal.
 
Five words sum up much of this entire thread: "post hoc ergo propter hoc."
 
Perhaps what I am going to say is unsportsmanlike.
Maybe it's petty
It may run contrary to the way we are supposed to comport ourselves on the boneyard, but...
I am happy that Skylar is performing poorly.
Her attitude, ego and showmanship throughout her career and the way she rubbed ND's win in UConn's face were disturbing.
Her non-playing actions made me dislike her.
I hope she continues down her current path.
 
Skylar's early years she had a a team that was also built to win a NC. Her soph/jr yr IMO N Dame was the team with Baylor. They had talent depth and experience at every position. She is a terrific player obviously. But she is no game changer as a point guard! And as a 2 guard, she is not a great shooter. And without superior talent on the floor like she had in college, she looks like a mere mortal. I bet Odyssey Sims could replace Skylar right now and improve that team significantly. I want Skylar to succeed to help W B Ball! All her twitteree's are important to the game! She is just not my cup of tea. But she will have a long and great career I would think. I don't think it will be prolific. As always, I could be wrong!
 
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doggydaddy said:
In those twelve games her 2 point shooting is around the same, her scoring is down, her assits are down and her TO's are up.

You made several excuses, including the 3 point line, the fatigue factor, the teammate factor.

I expect her to improve, but there is no need to sugarcoat her performance to date.
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Feel free to point out where I mentioned anything about fatigue.
 
doggydaddy said:
And I don't believe Montgomery was ever one of the 3toC, or anything like that.
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Oh please. There were plenty of fools who thought she should have been selected first overall in 2009, ahead of Angel McCoughtry. She's not the second, third, or even fourth best player from that class.
 
TheTruthBelow said:
Oh please. There were plenty of fools who thought she should have been selected first overall in 2009, ahead of Angel McCoughtry. She's not the second, third, or even fourth best player from that class.
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Not too many around here ever said that.
 
TheTruthBelow said:
Feel free to point out where I mentioned anything about fatigue.
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You said "Another point is that Skylar had a much more demanding senior season that Goodrich, who flew under the radar and didn't have high expectations, like trying to win a National title, along with the pressures of the media. Sylar pretty much carried ND, while playing a very demanding schedule and expectations to win. She's probably exhausted and is not used to this type of wear and tear on her body due to not having a break."

You didn't use the word fatigue, but are you denying that is what you were saying? Really?
 
TheTruthBelow said:
Oh please. There were plenty of fools who thought she should have been selected first overall in 2009, ahead of Angel McCoughtry. She's not the second, third, or even fourth best player from that class.
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I get it. You don't think much of Montgomery.

Doesn't mean you have to insult fans that did.

And what does a few fans thinking Montgomery should have been drafted 1st have to do with the incredible attention Diggins got from ESPN and the rest of the media?
 
Kudos to ETT for starting a thread that has kept on going..and going..and going....for 5 days - about Skylar, no less. Wire Chief is right (see Ah, Ah, Ah post). We ARE bored. Will it be October soon?? Will someone get a look at unofficial practice games and give us some news, some hope, some something???
 
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TheTruthBelow said:
Oh please. There were plenty of fools who thought she should have been selected first overall in 2009, ahead of Angel McCoughtry. She's not the second, third, or even fourth best player from that class.
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You were one of the primary people I had in mind regarding "post hoc ergo propter hoc," though some of the people ripping Diggins also were guilty of this. The original thrust of the thread was to undermine the legitimacy of "3 to see" based on the fact that Diggins now has been replaced as a starter by Goodrich. You came up with several reasons in defense of Diggins. They are dubious to various degrees, but the biggest problem with them is only one applies at all to the matter at hand, a defending rationale for why Diggins should be replaced by Goodrich. Even with that dubious assertion I guarantee you weren't thinking before the season started: "Hmm, Diggins has had more to deal with than Goodrich, I predict she'll be replaced by Goodrich as a starter." Your use of that as a defense then, along with all your other defenses, are "post hoc ergo propter hoc" or, in ordinary terms, throwing whatever you can against the wall to see what will stick.

I had to respond to this particular post. TheTruthBelow as a handle by someone who resorts to post hoc reasoning is troublesome enough. Referring to fans as fools detracts immeasurably further. For the record, I never thought Montgomery was as good as McCoughtry. I might even have called an ESPN analyst a fool for billing Montgomery as "the one to see." Yet I would not call a fan that, any more than I would ever call TonyC or stwainfan fools for some of the stuff they come up with. Your pejorative remark reveals an unwarranted disdain compounding your post hoc reasoning that suggests you should avoid fan boards of different followings from yours.
 
doggydaddy said:
You said "Another point is that Skylar had a much more demanding senior season that Goodrich, who flew under the radar and didn't have high expectations, like trying to win a National title, along with the pressures of the media. Sylar pretty much carried ND, while playing a very demanding schedule and expectations to win. She's probably exhausted and is not used to this type of wear and tear on her body due to not having a break."

You didn't use the word fatigue, but are you denying that is what you were saying? Really?
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Really? I actually did not say any of that. You're attributing someone else's words to me.
 
FairView said:
Perhaps what I am going to say is unsportsmanlike.
Maybe it's petty
It may run contrary to the way we are supposed to comport ourselves on the boneyard, but...
I am happy that Skylar is performing poorly.
Her attitude, ego and showmanship throughout her career and the way she rubbed ND's win in UConn's face were disturbing.
Her non-playing actions made me dislike her.
I hope she continues down her current path.
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And if a Lady Vols fan said the same about DT, exactly how would you differentiate?
 
diggerfoot said:
They are dubious to various degrees, but the biggest problem with them is only one applies at all to the matter at hand, a defending rationale for why Diggins should be replaced by Goodrich. Even with that dubious assertion I guarantee you weren't thinking before the season started: "Hmm, Diggins has had more to deal with than Goodrich, I predict she'll be replaced by Goodrich as a starter." Your use of that as a defense then, along with all your other defenses, are "post hoc ergo propter hoc" or, in ordinary terms, throwing whatever you can against the wall to see what will stick.
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LOL.

I have not mentioned Goodrich's name a single time in this thread. I have said that I expected Diggins to struggle, that the WNBA is different than it was 11 years ago (which is undeniably true), and that it was too early to judge Diggins so harshly.
 
Suebird10fan said:
And if a Lady Vols fan said the same about DT, exactly how would you differentiate?
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We wouldn't even know about it since we don't read the Tenn discussion boards. BTW, Gail Goodrich is a much better player than Skylar.
 
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doggydaddy said:
I get it. You don't think much of Montgomery.

Doesn't mean you have to insult fans that did.

And what does a few fans thinking Montgomery should have been drafted 1st have to do with the incredible attention Diggins got from ESPN and the rest of the media?
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A quick search gives me this NYTimes piece: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hjW0J7GadIMJ:thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/uconns-montgomery-is-worth-the-price-of-admission/ &cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

...and this final mock draft by WNBA.com, which has Montgomery going first overall: http://www.wnba.com/draft2009/mock_draft_090406.html

...as well as this one from The Seattle Times: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/storm/2009/04/07/mailbag_my_wnba_mock_draft.html

Sure, just a few fans.
 
TheTruthBelow said:
It was more than a few fans. A quick search gives me this NYTimes piece: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...price-of-admission/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

...and this final mock draft by WNBA.com, which has Montgomery going first overall: http://www.wnba.com/draft2009/mock_draft_090406.html

...sure, just a few fans.
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Wow, you found two people that would have taken Mongomery 1st. You make is sound like a travesty.

Has McCoutry been better? Of course.

Your pointing out these two articles and calling them fools for their opinion just proves out what I said.

You don't like Montgomery. And there is no way she got as much attention as Diggins.
 
doggydaddy said:
Wow, you found two people that would have taken Mongomery 1st. You make is sound like a travesty.

Has McCoutry been better? Of course.

Your pointing out these two articles and calling them fools for their opinion just proves out what I said.

You don't like Montgomery. And there is no way she got as much attention as Diggins.
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I added another one from The Seattle Times, so that's two leading newspapers and the WNBA's official website. Clearly, Renee received no love from the national media, and it was just "a few fans" who thought she should have been the first pick. Where are all these articles pegging Diggins as the first pick?
 
TheTruthBelow said:
I added another one from The Seattle Times, so that's two leading newspapers and the WNBA's official website. Clearly, Renee received no love from the national media, and it was just "a few fans" who thought she should have been the first pick. Where are all these articles pegging Diggins as the first pick?
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Are you seriously trying to say that Montgomery got more attention from the media than Diggins did their senior years?

And the year Montgomery was drafted, there was no Griner or EDD. I know you are not this dumb, so what is your agenda? To trash Montgomery in order to inflate Diggins.

On a Uconn board.

Trolling.
 
TheTruthBelow said:
A quick search gives me this NYTimes piece: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hjW0J7GadIMJ:thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/uconns-montgomery-is-worth-the-price-of-admission/ &cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

...and this final mock draft by WNBA.com, which has Montgomery going first overall: http://www.wnba.com/draft2009/mock_draft_090406.html

...as well as this one from The Seattle Times: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/storm/2009/04/07/mailbag_my_wnba_mock_draft.html

Sure, just a few fans.
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What do those have to do with Boneyard fans. Nothing. In reality it isn't even clear they are fans of Montgomery at all. They are draft articles by the NY Times, Seattle Times and WNBA.com.
 
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