Goodrich Starting Ahead of Diggins

[reno tony]

Get out your throwing rocks for this next comment. Skylar Diggins reminds me of Kelly Faris. You won't find two players who work harder at their fitness or skills. I think either one would do anything to help their team win. And neither one quits when things look bleak. I've seen enough of Skylar against UCONN the last four years and I have a lot of respect for how she approaches the game. And for those complaining about the camera shots and all that... focus on what counts. I don't watch many WNBA games so I don't know how she is doing this season, but I believe when she steps on the court she puts as much into it as anyone. Now let the arrows fly.

 

[TheTruthBelow]

Diggins is shooting 34.7% on her two point shots. Did they move the basket higher for her compared to Bird? Or do you have another excuse for her poor performance.

Excuses? Hardly. If someone wants to suggest that the WNBA isn't different than it was 11 years ago, I'm going to correct them. But nice try at sidestepping the fact that the 3-point line is MUCH farther out now than when Bird was a rookie and that the competition today isn't nearly as diluted today as it was in 2002. None of this is to suggest Skylar would be as good as Sue with the same advantages, but it is fair to say she would be transitioning better.

And no, it's not hard at all for me to admit that Diggins is struggling. I expected her to struggle, for the reasons that Scotter outlined. But she's also showing promise that shouldn't be ignored. I don't know that any other players with the exception of Ticha Penicheiro and Diggins have had multiple double-figure assist outings as rookies. I also like the fact that she's shooting 39.3% from 3 in 12 games over July and August. As with all rookie point guards, she'll become better at avoiding turnovers with experience.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Diggins deserved to be in the 3 to see. The professional game is extremely hard on small guards, particularly small guards that get picked by bad teams with undevloped offensive systems. Succeeding at that height and size takes technical proficiency that must be learned. Anyone with any awareness of the difficulty of that transition would be expecting her to struggle as a rookie. Just look at the history of both the WNBA as well as the NBA.

You make a very sound point, but Skylar will have to really dig down to find her way to real success in the WNBA. During her college career she feasted on a lot of weak sisters. I suspect she will have a middlin' at best WNBA career.

 

[dtbtbtb]

I've seen 4 games of Tulsa in person this season and Diggins was very good in 1 of them and not so good in the other games. That said, it impressed me that she seems to be a real good teammate even when she is on the bench (this is not college). I believe she'll get there and be a real good PG in this league. IMO part of her problem is that at ND she played in a clear system designed by a great coach and maybe she does not have that in Tulsa. Another thing is that she is not that aggressive on defense as she was in college where she'll do her poking the ball from the back and steal it.
Generally speaking defense in the WNBA is really good which makes life harder for Diggins. Even in college when guarded by a real good defensive players she struggled with her shot (she didn't shoot well against UConn in the 4 games last season).
Is she somewhat overrated? probably but it's not her fault that she was nominated one of the 3 to see together with 2 players who are so unusual and dominant in their own right.
She'll be fine!

 

[doggydaddy]

I don't get it other then her shot not falling what is Diggins doing that so bad? if players like Suger Rogers can make her shots do you really think Diggins won't be able t improve?

I've said over and over again that she can improve.

And the game is basketball. Shooting 32% and 27% on 3's are the kiss of death for players. I don't expect her to continue to shoot that poorly.

 

[doggydaddy]

Excuses? Hardly. If someone wants to suggest that the WNBA isn't different than it was 11 years ago, I'm going to correct them. But nice try at sidestepping the fact that the 3-point line is MUCH farther out now than when Bird was a rookie and that the competition today isn't nearly as diluted today as it was in 2002. None of this is to suggest Skylar would be as good as Sue with the same advantages, but it is fair to say she would be transitioning better.

And no, it's not hard at all for me to admit that Diggins is struggling. I expected her to struggle, for the reasons that Scotter outlined. But she's also showing promise that shouldn't be ignored. I don't know that any other players with the exception of Ticha Penicheiro and Diggins have had multiple double-figure assist outings as rookies. I also like the fact that she's shooting 39.3% from 3 in 12 games over July and August. As with all rookie point guards, she'll become better at avoiding turnovers with experience.

In those twelve games her 2 point shooting is around the same, her scoring is down, her assits are down and her TO's are up.

You made several excuses, including the 3 point line, the fatigue factor, the teammate factor.

I expect her to improve, but there is no need to sugarcoat her performance to date.

 

[Scotter]

You make a very sound point, but Skylar will have to really dig down to find her way to real success in the WNBA. During her college career she feasted on a lot of weak sisters. I suspect she will have a middlin' at best WNBA career.

Weak sisters like UConn?

 

[Icebear]

Weak sisters like UConn?

She rarely had good numbers against UCONN although she did plenty of damage with well timed baskets.

What numbers she had often came against lesser competition.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Weak sisters like UConn?

As Kara Lawson pointed out in the Semi-Final analysis, Skyler was contained by UConn throughout the 4 games in the 2012=13 season.

 

[xHunt3r]

I think it was easy to predict how Skylar's would do in the WNBA, if you looked at how she did against top competition last year (Baylor and UConn).

Baylor - 4-19, 0-5(3pt), 7assist, 3turnover
UConn 1 - 4-15, 2-4(3pt), 5assist, 7turnover
UConn 2 - 11-31, 0-5(3pt), 3assist, 8turnover
UConn 3 - 5-15, 0-2(3pt), 6assist, 5turnover
UConn 4 - 3-15, 0-3(3pt), 8assist, 6turnover

In those 5 games she shot 28.42%, 10.52%(3pt), 29assist, 29 turnovers. Those numbers translate directly to her first few months in the league. She has improved her numbers(shooting %) from there, but that came with moving to bench and play less minutes. I'm sure she can improve from this season on. It will be interesting to see what her actually ceiling is.

 

[tonehill68]

This thread is crazy....Why can't we state the fact that Skylar is not starting? Or that she is struggling with her shot? Is this not true? I just can't see why people get all bent out of shape when facts like these are mentioned on this board? I've also read when posters are clearly saying that "she will/has time to improve" and still get attacked for their opinion. No one here is saying that isn't a good basketball player so I don't get it. She is definitely not playing well so why can't we talk about that on here?

 

[doggydaddy]

This thread is crazy....Why can't we state the fact that Skylar is not starting? Or that she is struggling with her shot? Is this not true? I just can't see why people get all bent out of shape when facts like these are mentioned on this board? I've also read when posters are clearly saying that "she will/has time to improve" and still get attacked for their opinion. No one here is saying that isn't a good basketball player so I don't get it. She is definitely not playing well so why can't we talk about that on here?

Uh...we are stating all that. We are talking about it.

 

[msf22b]

Skylar never was a excellent or even good % shooter.

Except in crunch time of several UConn games I recall

 

[doggydaddy]

Except in crunch time of several UConn games I recall

It's so wonderful of you to remind us. Thanks.

 

[msf22b]

It's so wonderful of you to remind us. Thanks.

Gosh, it's been so dead around here this summer, I'll think of something to wake this place up. Doggy, we need a good old-fashioned row.

But its cool and crisp in Vermont, thinking about the prospects of a new season…BB and skiing.

 

[pinotbear]

Gosh, it's been so dead around here this summer, I'll think of something to wake this place up. Doggy, we need a good old-fashioned row.

.

"..a really stupid..and futile gesture be made on somebody's part. And, [he's] just the guy to do it!"

 

[Go/huskies]

Enjoy

 

[Fightin Choke]

I think it was easy to predict how Skylar's would do in the WNBA, if you looked at how she did against top competition last year (Baylor and UConn).

Baylor - 4-19, 0-5(3pt), 7assist, 3turnover
UConn 1 - 4-15, 2-4(3pt), 5assist, 7turnover
UConn 2 - 11-31, 0-5(3pt), 3assist, 8turnover
UConn 3 - 5-15, 0-2(3pt), 6assist, 5turnover
UConn 4 - 3-15, 0-3(3pt), 8assist, 6turnover

In those 5 games she shot 28.42%, 10.52%(3pt), 29assist, 29 turnovers. Those numbers translate directly to her first few months in the league. She has improved her numbers(shooting %) from there, but that came with moving to bench and play less minutes. I'm sure she can improve from this season on. It will be interesting to see what her actually ceiling is.

I agree that Skylar did not shoot well in the games against top opponents last season, but she must have done something right as Notre Dame beat UConn 3 out of 4 times last year and the Irish went 30-2 on the season. If Skylar was not a significant part of the reason they were so successful, then look out this season, because everyone is more experienced and Reimer and Allen join the team.

 

[CBus13]

Enjoy

I bet he was hoping she'd be drafted by Chicago instead of Tulsa

 

[doggydaddy]

Gosh, it's been so dead around here this summer, I'll think of something to wake this place up. Doggy, we need a good old-fashioned row.

But its cool and crisp in Vermont, thinking about the prospects of a new season…BB and skiing.

It's been dead?

You missed "as the Plotsie turns"? And the explosion of that new poster, Big Uconn, that left after a few posters disagreed with him?

Plenty of conversation without a good old fashion row, old timer.

 

[doggydaddy]

I agree that Skylar did not shoot well in the games against top opponents last season, but she must have done something right as Notre Dame beat UConn 3 out of 4 times last year and the Irish went 30-2 on the season. If Skylar was not a significant part of the reason they were so successful, then look out this season, because everyone is more experienced and Reimer and Allen join the team.

Of course she was a significant part of the reason they were so successful. She was the leading scorer and assist leader. She was the emotional leader. Not sure why you think anyone is saying anything different.

In spite of her bad shooting and high TO's against Baylor and Uconn, she was able to contribute to help ND win three of those games.

 

[Icebear]

I agree that Skylar did not shoot well in the games against top opponents last season, but she must have done something right as Notre Dame beat UConn 3 out of 4 times last year and the Irish went 30-2 on the season. If Skylar was not a significant part of the reason they were so successful, then look out this season, because everyone is more experienced and Reimer and Allen join the team.

Most of the losses were specific breakdowns by UCONN in execution not great play by SD.

 

[Goodgood]

I agree that Skylar did not shoot well in the games against top opponents last season, but she must have done something right as Notre Dame beat UConn 3 out of 4 times last year and the Irish went 30-2 on the season. If Skylar was not a significant part of the reason they were so successful, then look out this season, because everyone is more experienced and Reimer and Allen join the team.

Skylar was part of the reason but not the main reason. This year, Mcbride killed us and Novasel did same last year. Those two did more damage than Diggins.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Diggins was a threat that needed to be guarded... which left others to produce. Skylar did her job... still has us talking about her!

 

[doggydaddy]

Diggins was a threat that needed to be guarded... which left others to produce. Skylar did her job... still has us talking about her!

No doubt. As I said, her presence made a difference.

Yep, still talking about her. [mod edit:]

 

[EricSD]

Diggins was a threat that needed to be guarded... which left others to produce. Skylar did her job... still has us talking about her!

Of course people will talk about her! She was one of the most heavily hyped players coming out of college EVER. The WNBA equivalent of James, Wade, and Bosch ending up at Miami. Probably the biggest WNBA story ever since there were 3 guaranteed superstars coming out of college who were destined to reinvigorate the WNBA and change its' landscape.

EDD has surpassed expectations. Griner has been solid but unspectacular. Diggins has all but disappeared. She lost her starting spot to another rookie - 5'4" Goodrich. Her PPG average has dropped to below 8 and she's now 4th in the rookie scoring behind Bentley. In her last game she played only 12 minutes, had 0 points, 2 assists and 3 boards.

And if you take into consideration the # of minutes she's played, her Minutes Per Game production is around the level of Bone, Hill, Ruffin-Pratt, and Messeman. Goodrich is the 9th leading scorer of rookies, and it's not out of the realm of reasonableness to say that Diggins is barely one of the best 10 rookies in the league. She's been a colossal disappointment no matter how you slice it. And there are no excuses or reasons that make any sense. The fact is she's struggling big time and given how much she was hyped coming out of college as a sure fire can't miss player, Tulsa has to be scratching their collective heads.

I hope Skyler succeeds in the WNBA. She earned a great deal more of my respect after hearing her comments regarding Griner's coming out. I hope she has a long and successful career. But to pretend that this story isn't news is a bit "ostrich in the sand".

And given how her team dominated UCONN for such a long stretch makes many UCONN fans that much more interested in her career, good, bad or otherwise. Her team practically owned UCONN the last 2 years of her college career. She was a great story in college. This year, basketball has passed her by...

 

[Icebear]

Diggins was a threat that needed to be guarded... which left others to produce. Skylar did her job... still has us talking about her!

No, not really DC. Not as a shooter. Keep pressure on her at all and she struggles. She is good not great. 3 to See sold her as great. ESPN overly focused on selecting 3 seniors when there were numerous underclasswomen who would have been better choices.

 

[UConnCat]

Skylar was part of the reason but not the main reason. This year, Mcbride killed us and Novasel did same last year. Those two did more damage than Diggins.

I don't agree. Diggins was the biggest reason ND dominated UConn for almost 2 years. She controlled ND's offense, made plays to get her teammates shots, made big shots/plays that won games and, perhaps most importantly, made her teammates believe they would win. In the FF semifinal we didn't see that Diggins. UConn kept Diggins out of the middle of the floor and forced her into uncharacteristic mistakes. Her entire on-court persona was different. She was not the confident player we were accustomed to seeing and I'm not sure whether it was the pressure of the moment, the pressure of UConn's defense or for the first time in 2 years she was looking in to the eyes of a very confident UConn team; I suspect it was all of the above. Without their confident leader, we saw a much different Achonwa (couldn't hold on to the ball), a much different McBride (tried to be a hero and took bad shot after bad shot) and a less confident-looking coach (McGraw looked concerned early on and dazed at the end).

 

[Goodgood]

I don't agree. Diggins was the biggest reason ND dominated UConn for almost 2 years. She controlled ND's offense, made plays to get her teammates shots, made big shots/plays that won games and, perhaps most importantly, made her teammates believe they would win. In the FF semifinal we didn't see that Diggins. UConn kept Diggins out of the middle of the floor and forced her into uncharacteristic mistakes. Her entire on-court persona was different. She was not the confident player we were accustomed to seeing and I'm not sure whether it was the pressure of the moment, the pressure of UConn's defense or for the first time in 2 years she was looking in to the eyes of a very confident UConn team; I suspect it was all of the above. Without their confident leader, we saw a much different Achonwa (couldn't hold on to the ball), a much different McBride (tried to be a hero and took bad shot after bad shot) and a less confident-looking coach (McGraw looked concerned early on and dazed at the end).

Yep. The stats will show the biggest reason ND beat (not dominated, dominated means you stomp the other team by 18+)) UConn.

UConn 1 - 4-15, 2-4(3pt), 5 assist, 7 turnover
UConn 2 - 11-31, 0-5(3pt), 3 assist, 8 turnover
UConn 3 - 5-15, 0-2(3pt), 6 assist, 5 turnover
UConn 4 - 3-15, 0-3(3pt), 8 assist, 6 turnover

 

[Stray Cat]

Yep. The stats will show the biggest reason ND beat (not dominated, dominated means you stomp the other team by 18+)) UConn.

UConn 1 - 4-15, 2-4(3pt), 5 assist, 7 turnover
UConn 2 - 11-31, 0-5(3pt), 3 assist, 8 turnover
UConn 3 - 5-15, 0-2(3pt), 6 assist, 5 turnover
UConn 4 - 3-15, 0-3(3pt), 8 assist, 6 turnover

Poo poo to you Goodgood...I would expect this kind of "logic" to be used on The Summitt but not in this superior-being forum. For pete's sake there is more to the game than the offensive side of the ball -- which is all the LV's can pride their self on anymore, and that is a reach too since they don't actually run any offensive sets. Diggins may have been inconsistent at times shooting the ball, but she had a knack for making things happen on BOTH ends of the court, and had an incredible desire to succeed that helped will her team to wins. The best example of this was the Huskies last visit to ND (3 OT's). ND was dead in the water down 7 points, WITHOUT McBride with just around two minutes remaining. There is no way in heck the Huskies should have lost this game given this situation...but somehow, Diggins found a way to win her final game ever at ND.

UConnCat (a distance relative of mine I believe) was right on with his/her assessment:

She (Diggins) controlled ND's offense, made plays to get her teammates shots, made big shots/plays that won games and, perhaps most importantly, made her teammates believe they would win.