Good news for Notre Dame

[huskypantz]

I will give Notre Dame credit for getting out in front of this mess but UNC hasn't just done nothing either. First they suspended 13 players on the 2010 team , vacated all victories from the 08 &09 season,got rid of the football coach ,AD ,Chancellor,Provost ,most of the compliance staff, director of student support& several board members. Plus other reforms I just don't feel like typing FWIW

Ultimately, UConn fans have an issue with how the NCAA treated UNC, not how UNC treated UNC. For obvious reasons.

 

[SAMCRO]

I will give Notre Dame credit for getting out in front of this mess but UNC hasn't just done nothing either. First they suspended 13 players on the 2010 team , vacated all victories from the 08 &09 season,got rid of the football coach ,AD ,Chancellor,Provost ,most of the compliance staff, director of student support& several board members. Plus other reforms I just don't feel like typing FWIW

Sort of..., those self imposed sanctions/suspensions were for an assistant coach receiving personal loans from an NFL agent, players receiving jewelry, trips, and other gifts from people outside the program, and a tutor providing improper help to players on term papers. It had zero to do with the fake class scandal. It's really laughable how UConn was handled for some BS "retro-active" APR ban and UNC is gliding along. Really pathetic and points out just how much certain media outlet drives the narrative/message.

 

[Cleanface]

Hate to see this, Terry.

Seriously.

Please disregard my post in the ((non)) key tweets thread.


Your e-friend,
CF

 

[ramses 2.0]

Sort of..., those self imposed sanctions/suspensions were for an assistant coach receiving personal loans from an NFL agent, players receiving jewelry, trips, and other gifts from people outside the program, and a tutor providing improper help to players on term papers. It had zero to do with the fake class scandal. It's really laughable how UConn was handled for some BS "retro-active" APR ban and UNC is gliding along. Really pathetic and points out just how much certain media outlet drives the narrative/message.

The vacated wins were for allowing academically ineligible players participate. Hakeem Nicks being the biggest name

 

[uconndogs]

Given where big-time college athletics is headed this stuff will be SOP - or academics will become expressly a sideline option. I don't see ND as any better or worse than most of college football. They are in it for the money, just like everyone else.

 

[Point6]

I assume their NBC contract has the equivalent of a "morals" clause, giving NBC the right to cancel if they are on probation, if there is a scandal, etc. If so, ND may be looking at the landscape and thinking they have too much at risk in keeping their eggs in that one NBC basket, that a few bad actors can derail at any time. ND may now think it would be safer to join a conference where they can ride out a future issue and not risk their future as a P5 school.

 

[TerryD]

I assume their NBC contract has the equivalent of a "morals" clause, giving NBC the right to cancel if they are on probation, if there is a scandal, etc. If so, ND may be looking at the landscape and thinking they have too much at risk in keeping their eggs in that one NBC basket, that a few bad actors can derail at any time. ND may now think it would be safer to join a conference where they can ride out a future issue and not risk their future as a P5 school.

No, this has nothing to do with NBC or ND joining a football conference.

 

[TerryD]

https://notredame.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1670630



NOTRE DAME, Ind. - University President Rev. John I. Jenkins and Vice President/Director of Athletics Jack Swarbrick served as the faces representing Notre Dame in the announcement of an administrative investigation into suspicions of academic dishonesty by four current Irish football players.

Until a full investigation is completed, KeiVarae Russell, DaVaris Daniels, Ishaq Williams and Kendall Moore will be held out of practice and game competition, a proclamation that came 15 days prior to the first game of the 2014 season.

"Integrity is at the heart of our mission as a university," said Jenkins in his introductory statement. "Academic dishonesty strikes at that heart. Academic misconduct has no place at a university."

Jenkins said there was evidence that the four football players submitted papers and homework that had been written for them by others, which was initially detected at the end of the summer session and referred to the compliance office in athletics on July 29, which then precipitated an immediate investigation by the Office of General Counsel.

Jenkins was quick to point out that the student-athletes have not been declared guilty of wrongdoing.

"Let me emphasize something: At this juncture, no one has been judged responsible for academic dishonesty," Jenkins said. "No one has been dismissed from the university and no sanctions have been imposed or no judgment has been made yet."

Asked if the players had been suspended, Swarbrick said, "No. They remain students at the university, they remain grant-in-aid students, and they continue to have the benefits of being a grant-in-aid student."

Jenkins and Swarbrick also defended Notre Dame head coach Brian Kelly, who was first informed of the situation on Thursday, Aug. 14.

"I want to say right now that I have great confidence in Brian and his staff, and they have been nothing but supportive and helpful in our investigation," Jenkins said.

"There is no evidence that Brian Kelly and his coaches knew about this. The same way with the academic staff. Once an academic staff member had suspicions, it was immediately brought to our attention."

Swarbrick described Kelly's reaction to the news.

"Like all of us, he was devastated," Swarbrick said. "But he was also quick to understand the process and how he and his staff could be of assistance in the process, so that was quickly the focus of the discussion."

Jenkins said there was no timetable for a resolution.

"We'll go as quickly as we can, but our emphasis will be on thoroughness," Jenkins said. "We'll take as long as it takes to have a thorough and fair investigation through our honor code process."

While the University is determined to get to the bottom of the situation and that academic dishonesty will not be tolerated, Swarbrick sees the purported improprieties by the student-athletes as the exception to the rule at Notre Dame.

"For every misstep, we have hundreds of stories of young people coming here and succeeding and taking full advantage of the (Notre Dame) opportunity," Swarbrick said. "So we know it works."

 

[Point6]

No, this has nothing to do with NBC or ND joining a football conference.

All i'm saying is that sometimes a close call will cause an entity to reassess its risk profile. I am not saying that NBC is going to take any action based on this specific event. If ND has a Penn State level problem in the future, would they be able to survive it as well as Penn State did on their own?

 

[Stinger92860]

All i'm saying is that sometimes a close call will cause an entity to reassess its risk profile. I am not saying that NBC is going to take any action based on this specific event. If ND has a Penn State level problem in the future, would they be able to survive it as well as Penn State did on their own?

I am not sure there is anything that could happen to keep the ND fan base away. ND could convert to another faith and they would still be the fighting Irish.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I am not sure there is anything that could happen to keep the ND fan base away. ND could convert to another faith and they would still be the fighting Irish.

There's already a well thought out contingency plan in place:

• An underling leaks a rumor that Kelly has interviewed for an NFL job due to the pressure of winning at ND while maintaining a 99.999% graduation rate.
• End of plan

 

[HoopsFan21]

ND should get the death penalty. NCAA should send a message like they did with Penn State which was a case that involved exactly zero student-athletes and zero cheating. UConn gets burned for self-reporting that they fell short of a retroactively applied APR standard, and schools like ND and UNC get off with no sanctions while their athletes commit ridiculous amounts of academic fraud? If that's not a WTF moment then I don't know what is. Never mind the fact that ND sacrificed a kid's life just to video tape some football practices a few years back, and a football player raped a girl that ended up killing herself. Clearly a loss of institutional control at ND, just like they said about Penn State and Miami.

 

[CL82]

https://notredame com/content.asp?CID=1670630



NOTRE DAME, Ind. - University President Rev. John I. Jenkins and Vice President/Director of Athletics Jack Swarbrick served as the faces representing Notre Dame in the announcement of an administrative investigation into suspicions of academic dishonesty by four current Irish football players.

Until a full investigation is completed, KeiVarae Russell, DaVaris Daniels, Ishaq Williams and Kendall Moore will be held out of practice and game competition, a proclamation that came 15 days prior to the first game of the 2014 season.

"Integrity is at the heart of our mission as a university," said Jenkins in his introductory statement. "Academic dishonesty strikes at that heart. Academic misconduct has no place at a university."

Jenkins said there was evidence that the four football players submitted papers and homework that had been written for them by others, which was initially detected at the end of the summer session and referred to the compliance office in athletics on July 29, which then precipitated an immediate investigation by the Office of General Counsel.

Jenkins was quick to point out that the student-athletes have not been declared guilty of wrongdoing.

"Let me emphasize something: At this juncture, no one has been judged responsible for academic dishonesty," Jenkins said. "No one has been dismissed from the university and no sanctions have been imposed or no judgment has been made yet."

Asked if the players had been suspended, Swarbrick said, "No. They remain students at the university, they remain grant-in-aid students, and they continue to have the benefits of being a grant-in-aid student."

Jenkins and Swarbrick also defended Notre Dame head coach Brian Kelly, who was first informed of the situation on Thursday, Aug. 14.

"I want to say right now that I have great confidence in Brian and his staff, and they have been nothing but supportive and helpful in our investigation," Jenkins said.

"There is no evidence that Brian Kelly and his coaches knew about this. The same way with the academic staff. Once an academic staff member had suspicions, it was immediately brought to our attention."

Swarbrick described Kelly's reaction to the news.

"Like all of us, he was devastated," Swarbrick said. "But he was also quick to understand the process and how he and his staff could be of assistance in the process, so that was quickly the focus of the discussion."

Jenkins said there was no timetable for a resolution.

"We'll go as quickly as we can, but our emphasis will be on thoroughness," Jenkins said. "We'll take as long as it takes to have a thorough and fair investigation through our honor code process."

While the University is determined to get to the bottom of the situation and that academic dishonesty will not be tolerated, Swarbrick sees the purported improprieties by the student-athletes as the exception to the rule at Notre Dame.

"For every misstep, we have hundreds of stories of young people coming here and succeeding and taking full advantage of the (Notre Dame) opportunity," Swarbrick said. "So we know it works."

Wow, thanks for posting this! I, for one, am glad to know that this scandal only involves four players and that Kelly only knew about it a few days ago. It is great to have all the details about a scandal as soon as it publically breaks. Now I feel confident that there is no link to this scandal and the recent departure of prominent ND coordinators to other programs.

There's nothing more to see here. I guess I'll just move along.

 

[Ldandy]

I'm unsure what will happen here, but I suspect the worst of it will be self inflicted by ND as opposed to actions stemming from an NCAA investigation. The NCAA is a toothless tiger that occasionally roars to prove it is still a threat. They'll let Auburn purchase Cam Newton for 200 k, allow Miami to run a booster riddled program for decades, and comically allow UNC to run a system of fake classes for years with zero penalty. All were handled with a nothing to see here attitude.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, they hammer PSU for the actions of a former employee that had ZERO to do with athletics or academics. Mind you this same program was held up by no less than dip schit Mark Emmert himself as a shining example for what was right with college athletics. Graduating 90 % of its players while never committing a major NCAA Penalty in any sport meant nothing when they decided to punish PSU.

The NCAA is a joke, and it is holding on by its fingernails. If what is alleged is true, kick the current players off the team, fire whomever can be proved to have had involvement, and forfeit wins obtained using those involved( as if that means anything). No sense in punishing a bunch of kids and current employees with no involvement beyond that.

 

[CL82]

No sense in punishing a bunch of kids and current employees with no involvement beyond that.

Unless, of course, you've already established a precedent for doing just that under much, much more benign circumstances.

Quick question, if UConn can established that non athletes transferred or left the school with less that 2.0 cum can we get our 2012 post season back?

 

[dayooper]

I'm unsure what will happen here, but I suspect the worst of it will be self inflicted by ND as opposed to actions stemming from an NCAA investigation. The NCAA is a toothless tiger that occasionally roars to prove it is still a threat. They'll let Auburn purchase Cam Newton for 200 k, allow Miami to run a booster riddled program for decades, and comically allow UNC to run a system of fake classes for years with zero penalty. All were handled with a nothing to see here attitude.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, they hammer PSU for the actions of a former employee that had ZERO to do with athletics or academics. Mind you this same program was held up by no less than dip schit Mark Emmert himself as a shining example for what was right with college athletics. Graduating 90 % of its players while never committing a major NCAA Penalty in any sport meant nothing when they decided to punish PSU.

The NCAA is a joke, and it is holding on by its fingernails. If what is alleged is true, kick the current players off the team, fire whomever can be proved to have had involvement, and forfeit wins obtained using those involved( as if that means anything). No sense in punishing a bunch of kids and current employees with no involvement beyond that.

Actually, to ND, it means a lot. They are tied with D2 power Grand Valley State in all time win percentage with .733. Michigan is right at their heels with .732. Take those wins away and they are neither the all time football nor D1 football win percentage. It was a very big deal when they overtook Michigan a couple of years ago.

That being said, most Irish fans would agree that the win percentage is much less important than what allegedly went on in this scandal.

 

[Ldandy]

Unless, of course, you've already established a precedent for doing just that under much, much more benign circumstances.

Quick question, if UConn can established that non athletes transferred or left the school with less that 2.0 cum can we get our 2012 post season back?

Preaching to the choir here, as I've watched highly deserving student athletes be punished for the the last 3 years for non football related events that occurred when they were in elementary school. UCONN's kids much like PSU's got a royal screw job, while a paid free agent like Cam Newton continues to be celebrated in college football lore. Pathetic.

 

[Ldandy]

Actually, to ND, it means a lot. They are tied with D2 power Grand Valley State in all time win percentage with .733. Michigan is right at their heels with .732. Take those wins away and they are neither the all time football nor D1 football win percentage. It was a very big deal when they overtook Michigan a couple of years ago.

That being said, most Irish fans would agree that the win percentage is much less important than what allegedly went on in this scandal.

I get what you're saying, but much like at PSU where deserving players were robbed of a portion of their history, they and we know they earned those victories on the field regardless of what the record book reflects. Loss of scholarships and bowl games punish current and future players far more harshly.

 

[dayooper]

I get what you're saying, but much like at PSU where deserving players were robbed of a portion of their history, they and we know they earned those victories on the field regardless of what the record book reflects. Loss of scholarships and bowl games punish current and future players far more harshly.

The record is very important to both schools. In a few years, no one will remember what happened to those years (except for diehard ND fans). That record will be all that matters.

If this was done because of the culture, what better way to take it down a few notches than to take away a symbol of the culture, the all time winning percentage record.

 

[Ldandy]

The record is very important to both schools. In a few years, no one will remember what happened to those years (except for diehard ND fans). That record will be all that matters.

If this was done because of the culture, what better way to take it down a few notches than to take away a symbol of the culture, the all time winning percentage record.

I'm not sure anyone not affiliated with ND cares what ND's all time winning percentage is. I know I sure as hell don't. The fans that actually care about ND will know that they won those games should they eventually be taken away.

 

[dayooper]

I'm not sure anyone not affiliated with ND cares what ND's all time winning percentage is. I know I sure as hell don't. The fans that actually care about ND will know that they won those games should they eventually be taken away.

No Person not affiliated with ND really doesn't care, but that's not the point. Each school takes pride in the traditions of their team. Both Michigan and ND have very long football traditions that go back very far (in Michigan's case, well over a century). Having been that good for that long is something that I know I, as a Michigan fan, take much pride in. I believe ND faithful are the same. How many schools can say that after more than 1200 games, they have won almost 3/4 of them. Not many. Two, in fact. To be the winningest program in the history of college football is a testament to how strong you tradition is.

 

[CL82]

Back in the day we had a good hate going for UMass and URI. The problem is that they couldn't keep up so they aren't relevant competition anymore.

 

[BoatShow]

Bob Disco lifetime ban.

 

[TerryD]

Phil Daniels (former NFL lineman and Davaris Daniels' dad) went on NBC to rip ND's reaction to this. He says ND jumped the gun.

He said that it was KeiVarae Russell's girlfriend who is in middle of it all. He said they asked for advice from her and really did nothing wrong.

He hints that they'll be back on field soon.

The rumors in South Bend are that the tutor is KeiVarae Russell's live in girlfriend and is a law student.

Ishaq Willams is Russell's roommate. That is supposedly how he is suspected. DaVaris Daniels sent his paper to this girl using school email asking her to edit it.

He opened her response email while in the presence of his academic counselor/adviser.

The academic adviser went nuts and reported it to his superiors and this is how this allegedly got started.

The rumors are that decisions on each should be made no later than this week and that Russell and Willams could be back soon but those are just rumors for now.

Phillip Daniels is kind of a loose cannon and has an obvious interest in his son's reputation and NFL aspirations, but that is the latest.

I can see ND jumping to a quick reaction to this. Recall how quickly George O'Leary was shown the door for an academic integrity type issue?
We shall see.

 

[Seaa Blue]

The academic adviser went nuts and reported it to his superiors and this is how this allegedly got started.
.

Obviously any Notre Dame or North Carolina academic type that reports a violation has to be "nuts". Their life will never be the same.

 

[TerryD]

I am not saying the newest rumors by Phil Daniels and others are true. I have no idea.

But (even though you guys have a Conspiracy Kitty) not everything, everywhere is a big conspiracy to cover things up.

Didn't the allegations against the Syracuse basketball assistant coach and the Duke lacrosse players end up being BS?

ND suspended its starting quarterback , leading receiver and best basketball player in the past 15 months, so ND is not shy about suspending athletes for academic reasons.

This thing happened very quickly (7/29-8/15) and it could be that ND, Pat Forde, ESPN, etc.. jumped the gun on this and blew it all out of proportion.

I have no idea, but those are the latest rumors on this.

 

[TerryD]

You have to admit that the media coverage was over the top then this came out of Friday.

" 4 ND players expelled", "ND may forfeit its 2012 season", "22 players may be involved."

In truth, nobody really knew very much then. Hell, Brian Kelly was not told until the day before.

Kyle Lamb even questioned some of the headlines on Friday on this board.

For what it is worth, Ivan Maisal of ESPN is backtracking a bit this morning on his original story:

"Some people, including me on ESPN Radio on Sunday afternoon, have been under the mistaken impression that the academic misconduct investigation of four Notre Dame football players involved work performed by academic advisors. In fact, the academic advisors uncovered the alleged misconduct. I trust Notre Dame will protect its academic reputation, no matter the consequences. With four important players in limbo, the consequences to the football team are going to be huge."

I tend to think that Phil Daniels is just pissed about his kid. I tend to think that some of these guys may have cheated academically. But, who knows when, how many and what the penalty for them may be.

As I said, ND has suspended its starting quarterback, its leading receiver and its best basketball player for academic reasons in the past 15 months, so it is not shy about booting players for that reason (instead of covering it up).

 

[FDNY99]

You have to admit that the media coverage was over the top then this came out of Friday.

" 4 ND players expelled", "ND may forfeit its 2012 season", "22 players may be involved."

In truth, nobody really knew very much then. Hell, Brian Kelly was not told until the day before.

Kyle Lamb even questioned some of the headlines on Friday on this board.

For what it is worth, Ivan Maisal of ESPN is backtracking a bit this morning on his original story:

"Some people, including me on ESPN Radio on Sunday afternoon, have been under the mistaken impression that the academic misconduct investigation of four Notre Dame football players involved work performed by academic advisors. In fact, the academic advisors uncovered the alleged misconduct. I trust Notre Dame will protect its academic reputation, no matter the consequences. With four important players in limbo, the consequences to the football team are going to be huge."

I tend to think that Phil Daniels is just pissed about his kid. I tend to think that some of these guys may have cheated academically. But, who knows when, how many and what the penalty for them may be.

As I said, ND has suspended its starting quarterback, its leading receiver and its best basketball player for academic reasons in the past 15 months, so it is not shy about booting players for that reason (instead of covering it up).

Terry I wouldn't be surprised if ND was the recipient of overzealous media coverage because of what happened at UNC. I am definitely not a ND fan...count me on the wagon of ND hater/fed up with their elitist entitled attitude but I have been pretty impressed with the stand they made with Golson, and what is happening now in terms of academic's. The typical company line from ND that "ND is truly interested in the academic portion of a student athlete's career first, and that athletics is secondary" is a line of . The NBC contract, the new UA contract, along with facilities that are there say otherwise...same with their move to the ACC.

 

[TerryD]

From Jack Swarbrick on Mike & Mike this morning:


* Athletics has nothing to do with the investigation. It's a university matter
* Nature of the investigation forced us to make a public statement - because of potential of eligibility issues, they needed to be held back from practice
* Not a matter of a second offense
* It's not like somebody detected an anomaly on a paper and got pushed aside. That's not how ND works. It started with compliance, got notified to athletic department and moved on to General Counsel
* Investigation went on for a while before Kelly was informed
* Nothing in this investigation pointing to a tutor, academic advisor. It's a student to student matter. No evidence of institutional involvement
* Nothing seen here so far has to do with Brian Kelly or the athletic department involvement
* Can't characterize the issue going beyond these 4 players. Very confident this is not a larger institutional issue
* Thousands of emails have been reviewed or read
* When players were interviewed Friday morning that was the first time they were interviewed (by the assistant provost, and not direct involvement of athletic department)
* No timetable. Investigation will be done regardless of any athletic concern. Hard to predict timetable
* Players will not be playing if season starts and investigation is still ongoing

 

[Husky25]

* Athletics has nothing to do with the investigation. It's a university matter
* Nature of the investigation forced us to make a public statement - because of potential of eligibility issues, they needed to be held back from practice
* Nothing in this investigation pointing to a tutor, academic advisor. It's a student to student matter. No evidence of institutional involvement
* Can't characterize the issue going beyond these 4 players. Very confident this is not a larger institutional issue .

What a Crock of !!! Swarbrick is trying to get out in front of the issue in hopes that the NCAA will characterize it akin to their definition for UNC (Which is quite likely, given ND is included with other 5CSMA schools). Also, no one will ever confuse Mike and Mike (who has a conflict of interest in the first place) with Woodward and Bernstein, but the above are very simply conflicting statements.

4 players were suspended. The issue may extend beyond the scope of athletics, but the issue includes athletics. Make no mistake about it. There is no question.

The issue takes into account eligibility of 4 athletes. They are being withheld from practices and games to prevent the forfeit of additional games (including all of 2012), i.e. NCAA punishment. If the issue did not include athletics, They would not be worried about an NCAA Investigation and the players would not be suspended.

If a tutor is another ND Student, that equates to institutional involvement. The institution "hired" the tutor, the institution accepted the student-tutor over otherwise willing and qualified applicants.

IF you can't characterize the issue as not going beyond these 4 players, how is it a university matter, but not an athletic matter. If it is a university matter? How is there no evidence of institutional involvement?