Giants

[superjohn]

http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2015/07/09/giants-the-nfls-most-successful-cursed-franchise/ Patriot fans please cut it out with the injury talk, this will be the Giants third straight year being the most injured team in the league and six straight years as one of the most injured, of course we find out today Victor Cruz is out for the year. Also please stop saying Dion Lewis is one of the most dynamic offensive players in the league and the most dynamic Patriot after Brady. Gronk is the most dynamic offensive guy is the whole league and impossible to cover.

 

[Dooley]

Without going down the slippery slope that this thread is heading down, my observations from last night:

1. The Giants are, without a doubt, the bugaboo team for the Patriots. Every team has a bugaboo team - UConn football is Cincinnati, UConn basketball seems to be Houston or SMU, the Yankees have the Angels, the Angels have the Red Sox, the Whalers had the Bruins, the Bruins have the Canadiens, and so on...

2. Losing Julian Edelman until the playoffs is going to be tough to replace. They might have been able to withstand it if Dion Lewis was still healthy, but now without the two, and Wes Walker inexplicably signing with the lowly Rams a week ago, the Pats are without a consistent slot receiver that can't be covered. Amendola is nice but he's nowhere near as dangerous as either Edelman or Lewis.

3. Patriots need some health to return back to the OL. Giants front dominated this unit, again. They dominate the Pats' OL in every meeting, it seems. It seemed as though JPP and Kuhn were in the backfield all night. Aside: is this Kuhn dude in relation to the famous Packers' Kuhn?

4. Malcolm Butler did an outstanding job on OBJ. Aside from the long TD that McCourty took him out on, Butler really took the Giants #1 target out of the game and forced Eli to look to Harris and Randle...who had their way with Ryan, Coleman or any other backup they threw out there.

5. I miss Shane Vereen. Got a little misty-eyed seeing him line-up against us, not gonna lie.

6. Tom Coughlin's clock management at the end of the game seemed to have followed Paul Pasqualoni's school of how to lose games you have no business losing. Three straight passing plays with the Pats desperately calling TOs to preserve clock for Brady. Unacceptable. If you're going to only get 3, you have to, at the very least, force the Pats into using all 3 TOs.

7. From a Patriots' fan perspective, it was nice to see the Giants drop a sure-thing INT that would have iced the game. Who could forget Asante Samuel and Brandon Merriweather having Super Bowl icing INTs slip off their fingertips? I sure haven't.

8. Both the Giants and Patriots have money kickers.

9. The Giants need a TE to open up their offense. The WRs seem solid but, with all due respect to David Tye, they don't have a threat in the middle of the field that can keep the defense thin. There are a couple of good TEs coming up in this year's draft - I think the Giants have to get one of them.

10. Every time I saw JPP on screen, it made me think of this scene in Happy Gilmore...

I have to be honest - if the Pats are going to get to another Super Bowl this year, I will be rooting against the Giants getting there too. I've had enough of these games and watching my Pats turn into the Jets for a game. I would rather play the NFC Pro Bowl roster than play the Giants in the Super Bowl.

P.S. - Shameless plug: buy some GD tickets to the Houston game on 11/21. $10 for students; $15 with promo codes 'FRONTIER' and 'THANKS'

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

As a Pats fan I was actually initially rooting for the Giants stripped/Touchdown call to stand so that Brady would then have enough time to come back and get a TD to presumably tie/win. Really didn't expect there to be anywhere near enough time left until Coughlin completely mismanages the clock. Only a regular season game but happy to see the pats get one back they didn't seemingly deserve for a change.

 

[Vuce]

As long as the Patriots get a few guys back before the end of the season that is all that matters. Look around the AFC- besides the Bengals who is any good? A lot of middling .500 teams. Is anyone afraid of the Broncos at this point? Spoiler alert - the Patriots will be in the AFC Championship game.

 

[mauconnfan]

Without going down the slippery slope that this thread is heading down, my observations from last night:

1. The Giants are, without a doubt, the bugaboo team for the Patriots. Every team has a bugaboo team - UConn football is Cincinnati, UConn basketball seems to be Houston or SMU, the Yankees have the Angels, the Angels have the Red Sox, the Whalers had the Bruins, the Bruins have the Canadiens, and so on...

2. Losing Julian Edelman until the playoffs is going to be tough to replace. They might have been able to withstand it if Dion Lewis was still healthy, but now without the two, and Wes Walker inexplicably signing with the lowly Rams a week ago, the Pats are without a consistent slot receiver that can't be covered. Amendola is nice but he's nowhere near as dangerous as either Edelman or Lewis.

3. Patriots need some health to return back to the OL. Giants front dominated this unit, again. They dominate the Pats' OL in every meeting, it seems. It seemed as though JPP and Kuhn were in the backfield all night. Aside: is this Kuhn dude in relation to the famous Packers' Kuhn?

4. Malcolm Butler did an outstanding job on OBJ. Aside from the long TD that McCourty took him out on, Butler really took the Giants #1 target out of the game and forced Eli to look to Harris and Randle...who had their way with Ryan, Coleman or any other backup they threw out there.

5. I miss Shane Vereen. Got a little misty-eyed seeing him line-up against us, not gonna lie.

6. Tom Coughlin's clock management at the end of the game seemed to have followed Paul Pasqualoni's school of how to lose games you have no business losing. Three straight passing plays with the Pats desperately calling TOs to preserve clock for Brady. Unacceptable. If you're going to only get 3, you have to, at the very least, force the Pats into using all 3 TOs.

7. From a Patriots' fan perspective, it was nice to see the Giants drop a sure-thing INT that would have iced the game. Who could forget Asante Samuel and Brandon Merriweather having Super Bowl icing INTs slip off their fingertips? I sure haven't.

8. Both the Giants and Patriots have money kickers.

9. The Giants need a TE to open up their offense. The WRs seem solid but, with all due respect to David Tye, they don't have a threat in the middle of the field that can keep the defense thin. There are a couple of good TEs coming up in this year's draft - I think the Giants have to get one of them.

10. Every time I saw JPP on screen, it made me think of this scene in Happy Gilmore...

I have to be honest - if the Pats are going to get to another Super Bowl this year, I will be rooting against the Giants getting there too. I've had enough of these games and watching my Pats turn into the Jets for a game. I would rather play the NFC Pro Bowl roster than play the Giants in the Super Bowl.

P.S. - Shameless plug: buy some GD tickets to the Houston game on 11/21. $10 for students; $15 with promo codes 'FRONTIER' and 'THANKS'

Let's be honest here, for #9 Donnell and Fells are 1 and 2 and were not playing. Tye and Cunningham were after thoughts and it's pretty hard to come up with a "Gronk" mid season after 2 starters have injuries. No fault of the Giants here other than injury but tough on Eli not to have the TE who he can throw it to with confidence.

Butler did a great job, seemed to get in his head early on. He gets away with a little but they all do. Would love to see OBJ get another shot at him though. No doubt the fact they left them with TO's killed them, on Tom C yet again. In the eyes of the Pats fans they would like to see the Tyree "catch" as a fluke, we prefer a great catch and that's the way I see it. If I were a Pats fan I would think less of the magician on that end but instead of how awful my tacklers were when Eli pulled his Houdini - there may have been the fluke.

 

[Dooley]

Let's be honest here, for #9 Donnell and Fells are 1 and 2 and were not playing. Tye and Cunningham were after thoughts and it's pretty hard to come up with a "Gronk" mid season after 2 starters have injuries. No fault of the Giants here other than injury but tough on Eli not to have the TE who he can throw it to with confidence.

Butler did a great job, seemed to get in his head early on. He gets away with a little but they all do. Would love to see OBJ get another shot at him though. No doubt the fact they left them with TO's killed them, on Tom C yet again. In the eyes of the Pats fans they would like to see the Tyree "catch" as a fluke, we prefer a great catch and that's the way I see it. If I were a Pats fan I would think less of the magician on that end but instead of how awful my tacklers were when Eli pulled his Houdini - there may have been the fluke.

No quibble there. That play was just a myriad of all sorts of craziness that went the Giants way, Eli's Houdini escape certainly being one of them. No doubt was a great grab by Tyree - the "fluke" aspect that I think I focus on (and maybe other Pats fans too) is the fact that Harrison's leg propped Tyree up enough so that the ball never quite hit the ground. I think if Harrison's leg wasn't underneath Tyree, that ball gets dislodged once he hits the ground (hard). But hey, that's all water under the bridge.

OBJ is definitely a talent. I admit to being wrong about him before the season - I thought he was just capitalizing on his one handed grab last year but wasn't really a star receiver. I was dead wrong about that. He's got terrific hands, runs perfect routes, has blazing speed and has the drive to be great. He's a Pro Bowler for years to come.

Butler flies under the radar a bit around the league, even despite the INT to beat Seattle. But he's a very heady DB with quick hips and good hands. I thought he did a great job last night - better than I had expected to be honest. I'm sure OBJ would love another chance at him every bit as much as Butler would. The two seemed to have been going at it all night away from the ball and the two sought out one another after the game to congratulate each other on a good hard fought game. Very classy by both and good to see from a fan's perspective. Nothing but respect.

 

[Dooley]

As long as the Patriots get a few guys back before the end of the season that is all that matters. Look around the AFC- besides the Bengals who is any good? A lot of middling .500 teams. Is anyone afraid of the Broncos at this point? Spoiler alert - the Patriots will be in the AFC Championship game.

The team that concerns me most is the Steelers. If Big Ben is healthy or healthier come playoff time, I think they give the Patriots a fight. Bryant is a tough matchup for Butler and if they have a running game, I'm worried. The Bengals are always good for a playoff choke job and I would have more confidence in Chandler Whitmer at QB against the Pats than I would Andy Dalton. The Ravens being out of it helps thin the AFC field too. The Broncos might not even get to the AFC Championship Game but if they do, they desperately need that game to be at Mile High. They aren't going on the road and beating anyone right now.

Let's be honest, the Pats have had the AFC East won after Week 2 ended. It's just a matter of maintaining the playoff bye week right now. They'll need more Gronk and LaFell to sustain the loss of Edelman and Lewis. Would love to see James White pick up his game - he was a good back in college and of the shifty variety that Lewis is/was. And it might be time for Dobson to prove whether or not he is going to make it in the NFL once and for all.

 

[mauconnfan]

No quibble there. That play was just a myriad of all sorts of craziness that went the Giants way, Eli's Houdini escape certainly being one of them. No doubt was a great grab by Tyree - the "fluke" aspect that I think I focus on (and maybe other Pats fans too) is the fact that Harrison's leg propped Tyree up enough so that the ball never quite hit the ground. I think if Harrison's leg wasn't underneath Tyree, that ball gets dislodged once he hits the ground (hard). But hey, that's all water under the bridge.

OBJ is definitely a talent. I admit to being wrong about him before the season - I thought he was just capitalizing on his one handed grab last year but wasn't really a star receiver. I was dead wrong about that. He's got terrific hands, runs perfect routes, has blazing speed and has the drive to be great. He's a Pro Bowler for years to come.

Butler flies under the radar a bit around the league, even despite the INT to beat Seattle. But he's a very heady DB with quick hips and good hands. I thought he did a great job last night - better than I had expected to be honest. I'm sure OBJ would love another chance at him every bit as much as Butler would. The two seemed to have been going at it all night away from the ball and the two sought out one another after the game to congratulate each other on a good hard fought game. Very classy by both and good to see from a fan's perspective. Nothing but respect.

He got in OBJ's head and that's a good thing from a young DB, smart and tough. They were seen hugging and talking after the game and more than likely now have the utmost respect for each other.

 

[joober jones]

I'm not a Giants fan (but I despise the Patriots) and was astounded by that terrible reversal on the TD call.

 

[4in16]

I'm not a Giants fan (but I despise the Patriots) and was astounded by that terrible reversal on the TD call.

How about the terrible PI against Butler early third when OBJ fell down?

 

[joober jones]

How about the terrible PI against Butler early third when OBJ fell down?

That one was bad, but nowhere near as egregiously so. I'm a bitter Jets fan and doubting any call that goes against New England is an unlikely thing to do, no matter how illogical. When you root for the Jets, rooting against New England is pretty much all you've got most years.

 

[UConn990411]

If you think that TD reversal was a bad call, you probably haven't been watching for years.

This one isn't even a debate.

 

[superjohn]

If you think that TD reversal was a bad call, you probably haven't been watching for years.

This one isn't even a debate.

Worst rule in sports but it is the right call based on the horrible rule. Malcolm Butler is really good.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I'm not a Giants fan (but I despise the Patriots) and was astounded by that terrible reversal on the TD call.

What were you astounded by? There was zero doubt that it was going to be reversed - Mike Carey called it incomplete without even watching the replay.

The NFL is a keystone kops type organization but it's mystifying that they can't come up with some rules around catches that make intuitive sense.

 

[intlzncster]

While he has been a dynamic player this year, and there's no doubting that, let's not be so sure he would have been "tearing it up" anywhere else. He found a great fit for him, as have many others who thrived suddenly I'm the Pats system.

Both teams were at a loss but one can mask and the other not so much. Hey the Giants O line were great despite their injuries so that didn't make the difference. It's a no excuse league anyway play with what you have and get wins, nothing else. Just get a kick out of those who think they're injuries were the only reason the GMen were close to sneaking one out. Oh and I forgot, luck had a part too.

Rarely do I agree w you in Boston/NY sports threads, but I'm on board w most of that. The Patriots do get a lot out of those small shifty skill players, and there's a light year of difference between a Brady offense and a say manziel/Mcnown offense. So Lewis might not have shown in that spot.

Were all personnel available both teams, I do think that would have been advantage Patriots. You can't overstate the fact that they didn't dress a single OT. I wasn't surprised to see Brady struggle as a result; zero pass rush protection from the outside But that doesn't mean it's the sole reason for a the close game. Certainly not.

And luck is definitely a factor as well. It usually is in close games. Especially superbowls. The Patriots have been on both sides of lady luck in multiple superbowls. So it goes. Need Good fortune to win it all.

 

[UConn990411]

Worst rule in sports but it is the right call based on the horrible rule. Malcolm Butler is really good.

Agreed. The catch rules are yet another thing the NFL has butchered under Goodell's "leadership."

 

[Huskybass]

If the Giants did any one of the following things right, they would have won yesterday:
1. Not get stripped on the TD catch;
2. Not mismanage the clock and leave Brady nearly 2 minutes to set up a field goal;
3. Not drop an interception.

As a Patriots fan, I am ecstatic that they effed up on all three.

 

[intlzncster]

http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2015/07/09/giants-the-nfls-most-successful-cursed-franchise/ Patriot fans please cut it out with the injury talk, this will be the Giants third straight year being the most injured team in the league and six straight years as one of the most injured, of course we find out today Victor Cruz is out for the year. Also please stop saying Dion Lewis is one of the most dynamic offensive players in the league and the most dynamic Patriot after Brady. Gronk is the most dynamic offensive guy is the whole league and impossible to cover.

Yeah but none of those other years matter for this year. Who cares if someone was injured 3 years ago? Bottom line is that both teams have a lot of injuries (both top 3 est).

 

[mauconnfan]

What were you astounded by? There was zero doubt that it was going to be reversed - Mike Carey called it incomplete without even watching the replay.

The NFL is a keystone kops type organization but it's mystifying that they can't come up with some rules around catches that make intuitive sense.

Agree based on the rule it was the right call I am not whining about that. But Mike Carey had it wrong as he called it so based on the way he described it was a touchdown. he embarrassed himself. He said and I quote "He needs to have both feet down with possession and clearly the other foot wasn't down..." as they proceeded to show the replay with both feet down and the ball firmly in his grip.

Did I mention they should have been running the ball anyway?

 

[mauconnfan]

How about the terrible PI against Butler early third when OBJ fell down?

That one was awful but I thought he had his arm on another one and OBJ only had one to grab with. I think many of the PI calls even out but that one on Butler was ridiculous, almost like the foul on Purvis the other night. Phantom stuff.

 

[4in16]

That one was awful but I thought he had his arm on another one and OBJ only had one to grab with. I think many of the PI calls even out but that one on Butler was ridiculous, almost like the foul on Purvis the other night. Phantom stuff.

Not disagreeing about the others, but that was a phantom call on a third down play that resulted in 3 points for the Giants. No call there and it's a punt.

 

[mauconnfan]

Not disagreeing about the others, but that was a phantom call on a third down play that resulted in 3 points for the Giants. No call there and it's a punt.

A lot of "ifs" though and a lot of bad calls in every game. I don't think we need to start that train but the Eli sack to eliminate a FG, the missed INT, the clock management issues. Promise that call didn't drive you as crazy as what I saw down the stretch from my whacky team.

You guys have the first play 2 guys running into each other trying to make a play we have 2 guys running into each other trying to get Gronk. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle right? All good the game was fun the Giants need to beat Washington and Philly along with another couple wins and they may get another shot. I'd be good with that.

 

[StoweD210]

What were you astounded by? There was zero doubt that it was going to be reversed - Mike Carey called it incomplete without even watching the replay.

The NFL is a keystone kops type organization but it's mystifying that they can't come up with some rules around catches that make intuitive sense.

That actually caused me to believe the TD would stand.

Carey's percentage of being right when a play is being reviewed is pretty poor.

 

[David 76]

That is no longer clear.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Giants gift-wrapped that one.

Such a weird team.

Not weird, just no D. Adding three fingered JPP made them 100% better. Unfotunately 100% of 0 is still 0. Ugh. I thought Spags was a good D coach but maybe not?