Geno's players Rotation

[Conndog]

The weakest quarter for us is the 4th, pretty obvious with limited roster we need to insert some rest wherever we can for the starters

 

[Javafan]

I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. Not a criticism of Geno and I know right now UConn does not have a normal bench, but hopefully that will begin to get fixed in the near future. When that happens I'm of the opinion that at least a few bench players should get ~10 mpg not necessarily because they earned those minutes in practice, but to keep the players who did earn minutes in top form. Obviously there's a balancing problem here. You can't dig a deep hole for yourself playing too many bench minutes, but you can't have your best players gassed in 4Q because they played 38 to 40 minutes. This balancing act is coaching.

UConn has a 4Q problem, probably for combination of several reasons. One of those reasons is exhaustion. That can be fixed with careful management of bench minutes in the first 3 quarters.

GREAT 2 paragraphs ! !

 

[Javafan]

Hard to change when the results of the present are positive. I think Geno has deliberately tried to establish a hard core game players group. He apparently wants that group to become so familiar with each other playing as a unit becomes automatic. That coaching style has been successful. However, in physical games where the opposing team is also very good and also has relief players with game playing experience the small unit philosophy has weaknesses mainly fatigue late in the game. The unit coaching style worked better before the WBB players market grew to todays level. There are more really good women basketball recruits available and more WBB teams with elite potential. Depth has become a real factor in the performance of todays WBB teams. Depth is more than recruiting, those highly rated players the team recruited MUS BE DEVELOPED VIA ACTUAL GAME TIME.

...." .... the small unit philosophy has weaknesses mainly fatigue late in the game. .." - - GREAT POINT !

" ... those highly rated players the team recruited MUST BE DEVELOPED VIA ACTUAL GAME TIME " -- Well put !

Fatigue late in the game has become the factor for winning or losing in today's WBB game.

 

[Cuango]

I put forth a similar preposition, offering that I’d prefer, something like a 28-7 Record and winning the last game as opposed to 33-2 and maybe (probably) not in the name of down roster player development.
BY’ers would have none of it.
Be prepared for “incoming”:

I’d be interested in the odds to win difference between 28-7 teams vs 33-2 teams. I’m not an oddsmaker but my guess is the difference would be quite substantial! As in, 27-8 teams are a lot less likely to win than 33-2 teams! After all, there is a reason one team lost six more games!

 

[Stinger92860]

Geno is very explicit about Category 3. He has said he never had a great player that does not practice great. I suppose you can have a poor practice player that plays better in the game but Geno would view that as the player not reaching their potential to go from good to great.

Was Svetlana close to category 3 as a freshman?

 

[CocoHusky]

Fatigue late in the game has become the factor for winning or losing in today's WBB game.

Fatigue late in games has been the major factor in winning and losing games since Dr. Naismith hung that first peach basket.

 

[MD#12Fan]

I’d be interested in the odds to win difference between 28-7 teams vs 33-2 teams. I’m not an oddsmaker but my guess is the difference would be quite substantial! As in, 27-8 teams are a lot less likely to win than 33-2 teams! After all, there is a reason one team lost six more games!

That's brilliant. Even more brilliant might be the thought that the team that is playing the best at the end of the season prevails. Momentum, injuries to "better" team, players returning to "lesser team". Many factors. Best team season long doesn't always win. TB Bucs last year? Eli's Giants over NE? Huskies 2021-22 when cavalry arrives.................

 

[Javafan]

I'm with you and @Javafan and @donalddoowop. I too want fresh players in the 4 quarters of games and rested players come tournament time. What coach doesn't? What I strongly disagree with is your proposed method of achieving this. If a UCONN player is good enough to positively impact the game they will find their way onto the floor. @Javafan the answer to your question as to why recruit these players to have them sit is: not all recruits pan out as expected & it is damn hard to make the rotation at UCONN. First three games of the season Geno played 8, 9, 9 players and still there were at least 3 different threads stating that Geno is struggling with substitutions. Geno is not struggling with substitutions, the bench players are struggling trying to positively impact the game.

Again, the question is not "Geno is struggling with substitutions", the question is Geno is STINGY with substitution. When he doesn't have confidence with the sub he just sub in, he doesn't have the patience to cultivate that sub, and furthermore he doesn't have the faith in the key players that he sub out to surge back in case of falling behind with the energy she regain after the well rest. ? ! As to at what point he should sub back in the key player(s), its the job of the coach.

 

[Stymie]

I’d be interested in the odds to win difference between 28-7 teams vs 33-2 teams. I’m not an oddsmaker but my guess is the difference would be quite substantial! As in, 27-8 teams are a lot less likely to win than 33-2 teams! After all, there is a reason one team lost six more games!

Ah....maybe a team in the situation UCONN finds itself in now?
A team with no margin for error.
A team that can’t afford to foul?
A team with a 3 player bench ( 2 no goes due to coaches philosophy).
Outside shooters injured- tough non conference schedule.
A team playing for time until healthy and can play offense roster designed for.
A team that begins to peak when when close to healthy.maybe a team like that??

 

[Cuango]

...." .... the small unit philosophy has weaknesses mainly fatigue late in the game. .." - - GREAT POINT !

" ... those highly rated players the team recruited MUST BE DEVELOPED VIA ACTUAL GAME TIME " -- Well put !

Fatigue late in the game has become the factor for winning or losing in today's WBB game.

The main weakness is when two or three fifths of your highly ranked starters turn out to be non alphas and/or you don’t have that super dominant super alpha either! The truth is, virtually all of our NC teams had a super alpha ( Dee, Maya, Stewie) and other alpha players as well who, in the immortal words of Josie Wales, got “plumb nasty” when things weren’t going well.

Everyone can speculate and argue and point fingers as much as they want, imo the reason we haven’t won a chip in five years is not because of no bench, playing time issues etc but rather because we haven’t had one of the above mentioned types of players and we have not been lucky. When you have a talented but alphaless team you need a little luck to go your way. You need a last second shot to not fall or at least one of your seniors to step up or not foul out or your back up point guard to not be injured.

Every one of those teams made it to the FF! They were capable of winning all of those games and the next one! However, unlike our (most of them, anyway) NC teams, they needed a little help. I truly believe we are going to start winning those games (hopefully) this year but certainly starting in 22 because I think we are about to see a lot more alphas on our roster!

 

[Cuango]

Ah....maybe a team in the situation UCONN finds itself in now?
A team with no margin for error.
A team that can’t afford to foul?
A team with a 3 player bench ( 2 no goes due to coaches philosophy).
Outside shooters injured- tough non conference schedule.
A team playing for time until healthy and can play offense roster designed for.
A team that begins to peak when when close to healthy.maybe a team like that??

11

 

[Cuango]

Please stop saying he has won 11 titles. We know he is that great. But, look at the last 4-5 years, don't you see a danger sign he was losing that magnificent power? In those recent losing years' FF, don't you think we should at least won 1 title or at least get a couple of Final appearance ? My humble reason to that always point to one thing ; FATIQUE FACTOR ! We were rely on 6-7 players against 10 or more players. We didn't have Paige at those years. Even if Paige was there, is that the way that we want to win a championship ?

It’s never enough! If we had lost in the elite eight people would be saying we should have at least gotten to one or two ! I guess if we had lost in the finals they would say at least one or two chips, and we had won the chip it would be we should have won at least one or two of those by a wider margin! It’s unbelievable to me how many people don’t appreciate the truly incredible level of basketball we have been privy to for the past 37 years! Oh well. Merry Christmas to you all! Wishing you all the very best as we finish 21 and greet 22!

 

[TeamFirst!]

I think Paige is an Alpha. Just saying. She was only a Freshman last year and we came close. If we can knock down 3 point shots in March I like our chances still. Stanford almost beat SC recently just from drawing out SC from the paint with Prechtel knocking down one 3 pointer in the beginning of the game. Instead of making her keep making them they came out to guard her. Our best opportunity in this regard is Dorka. If we can knock down some 3 pointers against SC the lane will open up a lot and our ability to get rebounds will improve. if not we will be standing around the perimeter watching SC rebound our misses.

 

[Cuango]

I think Paige is an Alpha. Just saying. She was only a Freshman last year and we came close. If we can knock down 3 point shots in March I like our chances still. Stanford almost beat SC recently just from drawing out SC from the paint with Prechtel knocking down one 3 pointer in the beginning of the game. Instead of making her keep making them they came out to guard her. Our best opportunity in this regard is Dorka. If we can knock down some 3 pointers against SC the lane will open up a lot and our ability to get rebounds will improve. if not we will be standing around the perimeter watching SC rebound our misses.

Of course Paige is an alpha! She is a super alpha! Once we get a few more around her (hopefully some of Azzi, Caroline, AE, Brady, Ayanna, Amari, Dorka) we will be able to shove through the gate and get back to where we belong!

 

[eebmg]

Of course Paige is an alpha! She is a super alpha! Once we get a few more around her (hopefully some of Azzi, Caroline, AE, Brady, Ayanna, Amari, Dorka) we will be able to shove through the gate and get back to where we belong!

Not ready to give up on this season. If Paige is back and looks like Paige (I know a big if) and we enter the Tournament with our other best players healthy so that our Seniors are not pressured to carry the team, I like our shot in MN. A storybook ending suited for UConn.

 

[hoophuskee]

It’s never enough!

I'm with you 100%!!! It's never enough to remind people getting to Final Fours is great. The general objective is to win as much as you can. I've never played a sport where my coach said it's okay to lose when we were the superior team. To deliberately lose to an inferior team because you took away minutes from a healthy “Paige Buckers” to give to another much lesser player is a move destined for disastrous results. The superstars will never come once you have a couple years that you don’t win it all because they see that you aren't giving the previous superstars the minutes. They'll see you won't give it to them either.

The NCAA Tourney is a crapshoot. Nothing is guaranteed. And to lose regular season games because some fans think it's okay is not only a blight on the coach, but to the fans that go to the games (imagine going to many games knowing that you’re coach might not care much if he wins as long as he gives his bench enough minutes with the prayer that he won’t get upset in the NCAA’s.), to the players you've recruited in telling them you want to win when actually you are okay with a shrug-of-shoulders losing games, the networks that paid to show the game (to show-off Bueckers etc), to any new fans that might be interested in UCONN (watching a team or coach indifferent to winning a game that given day- how well do you think that will go over to a superstar recruit used to winning a ton all their life?), or to women's college basketball in general by deliberately holding back your best-- is all pretty unspeakable.

And for anyone suggesting or implying CDucharme wouldn't have gotten minutes, they are wrong. Either UCONN would have been a super force blowing out teams at will (which they weren't this year), or if they struggled (which they did early), eventually Geno would have gone to a 4 guard lineup (just like he has done the past few) to get more firepower even though CDucharme wouldn't start.

Anyhow, let's keep reminding everyone UCONN's success of the past 13 years - 13 straight final fours -instead of wishing and offering prayers for a major change in philosophy that it might work. - It won't long-term anyway.

 

[Skeets]

The main weakness is when two or three fifths of your highly ranked starters turn out to be non alphas and/or you don’t have that super dominant super alpha either! The truth is, virtually all of our NC teams had a super alpha ( Dee, Maya, Stewie) and other alpha players as well who, in the immortal words of Josie Wales, got “plumb nasty” when things weren’t going well.

Everyone can speculate and argue and point fingers as much as they want, imo the reason we haven’t won a chip in five years is not because of no bench, playing time issues etc but rather because we haven’t had one of the above mentioned types of players and we have not been lucky. When you have a talented but alphaless team you need a little luck to go your way. You need a last second shot to not fall or at least one of your seniors to step up or not foul out or your back up point guard to not be injured.

Every one of those teams made it to the FF! They were capable of winning all of those games and the next one! However, unlike our (most of them, anyway) NC teams, they needed a little help. I truly believe we are going to start winning those games (hopefully) this year but certainly starting in 22 because I think we are about to see a lot more alphas on our roster!

Good point. Those super alphas refused to lose. They had the attitude "over my dead body". Is Paige a super alpha? I think yes, but she could use a little more of DT "nastiness". She needs to "punch orange" and really mean it.

 

[eebmg]

Good point. Those super alphas refused to lose. They had the attitude "over my dead body". Is Paige a super alpha? I think yes, but she could use a little more of DT "nastiness". She needs to "punch orange" and really mean it.

Please. Paige is all world nasty on the court and does not take a back seat to anyone. Every time she throws herself with reckless abandon on the court on defense should be more than enough evidence. Flash a few ND or SH defensive highlights.

And she better not be punching anything. Those wrists and fingers have to be protected at all costs.

 

[Husky pride]

I admire and respect Geno's Philosophy and Discipline toward handling UCONN players practice and game time off and on the field. I understand his emphasis on practice as a guide post for the player in order to gain each and every player's playing time. Enough on this basic. I want to throw some other aspect as to how under that guideline we could achieve our OBJECTIVE when occasion warrants you to do otherwise. Let's talk about the OBJECTIVE.
A) to win NC
B) to win every game along the line on winning the A), as though it's icing on the cake.
I don't know about everyone on BY, and Geno for that matter, if we all agree A) is more important than B) then, sometime we have to sacrifice B) to get the A).
I urge to give the bench more playing time. If player X didn't have a decent practice or practices OR she is not capability-ready to sub in, yet for her playing position does present a good fit position wise, then, sub her in. The rational is to give your key(yet exhausted) player some breather, not only for that particular game but for the next game and beyond ! Otherwise, you are punishing those key players instead ! You want to save energy and full physical readiness for those key players. Remember , A) is more important than B).
I love UCONN for over 30 years in big part because of Geno. He is no doubt the greatest WBB head around. If he can be just flexible a little bit !

 

[Husky pride]

I couldn’t agree with you any more.

 

[Jim]

So if Geno’s substitution patterns are so bad, why aren’t CD, Jamelle, and Morgan making suggestions to put players X, Y, and Z in the game? They see the same things we do in the game, and they see things we don’t at practice. I know Geno is the head coach and has the final say, but surely the assistants are tracking fouls, minutes, etc. and ought to be giving the head coach info to make good decisions. Is it possible that the whole coaching staff knows more about the team than the folks on the BoneYard? Nah, let the argument continue…

 

[Papa33]

Many of your points I agree with. As for why other teams play the end of the bench way way earlier than Geno in blowouts, I think the most logical conclusion is he likes to run up the score. He doesn't want to win by 25 instead of 30, or 35 instead of 40, and the development of players outside his main rotation is not that important to him.

I believe he indicated one time that playing a shorter list of players develops better chemistry between them. I can see that to a certain degree, but think it comes with the downside of when you have to use players outside the normal rotation because of injury, illness, or foul trouble, they may not be ready. In addition of course truly talented players just outside the rotation may well leave.

I was surprised by your assertion that "the most logical conclusion is he likes to run up the score." Surprised in that you usually support such conclusions as "logical" because of some sort of evidence, and because it ascribes to Geno a very unsportsmanlike motivation, also not typical of your posts.

 

[CocoHusky]

Almost!!! Number of UCONN players by game: 9, 10, 9, 9, 8. Game 5 was ND where Paige got her and everyone started to lose their minds. Keep in mind that both Aubrey and Saylor were dealing with injuries prior to the ND game.
Then are the facts, Geno was playing 9 and 10 players prior to Paige's injury with Aubrey out-go figure.

 

[Stymie]

Howling at the moon Coco.
Pulling the minutes will show your “figures” as a feeble attempt to justify.
Limping Paige getting carried of the floor in the final minute of a game where UCONN is up by 20?
Where she was physically hammered over and over?
Voids any figures you may cherry-pick.
Smell the coffee much?