Geno's players Rotation | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Geno's players Rotation

You can't have it both ways AKA You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to leave players on the floor as an experiment to "work through their mistakes" then you can't then hold Geno accountable for winning the game.
Gabby Williams was yanked from a championship game against ND because she missed an assignment and was clearly too jacked up. Caroline was yanked form a game because she was turning over the ball and helping to dig a hole for UCONN.

I don't know what you guys want from Geno! Ya'll need to stop going off half cocked the half ( if that) part being limited to what you see on TV. It was @HuskyNan who first correctly pointed out that Amari missed assignments. Here something to consider- I would bet you a cold beer Amari missed that same assignment in practice or shoot around or in the scout for this game. Working through mistakes is why you practice. Playing games is where you get an opportunity to prove that you have worked through mistakes. There shouldn't be anything experimental once the clock is running otherwise you wouldn't need someone to keep score.
I know who pointed out DeBerry's missed assignments. It was not necessary to say who it was. About this other stuff you mentioned, it does not seem to hurt other teams. Can't have it both ways? Then don't talk about players being tired in the fourth quarter and playing poorly.
 
You know what else you dont know -- someone who has won 11 titles.

I'm not saying that there couldn't be a change in the game. Or that other things that explain his track record.

BUT,
everyone seems very quick to dump an aspect that is pretty core to his belief system.
Is it not possible that these core beliefs are the secret sauce to his tremendous success?

I mean doesn't the fact that he does something that others don't give anyone pause?
This is year 5 of the pause. What is the point of great depth if you don't use it? All I'm saying is that if Azzi, Nika and Aubrey become healthy and we stick to a tight 7 man rotation we ain't winning. The game is too fast, too physical, too all year round, and whoever is rested for the 4th quarter, with all other things being equal, is going to win.

I also don't subscribe to the theory that past performance guarantees future results in a game that constantly evolves. He will figure out something. I just don't think that more of the same is that something.
 
Precisely! And since we don't we assume every player that transferred out or is currently sitting on the the bench was good enough to crack the rotation. Well if they were good enough to crack the rotation at UCONN they were probably monsters at their next stop right? Well... not exactly. Besides Michala Johnson and Natalie Butler did any other UCONN WCBB transfer out make an impact at the new school?
Good point but playing the bench more often could have had a positive impact on the starters who logged more minutes than necessary during a very long season culminating with the big tournament which is really taxing..........
 
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This is year 5 of the pause. What is the point of great depth if you don't use it? All I'm saying is that if Azzi, Nika and Aubrey become healthy and we stick to a tight 7 man rotation we ain't winning. The game is too fast, too physical, too all year round, and whoever is rested for the 4th quarter, with all other things being equal, is going to win.

I also don't subscribe to the theory that past performance guarantees future results in a game that constantly evolves. He will figure out something. I just don't think that more of the same is that something.
Bravo, Bravo!!
 
You know what else you dont know -- someone who has won 11 titles.

I'm not saying that there couldn't be a change in the game. Or that other things that explain his track record.

BUT,
everyone seems very quick to dump an aspect that is pretty core to his belief system.
Is it not possible that these core beliefs are the secret sauce to his tremendous success?

I mean doesn't the fact that he does something that others don't give anyone pause?
Please stop saying he has won 11 titles. We know he is that great. But, look at the last 4-5 years, don't you see a danger sign he was losing that magnificent power? In those recent losing years' FF, don't you think we should at least won 1 title or at least get a couple of Final appearance ? My humble reason to that always point to one thing ; FATIQUE FACTOR ! We were rely on 6-7 players against 10 or more players. We didn't have Paige at those years. Even if Paige was there, is that the way that we want to win a championship ?
 
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It has been repeated many times now that Geno likes to or sticks with 7 or 8 person rotation.
So here is my slightly rhetorical question: Name the UCONN bench players throughout the years that were good enough in you collective estimation to expand that rotation and were prevented from doing so by Geno?
We are not talking about who is qualified(your word good enough) besides those 7 or 8 rotation, we are talking about how to limit player or players having to play 40 minutes. I don't care if she is Paige. If they are not good enough, why did you recruit?
 
I agree. Of course, there is no issue at the moment due to the injuries but I was at the Seton Hall game and I could not understand why the "subs" were not in longer and why the rotation was not larger. The limited playing pool approach has proven to be ineffective recently at the end of the season and it does not rest players who are now playing all year round. I'm not going to adopt the theory of some that it has led to injuries but I would note that Mr. Jordan came out of the games at the exact same times and rested the same minutes. Why? To be fresh, have legs and because your body gets used to it. Evina and CW are clearly worn down and were a while ago. He has 7 players now, probably not of his choosing if he could choose, but I am sure he saw what tired legs looked like against Louisville in giving up 29 points in a 4th quarter.
I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. Not a criticism of Geno and I know right now UConn does not have a normal bench, but hopefully that will begin to get fixed in the near future. When that happens I'm of the opinion that at least a few bench players should get ~10 mpg not necessarily because they earned those minutes in practice, but to keep the players who did earn minutes in top form. Obviously there's a balancing problem here. You can't dig a deep hole for yourself playing too many bench minutes, but you can't have your best players gassed in 4Q because they played 38 to 40 minutes. This balancing act is coaching.

UConn has a 4Q problem, probably for combination of several reasons. One of those reasons is exhaustion. That can be fixed with careful management of bench minutes in the first 3 quarters.
 
I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. Not a criticism of Geno and I know right now UConn does not have a normal bench, but hopefully that will begin to get fixed in the near future. When that happens I'm of the opinion that at least a few bench players should get ~10 mpg not necessarily because they earned those minutes in practice, but to keep the players who did earn minutes in top form. Obviously there's a balancing problem here. You can't dig a deep hole for yourself playing too many bench minutes, but you can't have your best players gassed in 4Q because they played 38 to 40 minutes. This balancing act is coaching.

UConn has a 4Q problem, probably for combination of several reasons. One of those reasons is exhaustion. That can be fixed with careful management of bench minutes in the first 3 quarters.
Spot on.
 
I admire and respect Geno's Philosophy and Discipline toward handling UCONN players practice and game time off and on the field. I understand his emphasis on practice as a guide post for the player in order to gain each and every player's playing time. Enough on this basic. I want to throw some other aspect as to how under that guideline we could achieve our OBJECTIVE when occasion warrants you to do otherwise. Let's talk about the OBJECTIVE.
A) to win NC
B) to win every game along the line on winning the A), as though it's icing on the cake.
I don't know about everyone on BY, and Geno for that matter, if we all agree A) is more important than B) then, sometime we have to sacrifice B) to get the A).
I urge to give the bench more playing time. If player X didn't have a decent practice or practices OR she is not capability-ready to sub in, yet for her playing position does present a good fit position wise, then, sub her in. The rational is to give your key(yet exhausted) player some breather, not only for that particular game but for the next game and beyond ! Otherwise, you are punishing those key players instead ! You want to save energy and full physical readiness for those key players. Remember , A) is more important than B).
I love UCONN for over 30 years in big part because of Geno. He is no doubt the greatest WBB head around. If he can be just flexible a little bit !
Hard to change when the results of the present are positive. I think Geno has deliberately tried to establish a hard core game players group. He apparently wants that group to become so familiar with each other playing as a unit becomes automatic. That coaching style has been successful. However, in physical games where the opposing team is also very good and also has relief players with game playing experience the small unit philosophy has weaknesses mainly fatigue late in the game. The unit coaching style worked better before the WBB players market grew to todays level. There are more really good women basketball recruits available and more WBB teams with elite potential. Depth has become a real factor in the performance of todays WBB teams. Depth is more than recruiting, those highly rated players the team recruited MUS BE DEVELOPED VIA ACTUAL GAME TIME.
 
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I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. Not a criticism of Geno and I know right now UConn does not have a normal bench, but hopefully that will begin to get fixed in the near future. When that happens I'm of the opinion that at least a few bench players should get ~10 mpg not necessarily because they earned those minutes in practice, but to keep the players who did earn minutes in top form. Obviously there's a balancing problem here. You can't dig a deep hole for yourself playing too many bench minutes, but you can't have your best players gassed in 4Q because they played 38 to 40 minutes. This balancing act is coaching.

UConn has a 4Q problem, probably for combination of several reasons. One of those reasons is exhaustion. That can be fixed with careful management of bench minutes in the first 3 quarters.
Agreed. Geno acts like there is nothing he can do about it because he doesn't have any backup guards. The options aren't very good but there are options. Aaliyah could be playing 25-30 minutes exclusively at SF, in essence being the backup for Evina, Christyn and Caroline with Geno having to carefully time his substitutions.

Because Aaliyah is needed to provide guard relief, you could then insert Amari into a new three big rotation with Liv and Dorka, with Amari used the least of the three but still allowing the two starters to get as much rest as needed.

Amari is unproven but talented, Aaliyah is out of position and wouldn't be as good at the 3 than the 4, but still brings some talent to the position, and for a few minutes each game Christyn would need to be the point when Evina was out. All of those are negatives, but would I rather go with that than have gassed starters down the stretch? Yes!
 
What is the pattern of our losses. The 4th quarter. Why we are out of gas. Why when we played Minnesota and were up big and we had to play 3 GAMES in three days were our starters in the 4th quaters. SC in their games their starters played significantly less than UConn's. I know GT and Louisville we had no bench but it is death to us to play our starters 40 minutes. I still think we will win the National Championship if we can get everybody healthy. Azzi and Caroline will take minutes from the seniors. When you have guards that can hit three's it opens the middle for backdoors, drives to the hoop and then kick for three's. We have the talent and finally enough big's to compete which had been missing for years.
 
This may not be the year to have this discussion. While I have always been a fan of resting starters to help offset the results of the difficult practices, before the current injuries, Geno had little chance to show his cards on this topic for this team. Too many close games. Let's push the pause button until we get some guards back.
 
Good point but playing the bench more often could have had a positive impact on the starters who logged more minutes than necessary during a very long season culminating with the big tournament which is really taxing..........
I'm with you and @Javafan and @donalddoowop. I too want fresh players in the 4 quarters of games and rested players come tournament time. What coach doesn't? What I strongly disagree with is your proposed method of achieving this. If a UCONN player is good enough to positively impact the game they will find their way onto the floor. @Javafan the answer to your question as to why recruit these players to have them sit is: not all recruits pan out as expected & it is damn hard to make the rotation at UCONN. First three games of the season Geno played 8, 9, 9 players and still there were at least 3 different threads stating that Geno is struggling with substitutions. Geno is not struggling with substitutions, the bench players are struggling trying to positively impact the game.
 
Precisely! And since we don't we assume every player that transferred out or is currently sitting on the the bench was good enough to crack the rotation. Well if they were good enough to crack the rotation at UCONN they were probably monsters at their next stop right? Well... not exactly. Besides Michala Johnson and Natalie Butler did any other UCONN WCBB transfer out make an impact at the new school?
Espinoza-Hunter certainly did, and is.
 
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Espinoza-Hunter certainly did, and is.
AEH was most definitely a part of Geno's rotation prior to her departure after 7 games. Her departure from UCONN had nothing to do with lack of playing time. UCONN desperately needed a 3rd guard to be in the rotation behind Kia (team leader in MPG) and Crystal. AEH was that 3rd guard until her departure and would have continued to be into the next two seasons as well.
 
I'm with you and @Javafan and @donalddoowop. I too want fresh players in the 4 quarters of games and rested players come tournament time. What coach doesn't? What I strongly disagree with is your proposed method of achieving this. If a UCONN player is good enough to positively impact the game they will find their way onto the floor. @Javafan the answer to your question as to why recruit these players to have them sit is: not all recruits pan out as expected & it is damn hard to make the rotation at UCONN. First three games of the season Geno played 8, 9, 9 players and still there were at least 3 different threads stating that Geno is struggling with substitutions. Geno is not struggling with substitutions, the bench players are struggling trying to positively impact the game.
I think there's a middle ground............Dawn uses a good part of her bench during the game, usually bringing in one or two at a time and the rest later in the game................as far as I'm concerned force feeding a freshman that has the ability and the mental fortitude to handle it is the way to go..........I remember one of Ducharme's earliest appearances where she could barely dribble the basketball yet she managed to play through the nerves in her next few appearances to become a very important starter ..........no way that happens as quickly with the fourth quarter two minute to go experience....
 
The weakest quarter for us is the 4th, pretty obvious with limited roster we need to insert some rest wherever we can for the starters
 
I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. Not a criticism of Geno and I know right now UConn does not have a normal bench, but hopefully that will begin to get fixed in the near future. When that happens I'm of the opinion that at least a few bench players should get ~10 mpg not necessarily because they earned those minutes in practice, but to keep the players who did earn minutes in top form. Obviously there's a balancing problem here. You can't dig a deep hole for yourself playing too many bench minutes, but you can't have your best players gassed in 4Q because they played 38 to 40 minutes. This balancing act is coaching.

UConn has a 4Q problem, probably for combination of several reasons. One of those reasons is exhaustion. That can be fixed with careful management of bench minutes in the first 3 quarters.
GREAT 2 paragraphs ! !
 
Hard to change when the results of the present are positive. I think Geno has deliberately tried to establish a hard core game players group. He apparently wants that group to become so familiar with each other playing as a unit becomes automatic. That coaching style has been successful. However, in physical games where the opposing team is also very good and also has relief players with game playing experience the small unit philosophy has weaknesses mainly fatigue late in the game. The unit coaching style worked better before the WBB players market grew to todays level. There are more really good women basketball recruits available and more WBB teams with elite potential. Depth has become a real factor in the performance of todays WBB teams. Depth is more than recruiting, those highly rated players the team recruited MUS BE DEVELOPED VIA ACTUAL GAME TIME.
...." .... the small unit philosophy has weaknesses mainly fatigue late in the game. .." - - GREAT POINT !

" ... those highly rated players the team recruited MUST BE DEVELOPED VIA ACTUAL GAME TIME " -- Well put !

Fatigue late in the game has become the factor for winning or losing in today's WBB game.
 
I put forth a similar preposition, offering that I’d prefer, something like a 28-7 Record and winning the last game as opposed to 33-2 and maybe (probably) not in the name of down roster player development.
BY’ers would have none of it.
Be prepared for “incoming”:
I’d be interested in the odds to win difference between 28-7 teams vs 33-2 teams. I’m not an oddsmaker but my guess is the difference would be quite substantial! As in, 27-8 teams are a lot less likely to win than 33-2 teams! After all, there is a reason one team lost six more games!
 
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Geno is very explicit about Category 3. He has said he never had a great player that does not practice great. I suppose you can have a poor practice player that plays better in the game but Geno would view that as the player not reaching their potential to go from good to great.
Was Svetlana close to category 3 as a freshman?
 
Fatigue late in the game has become the factor for winning or losing in today's WBB game.
Fatigue late in games has been the major factor in winning and losing games since Dr. Naismith hung that first peach basket.
chris-brown-breezy.gif
 
I’d be interested in the odds to win difference between 28-7 teams vs 33-2 teams. I’m not an oddsmaker but my guess is the difference would be quite substantial! As in, 27-8 teams are a lot less likely to win than 33-2 teams! After all, there is a reason one team lost six more games!
That's brilliant. Even more brilliant might be the thought that the team that is playing the best at the end of the season prevails. Momentum, injuries to "better" team, players returning to "lesser team". Many factors. Best team season long doesn't always win. TB Bucs last year? Eli's Giants over NE? Huskies 2021-22 when cavalry arrives.................
 
I'm with you and @Javafan and @donalddoowop. I too want fresh players in the 4 quarters of games and rested players come tournament time. What coach doesn't? What I strongly disagree with is your proposed method of achieving this. If a UCONN player is good enough to positively impact the game they will find their way onto the floor. @Javafan the answer to your question as to why recruit these players to have them sit is: not all recruits pan out as expected & it is damn hard to make the rotation at UCONN. First three games of the season Geno played 8, 9, 9 players and still there were at least 3 different threads stating that Geno is struggling with substitutions. Geno is not struggling with substitutions, the bench players are struggling trying to positively impact the game.
Again, the question is not "Geno is struggling with substitutions", the question is Geno is STINGY with substitution. When he doesn't have confidence with the sub he just sub in, he doesn't have the patience to cultivate that sub, and furthermore he doesn't have the faith in the key players that he sub out to surge back in case of falling behind with the energy she regain after the well rest. ? ! As to at what point he should sub back in the key player(s), its the job of the coach.
 
I’d be interested in the odds to win difference between 28-7 teams vs 33-2 teams. I’m not an oddsmaker but my guess is the difference would be quite substantial! As in, 27-8 teams are a lot less likely to win than 33-2 teams! After all, there is a reason one team lost six more games!
Ah....maybe a team in the situation UCONN finds itself in now?
A team with no margin for error.
A team that can’t afford to foul?
A team with a 3 player bench ( 2 no goes due to coaches philosophy).
Outside shooters injured- tough non conference schedule.
A team playing for time until healthy and can play offense roster designed for.
A team that begins to peak when when close to healthy.maybe a team like that??
 
...." .... the small unit philosophy has weaknesses mainly fatigue late in the game. .." - - GREAT POINT !

" ... those highly rated players the team recruited MUST BE DEVELOPED VIA ACTUAL GAME TIME " -- Well put !

Fatigue late in the game has become the factor for winning or losing in today's WBB game.
The main weakness is when two or three fifths of your highly ranked starters turn out to be non alphas and/or you don’t have that super dominant super alpha either! The truth is, virtually all of our NC teams had a super alpha ( Dee, Maya, Stewie) and other alpha players as well who, in the immortal words of Josie Wales, got “plumb nasty” when things weren’t going well.

Everyone can speculate and argue and point fingers as much as they want, imo the reason we haven’t won a chip in five years is not because of no bench, playing time issues etc but rather because we haven’t had one of the above mentioned types of players and we have not been lucky. When you have a talented but alphaless team you need a little luck to go your way. You need a last second shot to not fall or at least one of your seniors to step up or not foul out or your back up point guard to not be injured.

Every one of those teams made it to the FF! They were capable of winning all of those games and the next one! However, unlike our (most of them, anyway) NC teams, they needed a little help. I truly believe we are going to start winning those games (hopefully) this year but certainly starting in 22 because I think we are about to see a lot more alphas on our roster!
 
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